Default Prime's Alex Carlson examines the flawed and ambiguous nature of Gamerscore and why Microsoft's next console should shutter it for good.
I don't think they should scrap them, just give them better structure, like PS Trophies.
Yep.Trophies are just so much more satisfying. Bronze, silver, gold and the coveted platinums, each adding their own value to your exp to 'level up' vs ..numbers. It's a pretty archaic system.Not just microsoft either.Steam really needs to get with the times as well.
I like trophies better however I think Sony should add to the system. Make like a next gen trophy system.
its achievements... beside that there isnt much left, they should make it more rewarding like the one is splosion man and ms splosion man and the one in halo, steam should do the same.
Always was a huge fan of achievements since the 360 launched. It's been an huge part of the 360 and IMO it would be stupid to scrap them. If MS is smart they will let 360 gamers continue them through next gen. But I'm sure they realize the backlash from hardcore 360 gamers if they did. Evil
@evil dead I think you are misunderstanding what they mean? Maybe the should have revamped. If you look at a person's trophies you are instantly able to get a sense of a persons skill level in games because they have 4 tiers. Its harder too do that with achievements because its just a number.
Well I think next gen won't compatible with this gen so I think for MS and Sony they should allow current gen awards to be displayed and carried over, but revamp next gen achievements and trophies. I would like to see more awards from earning them. I do like MS is also pushing for dynamic adding of achievements. Uncharted 3 did this with their updates by adding those extra fun trophies that don't take away from the core Platinum. I am hoping for those, so games can have weekly challenges and such. @Evil, Bud you got to lighten up. A little criticism towards MS means people care and want to see them improve. You don't have to go full defense all the time. MS has been doing this just about 10 years plus, Sony almost 18 years, and others near 30-35 now. Gaming didn't begin with the Xbox and you got to realize it.
Speaking as someone who grew up with the NES and Arcades and such, Gamerscore is kind of a refreshing throwback to the high score days of old, but it's very poorly implemented. The appeal of trophies is that they appear to be contributing to something. Even if what they are contributing to doesn't really matter or have any impact on anything. With gamerscore, it's just a generic number. If Gamerscore truly acted like a high score, it might be more appealing. Honestly, I think the amount of "hardcore 360 gamers" that actually care about the basic number aren't as many as some would have us believe. Gamerscore doesn't even showcase any kind of skill or effort, because it can easily represent just playing a lot of games. Either way, both systems are not at all necessary to anything and if anyone thinks they are a necessity, they have terrible priorities and should stop gaming. Games shouldn't be about collection 200 random object to get that one achievement for the small boost in your score and same for trophies. They should be about the fun you're having with the game.
Not sure what they can or will do. It becomes less relevant as time goes on if it's just a number that continues to get larger. I say scrap it and start over. Offer a new unique challenge system that shows off your achievements and make it so it has more credibility and value to other gamers who view it. @DragonKnight "Gamerscore doesn't even showcase any kind of skill or effort, because it can easily represent just playing a lot of games." Actually it does if you look deeper into what they unlocked. It's up to the publisher to decide the value and what achievements are given out. Trophies at first glance have the same problem. A gold trophy in one game could be much harder to get in another. There isn't any real consistency there either on skill or effort. Getting a 1000/1000 is the same as getting all the Trophies.
I agree with evil dead. Plus I like how if I'm at 800 or900ish I can just stop and play something else like I did in crysis 3....around 840 I just said eh my time is more valuable then that last 100 something points. I got 15 platinums and I'll tell u honestly they ruin lives. All the fights I had with my wife and all the sleep I lost trying to get those last 2 or 3 bronze trophies that were extremely hard, annoying or wouldn't pop. I had to work the next day mind you, and I'd be up like a mad man searching for 350 blastshards. I do hope they get rid of the useless level system and just put the number of platinums then a slash then total trophy number next to our gamer id's this time. Like lpanaflex78 15/2375. See much better. Also they need to synce trophies like achievement points. It shouldn't take 5-10 minutes to compare trophies to some stranger, if I'm playing call of duty and I wanna see what games dickwad92 played I wanna do it quick like on Xbox and be in and out before the next match starts.
