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Xbox One's DRM Gets Attacked By Neogaf, GOG.com Offers Support

Gaming Blend "The official Phase II campaign for #NoDRM is now underway at Neogaf. The industry forum board has rallied together, built up two websites and are now taking it full fledged Road Warrior to the Xbox One's DRM...a last ditch effort before Microsoft gives the full policy rundown at E3 on June 10th."

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wishingW3L1655d ago

nothing stops this train. And when I say "train" I mean the DRM that MS will include by default on the console.

whoyouwit041655d ago

Nothing sops microsoft train, but you think you all manage to stop Sony's. I can't wait to see you fan boys responses when sony reveals their DRM plans.

DJMarty1655d ago

Sony have already said it's up to Publishers, they not forcing it on anyone, it's an option.

Soldierone1655d ago

Sony already stated it doesn't have always online, so that hurdle is gone. Then they also mentioned it was up to developers.

So thats a much easier battle to win. If a developer includes DRM, don't buy the game. Much easier to pass up a title that will be forgotten in a month than it is a whole console.

1655d ago
showtimefolks1655d ago

whoyouwit04

you are nothing more than another idiot fanboy of xbox. do you think its us saying we don't want DRM because we hate Xbox? its because we know what DRM will mean and MS is leading the pack

them and EA are now swo close friends when for past 3 gens EA has been with sony why because MS/EA want DRM, that's why EA killed the online passes

open your damn eyes its not about hating on another console or being fanboys, its raising our voices/concerns for what we believe in

you like xbox one with DRM great for you but most of us don't and if that makes us fanboys in your eyes than so be it

Mr_Nuts1655d ago

@SMGP

Leaving it up to the publishers does deflect the blame but at the same time Sony is basicaly trying to make us target them instead so publishers won't force it on Sony, they are doing in such a smart way so instead of forcing it on us and on the console they are kind of making us target publishers instead so they WON'T do it and WON'T force Sony to do DRM stuff on their console. Look at EA, they would of put it in the Sims 4 if they never got the Sim City backlash.

Basicaly if gamers complain at EA for example they'll get scared that it will hurt sales like the Sim City fiasco and will not do DRM in the future (this however is up to us to complain) if were successfull EA will tell Microsoft they don't want to do it and put pressure on them, but since Microsoft is forcing it they will later support Sony more with their games because on the PS4 it will be a choice, thus Sony's clever little plan working out for them. Either way this whole thing goes, if we win/loose Sony has themselfs covered. In my opinion I feel like they want us to complain, they responded well with the Twitter campaign for starters.

Cirehpsa1655d ago

@SMGP DRM is an option that can be used on current hardware, it can be done on any console that allows games to connect to the internet.

Sony is not shifting the blame, they did not code it into their software as an option, it's up to the game developer to code it themselves.

DRM is even possible on consoles that don't connect to the internet, there to prevent people from playing games they aren't aloud to like fake copies.

Nathaniel_Drake1655d ago

@SMGP Actually this is the best Sony can do if they don't implement some kind of choice they will lose a lot of business from third party software. They had no choice they chose the best option in this situation, MS chose the worst.

MasterCornholio1654d ago

Sony already mentioned that all games can be played without an internet connection including used games.

Which is much better than Microsofts online DRM which obligates you to connect to XBOX Live once every 24 hours otherwise you wont be able to play any of your games.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1654d ago
dedicatedtogamers1655d ago

Xbone's Wild Ride Never Ends.

lucaskeller11655d ago

Proof their reveal was fake, the UI is laggy!

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Mr_Nuts1655d ago (Edited 1655d ago )

They're heading right for a train wreck

I'm sure someone said in another article that trusted sources on Neogaf said Microsoft is taking the reaction to the reveal hard, so much that they are going to try and tarnish the PS4's "for gamers" theme.

EDIT: It was GribbleGrunger

http://n4g.com/news/1272685...

This is pretty alarming in my opinion, people should take notice. Instead of fixing the Xbox One they'd rather buy their way out of this the dirty way

"Two of our most trusted neoGAF insiders have said that Microsoft is reacting hard to what has went down, and so they're going to try to dismantle PS4's image as a "for gamers" console by paying publishers and devs to not show their multiplatform titles during E3 on a PS4. In other words, even if the multiplatform version is coming out for the PS4, they won't be able to show them at E3, thus contributing to the perception that somehow Sony is getting significantly less support for PS4 than Microsoft is "for gamers."

dedicatedtogamers1655d ago

Yeah I remember reading that on Gaf. Terrifying, if true, but it is completely in line with Microsoft's behavior in the gaming market and in other markets.

