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Infamous: Second Son's retcon is sloppy

"I think we all know what was racing through the minds of us Infamous fans when Infamous: Second Son was announced for the PS4. "How exactly does this guys have super powers?"

It was a fair question, seeing as one of the endings to Infamous 2 resulted in the the complete eradication of all conduits (the folks with super powers) on the planet. At that point, we were eagerly anticipating what rabbit Sucker punch would pull out of their hat as an explanation. Perhaps some new experiment or device would come along and bestow superpowers to select people. Perhaps Second Son would make Infamous 2's evil ending canon and just work off of that. Or maybe aliens. Or radioactive corn flakes, or something.

However, none of those are the case. Yesterday, we got the official explanation via a GameInformer story..."

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JoGam1086d ago

Just be happy we get to play this new game of the series on the PS4.

Breadcrab1086d ago

Looking forward to a game doesn't mean you can't also discuss its problems, whatever they may be.

SoapShoes1086d ago

Yeah but how is this exactly a problem with the story? It actually happens all the time! Look at Sonic Adventure 2: Shadow dies at the end... But he was known to be saved in future games. It didn't ruin the ending to SA2 at all. It was still dramatic and sad.

Baka-akaB1086d ago

Discussing what problems ? You dont even know yet how it will be presented to you IN GAME . All you guys have is some resume in an article , hardly the whole , encyclopedic and definitive picture .

DragonKnight1086d ago

What I'm curious about though is, considering that Cole was probably the most powerful conduit in the world at the time, could it be possible that he DIDN'T in fact die since we are being led to believe that the RFI wasn't as powerful as we thought? Wouldn't it be cool for Cole to make a sudden appearance at the end of Second Son as a cliffhanger? We wouldn't even have to play as Cole in a 4th game, just have him as a story device.

I'm just a fan of Cole because I think Lightning Powers are awesome. LOL.

Conzul1086d ago

@DragonKnight
It was powerful enough to wipe out the plague, but not necessarily powerful enough to kill every Conduit.

infamousinfolite1086d ago

I'll play the game, however, because I want to see how this character, Delsin Rowe, plays out in this game but the story ah! I don't know let's see how it plays out.

1Victor1086d ago

can we at least wait till we or someone else finished the game to start talking about plots hole. THE GAME ISN'T FINISHED YET,

BattleAxe1086d ago

Go eat some bread....crab.

trenso11086d ago

Yea i agree how could more conduits be around if they were wiped out in the ending they chose to continue with. But it's interesting to think about, what if the conduit gene is recessive so when two people with a recessive gene have a kid they may get that gene which is why more conduits have been emerging, how they got their powers with out it being activated by something like the ray sphere could be explained by saying since everyone in infamous 2 who was exposed to the ray sphere either died. (Due the conduit gene) or were saved from the plague. This affected their children who had the conduit gene having it being activated at birth. This is just my random idea

TheThing1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

"Infamous: Second Son's retcon is sloppy"

"How exactly does this guys have super powers?"

whenever i see this game i think of DmC. a young adult punk with super powers who has a beef against authority and the stranglehold of urban city life, not to mention who laughs in face of danger... very original.

http://i.imgur.com/kmWzi2r....

what i find funny is that people are actually hyped over the same idea. it must be because it's exclusive, and the visuals.

dendenmooshi1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

@TheThing That's a very pessimistic way to look at it. In fact, I'm pretty sure most types of characters have been used in games. Not much is original anymore. Space Marine-badass. done. Silent save-the-world hero, done. Narcissistic charmer, done. Young punk. Done.

It's not the character that makes the game. It's the execution of the character, gameplay, story etc. A few plot holes isn't going to break the game. BTW, I believe most of the hype comes from a second son being a next addition to an already successful series.

Canary1086d ago

True enough, but it seems silly to complain about stupid writing in a Sucker Punch game. It has -never- been something they've been particularly skilled at.

morganfell1085d ago

Plenty of games had multiple endings or multiple choices and the next game in the series picked one of those choices and made it canon.

