350°
Submitted by nukeitall 581d ago | news

The Xbox One will kill used games and control second-hand sales, and that’s great news (Really!)

Microsoft stepped in a load of dog shit when news of fees to play used games and account-based permissions began to hit the press, and the lack of a cohesive message in this area has hurt the public’s perception of the upcoming Xbox One. The idea of the used game, at least as Penny Arcade understand it, may be coming to a close.

The surprising thing? That could be great news. (Industry, Microsoft, Tech, Xbox One)

jc48573  +   581d ago
well, someone just came with an article and mentioned something about on the spot reauthentication at retail stores that sell used games. Man, I don't even know what's true anymore.
#1 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
jujubee88  +   581d ago
Either way,
The new bureaucracy installed to rework how used games will "work", IS going to cost mind and man power.

Not sure how it will all work, but if the PS4 used game policy stays the same and MS tries something new: one will face an uphill battle laying down new pipelines, while the other has all the power already on and working.

Will the average college student working in local gamestops even bother listening to the MS rep coming in, telling him how this tech should be used? Or will that worker just concentrate on his already rough job, tell the kid trying to sell an Xbox One, "sorry, we don't accept those"? Or will brick and mortar stores (already under tight budgets) want to open up their pocket books, spend more money to have pros run that used game system? We'll see.
#1.1 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
jc48573  +   581d ago
I think it would be much wiser if Sony simply made transactions easier for retailers and consumers, so I hope it happens. Going through that extra wait just to get your game re-authenticated seems a bit weird to me. Not every consumer would like that, so these are the kind of "buyer's mentality" microsoft should've considered. Then again, there are a other issues with xboxone we need to worry about as well.
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joab777  +   581d ago
Agree. Once the market is dead both sony and MS will be able to go the route of Steam. They can offer deals etc...and they will make more money. The ps3 once allowed 5 ppl to play one game. Maybe reinstating something like that will appease gamers because it could b even cheaper than buying used.
Blacktric  +   581d ago
"This is good news for a few reasons. The first is that piracy will likely be reduced."

Jesus christ this logic... Quality gaming journalism at its best.

"The next thing is that the used-game market all but disappears. "

This is just goddamn embarrasing. But considering the same guy who said "if you can't afford to get internet, you shouldn't buy a console" on Twitter wrote this, it's just understandable.
#1.1.3 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(1) | Report
adorie  +   581d ago
This terrible opinion piece was already mangled by NeoGAF. Someone should have struck this down before it got approved.

The author of said article is an extremely asinine corporate bottom shoe licking toolshed.

"Based on this information, it sounds like you’ll be able to “sell” your used games, but no one will buy able to buy them. Microsoft becomes the entity that controls the entirety of the transaction, and no lower-priced tier of 'used games' is ever created in this scenario."

This is only good for suits. Devs get their share, Pubs take the rest. Suits = Pubs.
#1.2 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
DragonKnight  +   581d ago
"The author of said article is an extremely asinine corporate bottom shoe licking toolshed."

Agreed. This "article" is just terrible.

"This is good news for a few reasons."

No it's not. At all. For anyone but Microsoft and greedy publishers, this is bad news.

"The first is that piracy will likely be reduced."

The token argument for all anti-consumer practices involving software. It was never a valid reason, and it never will be.

"The next thing is that the used-game market all but disappears. GameStop may not be able to aggressively hawk used games for $5 less than the new price to customers under these new controls, which is great if you're a developer or publisher. Once that secondary market is removed you can suddenly profit from every copy of your game sold, and as profit margins rise it's possible we'll see prices drop. Some stodgy publishers will likely stay with the $60 model, but they're dead companies walking already. The smart companies will see this opportunity to play with pricing and see what works and what doesn't."

This whole thing is B.S. I'm still looking for someone to answer the question "Why should developers/publishers get extra profit off of one copy for NOT doing ANYTHING extra to deserve it?" And don't get it twisted, "you can suddenly profit from every copy of your game sold" <- This already happens. Unless sold online, developers don't sell their games directly to consumers and instead sell to stores like Gamestop, who are the ones that pay for the copies in full.

