The PlayStation 4 has been compared to a PC from the future by Quantic Dream co-CEO Guillaume de Fondaumiere.
Lol, this article would bring alot of some PC elitist(or they think they are, seeing that they know more than developers just because they built their own rig once or twice) and start a big can of whip ass. Regardless, if Sony studios make top notch games on an 8 year old hardware, believe it or not, they would make their previous games look mediocre with the way they will utilize the ps4 power. Here is hoping both systems brings good AAA exclusives so people would eventually buy both (NextBox and Ps4) and the winners are the gamers, and not the fanboys :D Cheers
Well its common sense PS4 will hardly be comparable to mid range PCs by the time it releases. Infact as of today you could build a mid range PC comparable to PS4 specs for around the same price, by the time PS4 is out things will further be in the PCs favor. By 2015 Nvidia Volta GPUs will be out. Those will be pushing 1TB/s Memory bandwidth(PS4's shared 176GB/s all of a sudden looks very piddly). At most Sony and the crew are hyping the PS4 at best. Too bad for them they dont have gimmick like they did with the Cell, hence this time around its just all talk. Whats funny is they wont even release the GPU specs. All they talk about is GDDR 5 lol. Which will be outdated 3-4 months into PS4's life as GDDR 6 should be out early 2014. @below True its all about the games. Which is where the PC platform shines. Over and above any platform. PC has hundreds of games from the current gen, let alone the previous generations. The library overall is insane with over 25 years of BC and the capability to play any console game in history (asides the PS3 and Xbox 360). Hence really consoles are no match in this territory. Yes you bought the PS3, but good luck playing any of those games on the PS4. PS4 essentially launches with a hand full of games. Now i am not saying your old console dies the moment you buy a PS4. However eventually it will. Hell even Sony may close shop on online support for it. So really the only option you may have left is buying HD remakes, or just rebuying the old console over and over.
I bought the PS3 on launch and 7 years on I'm still looking forward to its exclusives. It's all about the games.
And yet where are all the great pc games? Seriously with all this damn power you pc elitists speak of you think there would be some ground breaking game that backs it up. Where is this game cause all I hear are numbers. So have fun playing BENCH MARKS!
@highlife 90% games released today are multiplatform. PC platform covers just about covers them all and has superior versions. The only ones not making it to the PC are few exclusives from Sony. PC easily has its own exclusives to compensate for that. Its not like PS is the only one with exclusives if thats really what matters to most people on N4G.
you forgot to mention how much that volta thing would cost? i do believe i would be able to get 20 games+ a ps4 in the money that would take to build a suitable rig... and all of those "hundreds" of pc games are glitchy and buggy as they can be.not one runs without problems.. also what truly takes advantage of all that power are sub-mediocre games like crysis 3 ... while 8 yr old crappy harware gets games like Uncharted series ,last of us ,Beyond,journey,RDR,god of war,gears of war,...etc...etc..
@Decrypts reply You didn't mention a single name of a game. You mention old ones great if you like living in the past.where is this ground breaking game that is so much better than consoles. Your BENCH MARKS mean nothing with out the games. You make it sound like every old game works so easily on pc. Not true. Many old games don't work or may not work for some. I recently tried to install unreal tournament on my Windows 8 pc and ran into so many issues. Not like you can just put the game in and play. @Raynod Name of these great pc games please. 90% of stats are made up!
so much damage control, so little time.