Look at Splinter Cell. Depending on the version you had a choice in Double Agent whether or not to save Irving Lambert. I saved him every time I played that game. But along comes Splinter Cell Conviction and they said, "Nah, you chose for him to die."

And I ran with that. It is the nature of games that they can't make them just for some people. These people at kaboomshark bedroom analysis are just looking for an excuse to attack the game and now they think they have found one.

Wrong.

BISHOP-BRASIL1085d ago

First, considering that the only thing separating humans and conduits is one rare gene it's perfectly plausible that conduit gene and habilities is a recessive trait, if given enough time, this mutated characteristic would naturally rise again within the human population so the presence of conduits itself is not a plothole, the timeframe (only 7 years after Infamous 2) could be.

Also, the Ray Sphere and (likely, considering they seen to be similar tech) the RFI both have limited reach and power... Nix, for instance, was enpowered in the outer blast of the Ray Sphere explosion that made Bertrand what he is, where even conduits are supposed to die (as the one in the center would suck their powers). Obviously chances are it wouldn't kill all conduits, just like it wouldn't wipe the whole plague. Now, I can see a plothole if conduits survived but the plague is gone, but no one said that, all we know from the article is that some conduit survived, SP is yet to talk about the plague, if they say it's still there it's no plothole, but a turn of events most people didn't see coming, everything Cole did would had been worthless.

But, of course, I'm assuming a lot here... Let's wait and see. There's plently of ways to make COnduits survive in the story without creating plotholes.

Novistador1085d ago

SoapShoes.. If you are comparing any games story to any Sonic game then you know you are in trouble.

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 1085d ago
cannon88001086d ago

I just came home and was a little bit tired, and when i read the title I seriously thought it said "Infamous: Second Son's rectum is sloppy." no joke.

Campy da Camper1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

Agreed. I'm biased however because I am not one to sit and piece a story together. I get the overall jist of a games story and pretty much let it go at that.

Metal gear is one of my favorites but I cannot tell you how many different "snakes" there are I.E. old, new, young whatever. I know there is a "big boss" but could not tell you where he came from.

I just don't care about story arcs in games. I love a good book but when I turn my console on I'm all about gameplay. I can easily tell you the bullet drop on a sniper rifle or the walking patterns of enemies and I explore every inch of a games map.

I put 200 hours into fallout NV and all I can cite you story wise is I went to Vegas and some Mr hand guy was killed by me then I killed these Roman looking guys and some robot followed me everywhere I went.

Tony-Red-Grave1086d ago

big boss=naked snake
solid snake is a clone
liquid snake is solids "twin" also a clone
solidus is a PERFECT clone. not that complicated trolol XD

saint_seya1086d ago

Im with u #i like to have some story, yet i care more to that game in particular, i don care about plot holes or such, if i want that i go for a movie XD

Campy da Camper1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

@tony. I'm not trolling at all. I love metal gear but holy cow the story is complicated. People were debating about how David hayter can't to the voice for mgs5 cause soon old snake meets new snake then one is a clone so how can their dad have the same voice?. I'm just like herp derp where's my box to crawl around in. I LOVE metal gear but I admit it I skip through the cut scenes. Its all about just playing one of the greatest stealth action activecamo third person shooters.

wolokowoh1085d ago

@Campy da Camper If you skip through the cutscenes, that is why you don't get. Old Snake would not meet New Snake or any of that BS in Ground Zeroes/MGS5 we know this because Solid Snake(the clone) is Old Snake and Solid Snake has meet Big Boss several times. Even with Solid Snake's advanced aging(which got much worse in 2007), he would not old enough to meet Big Boss in Ground Zeroes when has literally 3 years old. There would not be a conflict of interest for David Hayter who has voiced Big Boss in the past.

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showtimefolks1086d ago

So the game isn't out we don't know he story so chill out

Also same people would be mad if sucker punch made infamous 3 with cole and now that we are getting a new hero in a new world why are we questioning something we know very little about

3 infamous games and 3 different worlds
Most game series trilogies or throughout the story world remains the same

Sucker punch are so under rated, infamous second son is my reason for buying ps4 at launch

FamilyGuy1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

Dragon Knight basically just explained this below.

