EuroGamer: "Last time they shipped a console that didn't work by accident. Here's one that doesn't work on purpose."
... I guess we might as well just PIRATE our games instead. At least, That's the direction MS is pushing us. If I have to choose between paying 50-60 bucks for a game I don't own, and that I can only play within certain limitations, boundaries, etc (like always online, always Kinect, not able to give away or re-sell, or whatever...) ...OR... ....I can download a cracked PC-version which I can just play and enjoy where and when and how I want, without all the crap MS is trying to shove down my throat.... ... well... you can see where I'm going with this. I'm a paying consumer who has spent many thousands of bucks on gaming this generation, but I'm not just going to swallow everything they throw at me, when I just want to enjoy my gaming without any hassles. Used to be that Console-gaming was the most releaxed and easiest way to game: You'd buy a game, you'd pop it in, and that was that. You were enjoying your game. Nowadays, you buy a game, you pop it in, you need to instal it, you have to put in codes, you need to wait for patches to download and install, you have to connect to an online server just so you can start your single-player game, etc etc. And that was still 'ok' with me. I sure as hell don't like it, but 'ok'. But now, 'always online!?', 'Always Kinect!?', 'no ownership!?'. Privacy-rights, consumer-rights, and most importantly, the fun of easy accessible gaming, ALL GONE!!! Hell no!
I will buy an Xbox One when it gets hacked in a way that I can play the games I bought legitimately offline without needing to login every 24 hours.
...before it's finally able to do what it SHOULD be doing... .... then you know it's a really terrible product, completely missing the meaning of it's own purpose. We buy consoles to play games without too much hassle and limitations. Something many of us hated about PC-gaming. Microsoft has taken console-gaming, and has made it less accessible, while taking away basic consumer-rights and possibly/probably privacy-rights. Good job, MS: You completely missed the point of what gamers want from our consoles and console-gaming in general, turning it into the complete opposite, and worse.
Well said. MS needs to learn a lesson. If these just officially confirmed MS practices were to gain ground then console gaming as we know it is finished. I cannot believe anybody would block used games or defend it. Second hand and used market exists in every industry and business sector. Just imagine if we were not able to buy a used car, furniture, house, electronics or anything else. The concept of blocking used gaming is outrageous. The same logic of maximizing developer/manufacturer revenue can be applied to any industry. Just imagine what kind of world we would be living in if the same was applied to all other industries. Immanuel Kant, a philosopher, came up with a basic principle to judge an act to be permissible or not. He said just assume that the proposed act/practice is made universal and think what would happen. If everything is fine, nobody is hurt and the system continues to work properly then it is permissible and if not then it is unethical. As such blocking used products or charging for them is not acceptable in any way.
Well said guys. I for one will be voting with my wallet. I wont stand for these restriction. As far as MS setting a precedent that Sony might have to follow suit? I think sales of the X1 vs the PS4 will dictate the direction of these ludicrous restrictions. If there is more consumer support for the PS4 over the X1. MS will most likely have to revert back to the same policies we gamers are accustomed to or they will remain an also ran in the industry. Personally I have a strong feeling the next generation wont even be close. Consumers aren't as stupid as MS is counting on them being. If this ends up eventually being implemented across the board (Sony and Nintendo as well)? I will find a new hobby. I prefer to own what I purchase and how I purchase it should remain up to the consumer, period.
What I'm afraid of is MS setting a precedent for Sony to follow suit. I just really hope Sony can hold their own regarding this and don't buckle under the pressure (of which there might be a lot of, from retailers and publishers).
Why do people say that when it's been made clear about it being otherwise since february? http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
I dont see why they would do that when they can benefit from this.
Well, there are still some uncertainties IIRC. Registering a game online for example: "any requirement for users to register a game online in order to play it would be left to game publishers. Sony won't require that." It's out of Sony's hands really and that's what concerns me. What incentive is there for publishers not to do this?
Instead of asking "will Sony end up doing this?" what we need to ask first is "CAN Sony do this?" Is the PS4 even capable of supporting a system-wide DRM? I don't think it can. It can be played offline (meaning sneaky people can play used games offline). That's really all there is to it. And you give publishers too much credit. Instead of thinking "Oh, MS is doing so everyone else must be doing it too", you should instead be asking "why would Microsoft do this?" Perhaps for exclusives or timed-exclusive DLC? Perhaps for an...unprecedented partership? I'll let you fit the puzzle-pieces together on this one.