I like it being different than PS. I love trophies but I have to have the plat. So, if its a game I may not plat, I get it for xbox if all else is equal. But there is an obvious solution. Have one gamerscore but allow it to have different categories. This way, for those who want to know, they can dig further to see more info. Also I just heard on IGN that on next gen, Sony and MS will have the ability, or developers will, to add trophies at any time. How about we get achievements and down the road based on how hard they are or how many ppl have obtained it, u get a multiplier that increases overall score. That way your level or gamerscore will directly reflect how good u r. Take how many ppl play a certain game and how many actually get a particulartrophy and u will know how difficult is. Yes I know there are some problems but it could work especially if u involve other gamers rating them or something.
Trueachievements website does that
Or how bout MS innovates the structure that's unique to them, instead of making it like Sony's. We don't want copy cats now. And Sony fanboys saying "we had it first". EDIT: This is an idea I've been thinking of for while. I was think MS had different servers within their infrastructure. That allows users to switch between The core achievement and gamerscore system and other being for modding and "influencing" system but with out gamerscore and achievement. That would be the coolest thing ever imo. 1 tailor for achievements and GS and the other for the modding community, but it'll never happen though.
Explain the modding part.. sounds different. Secondly, I believe If there were no achievements there may never of been trophies. Copying happens. Trophies are an evolution of achievements. No loss of face if ms implemented a semi similar version. At evil, nothing wrong with a revamp dude. A number doesn't paint a better picture than a tiered system. Ease of use and accessibility was always something live 'preferrers' said they liked... *preferrers should be a real word*
Trophies are just a rip off lol let gamerscore alone, i dont care about it but its a good thing to have.
Trophies are a rip off, but also an improvement. Trophies and numbers versus Numbers. I think both are **** anyway. I don't want bragging rights myself/proof of being a loser. There will be alot here who try and disagree that Sony only put in trophies because MS had achievements. Psn was basically taking all of the Xboxs(including gold) features and playing catch up for years. All that is left is cross game chat.
Trophies and levels* vs. numbers. I go for platinums now that they're there, but at times it feels like work instead of fun, but it's also nice to have that extra challenge and get more out of the games and add to replay value. The only addition I want to see with trophies is the ability to delete or hide games you don't want on your trophy list. Games you didn't like, don't feel like going back to, just wanted to try out, etc.
Ratchet & Clank had "Achievements" on the PS2, so I don't think anyone stole the idea.
I like my Gamerscore thank you very much.
Only on N4G would three people disagree with someone simply saying they like something,...
Who really cares how many points you get for certain achievements ? I have a love hate feeling towards achievements. I think they are a good idea but most achievements are not fun to achieve, most of them are boring, especially online ones. I would love it if online achievements were removed.
I don't think there's any way to get online achievements once the games that have them are taken offline.
Depends what the task entails. Sometimes the "online" achievements can be done with splitscreen (at least with trophies), though if it requires online to do... then no.
Anybody remembers Ghost Recon Future Soldier online trophies/Achievments?? One of the most boring and hard trophies i ever tried to get, and failed
Me too but they're put there so u don't sell the game
I think you should be able to use your gamer score to buy Xbox live games with or any other media you can get threw live.
As great and logical as that sounds for gamers, Microsoft would lose a ton of money on that unless the exchange rate was something bizarrely unfair...like 10000 Gamerscore Points equals 40 Microsoft Store points.
Sony is restricted to 4 tiers with their trophies (bronze, silver, gold, plat). 360 can have an achievement worth 10, another one 20, 50, 100, 200, 5 etc etc. Not saying one is better than the other, but people saying 360 is restricted to numbers is a bit stupid.
But aren't your gamerscore tied into your Xbox live subscription? Once you stop paying for Xbox live don't your gamerscore start over. Wow a disagree for a question.
Welcome to N4G, where being slightly incorrect or having an opinion will get you many disagrees. To answer your question - no, it's not tied into your XBL subscription. I think you have mistaken gamerscore for tenure, which is the little number on your profile which tells you (or others, not sure if others see it) how many years you have been a paying Xbox LIVE member for.
"Once you stop paying for Xbox live don't your gamerscore start over. " no. you still have a gamerscore with the free, silver account. and if you let your gold subscription run out, you don't lose any of your gamerscore.
Because your question is a retarded one. WHere the f#$$#k did you hear the gamer score is tied to being gold. Pathetic attempt at subtle trolling.