All conduits were killed but more people with the genes to become super powered were born. It even states in the game informer info the this new guys powers came about naturally, just like Cole's would have if the ray sphere hadn't sped up the process.

The gene must've laid dormant in him or his parents so they survived. Then it grew in him and others like him, coming out naturally like on xmen, and also like on xmen, caused panic, fear and a very over-bearing police force to pop up, fight them, monitor them and put them and put them in internment camps.

Kal-El-0011086d ago

Sheeple talk just conform except any ol shit. fuck being creative and making new games

T3MPL3TON 1085d ago

They should have just started a new story. You can't use either of the endings from the second game and not basically take a massive dump all over everything you've established. They clearly state that EVERY conduit would be gone. This recessive gene nonsense doesn't work. It's still a conduit. Awakened or not you still have the power. You would have died.

+ Show (6) more repliesLast reply 1085d ago
Nitrowolf21086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

Eh honestly it isn't that hard to comprehend the good ending being canon and Second Son's being possible. I mean in every single cartoon, tv show, ect ect that says "Yeah this will kill the entire race" eventually ends up being false due to survivors clinging onto their lives. I'm okay with how they are going with this.

They never said all conduits died, just reports of them dying all over the world. Who's to say that this didn't amplify some their powers to? I'm sure they'll explain this more.

Also from the wiki:
Wolfe also discovered that the inhibition of the energy could possibly WEAKEN or kill Conduits, thought of using it against entity that Kessler warned his associates about. The Ray Field Inhibitor could remove the superhuman abilities of all Conduits, though it resulted in their deaths.[1]

JohnApocalypse1086d ago

Didn't Cole and the asian bird start as human? Same thing might happen to the new guy

Nitrowolf21086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

No they didn't, they both had the Conduit Gene, as did John White. In Infamous they explain that Lucy/John were chosen because of her Gene. Lucy just had her powers forced out.

The sphere didn't create the Conduits, only activated their powers. Alden Tate is an example of this, he has had his powers since he was a kid.

From what I understand the RFI was meant to kill all those with this gene. Either way, this is a game with a vastly large story, and like you said who's to say that this didn't activate some of them.

DragonKnight1086d ago

*SPOILER* Kessler is Cole and in his timeline he developed his powers naturally over time. Kessler travelled back in time after The Beast destroyed everything to force Cole's powers out sooner than they naturally would have so that he'd be stronger than Kessler and better able to fight The Beast. The Ray Sphere absorbs the neurological energy of any life within its blast radius and transfers that energy to the Conduit, thereby activating their dormant Conduit gene and the powers associated with that gene. This explains why it did nothing to Zeke but made Cole the most powerful Conduit around.

JP13691086d ago

DragonKnight-
Thanks for clearing that up. Even if the RFI did kill every conduit, there's still the chance that more can be born with the genes responsible. The dev team could easily explain it away as a genetic mutation without any kind of conflict arising between this new storyline and established canon.

infamousinfolite1086d ago

You know what we could say the some people who have the conduit gene were very strong in the fact that they became immune to the RFI's effects.

raytraceme1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

google is your best friend here, sir.

http://en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Retroactive_ continuity

Roccetarius1086d ago

Retconning is pretty much changing up what happened previously. It happens to a lot of franchises, and some are more extreme about it.

Baka-akaB1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

retroactive continuity . A device mostly used in comics (or for games in stuff like Metal gear) when past event or history is altered to fit and accomodate newer events and sequels .

Seems hardly to be the case imo . We just used to have a choice in ending and the sequel obviously would pick one as canon .

As for the part that seem to not fit , why not just what for the game before deciding it doesnt ? Of course they werent going to tell everything in a magazine .

People act as if retconning is necessarily a bad thing in the first place . Without a retcon Stargte SF1 would never happens as the movie Stargate's story went full circle and only allowed pointless prequels .