It might not be any time soon, but this is the same thing that bothers me. If I could know that this wouldn't get beyond the XBOne, I wouldn't give a damn. I'd miss out on some good games, but I'd live. But there's the chance that, if it's successful enough, Sony and Nintendo may even be FORCED to follow suit to compete. And I don't want that. Naturally, it'd be best if NONE of the consoles had any of this crap, but it seems like 2 outta 3 is the best we're gonna get. But if PS4 starts losing large amounts of publisher support because it doesn't have the DRM that the XBO has, they wouldn't have much choice but to implement it or bow out. That's not something I want. So, MikeMyers, is that clear enough for you? Is the fact that I'm not even the only person stating this clear enough? You keep stalking me around the site, asking why I care: Cuz I don't want to see gaming ruined by stupidity and greed, and letting it take hold on one console is too dangerous, since there's no guarantee it won't spread to the others. Can you stop being an immature child now?
@dedicated Well I'm not the only one with these concerns. http://uk.ign.com/articles/...
@ Septic I'm not trying to dismiss your concerns or any (legitimate) concerns out there. I only propose the crazy idea that we use our brains before getting worried. We have information currently available about the PS4, and one thing we know is that the system will never ever once ever at all require the system to be online. Sony has confirmed this on numerous occasions over the past few months. Without an internet requirement, how can pS4 enforce a used-game restriction, a game lockout, or any of the stuff on Xbox One? I'm genuinely curious. How could PS4 implement that? Can they? Without a required internet connection, how will the PS4 be able to enforce the same level of DRM? Please. I've been wanting to hear an answer to this from the "Sony will probably do the same thing" camp for the last two weeks.
Hicken No disrespect but I think MikeMyers is a shill. When somebody relentlessly defends fudge packing I have give them side eye. The bigger picture for people like mike sides with the sellers and money makers, seldomly us, the gamer. Whats best for them, what keeps their jobs, their sustainability etc. I personally can't trust people like that as they're quick to call out the other extremists whilst grouping those with genuine concerns in the same category.... I guarantee there are employees or people paid by our console makers on sites like n4g working their magic. Some are just more blatant than others in my honest opinion
@dedicated "Without a required internet connection, how will the PS4 be able to enforce the same level of DRM? " I never suggested that Sony will have the same level of DRM- its just that, with MS going so far in its implemetation of its restrictions, we could have similar used game restrictions etc driven by publishers. Remember, publishers would most likely welcome these restrictions (and some have been quite vocal about it). An online pass this generation, was almost like a used game restriction anyway, essentially locking off the online content for games. Now, with MS taking such a strong stance on this, we could see things like become the norm. The system itself doesn't have to have features to help facilitate these practices.
I share your concer, but at the same time I wonder if money is the only reason that EA suddenly is qa big Xbone supporter when they have been more leaning towards PS3 previously.
Do you see how many shill type apologist are here on n4g basically saying dying in your sleep isn't as bad as getting your head decapitated so everybody should be happy....you're still dead. The semi clarification isnt as bad as 1st thought but it is still bad. Too many ***king sheep, just willing to accept the fudge packing with a smile. I remember your anti anti consumer stance yi long, from you disapproval of pre canned dlc amongst other things....you must be vex at the direction we're heading. Sony can take a run and jump too if they think this is the way but I have a sneaking suspicion they won't be so ignorant to what gamers feel. MS is siding way to much on the side of the providers instead of the served.
Something a lot of people are overlooking: Gamestop is certainly going to be one of the retailers who can buy/sell used games. In other words, Microsoft, EA, and the others who SWOOOOORE that used games were the downfall of the game industry are actually just partnering with the biggest used-game-retailer store while also knocking out their competition (any store that isn't also registered to buy/sell used X1 games). This is just so evil, I'm laughing! We were told used games are evil. We were told used games were killing the industry. We were told that this DRM stuff was meant to "save" the industry. And what do they do? They partner with Gamestop (and I'm assuming a few other big-name stores) and kill Gamestops small-time competitors. BRILLIANT! Do you know what that means? It means used games were never the enemy. The enemy is YOU! You, gamers, you who desire to have control over your game library. YOU are the enemy. I totally called it two days ago: http://n4g.com/news/1271629... Gamers are killing gaming! We're too entitled! We have too much freedom over our games!
The sensationalist nature of your post aside, you do make good points. With only a few retailers being 'authorised' to buy used games, you're going to get awful trade-in rates because of the lack of competition. Bad times indeed.
Why is it sensationalist? We've been hearing the same line for months/years: used games are evil. Used games are killing the industry. And yet, MS decides to partner with the biggest used-game retailers (Gamestop, Best Buy, etc) and in the process remove our personal right to buy/trade/sell our games how we please.
