850°
Submitted by ZodTheRipper 448d ago | article

What happens when pirates play a game development simulator and then go bankrupt because of piracy?

Greenheartgames: When we released our very first game, Game Dev Tycoon (for Mac, Windows and Linux) yesterday, we did something unusual and as far as I know unique. We released a cracked version of the game ourselves, minutes after opening our Store. (Dev, Game Dev Tycoon, Industry, PC)

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forcefullpower  +   448d ago
This is what a lot of Genuine buyers are fed up with inserting DRM just for the game to hacked and easier to play for the pirates than the genuine consumers.

I still remember to this day buying games and still having to go to game copy world to get the no CD crack.
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Kurylo3d  +   448d ago
sadly, there are too many people who make the excuse" I wouldnt have bought it anyway".... well if u were never going to buy it, why do u feel u deserve to play it free?

You dont ride a rollercoaster and then say i dont feel like spending my money on a ticket for the ride now that its over.

This is pretty much why we need a platform like valve steam to connect to and verify the copy is legit before you start playing. Sad truth.
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SgtFuzzy-T  +   448d ago
you must have read the article the that was posted on here this morning ;)
Hydralysk  +   448d ago
Piracy is going to happen no matter what. I've got nothing against Steam but having to connect and verify that you own a game still screws anyone without a constant internet connection.

Steam has an Offline mode, but really not many games of mine have worked when I've tried using it.

I'd much rather companies went with the GOG route, no DRM at all, you buy the game, and you can make as many backups as you want. You can't match pirates in terms of price, nothing's going to compete with free, so you might as well match them in terms of convenience.
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kostchtchie_  +   448d ago
Why what does steam do? steam don't do shit, all steam games are cracked, only thing steam does is force legit gamers make an account to install there bought game

As for DRM it hurts none but LEGIT GAMERS, developers know this yet they still use it, why is that?

if that game can be cracked and pirated anyway why still use DRM?, because they want that shit in there games that is why

same reason they get away with selling chopped down games with DLC on day one, it used be you unlock stuff after completing your games, now we have to pay for it

developers have become greedier and gamers have become stingier, there is fine balance there i believe
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nukeitall  +   448d ago
@kostchtchie_:

"As for DRM it hurts none but LEGIT GAMERS, developers know this yet they still use it, why is that?"

That isn't entirely true. The fact of the matter is that it prevents casual copying, between friends that has little technical skills or don't want the risk of getting viruses downloading things online.

It does minimize it at least "minimally", and is pretty much the only tool the game developer has to fight piracy.

I think the best way to get stamp out piracy is to give the consumer something so compelling they will be willing to be "always online" to get it i.e. online multiplayer games or something similar. For instance, super awesome stats or something.

Piracy will always exist, but I love how game devs will leak their own game and confuse the pirate. If you make it such a hassle to pirate and at the same time make it easy to purchase, you might have a winner!
nypifisel  +   448d ago
So just because gamers are more educated today and won't buy games without a certainty that they like it they don't deserve to play it? It's a farce for publishers/developers to profit from games that honestly don't really appeal to that many people but before they bought it anyway cause there were far less likely they'd know whether it would be a game for them or not.

A pirated copy is not a lost sale, it could be a future customer however if they liked what they downloaded. All the great games always turn huge profit, with the game being easy to pirate and all. Consumers are willing to pay for a good product - the service is a lot better for a bought game than a pirated one, with automated updates, no fiddling etc etc, consumers are willing to pay for this if the product is good enough.
SgtFuzzy-T  +   448d ago
as for steam I never think of steam as a DRM- I think of it more as a cataloguing system. i Just need to activate it, then I can play and bring my games anywhere I want. Offline mode works great for me when I'm using my laptop on travels. and when I'm visiting friends for the weekend I can load my games onto their computers and we can get some CS going on

Great system
aliengmr  +   448d ago
The "wouldn't have purchased the game anyway" argument comes from the idea of what amount of sales are actually lost because of piracy.

There are a certain group of people who only pirate games and never buy them, so whats been lost? Whether they played it or not is irrelevant.

I'm not making a case for piracy, but its a very convoluted issue when you get into it.

Piracy exists and will always exist. There is nothing that will stop it.

