EuroGamer: "Ownership tied to login, there will be a resale mechanism, does require internet connection but not constantly."
This is getting hard to watch, I cant believe how MS is mishandling the Xbox One and doing so many things to make people not want one
I think they are trying to backtrack because of the backlash they are getting. If the console was being praised which they were hoping then they wouldn't have a problem admiting these things but because it's getting backlash left, right and center they are bricking themselfs. So these things are true, they are just trying to calm people down....sugar coat them untill E3 where they HOPE people will be amazed at the games and such where they won't care what they do with the console
So summary: If someone wants to borrow a friends game, they'd have to have the original owner there to log into the original owner's account. But if the friend wants to play the game with his own account, he HAS to pay a fee. In the end, this is utter BS.
LMAO @ Phil please stop while your 'NOT' ahead. I think it's just as confusing the second time. At the end of the day, if gamers can play their games offline and are allowed to trade them in MS will be fine. But, if they go weird with time limits etc. then IMO they are asking for the even controversy and fallout. Evil edit 'Looks like Phil Harrison is doing a good job.......as a sleeper cell agent for Sony!' @ Edmix Lol. He definitely isn't doing them any favors at the moment. @ Dean 'In the end, this is utter BS.' Yup. I think it's a dumb move to even open this can of worms. But, I see that maybe they are trying to avoid the ancient technique of this gens ban hammer.
@DeanSanchez Same goes for rentals, you would have to pay the used game fee for games you want to rent
His responses weren't at all sugar coated, though. What he said: 1. If you have one disc in a household, you can only play it on two consoles through the same account. Your little brother will have to pay to earn his own achievements. 2. You can not sell/give it to a friend once you've finished the game. 3. Only certain retailers will be able to sell these games. No pawn shops, Mom & Pop shops, eBay, or Amazon shops. 4. Online Passes are gone because now the whole game has a "Pass". Questions unanswered: 1. If you ban someone's account, do they lose access to all of their games? 2. How much of a 'fee' will it cost to buy a used game? 3. Who will control the 'fee' to buy a used game? 4. What retailers will do this and will they be available in rural areas (GameStop is closing how many stores this year?)?
So anyone who buys a used game would either need a very complicated system of transfer or else would be paying TWICE. Either way, very bad move, Microsoft. Good luck getting Gamestop to stock your consoles.
Heads are definitely rolling over this.
So basically the gist of this is that: 1. Used games are blocked and require an online pass like function to play the game at all. So it is in fact WORSE than the online pass. 2. You can't lend your game to your friend, because you have to login on his Xbox One. If you do trust your friend and give him your login details, you will MOST LIKELY not be able to login on your own Xbox One until that person logs out OR it will automatically log him out and kick him out of the game. So it is NOT like how it is currently where you can play a game and lend it to a friend. MS is so f***ed up if they think consumers are THAT stupid. The second issue doesn't really bother me because I don't borrow or lend games, but the first issue DEFINITELY bothers me, because although I rarely buy used games, I sell my old games quite a lot. So this will decrease the resale value by a lot, if they even allow reselling of games at all! Seems like all the rumours were true. MS is basically blocking used games, albeit in a rudimentary way, just to make more cash from the used games market. I can't believe they can be this stupid, the only thing that can save them is if they reduce the price of their games to $40 across the board.
this is crazy, second hand game market on Microsoft side will be dead... Hope its not true, I know many of gamers will still buy x box one, (it has COD on it, with exclusive 2 week DLC!!!!) so I dont want them to suffer like this, hope the used game fee is maximum $ 5, if more its a bad deal!!
"..If you have one disc in a household, you can only play it on two consoles through the same account. Your little brother will have to pay to earn his own achievements.." wow. So dad has to buy the game, pay another fee for his son to play on his own tag, another fee for his daughter to play on her's, plus pay for online however many times and log in every so many hours cuz of DRM. Easier to just not buy the damn thing. Pray you don't divorced. We're gonna need pre-nups on console service soon. "Mom gets the account and kids during the week while Dad only see's his cheevos on the weekend" lol.
microsoft thought they could get away with ripping its customers off since they did it last gen with paying to play.... now it looks like they took it too far
Well we need to know what the fee is going to be.