@highlife http://i.imgur.com/UTBPj.jp... PC has entire game genres that don't exist on console. RTS games, MMO's, Sim games, even Turn-Based Strategy is virtually non-existent in the console world. Mods. Virtually every game released on PC has them and they add a near infinite amount of content and are often just as good or better than the game they are layered on top of. I understand that everyone is excited about a new platform. I understand that the ps3 has great exclusives and that the ps4 will also have great exclusives. I understand that consoles are an easy way of getting into gaming. Great! But the PS4 is not a beast. Nor do you need high priced hardware to outclass it. I am not an elitest. I don't buy high priced, leading edge components and brag about them. I am, however, a gamer. I do build my own PCs. I have been following pc hardware for a couple of decades. I upgraded my computer last fall using components that have been available since 2009/2010. From my previous build, I kept my ATX mid tower case, I kept my 650w power supply, I kept both my hard drives (500Gb + 1Tb) and I kept 8 Gb of DDR3 Ram. I also kept my keyboard, mouse and monitor and re-installed Windows 7 on my new build. Keeping components which are perfectly good is common practice for a PC gamer. I bought an HD 6970 for $169, an AMD Phenom II 965 processor for $87, another 8Gb of DDR3 Ram for $52 and an Asus Motherboard for $107. Total: $415 I overclocked everything because it would be a complete waste not to. I took the 6970 core/memory clock from 880Mhz/1375Mhz to 1200Mhz/1600Mhz and I took the x4 965 from 3.4Ghz to 3.8Ghz. Comparison: PS4 (AMD) GPU: 1.84 TFLOPS, Engine Clock 800Mhz, 18 Compute Units (1152 Stream Processors), 72 Texture Units, 8GB GDDR5 (Shared with CPU) with 176.0GB/s memory bandwidth (Shared with CPU) HD 6970: 2.70 TFLOPS, Engine Clock 880Mhz, 24 Compute Units (1536 Stream Processors) , 96 Texture Units, 2GB GDDR5 with 176.0GB/s memory bandwidth HD 6970 (overclocked): 3.68 TFLOPS, Engine Clock 1200Mhz, 20 Compute Units (1280 Stream Processors) , 80 Texture Units, 2GB GDDR5 with 204.8GB/s memory bandwidth We don't know much about the jaguar processor yet other than it is claimed to be twice as fast (yet to be seen)as the bobcat processor. The fastest bobcat processor (G-T56N) benchmarked at 818 so if the PS4's Jaguar processor is indeed twice as fast as the fastest bobcat processor and there are essentially two jaguar processors stitched together in the PS4 then it would benchmark at 3268 (4x818). The AMD Phenom II X4 965 benchmarked at 4314 and running cpu mark on my overclocked x4 965 gives me a benchmark of 4913. http://www.cpubenchmark.net... http://www.cpubenchmark.net...
correction should be: HD 6970 (overclocked): 3.68 TFLOPS, Engine Clock 1200Mhz, 24 Compute Units (1536 Stream Processors) , 96 Texture Units, 2GB GDDR5 with 204.8GB/s memory bandwidth must have copy/pasted from the wrong line...
Flops, flops, flops, where I'd say compute, compute, compute. First, 1.84GF is no slouch either, and second none of those GPUs have 64 independent compute channels, none of those GPUs can run HSA as efficient as the PS4 CPU/GPU combo (not even current APUs - which are not fully shared mem at this point), none of those GPUs have shared address buses, none of those GPUs have cache control instruction, and the list goes on. Never will you be able to let the CPU setup the compute code the way the PS4 will be able to do on PCs due to bus barriers unless the totally remove the PCIe - which current OSs don't support. Also, fully shared memory would require the OS (!) to be able to allocate memory for both GPU and CPU - which currently is not the case with any desktop operating system. All you have seen so far is code which is almost identical to PCs - unless KZ:SF which runs AI on 8 cores and runs some quite impressive reflections and yet only scratches the surface on what we'll see 1 or 2 years from now.
@Ju Save the marketing hype, PS4 has many bottlenecks too. Its just they dont want to talk about them for obvious reasons. Let us know when it can run BF4 in 1080p 60fps.
@Ju You keep making up this "64 independent compute channels" number. PS4 has 18 compute units. http://www.anandtech.com/sh... http://www.engadget.com/201... http://www.polygon.com/2013... http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Yes FLOPS FLOPS FLOPS and the ps4 has 1.84>T<FLOPS not 1.84 >G<FLOPS. It is a measure of FL-oating point O-perations P-er S-econd and it is a finite number. It doesn't matter how much pixie dust you spread on, once you run out ,you run out and when you have double, you have double! HSA(Heterogeneous System Architecture)describes the hardware itself, GPU's don't "run" HSA, it's a physical description of the components. You know what, I'm going to stop. None of what you are saying makes any sense. You're just throwing acronyms and concepts around in nonsensical combinations. It is literally impossible to decipher what you are saying. There are words on the screen but they don't form any cohesive sentences.