Microsoft is like my dad and probably most people's dads who try to be "mechanics". They both try to fix things, but instead causing more trouble than it originally was. Yeah, sure, piracy is STILL a huge problem, not just in the gaming industry, but in every form of media as well. However, by adding unnecessary "features" like DRM, you're not actually screwing over the honest consumers, those who pay full priced with their hard earned money. Do they really think DRM is benefiting anybody? Look at Sim City. Did having DRM benefit ANYONE AT ALL? Nope, it made it a playable mess, and certified EA as "the worst company". Sometimes, people just want to turn off their social medias and just play a single player in peace. DRM is just causing people to do what it was meant to do: Pirate even more games.
yeah lets all support mod xbone if some dude ever hack this sh!t ill go buy xbone i rather have jack sparrow spy on me instead of bill gates
thats intense! Dang simetimes I hate being right all the time about how bad M$ is. Thr Colonel Miles Quartich of gaming. Its gives great quality to my most flagged down one bubble. Ahhh! This reminds me exactly what M$ did to Windows PC gaming and its problem of piracy.....MS did nothing for decades now to help the developers and publishers fight piracy. While Sony successfuly defended the PS3 from mass market piracy. Much more the PS4. The problem with M$ is that they dont have the will.
I see your point of view on this. Although there is another option, it's two-fold. You can continue saving that money you've tucked away and use it on the one console that's next gen. http://facebook.com/YourPla... At the same time you will be helping to support an outcry of gamers that are royally pissed that M$ has shown their true colors, Green $$$$$ Green $$$$$. http://facebook.com/YourPla...
RIP Xbox. Was good while it lasted. :(
They Xbox One can be buried next to my 5 RRoD 360's. Ironically however, my Xbox (Original Xbox, not One, although 1) is still going strong.
Gaming is evolving the way of pc and the likes of steam its pirates that have caused this crap in the first place
The only piracy going on here is from onboard the ' SS Microsoft'. Piracy has declined massively over the last gen. If Microsoft believe you are only the custodian of the games you buy, not the owner, does that mean they give you a refund when you sell their game? Are they just the custodians of that money you spent? Hell no! Microsoft basically want to sell the same product over and over again ad infinitum. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PIRACY, IT IS ABSOLUTELY ABOUT CORPORATE GREED!
This will cause more piracy in my book. People will mod the one to play copies with aquickness.
the sad thing is the fanboys still defend MS and it will sell well, hopefully though enough people realise that sony care about gamers more and they will invest with them
it will sell , a lot of uninformed ppl will get one at launch then give it 24hours and returns will flood the game shops i can bet you. Most game shops wont tell ppl all the problems like 24h checks and 1 hour checks and no rentals ever and no trading, because they just want the sales they dont care what happens after they get the money.
You're right the fanboys will defend it, lucky we don't get many people defending it here on N4G, but on other sites the fanboyism is through the roof. It really is annoying when people get emotionally attached to consoles or companies so they buy whatever crap they put out, and blindly hate on the competition.
your right. that's always the harsh reality with fanboys. Too damn blind to see the forest for the trees. This might illustrate my point. http://i.minus.com/iBzvb2JS... source- http://facebook.com/yourpla...
Sorta surprised to see major gaming news sites actually taking a firm stance on some of these issues. Normally they are pussy-footy.
Nice too see a big gaming site supporting our rights.
It's good cause the more people read it, the more people are aware of these problems, more gaming websites should have articles like these.
Sony should just sit back and watch the sh!t fly lmao M$ are going to have a giant struggle on their hands this gen a giant massive donkey kong balls massive giant problem.
I agree Sony have an big opportunity to win big next gen.
I could reach back for years on telling Xbox fans,gamers in general, to be better consumers.that first horse armor,all that dlc that could have fit on one bluray disc...you name it.... We told you guys again and again about Microsoft fooling you and trying to pass themselves as a gaming company.we warned you. Told you to not pay for live,not to accept rrod,not to accept $100 dollar WiFi adapters..again and again..but but halo...but but forza... It is your fault that these policies are taking place.too ignorant to stand up to these companies with you wallets. I have purposely stopped buying from EA,capcom,etc who have tried to screw gamers wallets.I don't care how fun some of their games are. You need to think about how they are playing the GAME and how to best them and not just be BOTS...we told you this sh... Would happen.they will keep asking for more and screw over gamers..I could reach back and pull links on what we said but f... It.you guys may have screwed us all if Sony follows suit.or third parties try to force Sony's hand...we told you...
Well said Apocalypse Shadow, paying for online and the rest was just asking for more, like you I would never support any company that put restrictions on my gaming in any way EA and the rest never saw a penny from me, if only every consumer was that smart no way would this be happening, I hope gamers come together on this and send a clear message that we will never accept this..