But there's still so many unanswered Qs at the moment... Do they themselves even have the answers at the moment?
So far, theoretically, my friends and I could "car pool" with games and ill pay the (cheaper than buying new?) license for all of their games and they'll pay the licenses for my games and... I'm pretty sure then MS are losing money as in the past, we would each buy any decent game ourselves.
Maybe it will be up to publishers for how much the fees will be.
This could get even worse than it already sounds.
1, All this linking to accounts to prevent a person from buying it and playing on several accounts is not needed. That is accomplished since the start of time by checking to see if the disk is in the drive! 2, If I cant sell what I bought to who I want I dont really 'own it'. 3, If I must pay any kind of fee to sell my game or the buyer has to pay a fee then I didnt really own it! 4,What if the fee is 25$ and the retailer has it for $24 used(because they get a discount) My game is worthless! 5,What if the fee is 25$ and the retailer wants to sell it for $35, that leaves $10 for me and gamestop to split! Who will get the most of that $10 I BET NOT ME! Will the used sector survive, or be worth it for $10? 6, Didn't the publisher get paid for this once already? 7, I dont have to pay 50cents to give my cd to my niece!
OK, yeah they f-up the PR but as long as the end result is that they are not going to block used games and I can loan my game to a friend, then Im good: "I can come to your house and I can put the disc into your machine and I can sign in as me and we can play the game," he explained. "The bits are on your hard drive. At the end of the play session, when I take my disc home - or even if I leave it with you - if you want to continue to play that game [on your profile] then you have to pay for it. The bits are already on your hard drive, so it's just a question of going to our [online] store and buying the game, and then it's instantly available to play. "The bits that are on the disc, I can give to anybody else, but if we both want to play it at the same time, we both have to own it. That's no different to how discs operate today." -Phil Harrison -So correct me if I'm wrong but once it has been downloaded to 1 profile you just need the disc to play on a friends console whereas the original owner doesn't need the disc to play?
You would also have to log in on that particular machine. And I would assume that, even if you were fine with giving your friend your login information, you would not be able to be logged into multiple systems at the same time, seeing as there is an online requirement to play the games. So yes, this is still ridiculously terrible.
OK you guys can keep disagreeing and spewing all the fanboy jokes all you like, jokes don't bother me one bit (see my name) nah but seriously I want to f-ing know what the hell they are doing with used games 'cause although I buy new I have lots of friends I let borrow games from time to time and this would suck. Edit vvv my bad meant to reply to EDMIX Edit @Bimkoblerutso, so bear with me but are you sure that as long as I'm not trying to play the same game at the same time that I loaned to him that it will work if I'm playing another game I own at the same time? I mean right now you need the disc to play on another console anyway.
If you play with your disc on a friends console you have to sign in with your account and load your profile on his or her machine. Otherwise if he or she wants to play with it on their account on any machine outside of a family associated account they have to pay for it.
Anyone stupid enough to buy it will need Internet connection ("logging in") when the game is installed and each 24 hours. If you are the first owner who sold or lended to a friend, you'll have the 'bits' in your HDD and the license. The 2nd buyer will have the 'bits' on disc and HDD (when he installs) but not the license. He has to buy the game, the license. The 'bits' are free to put wherever who has the disk wants, because they're useless without the license. So, yes, xone blocks 2nd hand games. But that's no big deal. The console is aimed towards housewives, who don't even mind about all inconveniences ms is bringing.
I agree with you about the bubble/agree/disagree system, for what it's worth. It kind of promotes a passive approach to meaningful debate and discussion, if you ask me. Edit: And if I'm understanding things correctly (which I will admit that things are STILL a little unclear) you register games to an account which has to be actively online for you to play those games. So I would assume that you can only be actively online on one system at a time. The "bits" are installed to a HDD but cannot be accessed unless they are registered to the profile being used. But again, this is assuming that you don't mind giving someone else all your login information in the first place.
@Bimkoblerutso Thanks..Yeah this isn't what I want, love my bro's but I ain't giving them my account info. I was excited to see the new console, still like it but this is definitely BAD news. Damm just leave all this DRM BS alone and I would of been a happy camper. The not-always-on but you-need-online doesn't bother me at all 'cause basicly everybodys already connected. Since this is essentially a software restriction hopefully if xbox fans make some noise on forums they will change this.