@kostchtchie_

Games are getting more and more expensive to produce, thus require more and more sales. Its more about wasting money on development than greed.
SilentNegotiator  +   448d ago
I agreed with everything you said until you claimed that we "need" Steam DRM. While I agree that people don't deserve to pirate a game because they wouldn't have paid anyway, restricting the legitimate users isn't the way to fix the problem.

I mean, you're aware piracy happens on PC, too, regardless of Steam, right? In fact, publishers seems infinitely more afraid of piracy on PC than any other system.
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ChronoJoe  +   448d ago
Steam isn't at all effective DRM Kuryo, there are cracked copies of every game on steam. As in, the Steam versions of them, you can even run them through steam itself, whilst online.

DRM or forcing closed platforms into open ones (ie steam on linux) aren't answers to the piracy problem. Developers should adopt new business models and develop games more suited to these less secure platforms. F2P and Online only models are good examples.
fatstarr  +   448d ago
I know plenty of people that pirate to try and pay if its not shit tier.

IMO if they werent gonna buy it its the same thing as pirating it because the company wouldnt have gotten the money in the first place. in piracy's case it can advertise and some people will donate directly to the company to cut out the middle man in their profits.
JackBNimble  +   448d ago
@ Hydralysk

You're full of it... I can always play any game in offline mode on steam if the game doesn't require an online connection.
yess  +   448d ago
aliengmr@

"There are a certain group of people who only pirate games and never buy them, so whats been lost? Whether they played it or not is irrelevant."

Wrong, it is relevant, cause you play the game to entertain your self, even though you don't like it.

It's like, you go to a car dealer and steal a car, you then use it to get from A to B for several days even though you don't like the car, you then take the car apart and put it in the trash bin, cause in your opinion, it's just a copy and you wouldn't have bought it anyway, but you still used the car to get from A to B.

Point is, it's not the actual game you want, it's the entertainment in the game, with the car it's the mean of transportation, the game and the car itself are just the container of entertainment and transportation.
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nix  +   448d ago
@up somewhere:

i bought couple of games from steam/apple store for macbook and my friend just copied those files to his macbook and was able to play.

i was like 'wtf'.
steve30x  +   447d ago
Sadly some developers see every single pirated copy of their game as a lost sale which isnt true and sadly some developers couldnt be bothered giving us a demo making the sad excuse that we wont download the demo. I bet if theres a demo for a game and the demo makes the game look good then the piracy of said game will be reduced a bit. Its not the complete cure for piracy but it will help.

Ive bought a few games based on the demos of the games but with the past few years we see 1 out of 50 games with a PC demo now a days.
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FriedGoat  +   447d ago
It would be good if the pirated version of the game actually showed reflected the torrent stats to sales. It would show that the game still makes a profit. People might say "oh yeah all pirates say they wouldn't buy it" its true... they wouldn't, even if a crack isn't available.
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ConRadOdin   447d ago | Spam
turgore  +   447d ago
I would buy some games if they are cheap enough. For example, I had little interest in some games, but gave them a try because they were cheap or free on PS+.
If they want sales, they should stop being greedy and stop charging full price for some games that don't deserve it.
Hayabusa 117  +   447d ago
The problem isn't piracy, the problem is money. All information should be free and shared freely.
cgoodno  +   447d ago
***Piracy is going to happen no matter what. I've got nothing against Steam but having to connect and verify that you own a game still screws anyone without a constant internet connection. ***

You only need to connect to verify the purchase, you don't have to maintain an Internet connection. You would only have to do this once a week.

I really hate people who don't understand this concept with Steam. It never requires a constant Internet connection, only for verification of the game on a weekly basis.
IAmLee  +   447d ago
The answer is simple.. they'd have no money.
Baka-akaB  +   448d ago
Truth be told pirates will always steal even games without protections .

But does adding protection and drm stop them ? Nope , it doesnt even slow then down , it only annoy legitimate users , and worse give a sense of entitlement , vengeance and "justice" to many pirates .

They feel vindicated galvanised and legitimized in the process .

When your game got none of that crap , they are left with empty excuses or the simple truth that they are scums and thieves .

The less excuses given to customers to pirate the better . Wich means no region locking , no abuse of dlc , no drm , no constant online unless truly fitting a game .

