Today Microsoft detailed the Xbox One’s used game policies, and guess what, they’re as bad as we thought. Publishers want a slice of the used game pie, but are they biting the hand that feeds by trying to impose anti-consumer restrictions?
they have been forced into an anti consumer product by publishers that were sick and tired of loosing money in my opinion. they budged. Sad.
We don't know that they've been forced to do anything. Microsoft are perfectly capable of making bad decisions all on their lonesome.
i dont know why they are holding an E3 conference cause no one would buy that thing after all this mess, no matter what games they reveal!
No but MS have been great at throwing off the blame to publishers. They haven't stated that "We build the goddamn infrastructure for this $***" they've just blamed it all on "publishers are mean".
I never understood this used game conflict for publishers. Don't they know that there's a used market for anything? Clothes, furniture, fucking toasters, EVERYTHING. If they're getting so butthurt about loosing money, they should cut down on their damn production and marketing costs, simple as that. They shouldn't punish their consumers just because they can't manage their money well. They shouldn't be getting butthurt about what WE do with OUR products that we PAID for.
@ abzdine, you can say that but with MS's marketing budget and the fact that the system is still quite attractive to the average consumer I reckon it will still sell well.
@Rusty. Clothes, furniture and toasters wear down with time eventually. However with games though it will never wear down. It will always be in its current state. The used game market problem is a unique one. If it wasn't, we would have had a solution by now.
@unchartedxplorer - Explain the sale of used CDs, DVDs, and BluRays then.
@unchartedxplorer games never get scratched or dirty? a scratched game wont sell for as much as a clean one. even though, what about used movie DVDs/BLUERAYs, music CDS, books, non electrical kitchen appliances like plates, forks etc. all those provide you with the same quality as if you were purchased them new unless they are damaged (which can happen to games disks too) there is one reason for this crap and its they want more $$$$$$$
"No but MS have been great at throwing off the blame to publishers." Wasn't it sony who was the first to said used games were up to the publishers? lol
I dont think they budged, they more so bargained a deal, and originally wanted a piece of the pie, but after the backlash they decided that charging an extra fee wasnt in their best interest so instead they threw the publishers under the bus... well the publishers were already under the bus so I guess they threw a couple of people in the bus and gave the bus driver gas money. I mean its pretty obvious with those restrictions their intentions were to have a stronghold on the used game market. @JokesOnYou The blaring differences between Sony saying its up to the publishers and when MSFT said its up to the publishers have been explained plenty of times, and im quite sure youve read it already. However if theres a chance you didnt read the difference I will try to explain in the most simplest way possible. PS4 doesnt require you to be online,therefore limiting publishers restrictions on second hand deals.So when Sony says its up to publishers they mean,it will be like this gen, where publishers can add online pass, make the game online only etc. Whereas with XBOne, you are required to be on the internet and you are required to install the game.This gives publishers ALOT more power to restrict second hand deals, so much that they can prohibit it even on games that doesnt have an online aspect. So when MSFT say its up to the Publishers they really mean its completely up to the publishers and they gave them the platform to have complete freedom. I will also add.Implementing an DRM on your game wont stop it from being pirated.Look at SimsCity, if that game didnt have those restrictions theres a chance it wouldve been less pirated.Prime example of greed leading to to an ultimate demise. Like gambling or robbing a bank.You keep going because of your greed until you lose all your money or get caught.
dmarc i have a feeling that the difference for second hand games on the ps4 will be the pass only. i cant be bothered to write a wall of text. but i think that the disc will come with a once only activation code for ps4 games. then when you sell it, in the partner only chains. you will have to pay either an extra fee in the shop for a new activation code. or you take it home, and buy the code on-line when you boot it up in your ps4 that is connected. if you sell it anywhere else, then the buyer either connects and pays, or goes to the shop and pays.. simple and, the activation fee will be the same across both platforms. either way, you still pay extra. and yes i think it is obvious that m$ are not the only platform holder with drm on their console.
@MysticStrummer Publishers of music and movies have alternative sources of revenue outside of CDs, DVDs and Blurays that they don't have to worry about the used market as much. Music can get royalty fees from radio stations and music sites such as Pandora and Spotify. Movies make tons of money from theater tickets before moving their movies to DVD and bluray. Games on the other hand don't have these alternative sources of revenue, so they get hurt a lot more from used game sales.
Publishers, Microsoft; No matter which of them forces restrictions on everyone, people will still fucking buy it.
Honestly look at what M$ is trying to do. All they do is try to be favored by publishers. They constantly keep paying for dlc and now they pay EA to make Respawn's game 360, One and pc only. All this used game crap is M$ plan to make publishers love them. It's a popularity contest. I bet Xbox One will have the better version of COD:Ghost. Watch even though ps4 is more powerful and is x86. ps4 gamers will have something so complain about. Do I think Bugs can be left in other versions do to partnerships?? Yes I do. Why would that be hard to believe?? This is America!!!