I can't count the number of times I saw a TV commercial for a multiplatform game with nothing but the Xbox swirl at the end.

Dee_911655d ago

Wow.If thats true theres no more room left for nails in their coffin.Im so over MS&XBOne.Forza it was nice knowing you all these years, I would really love to play 5 but these asshats are making me pass on it.

kenshiro1001654d ago

You're kidding.
That's disgusting if true.

LeRise1654d ago (Edited 1654d ago )

Oh dear.
I really hope this blows the news if it's true. E3 is the only way to find out.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1654d ago
yeahokchief1654d ago

With all of the news about the US Government monitoring our phone records secretly, I wish the best of luck to all of you who choose to game with an always on Kinect 2.0. Have fun with that. Hope it works out for you... being spied on and everything.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1654d ago
a_bro1655d ago (Edited 1655d ago )

this is the music i listen to when i work out at gym XD

DragonKnight1655d ago

I want the Xbox One supporters to tell CD Projekt Red that they are wrong. They've always been on the side of No DRM as they know that it doesn't work. So you pro-Xbone defenders, and publisher apologists, here's a developer that doesn't want DRM on their games, doesn't use it, and isn't trying to force gamers to give up their rights. Explain to them how they are wrong and Microsoft is right. Go on, I dare you.

MikeMyers1655d ago

GOG has all older titles. Why are games on Xbox Live and Playstation Network not DRM free? Why are Nintendo, Sony, Steam and Microsoft right and GOG wrong?

GOG has always been about no DRM. They have their userbase, as does Steam, Xbox Live, Playstation Network and Nintendo Network. Out of all of those only GOG offers DRM free games.

You sound like an extremest, "you're either with us or against us."

DragonKnight1655d ago

You sound like an extremest, "you're either with us or against us."

Better to sound like an extremist who actually likes to have a choice than an apologist that will give everything up in the name of convenience.

Software_Lover1655d ago (Edited 1655d ago )

I have a question, and its a very serious question. I want honesty, even though I know I'm not gonna get it.

Do people oppose DRM simply because of the price of games, or the principle? I really want to know. If games were 10.00 would they complain as loud?

I only want to know because the PC has had DRM for years, YEARS, and we dont have a public outcry at all. Hell, steam is just a DRM operating system at it's core but people praise it, myself included.

So what's the deal. Price? Principle?

I'm not condoning or accepting of what Microsoft is supposedly rumored to be doing, I just want to know WTF is up all of a sudden.

cyguration1655d ago

Price + Principle.

I can only speak for myself but I hate PC DRM. Steam is a tolerable compromise not a bastion of great times ahead.

Even still, every Steam player still worries about the day Gaben dies and someone else takes over: Will our games be safe? Is always the big question.

The upside to PC DRM is that your games are always backward compatible. You can get a new PC and play new games and still play your old games one way or another.

With the Xbox One you don't have a choice. You won't have a historical collection and given that there is no competition to Microsoft's digital store, it's unlikely they will lower prices because they won't have a reason to (there's no other place to buy digital Xbox games other than from Microsoft).

The Xbox One has all the vices of a PC but NONE of the advantages. It's a closed system with no backward compatibility and no historical value (once the servers go down that's it for the XB1 and your entire game collection).

I don't like DRM of any kind but the XB1's DRM is the worst of all kind. I don't like my games being held hostage at the whim of a fickle, money-hungry corporation.

Software_Lover1655d ago

Nice answer. My question to you is this.....

Do you really think most of the kids commenting have thought about it that deep?

KillrateOmega1655d ago

Yup. You're totally getting a +Well Said from me :)

@Software_Lover

Maybe not all of them, but I have. I imagine that there are a fair amount who are anti-DRM simply because it's popular right now. Sorry, Sony bros, but it's likely true.