PS : lol at stealth disagree . If it wasnt true good devs like CD Red Projekt would sell more copies and meet an even bigger and more deserved success
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Transporter47  +   448d ago
You say taht but, trust me everybody has pirated something in their life, whether its music, a movie, a game. Piracy doesn't make a company go bankrupt if it did no music artist would profit. Regardless I'm guilty of pirating a few games before but that doesn't make me a scum, I have because i can't afford every single game that i want to get.
WeAreLegion  +   448d ago
I take it you aren't in the music industry?
Baka-akaB  +   448d ago
I know everyone did , i have too , of course i'm no saint . But there is only so much excuses one can hide behind once those issues are removed .

Would i have any excuse left from say pirating a 3ds or wii u game if region locking is gone ? Not really ... means i could finally import an atlus game without waiting a whole year and overpricing .

in the mean time i'll admit i'd have no qualm hacking my region locked console or cracking a game always online for no reason .

Why even give such incentive and "justifications" to gamers ? Just leave them with their own guilt and conscience .
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Ilovetheps4  +   448d ago
Here is why I think comparing this to the music industry is a bad analogy. The music industry has concerts and things like that to make money off of. I am one of the few people that buy my music still, but I like having a physical CD with the boxart and the coverslip with the lyrics in it. But, what I'm saying is that musicians make majority of their money from concerts, appearances at events, and many other ways. Game developers make their money almost strictly off of game sales, but I don't think DRM is the answer to this problem.

Regardless, I am against piracy of any kind. It doesn't help anyone in any ways. If you can't afford a game, wait until it drops in price some and then buy it. You don't always have to get a game on day one.
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SilentNegotiator  +   448d ago
Where do high horse riders get off claiming that "everyone pirates"?

What gives you the right to assume that everyone is as criminal as yourself?
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HappyGaming  +   448d ago
That is ridiculously ignorant!
" Piracy doesn't make a company go bankrupt if it did no music artist would profit."

Piracy makes thousands of artists bankrupt. Of course the mainstream music starts who get paid millions for concerts wont go bankrupt even if we still 10 times what they get by pirating but small middle class artists and independent developers who probably could have made $100,000 a year can't make it in the music industry because we steal 90% of their income so they have to find alternative fields to work in.

You might be poor and think its ok to pirate because you are stealing from people who have millions but piracy completely destroys the little men like us who are trying to make a living through digital distribution of software and media.

There is no excuse. Most of us do it to an extent but lets at least understand what stealing is. Taking something from someone who has worked for it because you can!
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SlapHappyJesus  +   448d ago
"Regardless I'm guilty of pirating a few games before but that doesn't make me a scum, I have because i can't afford every single game that i want to get."

Not calling you scum but, taken in that context, you do seem to feel you are entitled to every game you want to play, despite not having the funds that others pay to enjoy the same privilege.
ZombieNinjaPanda  +   448d ago
"Criminal"

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
FragMnTagM  +   448d ago
I think at least some of the pirating would subside if PC games started releasing more demos. The demos for PC are near non-existent.

XBL, as well as PSN have a ton of demos for games and I buy a lot more games because of being able to try before buying. If I like the demo on the console and it is on the PC, I will get the PC version though.
SilentNegotiator  +   448d ago
@ZombieNinjaPanda

Fine by me. Me and SlapHappyJesus here aren't pirates. He might not cast stones being Jesus and all, but I will.

Pirates are criminals and the majority of people are not pirates. Telling yourself that everyone else is a pirate will not make it true.
aLucidMind  +   448d ago
They'll steal regardless of price as well. I remember a company did an experiment by pricing their game for one penny and it still got pirated. Companies need to ensure customer satisfaction and focus on giving us more bang for out buck, because the lack of one or the other will cause the risk of stolen copies to increase.
Legion21  +   448d ago
How much bang is necessary to justify one penny? lol
aLucidMind  +   447d ago
The point there is that some people will steal, no matter what the cost of the item is. So the developers and producers need to focus on incentives for us not to steal rather than trying to outright punish those who do. The best way is to ensure that $60 we pay is very much worth it.
Kurylo3d  +   448d ago
I agreed with the first half of your statement, but saying have no DRM at all in anyway.. well thats just stupid. I remember when alls you had to do was use a cd burnder and u could copy the legit version of a game. Cant do that now thankfully, but u still can download games easier.