@loulou Considering activation codes to play single player games are only on some PC games now,you can still use that activation or security code on multiple PC's.But I get what you mean it is a possibility to implement something like that, a horrible possibility and with the way things are going now I wouldn't be surprised if they did implement a new form of DRM like what you mentioned, but they should expect an even bigger backlash,so in a way I wouldn't be surprised if they don't Also why do you "think it is obvious that m$ are not the only platform holder with drm on their console" ? I mean wouldnt you say the same about current gen? wouldnt it be obvious ps3 will charge for online since the 360 does?
That were brought to reveal Xbox one system to stay alright last 2 week ago. Do that wont change XBOX ONE LOL Idk cancel. u hand up to eye cry.
dmarc i honestly think that is reality. what are we going to? not alot really if we want to play games. and both know it. drm or not, i am still buying both cosoles this year. whereas m$ version will be verified on-line, i honestly think that sony have opted for the activation code version. both are part of the partner plan with publishers and large chain stores. and both will have a set fee for reactivation on another console. this is what the future holds. edit. why? because a flatout denial would have made the xbox 1 stillborn and gifted sony next gen. and they know it! one little sentence pretty much removes any threat posed. plus, any unilateral decision by microsft could quite easily have been blocked by the publishers. why? would they risk investing x millions making games for a console that will be destroyed if they go it alone on this? i dont think so. yet the talk of partner shops and stuff, speaks volumes, and tells me that this was negotiated and decided a while ago. also, the wii-us almost non-existent third party support. the excuse that the "install base is not large enough" is just rubbish. both xbox 1 and ps4 have sold ZERO consoles, yet are being supported. why? because they have drm! that is why
I've been trying to find the reasoning behind MS castrating their core gamer market the way they have been. Certainly they don't think the casuals will buy into a box to watch tv on that you have to connect the box you already watch tv on in order for it to work... Certainly they don't think that kinect is going to sell it, especially when you have TVs from LAST YEAR that do all that stuff already (see link below). The casual market isn't going to buy this stuff! http://www.youtube.com/watc... Hook that TV up to a PS4, you have the best of both worlds.
@mcroddi It's not MS it's the publishers? Did the publishers make MS charge to play games online on the XBOX & the 360 (XBL)? Did Epic make MS charge for the 1st DLC on the original Gears of War? Answer to both = NO This is MS's doing. You and other apologist can say otherwise but we, those don't live in a fantasy world, know the truth. MS paved the way for this greed in console gaming. They are the ones that designed a system to be always on. They can try to pretend all they want it's not always on with this nonsensical verification every 24 hrs. Anyone with a shred of common sense knows that means a continual connection. Who is going to literally sign in / turn on their XBOX ONE every single day? You're not. MS will check through Wifi or a hardwired connection when the unit is off. They are the ones forcing consumers to have a camera connected for the unit to work so "hopefully" their consumers will purchase crappy shovel ware games. Personally this always active camera is creepy. Especially considering the whole PRISM scandal and the fact MS has been accused of spying on people through Skype as well. Conspiracy theorist or not, why give them the opportunity? This whole multimedia device vs being a hardcore gaming console 1st and foremost is a joke. Stop pretending MS are the victims. They are the aggressors. They (MS), as the manufacturer of the hardware, are the ones that set the precedent with their design. Not vice versa. How people still defend MS with what they are doing to an industry most of us love? It simply boggles my mind.
@alphamusprime so you say games have no other way to make revenue huh? have you heard of dlc? Have you considered releasing a game digitally over a network? Publishers charge for avatars or clothes for avatars, static themes, dynamic themes, toys, clothes, partnerships with doritos, mountain dew... Do some research. How about you stop apologizing for developers and give us a reason why we should keep playing a game. Why dont they add incentive to keep a game like dlc, or allowing user mods on consoles instead of constantly trying to get over on the guy that is bored with your game a week later. There are plenty of things they can do to keep people playing a game, but they require thought and imagination.
Not only is this move by MS/EA/Activision a way of controlling the used games market, it is also aimed at raising the price of new games. People don't realize this. If you remove the attraction of buying cheaper second hand games by setting a higher price, then you leave the consumer with only one option and that is new games. Now that they have us by the balls people like Bobby Kotick know that they can lift the retail price for new games. It's like pizza hut here in Australia. They used to sell large pizzas for $8 and that was the only size they had, a new CEO comes in from the States and introduces a new medium pizza for $7, guess what happened? No one buys the medium pizza and the large is now $11.
Yep that's correct.
It's called the 360.