"Without the used market sucking up all those sales and all that consumer money, it's very possible we'll see Steam-style sales on older or bundled games on the Xbox One."

That's a false connection. The DD games on Live and PS3 already prove that publishers aren't interested too much in ever lowering the prices of their games, even if they are years old. What's more likely to happen is that publishers will see that there is not other option for consumers to get the game cheaper, so they'll have said consumers "by the balls" so to speak.

"It's not a sure thing, but killing used games is going to free up a ton of money for companies to try new ideas in terms of sales and pricing."

*facepalm* more failed logic that doesn't take into consideration the possibility of people just not buying the games at all.

"The current economics of game development and sales are unsustainable."

Wrong, the current business models are unsustainable.

And finally, stop using Steam as an example. Steam itself is a huge form of DRM and is anti-consumer in its own ways. It's only prevalent because it suckered PC gamers for too long to the point where it's too late to do anything about it.

Everything Microsoft has planned is bad for the consumer.
MikeMyers  +   581d ago
Funny how people don't care about the viability of the industry to make money. We've seen many game developers go under and we've also heard many comments from game developers who would like to abolish used games in its current form.

We have to think differently now. It is not like before. Everything is connected now and those servers cost money. I also don't want people stuck in the past limiting what's possible for the future. I want games to be quick to get started and play. I want games ready to go and not have to wait for it to load, wait for it to patch. I want to be able to have access to all of my games from anywhere without the need for the hardware to be carried around. I can go to my buddies house and sign-in and play my games.

Games like Watchdogs and Destiny will show what's possible in games going forward and why being connected has its benefits. If you don't want to be part of the new generation then go pull your SNES out of the attic.

PC gaming has evolved, it's time for game consoles to.
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Kyosuke_Sanada  +   581d ago
@ Mike Myers

The reason why most of these game companies are going under is because of poor money management.

How many companies tried to make a mansion out of toothpicks by making unnecessary triple AAA games (Tomb Raider) or tried to do unnecessary reboots (Zipper Interactive), paid way too much for licensing (THQ) or had an advertisement budgets which are almost triple the game's production cost (EA).......

It's hard to tell if serious or stealth trolling....
DragonKnight  +   581d ago
Ladies and Gentlemen, behold MikeMyers. Corporate apologist and defender of anti-consumerism.

"PC gaming has evolved, it's time for game consoles to."

You call the destruction of the used game market an evolution? Wow. Microsoft saw you coming.
#1.2.4 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(1) | Report
onanie  +   581d ago
@DragonKnight

LOL. I'm sure Microsoft enjoyed the sight.
MariaHelFutura  +   581d ago
No, not being able to share your property is not a great thing. Stop drinkin' the Kool Aid.
Irishguy95  +   581d ago
Been that way on PC for years...hasn't really bothered me.
MariaHelFutura  +   581d ago
PC gamers don't share, they pirate. Not all, but most/some.
Ducky  +   581d ago
^ ... but piracy is sharing.
00  +   581d ago
you can't compare PC gaming to consoles gaming
the xbone id basically a shitty PC without any of the benefits.
#2.1.3 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(3) | Report
MariaHelFutura  +   581d ago
^^^
Piracy is not sharing, it's theft. The only people who would consider piracy sharing, is loney ass PC gamers who have no real friends to share with.
Prcko  +   581d ago
piracy is theft!!!
Ducky  +   581d ago
Maria really dislikes PC gamers for some reason.
Piracy isn't restricted to gaming.

I guess it might be worth pointing out that you've arbitrarily defined 'theft' as a 'lost potential sale', which is exactly how publishers view the 2nd hand game market.
kneon  +   581d ago
@Ducky

Piracy is theft, you have obtained something to which you are not entitled.
azshorty2003  +   581d ago
Then you guys are suckers that didn't put up a fight. And you gave in so easily because of all rhe attractive Steam sales.