Drm in some form is a necessity at this point. I truely beleive the best way to make your money back is 1.)multiplayer so they are forced to connect to yourservers. 2.) lots of DLC... so they need a legit version of your game to get it. 3.) maybe mmo type of constnat pay to play.. 4.) in game advertising so even if they are playing on a stolen copy of the game you can somehow still make money off the advertisements in game... sort of the point of a lot of free to play games.

Ubisoft went overboard with DRM to the point where i didnt even want to play their games. Connecting to several things at once and having 8 accounts to play 1 game is just stupid. And totally makes the game easier to steal then to play legit.
Baka-akaB  +   448d ago
Those drm are always bypassed , so they are quasi not existent forthose pirating a game . So no it makes no difference if they are included or not .

A pc game selling badly wont start selling well with a drm . That's just show and mirrors , smokes for investors and shareholders .

Nothing compete with free , that's motivation enough for enough people to deal with any hassle . The psp was one of the most annoying system to pirate and deal with , between constant firmwares , updates prompts from games , and constantly revised motherboards and hardware .

Yet it stopped nothing . But as a consumers given grievance by useless features , now i'd be stopped and tempted to either pirate or give up on such machine . You just can't keep aggravating your paid customers , without reaching someday a breaking point
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Kurylo3d  +   448d ago
by your logic you should put your wallet on the dashboard of your car with a 100 dollar bill sticking out, and not bother locking the car door. Yes if you lock the door the thieves that dont care will probably break the glass and take your wallet, but then again it still prevents the people who wouldnt break a window that would still take the 100 dollars. Dont make it so easy to be a victim. Not all pirates go out of their way to steal a game..

Back in the day before cd keys came around anyone and their mommas would copy cds with cd burning software... at least now its more of an effort to go online... download the bootleg versions or find a cdkey. Not everyone goes through the hassle. Which means only the people who have a wealth of knowledge on pirating .. pirate the games. NOrmal every day people will leave that alone.

Me personaly, and i dont know if this would be legal. But if i put a game out there.. i would release like 8 torrents for versions of the game that include viruses so i could kill the computers of anyone who tries to play my game illegally.. In the panic people wont know which torrents they should risk downloading. To hell with the DRM, game devs should go on the offensive and force people to format their hard drives if they try to steal a game.
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aliengmr  +   448d ago
@Kurylo3d

Flawed analogy. There is far less risk in pirating a game.

What happens when disk copy protection stops paying customers? DRM has only ever done one thing; hassle paying customers.

The games industry is starting to learn that DRM is an absolute waste of money and effort. But it's taken a while. Human beings love a challenge, a problem to solve. Turns out piracy is pretty much unsolvable without harming legit customers.

What makes it worse is the fact that you can't really get any hard data on piracy. What if someone purchased a game after pirating it? It happens. The only consistent thing about piracy is that DRM has failed every time.

And the last thing you want to do is start messing with the pirates.
SilentNegotiator  +   448d ago
Are you serious?

Why do so many people these days think that restricting law-abiding persons, with restrictions proven not to work, still insist that we're better off with those restrictions?

If it's going to be the same story (or very close) whether or not we have such restrictions, then why have them at all?

DRM, laws, etc...so many people these days think they're safer with the restrictions, no matter the facts.
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InTheLab  +   448d ago
Don't forget about not having a demo...

Doesn't matter if a dev goes through the checklist of ridiculous reasons for piracy as pirates will always create a new reason to simply take what they want.

And since someone brought it up, I have never illegally downloaded a game, movie, or music. Doing the right thing isn't as uncommon as everyone seems to believe.

If I had, I'd at least own up to at and acknowledge the scum that I am. Yeah...pirates are scum.
Linsolv  +   447d ago
Yeah, but lack of a demo is actually a pretty fair COMPLAINT, if not a good REASON.
Flavor  +   447d ago
Yeah, 'those' pirates', y'know, 'those' guys and 'they'.

Not yourself, oh heavens no.
Kran  +   448d ago
Bought this game the other day.

Got real hooked on it, even if there are some flaws in the gameplay :P
Transporter47  +   448d ago
Dumb is what it is.
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Kran  +   448d ago
Actually, genius. It stops pirates because they know the game would end up unplayable and if they REALLY want the game, they'd buy it.