Rushed out the door, xbone will probably have the same problems.
Anyway doing the math I've worked out that.
77million - 7million rrod.
Other faults - 3million
Banned consoles - 2million
People angry at xbox one and not buying it.
My top end guesstimate for xboxone.
"Reports about our policies for trade in and resale are inaccurate and incomplete." -Major Nelson (05/24/13) Sounds like we pretty much nailed their policies back then. So MS doesn't profit off of used games, but publishers have the option of taking a cut. I can't wait! You just know how this is going to turn out with EA's track record, and it won't be good.
@lucidity - so well put. Microsoft has always gobbled up companies and devoured global markets, but making asinine anti-consumer policies and products is their bread and butter.
This is good news for my wallet. I'm saving money. One less console to purchase.
I have absolutely ZERO interest in the xbox brand this time around. RROD = 1billion + Buying into former ps exclusives + timed dlc = 50 million a pop Only to alienate 90% of your demographic instead of building on it = PRICELESS
When did publishers lose money? The industry has always been like this. It's greed. Getting money from you after the game has been sold. Its no longer about the DLC or expansions, no, its about screwing over consumers.
This I agree. No one is losing money. This is just an opportunity to make more money. This DRM will flop just like all inappropriate DRM have flopped. I'm sure when a lot of people realise you can't get used games for Xbox One, they will be put off buying one and MS will have to make a U-turn once more like they did with the Start Button in W8.
when gamestop started the practice of selling used copy 5 dollar less than a bring new games on launch window of that game and pushing every customers who come to their store to buy the used game over the bring new ones i.e heavy rain sold over 2mil copy and dev statistic show over 4 million player play the game. that's a real problem that said i don't support any form of DRM that restrict gamer ownership publisher just have to find a happy medium where everybody can be happy and MS new policy aren't it
@dragonyght " heavy rain sold over 2mil copy and dev statistic show over 4 million player play the game. that's a real problem " Im like 99.9% sure those are people on different profiles playing the game.Whats next,every profile is required to buy the game now?
@Dmarc Getting there. One new amazing "feature" listed for the Xbox 1 is its ability to allow up to 10 family members to play the game on their own accounts ! How wonderful and innovative.
@Dmarc "Im like 99.9% sure those are people on different profiles playing the game.Whats next,every profile is required to buy the game now?" lol you not seriously implying that every single person that play heavy rain also play in a second profile are you? cuase that would stupid. if you are than im pretty sure you never play HR. they are no initiative to play HR on second profile even if for trophies cause you can get all the ending and trohpies in single save
@dragonyght. you said heavy rain sold 2 million copies but there were 4 million people playing it? Did you mean all together or at once? Im sure you mean all together, so what youre saying is that every one that bought a copy of heavy rain (2mil) sold it and then gamestop resold it(the other 2 mil) It's more than likely (since I have my copy still) that most people were put off by the plotholes and sold their game and some bought it months later when they implemented move controls.
@ Eamon Hopefully you're right and enough customers make a stand against this new DRM. I am however worried about how many people will unknowingly buy a console - be it for their kids, as a gift for their friend, etc. Plenty of parents won't even bother to read up on the details of the Xbox One prior to making the purchase, contributing to MS' sales.
After May 21st reveal: Major Nelson: "Thank you for your feedback. We are listening closely!" June 7th policy reveal (identical to what we feared) Major Nelson: "..."
Only difference is the "We will be exploring loaning games in the future."
"they have been forced into an anti consumer product by publishers" I disagree, the publishers NEED the console makers, not the other way around. Without the successes of the Big 3, there would be no EA, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. EDIT: Actually, now that I think about it, maybe MS does need the publishers more than Sony or Nintendo. With the very few franchises that MS owns and self publishes they rely on 3rd parties more than anyone else.
Nintendo sure as hell don't rely on 3rd party too much.
The thing is.. they dont lose money. Its a delusion.
We still don't know if Bethesda want to accept MS' DRM terms! If they didn't develop for the XBONE then it'd be a huge blow! This has absolutely blown up in MS' face, how they can recover from this is beyond me, more to the point, will this be their last console? If no, then what can we expect from it's successor? Absolutely no rights at all? The XBONE has everything negative but a curfew! Wait, they'll probably announce that too.
I remember some publishers saying that if MS put DRM policy and fee on used games then they should get a part of the money, that MS should not get all of the money when a costumer get a code online to activate their used games ... So by that it means some publishers didn't know about it until MS opened up their mouth ... Microsoft should've listen to consumers in the first place, consumers are the one buying the system not the publishers, and publishers won't stop publishing games because they would lose even more money ... Microsoft is as bad as Ubisoft, Activision and EA, in fact worst since they are the one making the console...
