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TotalBiscuit Supports Xbox One's Used Games Fee

By William Usher

So we've come to the point where people are taking sides during the uproar over consumer policies and the employment of certain intended market practices that could stamp out consumer rights in ways only George Orwell could have imagined. On the side of fee implementations for used games is the Cynical Brit, YouTube star TotalBiscuit.

Judgments on the man himself should be reserved for another time, but as the near 30 minute video above notes, there's a lot of information passed off, much of which is inaccurate and incorrect. Unlike Microsoft, though, I'll actually explain why that is instead of leaving you hanging like a snotty booger from a kid's nose during a cold winter's day.

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DaThreats1545d ago

It's against the law to say we can't sell or trade items that we own, as long as we know it's not an illegal product or you know is stolen.

Godmars2901545d ago (Edited 1545d ago )

But the subject has been less than hazy on the subject of PC games. So of course it bleeds into console gaming, because of both that and the rise of piracy on consoles.

Which, by the time said console piracy is finally addressed, has become a sub culture.

cyguration1545d ago

Actually, there is no haze.

PC digital distributors are supposed to offer facilitation of game resales (presumably similar to what MS is doing with their Azure Cloud service).

The VZBV have been on digital distributors about this but it's something that has to be settled in court.

Basically, if Microsoft goes through with this the only way to stop them would be in court. And I hate to say it, but even with a class action lawsuit it wouldn't be enough to stop Microsoft. They are the epitome of money.

Godmars2901545d ago

I'm mean even before DDLs companies were moving to limit game resales of PC games and programs.

And if it happens its not just going to be MS, Sony will be pressured into following suit. Just Don't see how such could be enforced to the level it could be on Xb1 given its online connection requirement.

Really, the only thing that's going to slow it down is if people stop buying games. Though the industry needs some serious readjustments given the mess f the current gen.

Sideras1544d ago

The PC and the Console ecosystem is entierly different. It's not really comparable when it comes yo used games.

Godmars2901544d ago

@Sideras:
Except consoles have been moving closer and closer towards PCs in almost every way but physical media. Until now. The PC dev culture has certainly migrate over to consoles, and they've only had contempt towards piracy. Low system specs as well.

Really the last has become to dividing factor between the PC and console gaming communities: where PC devs had plenty of room to develop a game and could regularly increase limits, console devs had to settle and made due with what they had.

Actually, no real point in going into detail over that, since that culture - the actual console culture - no longer really exists. Its been nagged whined and threatened into extinction by devs like Carmack and the Crytek guys who couldn't do anything with its limitations, and now can't do better with the specs they've finally gotten.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1544d ago
matgrowcott1544d ago

People repeating this are annoying me.

You CAN sell the disk you've bought. Go ahead. It's a physical item that you hold.

You can even trade the licence that came with that disk (Microsoft confirmed).

Who cares if that disk you just paid $60 is only worth the price of a blank rewritable now? There's nothing stopping you from selling it. Who cares if you can only trade the licence through Microsoft's servers? You still have the ability to do so.

There's a difference between not being able to do it and not being able to do it exactly the way you want.

DARK WITNESS1544d ago

WHO CARES.....

We Do !! Gamers, xbox users !

HammadTheBeast1544d ago

Cause there is a fee to play used games.

matgrowcott1544d ago (Edited 1544d ago )

Jesus, and this is where things get REALLY funny.

I'm not saying it's morally right, I'm not saying it's ok. What I'm saying is that you can't justify your opinion by saying that it's illegal for Microsoft to slightly inconvenience you. They're not stopping you from selling your stuff in ANY WAY.

@NateCole

"So you are saying that when i buy a new game i only own the disc and ms still owns the copy of the games software on it?. "

Is that news? You own a licence to use a piece of software. It's been that way since the seventies. You don't own the software itself, nor do you have permission to make changes, nor to copy it (unless expressly laid out in said licence).

"Dude that's like saying when i buy a music CD or a move DVD/Bluay i only own the dics and i can't resell them or give them away to whoever i like because the music company or the movie company still own the copy of the content on them dics."

No, that's like saying that when you buy a music cd or a DVD, you own the disk and a licence to use the content on there. You don't own the content itself. Again, this isn't news. That's why you get a page at the beginning of every DVD telling you not to copy it, use it in a public place etc.

You CAN resell your disk and licence. The difference being that the disk and licence on the Xbox One is separate.

"When consumers buy these products they own the product. They are not just buying the discs nor just renting or loaning the copy of the content on them. Consumers "OWN" them."

They own a physical product. If you break your disk, you're not allowed to call the record company and demand a new version of the CD. If you borrow a DVD to a friend and don't get it back, you don't have a right to download that film for free.

THIS STUFF ISN'T NEW. IT'S BEEN THE NORM FOR DECADES. It's been the LAW for decades. Are you people really just realizing this now?!

NateCole1544d ago

So you are saying that when i buy a new game i only own the disc and ms still owns the copy of the games software on it?.

Dude that's like saying when i buy a music CD or a move DVD/Bluay i only own the dics and i can't resell them or give them away to whoever i like because the music company or the movie company still own the copy of the content on them dics.

When consumers buy these products they own the product. They are not just buying the discs nor just renting or loaning the copy of the content on them. Consumers "OWN" them.

Nineball21121544d ago

@ NateCole... well, yes and no.

You do have a point but it isn't so cut and dry.

You own the movie disc that contains the movie. You currently can sell that DVD/Blu Ray to someone else. But you DO NOT own the movie that is on the DVD/Blu Ray. If you make copies of that disc and sell them multiple times, you'll be in legal trouble (assuming you get caught).