That said though, suppose pirates could hack the game and take this out. :(
ZodTheRipper  +   448d ago
Of course they can and they surely will, but I think that this move was a success nonetheless :)
Gh05t  +   448d ago
Or they just get back online and get an honestly pirated game not this fake pirated game that was given by the devs.
mydyingparadiselost  +   448d ago
I would like to say there are lots of reasons to pirate a game, just not all games and especially not brand new games.
jerethdagryphon  +   448d ago
ill try a game on pc then buy it on ps3 and platinium it then its onto my shelf for ever unless its something i know ill like
haymoza  +   448d ago
The title reads as if the the pirates go bankrupt.
shadow2797  +   448d ago
They do, in the game. Because it's a Game Dev Simulator. It's amazing that so few are acknowledging the joke here. The comment section on Eurogamer was a lot better.
cikarumypon7   448d ago | Spam
Honest_gamer  +   448d ago
there has been many times ive bought a pc game only to get disconnect for a few seconds and booted to the menu of the game without the option of saving, i must say the pirated version of said games are better, i own games that i feel i have to pirate to get the full experience my internet is crap my brother if he lags on cod just turns the modem of and on every 10 minutes making me disconnect all the time making always online a no go for me
Flavor  +   447d ago
Join the 21st century.. a modem? really?
bednet  +   447d ago
yes, the thing that makes dial-up, DSL and cable internet connections work...that little box with the flashing lights...that's a modem.
Honest_gamer  +   445d ago
flavor ur a fud clearly have no idea how you receive an internet connection
bunt-custardly  +   448d ago
This story is touching and cute, but has a dark and sinister undertone. You really feel for the developer being sincere here and the joke is kinda funny but self destructive at the same time. Maybe those thousands of players whole stole the game will advertise it and make any future endeavors more profitable.
darkride66  +   448d ago
Maybe. If they last that long. But realistically, pirates aren't going to stop pirating and who are the pirates going to advertise to? Most likely other pirates.

While a pirated game doesn't automatically equal a lost sale, when someone pirates a game they're effectively removing themselves from the pool of potential, paying customers. Might not seem like a big deal, but when 95% of people would rather pirate your game, that leaves very little room for a developer to actually make a living off of, especially the small guys who can only manage to put out a game a year.

And then people complain about drm, day one dlc, micro-transactions, advertisements, etc..are the developers and publishers really to blame for trying to find alternative ways to profit off their hard work?

Of course, I'm a developer. Our last release has so far been pirated at a rate of 20 to 1, even with a free version available. People would rather pirate the full version then try the demo. That's a year of my team's life that we expect compensation for, that's being played by tens of thousands and we have yet to make more than a few hundred bucks so far.

Seriously, I don't even know how indie developers can make a living, unless they win the indie lotto and for some reason their game takes off out of the thousands that just have their products stolen and then never make another game again. We're still hanging in there, but we aren't running a charity for gamers. If people don't pay...what choice do developers have but to stop making games?

I bet you these guys won't make another game because what's the point if you can't feed your family?
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Saryk  +   448d ago
Piracy can be eliminated easily. You just need to go to page 24, paragraph 3 and enter the 8th word!
nohopeinc  +   448d ago
Sadly I did play the developers "pirate version" it was decent. Than within 24 hours the actual pirate version was up, beat it in like 6 hours, not much replay value though. I would never buy this game because they stole the game directly from Kairosoft. It is damn near a 1 for 1 replication of Game Dev Story.

I pirate every game before I buy it except for one. Sim City, and well it is terrible, thankfully got that money back. I continue to buy games that are worth my money, this game is not worth $8, Game Dev Story is, and I bought it a long time ago.
B1663r  +   448d ago
Yup.

Pretty much why I quit trying to be a game developer right there...
nohopeinc  +   448d ago
Care to explain? Developers produce a product, if customers aren't satisfied they deserve their money back. The gaming industry has made it incredibly difficult to get your money back. So easier way is to pirate the game see if it is worth the money and buy if it is good. The sad truth is there is only like 10 games a year worth anybodys money.
Gh05t  +   448d ago
Blaming thieves for the reason you quit something is a cowardly excuse.

I mean I should stop working right now because if I actually make over 2.5 million a year I will pay 40% in just federal taxes were I live.

Or I should never create anything because even with a patent people will steal my ideas and I will make less money.

Imagine the sad state of this world if everyone was a quitter like you just because someone stole something from you.
04soldier  +   448d ago
Great Read
As a new PC gamer.. Im definitely down with supporting developers with my money when I buy my videogames.. My friend however does not..