***I have lots of friends I let borrow games from time to time and this would suck. *** The _only_ way you can lend your friends a game is if you shared accounts. And, when they're playing, you can't play. Only way. You can't even play the same disc on multiple consoles in the same house unless you log in with the same account (so, no multiple accounts in a household).
Will we even be able to give our account info? I thought it used Kinnect to Id us and sign in?
Funny how everyone discusses how to avoid this system without mentioning that the PS4 doesn't have these problems at all. Microsoft is just making business from everything it can.
Looks like Phil Harrison is doing a good job.......as a sleeper cell agent for Sony! HE IS DESTROYING MS FROM THE INSIDE! Phil Harrison "err....yea Used games needs to be blocked......yea" Don - "are you sure? I mean...people still buy and play used games" Phil Harrison "do they Don?....do they really?" Don -"...I guess not Phil" Phil Harrison "good.....good (shifty eyes)"
EXACTLY! Why did Sony have trouble with the Ps3 before? Phil Harrison! Why does MS have trouble with the xbox now? Phil Harrison!
It's standard Microsoft policy, sell the consumer the product they want them to have, not the product they want. Even when they get huge amounts of negative feedback they don't listen and just do what they want.
Just imagine how many people will buy the console without knowing this. Its sad when you look at it. I miss the good old times when you just popped in a disc and played your game without any worries
I miss the good old days when you popped in a cartridge, then pulled it out, blew in it, then popped it back in
On the bright side (if it can be called bright at all) if they block used games for real you can rest assured stores like GameStop (and other who deal in used games) will make sure every costumer who steps inside get informed, as it's not so good for their business, so it will save some of those uninformed. On a separated note, I kind of seen it confirmed the moment EA said they were dropping Online Passes. Don't be surprised if you see something similar on PS4 (not on the console itself or other games, but from EA), instead of the online pass you'll need a license that works like that, not just preventing used sales, but also borrowing, multiple login, changing your account and what not... EA wouldn't let go of DRM.
I do too Ron. Wish I still had my Super Nintendo now.
Were so engrossed in the system's media aspect they never once considered the choices they were making on the game side until after the presentation? When the very people who were saying "don't do that" before started saying "we told you NOT to do that" and now they're left trying to explain how they didn't when it really looks like they did.
Just sounds confusing and horrible. I know they want to do the whole switching between a video game and other apps being fast and seamless, but I don't think it's worth the confusion. Just go back to requiring the games to work with the disc and anything you buy online tied to the hardware/account. I mean what if you go to a friends house to play one of your Xbox One games, but your friend doesn't have internet connection? What then? I'd say they should just scrap it, but I think it's too late.
I'm a normal person and I certainly don't want one. Confirmed.
Xbox one will be hacked into oblivion and rightfully so.
thats the first thing i thought as well. as soon as it's released it will be hacked in around a month. and i still wouldn't get one cuz i'll be too busy playing games on my ps4 with no hassle.
Its like watching a train wreck. Seriously, whoever came up with this should be fired.
It's definately the biggest PR disaster in a long time.
he has changed since sony. He used to talk about games!!!
Oh my.... my head is starting to ache from all of this corporate bullshit talk today honestly. I'm logging off. See you all later.
Not that many people travel around with games and take them over a friends house. How old are you people? I play games at home. usually my friends have the same game if I choose to play over their home. I am not a 12 year old that carries around video games from house to house so that is not going to prohibit me from buying a damn console. What is going to prohibit from buying it is the HUGE SIZE of it and the lack of software. Why would 75% of people care if their friend has to buy the game or not. If you log in under your account at your friends house you can still play it. ITS THAT DAMN SIMPLE
so you don't have friends or family that play games and may not always have the money to get every game they want? and if so wouldn't you let them borrow your game ? but even if you wanted to it would be moot because they would have to buy it anyways. me and my cousin, and yes we are grown men, borrow each others games all the time. i have one of his games right now.
this is a disaster
It's like watching a turd salesman with a mouthful of samples.
A disgusting yet accurate analogy sir. *golf-clap*
lol Damn it bubble for you man.
Ms just sell your studios to Sony and get out of the console business.And Enter Sega.