The big difference is, PC gamers buy nontransferable games for $5-10. The Xbox Ones nontransferable games will be between $40-$55.

If that's all Microsoft charged, then I might be OK with that.
Dark_Overlord  +   581d ago
FFS when will people understand that piracy IS NOT THEFT, it is copyright infringement.

Theft is defined as taking something so that the original person does not have said item anymore, copyright infringement is making a copy of said product without the original owners permission.

Nobody has ever been prosecuted for theft when it comes to piracy, they've been prosecuted for copyright infringement.

Here's something for you to read

http://torrentfreak.com/pir...
#2.1.9 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report
rainslacker  +   580d ago
And yet...the UK last year had to rule on ownership rights of games brought on Steam. Isn't it possible that a lot of people are starting to see the downsides of DD?

It may not bother you, but it does bother others. Just because you feel nothing for it, doesn't mean it doesn't effect you. One day you may find that all this indifference comes back to bite you in the ass...kinda like it is doing for many right now since we have to deal with it in this manner.
shadowraiden  +   581d ago
its not your property and hasnt been since the start of gaming.
buying the game doesnt mean you own it anyway it just means you have brought the right to play it and thats it if you read the terms and agreements you accepted when you put the disc on your console you are breaking them by then selling it.

love the disagrees when all i was doing was pointing out a fact. end of day this has been in gaming for a long time in which you was breaking the T&A's by selling your copy its just there wasn't a way to enforce it untill recent years.
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MariaHelFutura  +   581d ago
Are you insane? That's one of the most crazy/sad thing I've ever heard on this site (that says alot).

Anyway, hypothetically if someone comes and steals your game collection, you have the option of calling the police to attempt to recover your property and if they succeed in recovering your property the person who took them will be charged w/ theft. If you want you even not press charges personally and give them your game collection if you choose to.

BECAUSE IT'S YOUR PROPERTY!!!!
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SexyGamerDude  +   581d ago
I just read the book to my copy of Final Fantasy 13-2 and the only selling that it seems to mention that is wrong is the selling of unauthorized reproductions (Illegal copies). It says nothing about selling the original copy.
#2.2.2 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(1) | Report
00  +   581d ago
that is insane
I'm guessing you send out checks to the manufactures every time you sell your old stuff.
Software_Lover  +   581d ago
No, purchasing a game has always meant you owned it, until Apple and f'n itunes changed everything. Now we have agreements everywhere we go. We have to accept before we do anything.
sway_z  +   581d ago
Re; shadowraidens comment....

He's right, this copyright law exists with Literature, Music, Movies and Video Games.

...but nobody pays attention to copyright law, and it is rarely enforced by cops.

Don't be so dismissive..if you don't know, ask and be informed people :)

*for the record, I disagree with said laws...if you buy it, you should own it.
#2.2.5 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(3) | Report
Majin-vegeta  +   581d ago
*These aren't crazy ideas. You can't sell your games on Steam,*

Umm did OP not get the message yet??You can sell your digital games in Europe anyways.
http://www.gameinformer.com...

Edit:Like Maria said not being able to share our games without paying extra is bs. Anyone who says they are ok with this are basically telling M$.*They like to be taken advantage of.*
#3 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(15) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
SexyGamerDude  +   581d ago
I don't even know why people keep comparing this to steam. Steam gives you deals and sells you games for low prices, sometimes you can even get certain things for free. I doubt you will see the low prices you see on steam on the One. Microsoft wants to get more money out of you, digital copies on Live almost always cost more than physical ones.
shadowraiden  +   581d ago
yet there isnt a sell option on steam for EU and most likely never will be.

tbh its not so much the consumer they're trying to take advantage off its the companies who have made millions by leeching off the used game market.
wishingW3L  +   581d ago
gamers are so easy on giving up on their rights... If people are like this when it comes to video games no wonder why politics are so bad.
shadowraiden  +   581d ago
and those rights were given up as soon as you put the disc in.

unlike other media you dont own the game when you buy it you essentially rent the right to play it yourself for a indefinite amount of time.
SexyGamerDude  +   581d ago
You don't rent the rights to play. You buy them. If I want to give my rights to someone else, I can.
ginsunuva  +   581d ago
@above

Can you give someone else your copy of MS Office? Or windows? Or Photoshop? Or any mobile app?
rainslacker  +   580d ago
I posted this in another article, but feel it relevant to this discussion.