He brags at me how Tomb Raider and Bioshock torrents were available day one when I had bought my copy of Bioshock legally and Im eyeing Tomb Raider for later.

Then he asks me how come games like Injustice and the GTA V have such delayed PC releases..

I told my friend with a slight grin, Its because of people like you. You're making everyone suffer. These companies need money and by pirating their games you make them release PC versions much later with DRM or not even at all..
BattleTorn  +   448d ago
That is hilarious!!
Jirachi  +   448d ago
from my expeirence 99%pirates pirate games like pokemon games that are too big to fail.
nohopeinc  +   448d ago
If a company is creating games of quality they will profit. I still buy WoW expansions but I haven't played the game in like 4 years, I bought Starcraft 2 and played it for about 20 minutes, I bought D3 and haven't played for more than like 8 hours, I love Blizzard and I continue to support them and will until there games start to be below quality. This particular company is a shameless bunch of whiny babies. THEY STOLE THIS GAME FROM KAIROSOFT, THEY DON'T DESERVE ANYTHING FOR DOING THAT.

I buy CoD every time it releases because I enjoy the game it earns my respect, plenty of companies make shit games to cash in quickly. I don't feel bad for pirating there games, i wasn't going to buy them anyways. After buying Sim City i won't ever pay for Maxis games again, they lied up until the release, the game is a shame. I don't want to get duped that is why I pirate, if i enjoy the game I will buy it.
kevnb  +   448d ago
I think used sales are even more harmful, people are playing games and trading them in within days. There is no consequence of doing so at all either, no viruses, no possible missing features (except online passes), and you still get all the updates.
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InTheLab  +   448d ago
1m games sold = 1m potential used games over the course of months to years. That's assuming everyone that bought the game traded it in, which is unrealistic.

1 game uploaded to torrent sites= Millions of downloads within hours with no initial sale or profit of any kind.

Tell me how are used games more harmful, especially on the PC platform where it is non-existent? A PC game is what we're talking about here. A few hundred legit downloads versus over 3k illegal downloads. There is nothing worse than piracy.
Azurite  +   448d ago
The game sounds interesting but doesn't seem to be very realistic.

There's a lot of different reasons as to why high rated games sell poorly sometimes and pirating is usually not one of them.
InTheLab  +   448d ago
Pirates were giving the choice of paying a few pennies or simply pirating the games and they chose to pirate /facepalm.

Will be buying as soon as it lands on Steam. Downloading the demo now.
Gh05t  +   448d ago
Okay first of all the dev himself put the torrent up online so to call it a pirated version is just a lie. Calling anyone who downloaded a copy a pirate is also a lie. (Even if they thought they were stealing they still were not stealing anything). I get the experiment but you cant say it was stolen when it was given by the person who owns the rights.

Again I get the idea and its a crazy realization and by no means do I condone pirating but uploading your own game and watching people take it for free is not pirating. Especially since he even buffered the results by having friends help people seed it faster (More results in a quicker time than would happen naturally).

These results do not hold up in any scientific meaning which also means they should not be used as an example of a greater population.

Fun to look at but not a realistic example statistically.
sjaakiejj  +   448d ago
A survey over 3000 people is actually pretty representative of at least a very large segment of the population.
http://blog.surveymonkey.co...

Secondly, it doesn't matter who put up the illegal version of the game. Software is sold by license, not by copy, and therefore anybody who downloads and uses the product without a license is effectively stealing the product.
http://www.siia.net/index.p...

It's like saying that just because someone left their phone on the bench it isn't stealing if you take it.
steve30x  +   447d ago
3,000 people out of millions of gamers is a drop in the ocean
sjaakiejj  +   447d ago
You should really have another look at how statistics work Steve. 3000 people is representative of all gamers with an error margin of about 5%.
Warj  +   448d ago
The results of the experiment, and the multitude of comments completely missing the point of said experiment, speak volumes of our world's current understanding of value, consequence, and basic right and wrong.

Should DRM be eliminated? Yes.
Should games have demos? Yes.
Should you buy a game if you play it? Yes.
mmj  +   448d ago
Anyone who takes the side of the developers/publishers is a fool, they have done everything in their power to ride roughshod over consumer rights which has gone a long way towards increasing piracy, they do not care because the piracy boogeyman allows them to implement draconian measures to screw over the legitimate buyers who they are getting rich off.