Ju was kind enough to send me this link to explain what he was trying to say then demanded a retraction statement. http://www.gamasutra.com/vi... Here is my reply to him: Ju, You've reworded Cerny's comments into '64 compute sources', '64 hardware threads' and '64 independent compute channels'. I suggest in the future you use direct quotes instead of 'interpreting' what was said. Now that I've read Cerny's original quote, I can see that he is talking about SIMD (Simple Instruction Multiple Data) engines. Earlier generations of AMD GPUs consisted of a number of SIMD engines, each of which consisted of up to 16 ALUs. Each ALU(Arithmetic Logic Unit) could execute bundles of 4 or 5 independent instructions co-issued in a VLIW(Very Long Instruction Word). SIMD engines were issued groups of 64 work items, called wavefronts, and would execute one wavefront at a time. That's a while back though. Modern AMD GPU's don't work this way at all anymore. Now each CU (Compute Unit) includes 4 separate SIMD units for vector processing. Each of these SIMD units simultaneously executes a single operation across 16 work items, but each can be working on a separate wavefront. This places emphasis on finding many wavefronts to be processed in parallel, rather than relying on the compiler to find independent operations within a single wavefront. Each SIMD unit is assigned its own 40-bit program counter and instruction buffer for 10 wavefronts. The whole CU can thus have 40 wavefronts in flight, each potentially from a different work-group or kernel, which is substantially more flexible than previous designs. This means that a GPU with 20 CUs, such as the HD 7870, can be working on up to 71,680 work items at a time. In Cerny's first point, he is talking about Virtual Memory which simplifies moving data between the CPU and the discrete GPU and it allows for a single address space that is seamlessly shared rather than copied by CPUs and GPUs. In Cerny's second point, he is talking about Coherent Caching. GPUs used to rely on specialized caches (such as read-only texture caches) that do not maintain a coherent view of memory. To communicate between cores within a GPU, the programmer or compiler had to insert explicit synchronization instructions to flush shared data back to memory. Modern GPU's use a cache coherency protocol to share data through the L2 cache. This protocol is tailored for general purpose workloads, where algorithms that communicate between cores are common. All of this, of course, is being done with modern GPUs. None of it is exclusive to the PS4. Cerny even says that they were working on this back in 2009, 2010 so it's not surprising to see all of these technologies already implemented in today's GPUs.
@reynod loooooool... pc exclusives whats that
Here are 50 PC Exclusive titles being released in 2013. http://www.ign.com/articles... Oh, and as for PC games being buggy... that's typically a result of "user error". Properly configured and stable gaming PC's like mine rarely ever have problems with games. And when I do come across one, it's usually resolved with a patch just like with console games.
@AndrewLB and 70% of the games listed suck... about 15 good games but not a single is a must buy except neverwinter and company of heroes maybe.Outlast looks gr8 but looks to have horrible replay value.All of them look meiocre nothing looks groundbreaking or unique TBH but the F2P games do look fun
Plently of good exclusives on PC, if they don't interest you thats cool. Im into strategy games like the total war series, Im also in to flight sims, They are not available on consoles. Am I upset that im going to miss out on uncharted or other PS4 exclusives? No because I will play them on my PS4. He who games on one system misses out on the most games!
@AndrewLB that's next-gen quality graphics right there. . .
Seems like every Got Dam PS4 article just has to mention the PC in it. If the PS4 is so Got Dam great why even mention the PC, why not just talk about your GPU SPECS and up coming Games. Hey Sony how about you mention your PS4's GPU specs so Editors can STop mentioning the PC in every dam PS4 article. Would be nice to hear about those PS4 Exclusives instead of everyone talking about the PC. WiiU X360 PS3 PC ALL have Exclusives. How do I know cause as a Enthusiast PC Gamer with I can play WiiU and PS3 Games on my PC. So yeh I've played RDR KZ2,3 UC123 blah blah blah PLUS I'm playing PC exclusives like Arma 3, Planetside 2, Hawken, ProjectCARS, Firefall, Guild Wars 2, TERA Rising, Path of Exhile, Warface, etc. YOU may not like these games but Millions of PC Gamers do like the 9 million Russians playing Warface. I just want to know why SOny has chosen to talk about the PC a whole lot more than it's GPU and future Exclusives? Come on the Whole PS4 vs. PC thing has gotten very STALE anyway. PS4 in 2014 = DX11, 8GB Gddr5, 8 core AMD APU @ 1.6ghz, Some GPU, Usb 2.0 Enthusiast PC in 2014 = DX11.1, GDDR6, an Intel running at 4.5GHZ, HD8000 or GTX800 GPU, USB 3.0A 10gb per second and DX12 in 2015 So instead of talking about the PC tell Sony to talk about the PS4 not being backwards Compatible and what happens when your PS3 YLOD. Oh you gotta go Buy another PS3 to sit next to your PS4 or Spend money to use Gaikai to play PS3 Games you already own.