Here's how it works in software. We can thank the courts for leaving this up in the air, and not having a actual stance on the issue for God knows what reason.

With most software purchases, you are not buying the actual code. The disc you receive is nothing more than a distribution medium, not unlike a download.

What you are purchasing is a license to play the code in the manner it is intended, such as on a game console. Because it is a license, you and only you are eligible to use it, and in most cases it is considered non-transferable.

So far, for the most part, the actual license is attached to the disc. So when one trades/sells a disc the license is sold with it, along with the distribution method. They are intrinsically linked. Basically, if you have the disc in possession you have permission to use the code and license. So 2nd hand sales continue.(adding:Someone mentioned above that enforcing copyright is rarely enforced. That is more accurate as the license is still sold to the person, but the principal is that it's attached to the media right now).

With this new thing, the license and the distribution method are separated, the way they were always intended to be, much like DD. What you are buying is the license and the use and ownership of that license is outlined based on what the provider wants(The TOS), and stipulates whether or not you can transfer it to someone else(You usually can't). As such, MS is within their legal rights to charge for someone else to use it, or to charge to facilitate the transfer of that license to another person(the fee in this case), or worse yet strip your right to use that code at a moments notice(account ban for instance). The physical distribution medium in this case is just a convenience for the retail shopper, or for those that don't have fast internet...or whatever.

MS has been doing this for quite some time with their retail releases of their software packages and OS's. It's nothing new for them. In this case, the license is attached to a person(account actually), whereas their software packages are attached to a machine.

NOTE:
This is why it's legal. Not a moral judgement on whether it's ethical. Another thing to note, the EU ruling on DD resale is a step forward in ownership rights of software, however even Steam has taken measures to circumvent it, so it's not going to be a simple issue that is easily resolved.

2nd Note:
On the stripping away your rights to use the software, this could get hairy if all licenses were taken away from a user. There is an expectation among the consumer to be allowed to use their product based on the terms of sale, and that term of sale does not always extend into the terms of service. Again it's a tricky issue, but Steam did it with their users by forcing them to accept a new TOS or lose access to their games. I'm not aware of any litigation over that issue, but the courts may have sided with anyone who brought a case because of it. Again, not trying to debate the morality or ethnicity of this, just pointing it out.
Tetsujin  +   580d ago
@gin

You purchase those programs you mentioned for 1 use (sometimes multiple depending), so in theory you could buy Windows however never use it, sell for a higher $, and no one would ever notice because it hasn't been used prior to someone selling it (again unless it's a multi license). All your paying for is some sort of phone tech support (and even then sometimes it's still paid), and updates you really don't need outside the occasional "oops."

At the same time I can find open source versions of about 90% of paid software for free, and share it however I want, because in the ToS the only real important parts are: Can't sell for profit, and the software developers take 0 responsibility for damages caused. The open source community realizes not everyone has $ to spend on software that's already outdated when you can get a free version that's almost better, and even has community support for free.
00  +   581d ago
only in the game industry could you have consumers gladly give up there rights to do as they please with their product.

And this guy is a grad A idiot.