If Piracy was as rampant as they will have us believe they would have long since quit making games, they do it still because it's hugely profitable despite their claims as to otherwise. They use things like DRM/activation/always online servers to expire games when they want you to buy their new ever so slightly different version and block second markets etc. it's all about being able to control/limit what you can do with the item they have sold to you and planned obsolescence.
#22 (Edited 448d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
sjaakiejj  +   448d ago
"they do it still because it's hugely profitable despite their claims as to otherwise."

You see.. There's one problem with that argument...

http://www.comingsoon.net/n...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/t...
http://uk.gamespot.com/news...
http://www.closinglogos.com...
http://kotaku.com/5406830/c...

Piracy certainly isn't the only problem, but it's definitely one of them.
darkride66  +   448d ago
"they have done everything in their power to ride roughshod over consumer rights..."

Yep. These two guys, two indie developers just looking to make a living have ridden roughshod over consumers rights and must be punished by having 95% of the people enjoying their game not pay them a dime.

I'm a developer. Have been for over two years now and I can say without a shadow of a doubt, piracy is exactly as rampant as they say. "They would have long since quit making games..." Exactly. The vast majority of these guys can't make a living making games. Your game could be downloaded a hundred thousand times and you may only make a couple hundred dollars for all your hard work while everyone just enjoys your game with no care about the people that made that game.

You think developers want to use DRM? Do you honestly believe that the extra effort, programming, manpower and resources that go into copy protection is something that the industry is doing just for the hell of it?

No one wants DRM, always-on, microtransactions, advertising, day one dlc...etc..etc, but when 95% of your user base would rather steal your game then pay, what are your options? Of course developers are looking for ways to protect their works and exploring alternate revenue streams. If they don't, they won't last.

We use microtransactions and advertisements in our products and I hate them. We use "free versions" as demos, but people won't even try them when they can get the full product for free. So I make choices which I feel compromise and cheapen our product. I'm not doing it because I have some evil agenda, I'm doing it because if I can't afford to feed my family at the end of the day, what's the point?

I bet these guys won't survive to make another game because the 5% of the market actually honest enough to pay for something isn't enough to support niche gamers. So thousands will enjoy the finished product while these guys fail. And then another indie will rise up and try to make a great product, and the pirates will crush them too. And the cycle repeats.

Sjaakiejj hit the nail on the head with his post as well. It's not just the indies that go silently into the night. You think these companies would be going under if even half the people that played their games bought a legitimate copy? So the industry moves towards cloud gaming, always on drm and console only versions, not because it wants to, but because it needs to evolve or die. The legitimate users who suffer shouldn't be looking at the publishers/devs to blame. Pirates are ruining it for everyone.
steve30x  +   447d ago
"You think developers want to use DRM? Do you honestly believe that the extra effort, programming, manpower and resources that go into copy protection is something that the industry is doing just for the hell of it? "

Do you not think this extra expense and man power being put into DRM is a waste because 99% of the time this DRM is cracked within a few hours.

Also as I said to you before , I dont know what your last game was and I didnt know there was a demo. Next time theres a demo for your game promote it on games sites and you will have it downloaded. Hell I didnt even play your current game. Give me a demo for it , I will try the demo and if I like your demo I will buy your game.

In my opinion they are completely wasting their time with DRM. They should stop using DRM. It doesnt really stop piracy.
#22.2.1 (Edited 447d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(2) | Report
ACEMANWISE  +   448d ago
I'd rather buy the copy but these companies stealing from me. This whole digital revolution through a service is the biggest scam of all...making consumers believe games are still for sale. It's time you become educated to the reality at hand.

The digital stores of PSN, Xbox, Steam, or any other that provides a service is selling the consumers just that...a service. Nothing more. They are serving "access", not control over your titles.

If one were to buy a physical disc right now then your purchase would include a granted license straight from the developer that allows you to play the game. No middlemen.

As for digital it's much, much different. In this case the service buys the game from the developer the same way you did, except has special permission to police it for business use. This includes their ability to make their own license and sublicense it to you.

For example, it would be like me going to Gamestop, buying Grand Theft Auto V, then opening my own digital store and offering the same game in digital form. This time, however, I will become a service and require you to follow my rules as well. If you don't I can take your account away and all the games you bought from me. Sound unfair?