Dee_911655d ago (Edited 1655d ago )

@Software_Lover
Theres more than one form of DRM and this type of DRM isnt on any PC game I currently own.All or most PC games come with security codes,you can use that security code on how ever many other PC's you want ( Not sure about Steam or other digitally downloaded games and it isnt a mandatory thing).And its not all of a sudden,people saw this coming since the big rush of DLC back years ago.How ever back then it was just horrible scenario that was possible and we thought that publishers wouldnt take this route... EA did and you saw the backlash with simscity.Now a CONSOLE is trying to do it... do you really expect people to just accept this crap after the simcity fiasco?
And yea its principle.I dont care if a game was $5.I want to actually own my game, not have a 50/25/25 deal with the publishers and MS.

DragonKnight1655d ago

Principle. The idea that you have restrictions on selling what you bought and paid for is incredibly wrong.

PC has had DRM for years because the PC has 2 problems. 1. It has for more casuals than any console. People who don't even know what DRM means. 2. Those that do know what it means, stopped caring once sales popped up. They decided to throw away their rights for some savings.

The PC crowd cared about convenience first and it cost them. They've simply grown accustomed to giving things up for more convenience and some sales. Unless you try to shoehorn always online DRM in and then for some reason they erupt. Which, when companies like EA figure out they can get away with that if they make the game cheaper, will quickly end on the PC side.

Software_Lover1655d ago

The word "Casual" was really coined this gen. You either played games or you didn't. There was no casual/hardcore nonsense. Those are media coined terms. But I understand what you're talking about.

While steam is DRM, it isn't always online DRM. You can go offline and play your single player games, I think it is appreciated in that sense.

Yes we do get vocal when Companies like Ubisoft/EA try to spring in some extra DRM always online bullcrap on us. Most of us PC gamers are far from stupid. We build our own, take care of our own, upgrade our own, etc etc.

We could go on and on, but I was just curious.

Thanks for the response.

DragonKnight1655d ago

"The word "Casual" was really coined this gen."

Maybe, but they have existed since before this gen. They are the Farmville players, the Facebook gamers, the "ooh a new SimCity" people. They don't care about things like DRM and don't even know what it means. Faced with that level of ignorance, any manner of prohibitive moves can be allowed to pass.

"While steam is DRM, it isn't always online DRM. You can go offline and play your single player games, I think it is appreciated in that sense."

But it has the same "check in" system that Microsoft has for the Xbox One, only not every 24 hours. Enough people have had problems with that already and it's being explained as "necessary to check for updates" but only naive people actually believe that.

"Yes we do get vocal when Companies like Ubisoft/EA try to spring in some extra DRM always online bullcrap on us. Most of us PC gamers are far from stupid. We build our own, take care of our own, upgrade our own, etc etc."

Yeah, but why accept some forms of DRM and not others? DRM is DRM. It's bad for everyone except for publishers. I don't get paid to play games, so I don't appreciate being told what I can and can't do with games I don't want anymore.

"We could go on and on, but I was just curious.

Thanks for the response."

Indeed. And you're welcome. Thanks for the conversation.

MikeMyers1655d ago (Edited 1655d ago )

The reason why you can play offline on Steam is because you don't have a physical medium. It is still tied to your account and still needs to be authenticated in the beginning. What Microsoft is apparently doing is treating the physical medium like Steam does with digital goods and apparently it needs to verify the game which is why it needs a connection. It also alleviates all that data to be downloaded which may be an issue for many with data caps. I am saying apparently because there are no hard facts yet and it is all software based that can change at any time.

The Xbox One will also allow some form of used games, again we don't know the finer details.

DRM was used on the PC because piracy played such a huge role. Why do you think Sony tried coming out with the PSP Go? The PSP was also prone to piracy and low and behold software support soon dried up.

There has to be a compromise and some people are unwilling to and think only from a consumers point of view. This is a business, not charity. If they feel used games are hurting them they will try and curb it, same with piracy. All those people who say used games don't matter or piracy doesn't matter don't know. Each publisher has their own internal data to go by. It's also very different when you view GOG games that are on average $5-$10 as opposed to $60 games. So of course each used game and each pirated copy could add up in potential sales.

I also have to laugh at anyone who generalizes saying only Farmville gamers don't know what DRM is. Diablo III sold over 10 million copies, I imagine all of them know exactly what DRM is and how people will accept it if they think the game is worth it. Just like those who buy ios games, they too know those games are restricted to that device. DRM has to compete just like non DRM games.