^^ This OT: At this point, MS just please get out of the console business
The kinect ones jk Ot: they just keep digging themselves into a bigger hole, Even if they bring games @ e3 there is still that use game fee which is complete and utter BS
@Rusty515 hahaha oh man thats a good one ^_^
didn't you watch the release? they are getting out of the console business!
so much spinning just to end up in the same place. First you need to connect the console online at least once every 24 hours to be able to play games (offline games), and then that game you bought is attached to only one account and to play it on another one you have to pay. No matter how they want to spin it to make it sound fine we still end up going back to where we started. They are blocking used games and you NEED an online connection. Plain and simple. Example: For your friend to be able to play that game he borrowed from you he will need your account but 2 accounts can't be online at the same time. So he will either need to pay to play it on his account or ask for yours but then you will not be able to play games while he's using it. Do these guys think we are stupid or what?
@wishingW3L so let say what we have now, you let your friend borrowed that disc. If you both want to play it at the same time, how do you do it, since you only have one disc? Don't each of you need that disc to play the game? A better question, do people even read the article? Now with this new requirement of installing to your HDD which allow you to play off of it without the disc, what happen if you have 20 friends who pitch together and buy only one copy and everyone can just play it (since they can install them to their HDD)? How do you prevent that from happening? Is that a good thing for game developer? Wouldn't that be a disaster for game developer? I can't believe people are that fickle or lack of simple understanding "Do these guys think we are stupid or what?" based on your argument, what they think isn't far off quick disagree eh, ok so smart group of people answer me then? Anyone, i didn't think so. @brucis, that would be a better explanation. So technically you have to be there, and you can't really leave your disc with him. But can't he play off line (if he has the disc?)
There's a difference between 'not being able to play that specific game because you lent it to a friend' and 'not being able to play any games because your friend has to use your account to play the game you lent him'. Edit in response to edit: It's obvious the reason you need to install is because 'we needed a way to curb used games and get more money', not 'we made the games playable without the discs to please the fans, then we came up with a way to make sure people don't rampantly copy their friend's games'. The fact that it's mandatory and not an option speaks volumes of what their intent was. Your condescension was far from necessary and makes you look like a scorned lover instead of someone who simply disagrees.
when I loan a game to someone they need MY account NOT just the disc.
Are you stupid? There is no need for it to have to be like this, the same security function could be had with forcing the use of the disc, not playing from it but just as confirmation that you own the game. The whole HDD installing BS is set up solely to enforce DRM. You're being had if you don't realize this.
Are you seriously trying to defend this?
Ok. So let me respond to this. 1st. He was saying that 2 accounts can't be online at the same time. He didn't say playing the same game. So let's say my friend is using my account to play BF3, I can't log into the same account and play COD. Why? Because it's the same account trying to do 2 different things at 2 different places. 2. Installing a game to your HDD does not mean you can play it without the disc. What happens is you put the disc in, it reads the start information off the disc and than it reads a code that says to read the rest of it off the HDD. The disc than stops spinning and the xbox reads the information off the HDD. However if the drive is opened the Xbox will suspend until it can read the start information off the disc again. This is the way it happened with computers before Steam, with the PS3, with the Xbox 360 (installed games). 3. Allegedly yes, he can play for 24 hours offline before he has to reconnect to the internet to verify the DRM. SO basically, put the game is, start it on the correct profile, than take the console off the internet and you can play for 24 hours (While your friend plays online somewhere else, with some other game) before you have to reconnect. 4. Yes I did read the article, twice. 5. Maybe you should wait for a while to see if someone actually answers you before you assume your logic is infallible.
Actually I do believe they think we are! Because for this whole generation they have gotten away with numerious things, and many have gone along with it! So it was only logical that this coming generation would be a perfect opportunity to see just how much they could get away with! They have been using Xbox Live as a vehicle to those ends, the intergration was a way to make those who have been loyal customers solely rely on that intergration. I here a lot of Xbox supporter talk about their achievement points, friends list, cross game chat all behind a pay barrier and I realise this is why Microsoft has a fee, and more importantly why customers keep paying! Without that subscription, gamers become separated from who they are as gamers! Microsoft knows this, and it most likely why they chose to reveil the Xbox 1 like they did. This may seem a little far fetched, but think about it! Many have devoted a lot of time and energy into Xbox Live, how would you feel if you suddenly had to start over from the beginning? You lost your online identity, friends you've made over the years, saved data, basically everything that made you who you are online.