Well, it is. So what I'll do is create a digital system that is designed not to be reliable without a service yet still offer you ways to keep your games. That way it will appear you are backing up the games you bought, minus the code required to activate it, and throw a disclaimer that I'm not responsible if you fail to recover your games. Then when my service ends you are left with an unreliable backup method with no flexibility or reliability to preserve your purchases. Therefore I created a scam by maintaing the illusion your digital games are every bit the same, if not superior to the game I bought down the street. Then in 10 years my game still plays while yours does not.

Is the picture becoming clearer now? If not have you ever wondered why they haven't made it clear to free the control measures from your game should they ever end their service? Shouldn't buying a digital game be worth less to buy if someone hacks or modifies the original license agreement between you and the developer you are trying to buy from? Shouldn't a modified license be considered the "used" version for the digital realm? Can someone please tell me how a digital version of a game is worth the same price as the physical copy at this point?
jetlian  +   447d ago
actually That what steam did when they wanted people to sign that no class action lawsuit. However Europe is changing its laws to make selling DLed items the same as physical
ACEMANWISE  +   445d ago
Hopefully this goes worldwide.
AKR  +   448d ago
Wow . . .
~ Don't see something like this everyday!

Good for the guys at GreenHeart to come up with a very interesting scheme. The classic "Taste of your own medicine" approach. Clever, very clever. They get to see how frustrating it is to see your entire game company prop-out because of what they're doing in the real world ~ stealing.

Yes, there are a THOUSAND AND ONE excuses as to why people pirate "I can't afford it!" "It's not available in my country" "It has excessive DRM" "I wasn't gonna buy it anyway"

. . . The justification of piracy lies on a very, very, VERY, thin grey line. It's nearly impossible in most cases to come up with a legit, sensible reason. And even if you do, try telling that to the authorities if the rare situation comes up that you're actually arrested.

In Conclusion ~ Gaming is a luxury, meant for the people who can afford it. If you can't afford it, look to something else. Doesn't matter how much you WANT a game. People slave day and night over computers programming and building those games, and dumping truck-loads of money into them, hoping that their hard work will pay off. If you had to pay the price that it takes to develop those games - You'd keel over.

So why not support it, eh? That ensures that MORE games will come in the future, and we can all be happy. The more you pirate, the more people lose their jobs and the less games we have. More DRM is implemented, and then the entire industry is in turmoil. It's a domino-effect.

Just because you want something, no matter HOW GOOD it is ~ Doesn't mean it's ENTITLED to you.
Soldierone  +   448d ago
Funny, do they also have a portion of the game that suggest locking out half the content on new games and forcing their customers to buy DLC to get the rest? Or how about raising prices, then complaining the game isn't selling? Or half arsing the next game, and wondering why no one wants to buy it? Or how about extreme DRM measures that only affect the legit users, making them angry and forcing them to not buy the game?

No? All these issues are blamed on pirates? Dang.....
MonkeyNinja  +   447d ago
You, sir, are my Hero.
aLiEnViSiToR  +   448d ago
Piracy is a lie and think long and hard how it got started in the 1st place. Also everything is free for everyone but nothing is free for a single person the sooner you all realize this the better you will live.

"Everything is permitted, nothing is true" best words ever.
LKHGFDSA  +   448d ago
I feel like this whole thing is set up. and the "user" posts on the write up are actually by Greenheart Games staff.
and IMO they're trying too hard.
ZodTheRipper  +   447d ago
I thought the comments on the blog were a bit weird. But it's not set up entirely, I submitted it because I thought it was an interesting article and I've got nothing to do with them :)
Ozmoses  +   448d ago
There has to be a way to certify the game on the disc or even a tag for digital purchases..

I mean a little embedded code in the soure should be able to ensure that the consumer has a valid copy of the game..

I can envision it being on the disc of actual physical copies and is read by the sensors or lasers when inserted in the system. And I can envision it can be authenticated through a source code that identifies with the consumers console on digital purchases.
#28 (Edited 448d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
MiloGarret  +   447d ago
The comments they refer to are clearly written by themselves to make a point, no one actually writes like that.
MuhammadJA  +   447d ago
Pirates are like a cancer. They keep spreading throughout the net. They don't care about the gaming community or the hard working devs. All they care about is getting their games for free and to hell to what happens to devs who go out of business.
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