1655d ago
MikeMyers1655d ago (Edited 1655d ago )

http://www.gamesthirst.com/...

David Jaffe responds.

NeoGAF user unbias:
"Because the 2nd hand market isn’t a simple “Person A sells X, Person B buys X”. It is fine(technically/morally) to want the money from used games, however to assume getting money from used games will actually increase a publisher/developers bottom line is guess work. The only thing we do know is the 2nd hand market increases disposable income. Lessen the disposable income and you have a good chance of lowering game demand as a whole."

David Jaffe’s Response:
"Fine- but let them take that risk is all I’m saying. I guess for me all the complaining is pointless: don’t like it, don’t buy it and if enuff agree, the idea tanks and the industry learns. Super super simple."

See, simple. Don't buy a system that supports DRM and/or don't buy games that have DRM. Simple.

Super Simple.

Instead we have fear-mongers attacking anyone who doesn't have an issue with it. Acting like they speak on behalf of everyone while also thinking they know how to run the industry.

@DragonKnight,
"Better to sound like an extremist who actually likes to have a choice than an apologist that will give everything up in the name of convenience."

As David Jaffe says, you do have a choice, don't buy the Xbone then.

See, Super Super Simple. Make your own choices.

ShwankyShpanky1655d ago

@SMGP

Thing is, that EULA runs right up against the First Sale Doctrine. It's unenforceable.

You could put out an EULA saying "By reading this EULA you hereby grant Activision all rights to any and all future income you may receive now or in the future from any source." Doesn't mean it's legal or enforceable.

DragonKnight1655d ago

@SMGP: Your copy pasta is great and all, problem is that that only works for digital goods and is still illegal. First sale doctrine overrides EULA. You buy a game, you have the right to sell it if you don't want it anymore. When's the last time you heard of an EULA being successfully enforced in a court of law over a right of higher priority? The difference is when you try to sell the software as a legitimate retailer when you haven't been granted the rights to do so.

@MikeMyers: Your whole comment is irrelevant. People who don't like the Xbox One's DRM aren't going to buy it, but that doesn't mean that it ends there. The precedent must not be allowed to pass due to lack of involvement in speaking out against it. Core gamers are outnumbered by the casual masses that buy games like SimCity, and the shortsighted that bought Diablo 3. As long as the number of people who don't care about DRM because they are ignorant or lack self-control outnumbers those who actually know that DRM is a problem, then simply "not buying it" won't fix anything.

David Jaffe is simply speaking as a shill. Of course he'd have no problem with DRM, he makes mobile games filled with them.

You see, what you're failing to realize is that the stance of "I don't have a problem with it" can easily have an impact on those that DO have a problem with it. And then of course you'll say "well then don't buy it" but then, what happens when that attitude leads to the precedent that makes everyone include such anti-consumer DRM? The choices left are to suck it up and give up your rights, or stop gaming altogether. Neither option is right. Morally, ethically, it's not right.

MrBeatdown1655d ago (Edited 1655d ago )

@MikeMyers

"There has to be a compromise and some people are unwilling to and think only from a consumers point of view. "

We pay up to $60 for a game. Sometimes up to $150 for a collector's edition. We buy DLC. We buy online passes. And on Xbox, we even pay a yearly fee to use features of the games we already paid full price for. Hell, we've even given up freakin' instruction manuals.

And yet we need to compromise? Is all that we already pay not enough?

Why is it that it's the consumers that have to give up even more?

Why do we get stuck being the ones to compromise, while Microsoft is more than happy to give stores like GameStop exclusive pre-order bonuses, to get us to buy our game at the very store that will constantly ask us to trade in games to pay for it? Why is it that Microsoft charges the maximum amount for it's digital downloads? Why does MS ask us to pay $40 for a disc-less, DRM'd, un-sell-able digital download of Halo 4, that Microsoft doesn't have to pay to manufacture and distribute, and gets 100% of the profit from, while Amazon is able to sell the very same game, on disc, without DRM, for only $28?

Why can't Microsoft compromise? Why can't they give us a reason to buy the version we can't trade in?

Why can't they offer a $30 30-day rental to appeal to those who just buy and trade-in their games for half the value they paid in store credit, therefore cutting down on the number of used copies floating around? Why can't they stop giving us incentive to shop at the retail chains that are the number one source of their problems? Why can't they price their DRM'd digital copies to actually be competitive?