Related image(s)
#5 (Edited 581d ago ) | Agree(16) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
ArnoldSchwarzenigra  +   581d ago
I can't wait until Microsoft has full control over everything I own and imposes restrictions over everything I pay for legally.
colonel179  +   581d ago
I can't believe there are still people defending these practices.
PhantomT1412  +   581d ago
Is the author so naive to think publishers will drop prices if there are no more second-hand markets?
Tetsujin  +   580d ago
It's wishful thinking, too bad that's all it is. If anything they will raise the price claiming something else is causing "low sales."
abc1233  +   581d ago
Without a used game market people will be buying less games. They will be buying less DLC and less sequels new. Just because someone is willing to pay £15 for a used game doesn't mean that they'll be willing to pay £30 if their only option is buying it new. This could bring in the benefit of publishers lowering their prices, but I can easily see that not being the case with publishers like Activision and EA walking around. This is a system which will fail as it puts the publishers before the consumers.
DevilishSix  +   581d ago
I beleive most gamers will buy less games, if their games have no real trading or secondary market value, as we now know it, then I see less sales and less money for publishers. Not only will they have screwed over their fans, but they will have screwed themselves as well, because gamers will now ignore all fringe games other than a few they have to have all the rest will die off.

See greedy companies see all that used game market and think they can add that to their current bottom line, problem is the reason there is a used game market is because gamers own the copy and can trade and sell. The set up trying to be installed will eliminate that and gamers have no reason to jump thru the hoops to return to get $5 - 10 back. Then who will want to buy a used game disc hoping the new reactivation code works. The whole setup is to exhausting and I am not partaking in it.

I have already decided to go PS4, even if Sony does the same. The PS4 offers more under the hood and will not have required Kinect always on.

I see my purchase of around 20 games a year to be cut in half. Because I will no longer to building a collection of games with value, it will just be a worthless collection of high priced rentals.
Gamer-Z  +   581d ago
You are correct, These big publisher think that by monopolizing the games market will result in more sales but what publishers fail to understand is that the second hand game market fuels future purchases of new games but once they eliminate that market people will have less money resulting in fewer sales and also it will force the consumer to be more picky about what they buy.
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DevilishSix  +   581d ago
It will also have an effect on the way games are reviewed. Reviews will have to become far more picky and critical of titles knowing gamers will be stuck in this position of keeping the title. It will also eliminate the possibility of letting friends and family borrow a title, they may normally disregard, which could result in purchases down the road.
rainslacker  +   580d ago
"High priced rentals"

That is the perfect description for what this is. Thank you. Bubbles up for that alone.

I wouldn't support the PS4 if this happens there, but I understand where your coming from with the rest of your statement. Good luck to all of us.:)
LeRise  +   581d ago
This author is smoking... not weed, not even wiiu, no... It's xbone that gives him such an erratic feeling.
Supermax  +   581d ago
Great article been saying for a year though,the closer we get to a steam type system the better it will be for consumers and developers.
rainslacker  +   580d ago
Except for those of us who like ownership, and care nothing for DD models.
steve30x  +   581d ago
Gamestop and XTravision will lose a lot of money from this scheme. Especially Xtravision which is struggling big time because they rent out games. They went into recievership a few weeks ago and I can see this adding a fee to used games being the end of Xtravision unfortunately. It will be a massive loss to this town because they are the only games and video rental store in this town. Microsoft doesnt care though because all they care about is bleeding as much money from their customers as they can.
FrigidDARKNESS  +   581d ago
Dont be surprised if Sony does the same thing they just havent said how they will do it. MS and Sony are major publishers and they are tired of losing money to gamestop and others that sell used games. Every used game sold gamestop pockets 100% of the profits thus MS and Sony will never see a penny of it.....folks need to read into the business side of gaming and retail instead of bashing a company that is trying to protect there investment.
steve30x  +   581d ago
I dont care. They are only putting these other companies out of business and thats wrong in every way possible.
Tetsujin  +   580d ago
There's a BIG difference between protecting your investment, and ripping customers off.