@ATi_Elite my god what an ass!!o-0
You don't have to be a PC elitist to know that the PS4 is not a future PC. 2014 and 2015 PCs will be in an entirely different league all together. Knowing more than developers =/= Common Sense This is more of the pre-gen Xbox 360 will do Toy Story Graphics/PS4 will do 1080p/60FPS 4D bull that was foisted about around the start of this generation.
Considering how Killzone and Thief are both running on PS4 @ 1080p/30fps... i wouldn't expect any miracles especially out of a GPU that on a good day is comparable to an HD7850, but with shared memory.
Shared mem has 20-25GB/sec bandwidth (no GDDR available), PS4 has ~176, so, no I disagree.
*sits back and waits for the show to start*.
Remove this before the cave trolls arrive.
@decrypt there is no gddr6 coming out sense stacked ram it's suppose to upped the bandwidth,do you know for a fact that nvidia are really going to reach that speed.
correct statement= consoles will have better games whether its 2014 or 2050 regardless of power....
I don't care what it is, it plays games beautifully from what we've seen, I will have this right next to my high-end PC.
Ill have mine in the living room for when the lads come round. I like my pc in a dark room away from the wife and kids :)
This article draws a lot of attention. But I must admit PS4's power is more advanced for next gen, along with it's GDDR5 8GB super-fast memory, it sure can harness more capabilities.. just don't freak out guys.. Be calm
But we don't even have to mention specs why we will have the games that will do the talking.
@decrypt Do some research if you want to know, it's out there. I will explain for all those who don't know or cannot understand PC jargon. The PS4 GPU is a lite-modified version of the Radeon 7850M. The main difference to the PC Laptop/Mobile version is the PS4 version has direct access to the 8GB GDDR5 Ram which it shares with the X86 CPU. The PC/Mobile version comes with 2GB onboard, but is more restrictive. Having the PS4 version direct access the unified memory solution provides direct communication with the CPU. The PS4 GPU will be much easier to program for developers. Also, the PS4 GPU has been slightly powered down, but only due to power consumption and over heating. The PC Mobile version also has 2 extra cores (20, instead of PS4's 18) because the PS4 will be a more compact design it further helps to prevent overheating and produces better chip yields during mass production. In essence the PS4 version should be more productive and easier to gain results as there are no PC drivers and other bottleneck issues with PS4. They could have gone with a better solution than the x86 CPU, but I guess there needed to be a trade off between power, cost and ease of development. The reason many developers are calling the PS4 a super PC is because they are free of the restrictions imposed by the PC architecture and they will be able to match (for a few years at least) a top of the range gaming PC. Every game does not have to be 1080p and 60fps to shine. PS4 is a very, very capable machine.
Totally agreed. The Architecture of the new PS4 system is a great advance, because its resources are optimized and integrated. The CPU and GPU are located in a same core, also the new GDRR5 memories and the entire machine is designed to avoid the bottlenecks. In the actual market doesnt exist PC with the PS4 performance because the actual PC doesnt have an integrated architecture, for a PC you can buy a large memory 100 GB RAM but the independient CPU and the GPU could require a lot of time to run this amount of information, that translates in large loading times, ugly textures and low frame rate. In 2 or 3 years we will see super PCs with Ps4 architecture, with integrated CPU/GPU/APU.