Thanks Buzz7s, it seems everything is considered trolling whether it actually a troll comment or not! Especially if the one making the accusation is a model citizen of n4g! Lol.
They also fail to mention that if you look at someones gamerscore for a particular game, it shows how close you are to maxing it out, the individual achievements, the description of said achievements, etc. I found trophies to be uninspired and dull.
Of course you found trophies to be uninspired and dull, because you can't deal with any sort of fact that Sony took something and did a better job than MS did. And I'll bring the facts if you don't believe me. Trophies do exactly what Achievements do on a basic level, and how you described. If you look at someone's Trophy score, it shows how close you are to maxing out particular games, the individual trophies and the description of said trophies. Not only this but Sony's trophy system is inspired by RPG leveling system, so based on how many points a trophy is worth, when you reach a certain score, it levels you up. So in that sense you actually get more fulfillment from getting a high score rather than it be just a number that keeps on getting bigger and that's it. As far as Trophies vs Achievements goes as skill indication, all you have to do is look at someone who's got more gold and platinum trophies than bronze, and INSTANTLY you know they are a skilled player as those trophies are harder to obtain. There's nothing that compares to this on Xbox. So yeah, "uninspired and dull", perhaps you need to look closer to home mate.
Brain cells used to think up this argument: 1
Ive been having this idea for a while: Ms should reward players msp per a % of gamer score, like 25% out of 100 g_score= 25 ms points. And a 25% bonus for gold users,so 50% total.
If you are unhappy with the numbers and how they add up, go and use TrueAchievements. I like their system a lot more than what values Microsoft and/or developers have given Xbox gamers.
I don't really care for the gamer score but I love that sound achievements make when u unlock them. I never really got into trophies. Honestly I'm glad both systems have them and can't see gaming without them. (Looking at you Wii u!!)
i can say the same thing with siny"s trophy unclock sound,never get tire of hearing them http://youtu.be/zPIZcQsBVik P.S: you can hear achievement sound here http://youtu.be/fDRVw8FMGLY but sad that nintendo don't have any
Lol thx now only if I could set the achievement sound as my ring tone
But isn't the achievement sound the same sound as when you get a message or someone logs in on Xbox live anyways?
Why? It's like a meta-game within your game. You're just sitting there, trying to get the highest score possible. Nothing wrong with achievements. I don't particularly care for them, but there is definite appeal there.
The only people who are crying are bunch of n00bs who dont have a decent gaming score. MS should continue with the same method and not follow the crappy ps system. I'd rather do 1000 for a game then do some stupid bronze or silver or whatever hell trophy.
Wow...lighten up. Why so defensive. You shoot down a guy for asking a question and here imply anybody who questions gs doesn't have a good score or is part of the evil SDF.... you then call trophies crap even though they're based off achievements.....angry, angry sak, who cut you up on route home;)
lol good luck. i don't really care about the score all that much but there is something satisfying about seeing it rise
Agreed why bunch of SDF concerned about Xbox gamer score when initially Sony didn't even have anything at all in the beginning then their half baked attempt at copying the gamer score.
I like achievements they give games extra replay value and are basically like added missions. I think the current format is fine but I wish there were actual rewards for getting them, such as ms points or something of that nature.
Nothing in the article says anything about removing achievements.
well achievements and gamerscore kind of go hand in hand.you have a gamerscore because you complete achievements.
sony fans blabary, blalblalblalbla sony this sony that, blablalblalblalba
Be great if they set it up where you can get things like gamer pics/avatar gear/backgrounds, with how much gamer score you have, like for every 5000 you can unlock 1 one of those items I mentioned, pick it from the store... because I mean who actually buys that stuff?
i like trophies. best thing sony made better than the box
I'd be very very suprised if gamerscore were to be revamped. Gamerscore is accessible and simple, that's why they chose it- they almost certainly went through various iterations and almost certainly toyed with a tiered system like Sony's trophies (it isn't exactly groundbreaking...). The simplicity of gamerscore is the key argument of both proponents and opponents. Both systems have their advantages and disadvantages and both companies will stick with their existing systems.