I went this whole gen without ever owning a 360 because of all that you said above. Sure, I know i missed out on some exclusives that i was wanted to play, but I stuck to my guns and voted with my wallet. The old saying "Give them an inch and they will take a mile" rings very true in this case
This. I have a new found seething hate for xbox fanboys that defend this. You may think that is extreme, but I argue no. Because said fanboys continue to bend over and smile for MS, these policies can potentially infect sony's console. In fact, Sony has already stated it will be up to the publisher. I blame the greed of corporations, but I also blame xbox fanboys for accepting all MS's crap this generation. MS apologists are the absolute worst fanboys ever.
I'll just leave this here for Greenpowerz/POG/Why Dis etc etc He'll show up soon enough. http://www.cinemablend.com/...
Oh man, why dis? That guy was too much lolz !
Greepowerz IZ Why Dis....he's had nearly 20 accounts since N4G started. He's best remembered as Power Of Green. They all got shut down. He's had this Greenpowerz one for a while now.
I cant wait to see how this ends when released at retail. One thing I have noticed is that there's like 160m ish consoles PS3/360's. yet we are getting game's that sell about 5m copy's, and only just break even. That's maybe 4% of the market if am right. Anyway, this is not a fight against piracy but Pre owned sales, just think of another 3% more retail copy's sold because of this DRM, that's a massive boost in profit for Publisher's. It just seams like a lot of work for MS to keep this in check at a console level and only benefiting from retail sales, they must be increasing licencing fee's to help compensate for running this level of DRM anyway.
If this console sells well, I will lose all the faith in humanity that I have left.
You seem to not realize that most people aren't that intelligent. The general public at large buys their products without doing any real research. How else do you explain morons still purchasing 80 dollar HDMI cables at BestBuy when the same quality cable can be had online for 6-8 dollars? Morons will lay down their money for this console because they have no discernment. Gamers who know better won't touch this steaming pile of dog shit. Sony better not drop the ball at E3 and be anywhere near this shit Microsoft is trying to force down our throats. If so, console gaming for this next generation is dead to me. I will be done with it entirely.
That is my big worry too. Although in my country, even the mainstream press has already written about the privacy concerns with the Xbone. Before this thing launches, I hope gamers will make some kind of campaign to warn those customers. The consequences for gaming would be terrible if this thing succeeds.
I think the good question here to think about is how long will it be for someone to reverse engineer this hardware to modify the so called statements " It needs to be checked every 24 hours and the kinect always has to be connected" so that it can work without all those things being needed. Then MS will completely look stupid just like EA did with one of the guys simply switching some stuff on their code
Sounds like MS is gonna force the gaming industry to change which does not sound good.
Microsoft forced online fees and advertisements and expected gamers to smile, the people to blame here is the fanboys who gobbled their sh!t up in the past, because Microsoft now thinks they can force this DRM on people and get away with it, the same fanboys will eat it up and let Microsoft ram them up the ass,
What is scary Microsoft could force you to buy an Xbox 1. You may not really buy one but they could control the 360 in the same way. All they have to do is patch a mandatory download that would kill the game play or discs. I know that that wouldn't kill the disc for used game selling but they could also kill the on demand games and arcade games too. Will they do that? why not look how they are moving with xbox 1. Sony will be no better. I'm still glad I have a wiiu and it may be the dark horse in this whole deal. If graphics really mattered that much mine craft would of bombed. On the other hand anyone that has played the wiiu cant say it doesn't hold up. play super Mario wiiu and it will challenge any hardcore gamer. And it is cool that I'm in my bed playing on the game pad and the wiiu is in the front room and everyone is still able to watch tv. No Ms and Sony not this time. I'll keep my 2 360's hope they don't patch kill it, keep my ps3, and play free on my wiiu that plays wii games. now waiting for some 3ds games like animal crossing on sunday
As of this moment, I'm going to purchase a PS4. If Sony turns out to be on board with any of this crap Microsoft is peddling, I will quit console gaming entirely. It will not please me to do so, but I will not be some corporate giant's bitch either. I will not be told what I can and cannot do with hardware and software I spent MY MONEY ON! Fuck off, Microsoft.
Right now future Microsoft consoles are dead to me. I'm not interested in all this crap.
This is happening. And if MS fails. It will happen the other ways in which it's already happening. The industry has been using the how-to-boil-a-frog method to slowly take away game ownership for a while now. Only way to stop it is to organize a boycott. Make a stink, creat a ton of bad publicity for those pushing this [email protected]$. In the world of Android gaming where my magazine resides, most of the money is made by way of freemium crap apps. I doubt it will go down the same way in mainstream gaming but I don't it will go down. To staunch the bleeding, to make it stop, to push the industry towards creating viable alternatives gamers need to organize and draw a line in the sand.
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