The publishers are making millions. Especially if the game is good. The publishers want to get paid again after their game has already been purchase. Bull$h!t! That's like me selling a painting, I get paid, then the new owners sells the painting, and now I tell them they have to pay me again because I created the painting.
Exactly! It's pure BS.
Were they also forced into monetizing access to a service that is already monetized? Netflix anyone? Why the hell isn't this accessible to any Xbox Live member, not just paying members? Don't victimize Microsoft, they certainly aren't innocent of this.
And everyone is clarified they will not be getting one.
* They are going to pass it off as it's the publishers who are the bad guys....
Again playing the Victim? They are the builders and they pushed for this construct. THIS NOT WHAT WE WANT TO HEAR! Talk about not implementing this Nightmarish scenario and listening to the consumers. F this bullcrap fake vinger pointing and playing the victim. These stories are irrelevant...keep trying to confuse the gaming community instead of being straight forward and actively reversing your strategy in accordance to what the majority of customers want....not the ignorant few rich kids.
What about 24hours check!!! Is publishers also force them to do that!! Always online is the worst thing that will keep me away from (Spy you need my permission box) From X fan of Xbox
Ask Bethesda or R* if they are going out of business, great games sell buckets.
I consider myself a fairly intelligent person and yet I can't completely understand how the system works. There's so much uncertainty surrounded by vague statements (both official and unofficial) that I gave up at this point. I'll be waiting for the console to lauch, read some objective "user" reviews and THEN decide if the working principle of the console suits me.
Blame THIS ALL on vgaming piracy. They're the ones the most responsible for all this DRM syndrome happening, any of you have any idea how much x360 games are being pirated not only here in the US but world wide? It's no joke. Then again I'm kinda also part of the prob too, I reap the spoils of piracy almost on a daily basis. I enjoy my MAME Arcade collection/257+ titles on my pc like an addict.
dark days in gaming history... all this anti-consumerism and flat out wallet rape is not the way to sell anything. most gamers will not put up with it and MS may lose big this generation.
They wallet rape then rob you with something that should have been free
The only saving grace MS can rely on are the oblivious grandparents and parents who will buy the Xbox One and their games for little children.
I dont think that could save them. Grandparents and parents buying fir their offspring is a very small portion of the market.
I'm a parent and a gamer and we will not be getting a xbox one. I will by a xbox, the first one, if I see one in a garage sale cause that was a decent console.
Never heard of this website, Article is fanboyish and adds nothing that MS has clarified.
You type that down on every thread that has something bad to say about the Xbox.
Everything dude utters is damage control. E3 can't come soon enough. End all this
Yeah. He just PMed me some false info about cloud gaming, totally ignoring the link I showed him that illustrates why it's not going to happen the way MS is implying it will.
yo can you post that link about the xbox one cloud and how it wont work
you dont need to belong to a well known website to realize that what MS is doing is leading them to they own defeat.
Sooooo.... I guess you are one of the people who M$ hired to make Xbox One look good!
The author tells a story about how he traded games back on the NES when he was 5. It's the same story as my childhood. How is that fanboyish? Trading games among friends has been going on since gaming was invented and who is MS to try and ruin that long standing tradition. I think its more fanboyish to blindly support the stripping of your right to buy/rent/sell. No good will come of it. This road only leads to more abuse.
@IntheLab #3.5 "I think its more fanboyish to blindly support the stripping of your right to buy/rent/sell. No good will come of it. This road only leads to more abuse." Couldnt have said it better, exactly. Leads to more abuse, give an inch they take ANOTHER mile. Only Solution: Stick with the Principle(s) of the matter. Its WRONG, consumers are getting screwed, its WRONG dont support Next Gen, Dont Buy the Consoles!!, screw Microsoft, boycott & REBEL , simple. No doubt I am done with MS & most likely Sony as well, I think there offerings will ultimately be very similiar to what MS has stated up front there doing. maybe its time to get a WII U perhaps idk, its funny now that I think abt it LOL, Yes I had an Atari 2600 bck in the day, but when I got my 1st Nintendo, came with that little Gyro Robot, thats when my gaming hobby exploded in my heart & I was hooked forever. Back to where it all began? maybe, just maybe.
Yes, I too am from the days when games could be swapped between friends, even consoles occasionally. I had a snes, my mate a megadrive we swapped them and all our games for a month. When it was time to exchange them back for the original console both of us were sold on the quality of the games we had played for the month and both of us ended up getting new consoles that Xmas, I a mega drive and my mate got the snes. Fanboys never existed back then either, we were all just people united through our hobby, gaming. You can thank ms for bringing fanboys to the industry. @ manimal (top.80's tv show lol) if Sony have similar DRM restrictions then ill be going with a wii u for next gen too.