All this proves is the more someone whines the more someone will say "fine, we will fix YOUR issues" instead of "If you don't want second hand sales ruining your business, ask the community what YOU need to do to fix it." It's more of a simple case of community and companies having massive miscommunication.
kevinsheeks  +   581d ago
Penny arcade should have knew they would be spinning this to make it look positive
pop-voxuli  +   581d ago
To quote meself:

"Dear Microsoft,

As soon as the Xbox One gets hacked, and it will, I and many others are going to pirate the piss out of every damn game available simply because of the way you have screwed your loyal fanbase by taking away our rights. You think you're gonna screw us? Guess again."
steve30x  +   581d ago
I'm with you all the way. If they manage to hack the console and get rid of the DRM and allow us to play used games then I will buy an Xbox One. But I wont pirate the games. I just want rid of those draconian measures.
LightofDarkness  +   581d ago
So it's good news because it's putting Gamestop out of business? They employ thousands world wide. Sickening attitude.
hazelamy  +   581d ago
piracy will be reduced?
the fuck it will.
seriously, have you been living in a cave the last few years, the second biggest cause of piracy, after people just not wanting to pay for games, is bullshit drm systems that only affect legitimate buyers, just like this.

it's only that crap that makes people who would otherwise have bought new pirate.

oh yeah, though, preowned has caused all these studios to close.
not the recent fucking worldwide recession, that gaming weathered better than almost any other industry.
no, that has nothing to do with it, it's the preowned market that's always been there that is the problem.

in no other industry do the producer think they deserve to get paid again when the buyers resell or transfer ownership of the items by any other legal means.

look up first sale doctrine and try to tell me they have any fucking rights once they've sold the game.

people like you are the reason ms think they can get away with violating our rights over our purchases.

fucking Stockholm syndrome suffering sheep that just lap up the shit they feed you.

when big business takes our last right, remember you were part of the fucking problem.
2pacalypsenow  +   581d ago
So people hate GameStop for being greedy but an even greedier and corrupt company will take over it and its a good thing now??
Tetsujin  +   580d ago
My hate towards GameStop is the unfair buyback pricing they have, and how they sell used games -$5 less than new; at the same time I don't want someone out of a job, I just wish they sold at a cheaper price, or at least buy back games at a more fair price. What MS is doing is straight robbery, then try to spin "media" as the bad guy.
quenomamen  +   581d ago
Yea, lets make it so corporations dictates how, when, where and at what price used we can get used games, I mean it worked great for the housing market back in 2008.
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Mikeyy  +   581d ago
I agree with you, but I think you are wrong on the Number 1 cause of PC piracy.

It is not because we 'do not want to pay for games' its because most games today are not worth the full price. I simply will NOT ever pay full price for a game that only lasts 5 hours, and has no multiplayer component to extend the gameplay beyond the 100 hour mark.

These games get pirated all day long. Nobody is paying $50 to beat the game in a night and be done with it.

Developers need to get their heads out of their asses and step it up. Gamers wan't longer games, or at the very least a very well fleshed out Multiplayer that you can sink lots of time into and make steady progression the entire time. Empty multiplayer is also unexcusable, there should be goals, unlockables, upgrades, stats, ect. something to reward amount of time spent playing, indefinitly if possible.

If games do not meet these requirements, then expect to get pirated.

This is where Steam comes into play, steam is truely the saving grace of the PC industry, Forget the community, freinds lists, achievements, ECT. We all goto steam for one reason, and one reason only, THE SALES.

If ANYBODY was on the fence about buying or pirating a game, a Steam 25-50% off sale will easily sway them into spending their cash.

In closing, the economy is shit, people wan't to save money, Its all about sales.
saimcheeda  +   581d ago
The way I see it
Game sales will be pretty steady as compared to the install base but on the flip side the install base will probably be pretty low. People would buy new games for the Xbox One but people who don't want to buy new games, won't buy the Xbox One!
manageri   581d ago | Spam
tommygunzII  +   580d ago
Microsoft still has no clue as to what they are going to do. The more support the Xbox One gets now the less likely it will be able to play used games, among other restrictions.
Using the internet as a temperature gauge is a bad move in my opinion. I believe that is what they are doing.
josephayal  +   580d ago
i wan't an xbox

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