Because they don't want to. They want to squeeze every dollar they can out of us. They make money, and now they just want more, so they find an easy way to take even more, instead of actually solving the so-called "problems" that supposedly got us to this point without stomping out our basic ability to play a a game from a disc without an online check-in. And MS isn't even providing this as an opt-in solution to publishers that think used games are a problem. It's required, even of those publishers who don't think it's an issue. Why? More money in licensing fees for poor, financially-starved Microsoft.

You have to be blind to think customers aren't already giving Microsoft enough, and that dumping some awful DRM scheme on us, on top of what we already pay, and the crap we already put up with, is the only solution to their "problem".

Imalwaysright1655d ago (Edited 1655d ago )

@ SMGP Here in Europe we can even sell our digital games.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012...

From article:

"Buying and reselling any form of digital software is perfectly legal, the Court of Justice of the European Union has ruled. Software authors – or in the gaming world, publishers – can not stop customers from reselling their games, even if the publisher attaches an End User License Agreement prohibiting resale.

"The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale," the court has found."

Lets see MS trying to control what is ours here in the EU.

edit @ MrBeatdown well said.

@ mike What more compromising do you want us to do? Dont we put up with enough already?

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 1655d ago
Kenshin_BATT0USAI1655d ago

For me, it's principle. I frankly don't see a need for it. DRM existed originally due to piraters. Not used game sales. That being said, I would have NEVER played a lot of the games I played this gen if it weren't for used games, it gave me an interest in companies that normally I probably wouldn't care about.

I'm sure some people would argue steam already does this, but there is a HUGE difference. And that is simply sales. There are a huge amount of games on sale all the time. And I'm not talking $10 off. We're talking 90% off. If those kinds of sales can't be supported this DRM thing is going to fall flat on it's face.

Imalwaysright1655d ago (Edited 1655d ago )

I like having the freedom to do whathever the hell I want with the things I buy with my money.

cyguration1655d ago

"Do you really think most of the kids commenting have thought about it that deep?"

That's a good question in itself because the whole rage started over the things I brought up in my post. NeoGaf, Angry Joe and a few other pro-consumer places were bringing out all these really good points about value, gaming history and consumer rights.

I know there are a lot of fanboys who probably have zero clue about WHY there's a lot of internet rage against Xboned, but I think most of the people in charge of the no-DRM movements are trying to make those points clear: it's not just about the game selection anymore.

yesmynameissumo1655d ago

Principle of it all. Prices plays a role too, but ultimately, it's the priciple. Why is this needed? Piracy? They piracy that's existed since the industry began, that piracy? Or not getting to double dip when it come to used games? Should ANY company be paid twice for selling their product once? Not in my eyes. If any of this were directed at Sony, I'd feel the same way. X1 could have been a fresh slate for gamers like myself, so jaded from the 360 failing every time I tried to use it, I will never buy a 360.Now all this fee and linked to account nonsense solidifies my never buying a Microsoft "console" again.

xDHAV0K24x1655d ago

Xbox 360 is one of the most successful consoles ever at 8 yrs and counting. Theres no disputing that.

Hicken1654d ago

@Havok: That's irrelevant.

Well, it IS relevant, actually, but probably not in the way you mean.

See, a lot of people thought there were serious issues with the 360- such as the RROD- that Microsoft addressed too late, didn't address properly, or failed to address at all. Yet, as you say, the 360 has enjoyed a healthy amount of commercial success. The core game support has dwindled over the past few years, but it's stopped nobody from buying the thing. Live Gold hasn't improved a whole lot, but it's gone up in price and included ads into the dashboard, yet large numbers of people continue to pay for it without hesitation.

Now, it's your choice- or anyone else's- if you wanna support Microsoft's consoles. But a different tactic than flat-out support could have changed a lot of what SHOULD be considered negatives with the 360.

Hopefully, people being proactive before the XBOne comes out will prevent such things from occurring this time around.

kingPoS1655d ago

A lot of it has to do with the accessibility of a console.

Buy console
Buy game
Play game (partial installs may be required)

The problem is that Microsoft's new method happens to be a lot less simple.

Buy console
Buy game
Connect online
Install and register game
Play game

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