I think what Microsoft is doing (Publisher's are doing) is taking this concept and making it more stringent. What they want to do (obviously) is not even allow you to sell your game even ONE time to be used like it has been in the past.

NateCole1544d ago (Edited 1544d ago )

@matgrowcott. That's where you are wrong. I own the single copy of the content on the disc. It is why i can resell as is. If i don't own it then i can't resell that single copy of it.

"You CAN resell your disk and licence. The difference being that the disk and licence on the Xbox One is separate"

And that is the problem. It is clear you understand and yet you refuse to believe this is not any different from current industry practice?.

@nineball: Well yes offcourse you cant make copies and then resell it. You can't even publicly broadcats it as well because you dont own the IP (master)itself. You are not even suppose to make a duplicate of the content for yourself because you only have rigths to the single copy you bought. That is very clear. You can't modify it or duplicate it.

What is very clear though is that you own the single copy that is on the disc that you bought. It is yours to own forever is it not?. Or does it have an expiry date?. It's yours to resell or give away your disc with the single copy should you wish to do so this is how things has been.

It is crazy how some people here are defending this when it's clearly anti-consumer rights and is new different from standard practice.

HammadTheBeast1544d ago (Edited 1544d ago )

Until you can link me CONFIRMED FROM MS quotes, I disagree.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1544d ago
MoveTheGlow1544d ago (Edited 1544d ago )

It's against the First Sale Doctrine, which has been completely skirted around in various industries by classifying products as "services" and not "owned" products. Even those games which take place entirely offline - you've paid for a license for the service now, so long as you've got any DRM protecting it. If that DRM server shuts down and you've got no way to play the game, tough tamales. It's a service, and it ended.

This has been especially prevalent with eBooks. You can't even check those things out at libraries, because they're always supposed to be connected to someone's account. Oh, you can sign the library up for what basically constitutes as a one-user-license program like Overdrive, but then you're usually on a 100-person waiting list, instead of just walking into the building and either placing a hold or checking the thing out. Publishers still shy away from even using *those* services because OMG PIRACY (on a secure database laden with DRM, cool story bro), or because they want to charge users more, or just hate the idea of a library. Why not a store, they think. And if that Overdrive service goes kaput? Bye-bye books. It was a service.

What we want is for at least one console manufacturer to step up and say no to *more* DRM, restricting physical copies of a game to a single account. Borrowing a game from a friend, for instance. Informal trading of games like on Goozex. If they want to make a deal with Gamestop and get some cash out of it, they will. It's the little guy with a community of gamers around him who suffers. And, again, libraries can't check out those games. And they do have those programs in place.

TotalBiscuit has zilch interest in this topic. He usually plays downloaded games on PC, often ones tied to an account, like BattleNet or at least Steam. But he plays *cheaper* ones because of all that. They're cheaper because we're PC gamers and we put up with the crap (usually. Don't screw with SimCity). If that becomes the new norm, who cares about making prices cheaper? You have no choice. Buy our 60 dollar game. Oh, piracy isn't killing the industry anymore, it just costs more to mo-cap a dog these days! Buy our 70 dollar game. You see what I'm saying?

DarthJay1544d ago

There is nothing preventing anyone from selling their physical disc, therefor, no one would ever say you can not sell an item you own.

Dlacy13g1544d ago

@DaThreats yes you can sell your game disc anyway you want...but the license you bought is not subject to the same in the eyes of the law.

Imalwaysright1544d ago (Edited 1544d ago )

Here in Europe we are can sell digital games and personally I see no difference between the license of digital games and the license of the content in the disks we buy so lets see if MS will be allowed to control what is ours here in the EU.

http://www.joystiq.com/2012...

From the article:

""The exclusive right of distribution of a copy of a computer program covered by such a licence is exhausted on its first sale," the court has found."

Dlacy13g1544d ago

@Imalwaysright hows that working out on Steam?

but ...this is all a bit moot...you will be able to sell your used games. Not sure what the fuss is.

Cosmo8111544d ago

You realise the law is not the same in every country right? And that there are *gasp* countries outside of the US?

ginsunuva1544d ago

You can't sell other applications (mobile apps, MS Office, Photoshop, etc..)

Games are applications.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1544d ago
Mr_Nuts1545d ago (Edited 1545d ago )

:O

Is he taking the biscuit or what (no pun intended...or was it)

ltachiUchiha1545d ago

Lol hes on some good biscuits. I see something green sticking out of the biscuits lol.

ltachiUchiha1545d ago

Hahaha damn that video was creepy but funny lmao. Yeah that video is right on point minus the creepyness lol.

HarryMasonHerpderp1544d ago (Edited 1544d ago )

Wonder what publishers will use as an excuse next, now that they will (probably) kill the used game market? Maybe if they budgeted their games properly they wouldn't be selling 5 million copies and still considering the game a flop. Alas it must be the used games! what aload of absolute bollocks. Shame on you biscuit for supporting these snakes.

Smashbro291544d ago

I am not watching a 26 minute video just to get one guys opinion. I tried and so far it's "other media has other revenue streams" guess what biscuit guy? I'm not in the industry and neither are most people so let me break out the world's smallest violin. If the PS4 doesn't pull this crap it will do considerably better. Meaning more consoles sold meaning it will be lead platform meaning it will be the one to get.

End of story.

fsfsxii1544d ago (Edited 1544d ago )

Blocking used games would make torrented games thrive
Also, whoever believes publisher's crap is brainwashed, seriously.