No thanks, I love my Gamerscore and Achievements. Microsoft was smart to implement them from the start so that every game since launch supports them, it's very structured and I enjoy that. Considering I'm closing in on 100k, I'd be pissed if they stopped it. Luckily I know that'll never happen because when Microsoft created the 360 they said they were creating an ecosystem that would carry on into future generations.
I don't know what it is? But when I get a trophy I don't even care. It's just a lame sound. When I get an achievement I stop hit the guide button and read the achievement. I don't know why one means more to me than the other and I could play the same game on the ps3/Xbox. Funny because overall I check my % of trophies and my over all gamer score
hey am with u on removing online achievements all together ...there are some games u don't want to play online , furthermore ppl play online to have fun not to primarily chase achievements ....I love modern warfare for having all achievements offline/ campaign. and big ups to devs like infinity ward who needs no achievement motivators to get ppl to play their games online.... and finally I think that it is unreasonable to have online achievements that u cant get in offline mode(there are some games that u can the same achievement offline or online) ....everybody is not a multiplayer kinda guy....and even though their system are connected they just are not interested,...or the ppl who has no interest or no ability to connect their system online...it's really unfair they can't get 1000 for a game they spend the same exact money to purchase , only to be limited to 600 points cause 400 is online....and to add insult to injury DLC now makes my gamerscore that was completed with a 1000 now 1200 and the game is no longer a completed game for me......what???????? are u serious ???? online achievements are bad enough to one I need DLC content to show completion of I game I like.....no way ...it's really getting out of control....achievements used to be fun and all but now it's just devs trying to get ppl to invest time and money into their up
i personally love the achievment system! it makes me get the most out of my games and is proof that i have finished the game on the hardest level etc.
Sony fans at first cried achievements are lame and stupid until Sony introduced their poor attempt to emulate the achievements system with trophies. Now Sony fans love trophies and claim its better than achievements the exact system Sony tried to copy. When Sony was hacked the trophy system was inundated with hacks to improve scores. This basically destroyed any integrity that the trophy system had to begin with. No matter what happens Sony fan boys spin it positive for their console and this site seems to reward these lunatics for their lies and spins on the truth.
With your comment, I can confirm that you clearly did not read this article. If you actually read the article, you'd notice two important things: 1. There is zero mentioning of Sony or their trophy system in this article. The only mention of the word "trophies" in the article was a reference to Super Smash Brothers Melee. This article is focused solely on Microsoft and their use of Gamerscore. 2. This article is about the Gamerscore aspect and how it should be removed next generation. It DOES NOT state that the entire Achievements system should be removed. If you're going to make such misinformed claims and start crying "fanboy" to this site and its readers, don't bother those who are making educated and interesting discussion on this topic. Take it elsewhere, please.
I love gamerscore - it gives me replay value for games that sometimes don't have it. Plus you know the system is good if Sony had to copy it immediately, faced backlash, and then introduced it later.
I don't want them to get rid of achievements. I just want to start over next gen. I don't want gamerscore to carry over. New system, new score.
Trophies and achievements are fascist! They are a means by which the developer controls how the gamer plays his/her game. Perhaps I don't want to kill 100 monsters w/ weapon A. Perhaps I prefer weapon C and want to kill all 50k monsters with that. Why should player A who uses all weapons be rewarded? I cry foul on trophies. Letting every gamer experience their own way and no one getting anything extra is more democratic. We all paid the same money for the game. Well PS users do anyway. We don't spend extra using our internet.
Interesting how so much of this conversation quickly devolved into Achievements vs Trophies, whereas the article discusses neither.
I had to stop reading because its such a dumb idea. lets stop something that a lot of people like and it doesn't negatively effect anyone who doesn't like it or care about them. at minimum achievements give a reason to replay something and/or try different things. sounds like the scrub is mad they don't have a higher Gamerscore so they want everyone's wiped out. typical lame journalist. do people really like trophies better? I could care less about ps3 trophies because I will always see it as a 2nd rate rip off of achievements. i will go for achievements. ps3 trophies also don't tell you anything about skill. some games are easy to 100% and get gold trophies and other are hard. again it comes down how hard the dev's make it. same with the xbox. and for the person crying about not wanting to kill 100 monsters a certain way. its simple THEN DONT. it in no way effects you playing the game and they are completely optional. some people do like extra challenges/things to do. your one of those entitled whining bitches who want everything given to you.
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