Donnieboi1086d ago

I can tell from your avatar that this is a topic that u hold close to your heart. Lol.

admiralvic1086d ago

Basically it's the concept that previously stated, shown or implied (rarely this last one) is altered in order to make something work. While most things plan with the future in mind, this is a very common occurrence in manga series and in some cases are pretty messy (see Hokuto no Ken 2 or Naruto).

With this being said, there is a lot of ways this can go, though I think undercutting the ending isn't the way to go. Not only is it bad story telling (since it diminishes Cole's sacrifice), there is a lot of other ways they could have taken it. I would have much rather seen an alternate version of Cole or a different time line where things played out differently, than simply finding out that not everyone died from the effect. Ideally it will get better as we learn more, but going off how the whole beast thing turned out, I don't have high hopes.

+ Show (2) more repliesLast reply 1086d ago
arabiensoldier1086d ago

The fact that the ending didn't state the end of all the conduits should be enough of an explanation.

Skips1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

^^^

This...

Don't get why this is such a big deal in the first place. lol

Obviously not EVERY SINGLE CONDUIT on the entire planet died. Some of them could've been inside a nuclear bunker for all we know.

infamousinfolite1086d ago

True but how did every one know that a device was going to kill them and these people didn't even know they were conduits.
Man some of these assumptions got to make sense at least.

panbit861086d ago

^THIS!
Also since when a story so FICTIONAL has in anyway problems of going wherever the hell it wants to?! There is a guy shooting electricity with his hands for crying out loud! If they want they can say "Well there was another scientist, who was also a conduit, and a time traveller and knew what was coming and built a shield and saved some conduits!!!" Come on! Just enjoy and support! Don't get caught up in the details!

Hydralysk1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

Not to be passing judgement on a retcon before I've seen how it's handled, but that's a terrible reason to defend it. The fact that the game didn't explicitly state all conduits were killed doesn't mean it wasn't implied. The ending shows conduits all over the world keeling over from a weapon designed to kill all conduits, and while it doesn't explicitly say it killed ALL conduits it also gives no indication that any survived.

Let me use an example I just now made up.

1. "Mr Bad walked in, flanked by two guards with weapons. Upon seeing that I was unarmed, he proceeded to rant about his superiority. I then picked up the gun on the ground and shot him and his goons."

2. "Mr Bad walked in, flanked by two guards with weapons. I was unarmed but from the way he started his superiority rant it seemed he couldn't see the pistol lying on the ground behind me. I then picked up the gun on the ground and shot him and his goons"

In #1 I never specifically state that there are no weapons on the ground, only that the character is currently unarmed, but the way the story (I use that in the loosest terms possible) is told it feels like an ass pull when he picks up a weapon from the ground since it was at least implied there were no weapons available.

In #2 I let the audience know that there is a weapon there BEFORE I use it, so when my character picks up the gun the actions and outcomes are in line with what the audience knows about the situation.

If Infamous 2 had even a line at the end going "I sometimes wonder if the RFI didn't miss any conduits." They would've had something to base it off of, but they way they wrote it, simply saying "Yeah but some survived" after the fact implies this wasn't planned ahead of time.

None of this implies Infamous will be a bad game or have a bad story, but this definitely doesn't seem like a smooth transition into a new Infamous storyline.

Redempteur1086d ago (Edited 1086d ago )

There isn't even a need for complicated retcon.

Just say that the sphere was damaged ( it was in the game ) and zeke didn't repair it properly.
So that way some conduits would have survived.

Or just say that some conduits weren't affected permanently by the change ( like Cole and the lighting at the end of the good path )

There are numerous paths they could take to make second son cannon without changing anything in infamous 2 narrative.

Y_51501085d ago (Edited 1085d ago )

The RFI was like Hand sanitizer. It only kills 99.99% of all conduits.

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ceballos77mx1086d ago

If you're a comic fan then you shouldn't be complaining, how many times countless heroes die and come back from the dead.