@wishingW3L I apologize, i miss understand what you said at the last few sentences. "For your friend to be able to play that game he borrowed from you he will need your account but 2 accounts can't be online at the same time" since i did gloss over this " but then you will not be able to play games while he's using it." If this is really the case, I'm not getting one either. I buy tones of games new (have like 100 of backlog games that I still haven't touch) so I do tend to lend them out a lot, and this will not fly with me either :D
***Do these guys think we are stupid or what?*** They think we'll buy whatever they put out. And, honestly, look at Sim City 4. HOw many people bought that knowing exactly what the issues were or not even caring about them? How many people will buy into the hype of the Xbox One and it's 'features you must have'? In the end, people are stupid enough to buy this because they won't be informed or care until it's too late.
I play on my own im always online i dont sell my games i dont ask games to my friends i buy them I have zero problems about the Xbox 1 day 1
That's true, many people will buy the system completely oblivious, or uncaring about the actual problem here. However this isn't like SimCity, where it got patched and everything is fine now(relatively speaking). This is a whole underlying principal integrated into the system. People may start off not even realizing what is in store for them. Soon, people will start going to trade in their games for new ones, only to be told they can't. That's going to start pissing them off as they find out the reasons why. These people aren't going to give one rat's ass about if the original developer or publisher is not making money off a used sale. These people are only going to see that they own nothing. That they spent $60 on a intangible product which is now theirs for life, regardless of if they want it or not. These people are going to be forced to use whatever "trade-in" program MS has in store for them, thus taking a huge choice away from the consumer. These people are going to get pissed. The long term fallout is going to be worse than the short term complaining that we have now. Those of us complaining now will likely stay away to begin with. Those who have no clue will get shafted, without a single ounce of recourse but to either "Deal with it" or sell off the system and get another...if they aren't soured by the whole idea of gaming because of what happens. Sadly enough, I'm like DoctorXpro above. I play and buy my games much the way he does. SP, mostly always online, don't sell my games, don't borrow or lend out games. But I will not support such blatant disregard for the consumer on the part of any company...and that goes for every company who decides to do such a thing...no matter how much a fan I am of theirs. Here's something for Doctor to keep in mind. This scenario puts a unknown expiration date on both the console and the games themselves. The entirety of the game...not just whatever MP thing they may have. You believe that companies will forever and always maintain servers to support it? EA can't even support a game for more than 2 years.
Yeah he tried....He did make a little more sense this time around, yet when you read it, it still sounds confusing. It's not entirely the same between Xbox 360 and Xbox One....for starters you have to install the disc/game on "your" personal Xbox One first and has to be saved onto the Hard Drive under the account associated with "your" Xbox One. Once you've successfully done that, then you can take that disc/game and insert it into your friends Xbox One, but you must log into your account on your friends Xbox One (and again it has to be saved to the hard drive of your friends Xbox One first). Then once you leave, even if you leave the disc/game with your friend, he'll either have to buy it to play it, even though it's already installed on his Xbox One or give him access to your account which possess a security risk. Whatever happened to just insert disc into a console, signing in to your own profiles and playing a game regardless of who owns it or what account the game is under??
In a short way : Install > Register the game to your account > play When you go to your friend house : Install > Sign in to your account > play 4 > 1 ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• •••••••••••••••••••••• They say it's the same thing as if you own the disc in this generation but it's not. They are lying. So this confirms no borrow and they still haven't confirmed if you can sell games to people just stores with details coming later of how to do that. Just more complicated things to annoy gamers... 4>1 is kind of funny if you put it in a secret/hidden way. I hope articles or things like that do it xD
Whatever happened to just putting in a game and playing without profiles? Whatever happened to being customers instead of consumers? Whatever happened to gaming being about games? How about cheat codes and unlockables, buying full games, or not having to worry about how you will access those games in the future? Gaming is becoming a huge hassle.
24 hours ago i was thinking most likely none of them are going 3rd party at least this gen but after this morning my thoughts completely changed
Greed, that's all this is...just corporate greed.