I am guessing Microsoft are going with a DDR3 Memory solution. If so, their GPU will have 3GB on board to balance speed issues. This will really assist MS in terms of the Xbox performing similarly to the PS4's set up. However, this is almost more PC like for Next Xbox than for PS4. There will be similar bottlenecks with this solution when the 3GB on board memory has been maximized. Then the GPU will have to take from the remaining system ram. This is a typical PC bottleneck and affects performance. A good software developer/engineer could get around this issue, but it means more work. What is certain is Next Box will use x86 CPU just like PS4. Regarding me being 100% on the Ram solution, Microsoft may not go this route, but all roads lead in that direction and if I were a gambling man I would bet. I don't expect MSFT to elaborate too much on this @Xbox Event 21st May. Sony has it right with the GDDR5 shared access solution.
What their doing right now is "Hyping" the release on their new console. I'd expect people not to be mislead by the hype and make their own informed decisions instead of reading a praise article and quoting it everywhere. All it really comes down to is the largest numbers they can come up with without completely lying. If they were truly honest they would mention the weakness's of the PS4 as well which are blaring obvious if you do the research. PS4's Bandwidth for instance... they tout the largest numbers like GDDR5's 20GB/s to the APU and the APU's 176GB/s between the CPU and GPU but what they fail to mention is that the GPU and certainly the CPU aren't powerful enough to saturate the bandwidth... in fact top end PC equipment isn't even powerful enough to saturate those speeds. Not to completely talk it down though the APU's architecture is superior to stand alone parts with the same performance but it's still not enough to outperform a Top-end PC. The PS4's CPU should be talked about more... it's really underpowered. The CPU clock speed is one of the more important things a CPU offers towards gaming. If it was still at 3GHz there would be less of an argument but 1.6GHz is what most laptops run at and the reason none of the devs are announcing 1080p/60fps right of the back. Not to mention the GDDR5 has a lower latency so if the processor has to communicate with the memory directly it will become a bottleneck. Yet again just to show I'm not completely biased it will be able to communicate with the GPU without the latency problems because of the benefits of the APU but eventually direct communication between the CPU and RAM is necessary. Desktop PC's will never take off with the APU structure... there will be a market for it but the conventional setup will maintain considering PCIe 3.0 is just now taking off and PCIe 4.0 is in the works. PCI 2.0 isn't outdated yet and does the job for top end GPU's like the 7970 or 680GTX which don't even fully saturate the PCIe 2.0 x16 slot which is only 8GB/s even in SLI.
"Desktop PC's will never take off with the APU structure... there will be a market for " I agree with that. That's why something like a PS4 exists. Because of legacy barriers it's damn hard to build a PC around this, actually, especially if you can't control the HW to support it properly.
The PS4 is much more future proofed than the PS3 was at launch. If unified memory becomes a widely used standard, PC will not really catch up until 2014 when Nvidia has this standard implemented in all Maxwell GPUs. That being said, PC traditionally always goes into a 1-2 year dark age after a console release, I don't think this will happen with this gen due to a shared architecture across the board as well as the presence of Steam gaming. It's a good time to be a gamer really.
Just to go against some points people are blindly spewing, you cannot and will not get a "mid-ranged" pc with ps4 specs for a similar price now, or on release. You go to any custom pc website and get me a pc that can run crysis 3 on max, for £350-£600.
Go buy the parts at newegg.com and put it together yourself and you will be able to play Crysis 3 for that kind of money. Buy this: http://www.newegg.com/Produ... And this: http://www.newegg.com/Produ... And you're at roughly $600. You could actually run 2x HD7850's and stay under the £600 price you mentioned.
lol there are only blind console fanboys in N4G ? the truth make angry
THIS IS WHATS GONNA HAPPEN lol lol lol lol 1.Xbox720 will reveal specs which will either match or seem better overall than PS4 and xbox fans will go woohoo as usual. 2.PS4 fans will go up in arms and say what they always say, 'our exclusives will be better' 3.The battle between PS4 and PC will end. 4.The battle between PS4 and XBOX 720 will begin The END GAME: 1.PC gamers will be enjoying their games for the year while console gamers fight over themselves. 2.Then at launch of next gen consolers boast 'woah our console games are way better, look way better, play way better, but but they are so darn expensive but who cares its next gen' 3.Meantime pc gamers enjoy playing loads of pc exclusives and a year later again its previous gen cycle repeat. this time with the horsepower of next gen pc's and a buttload of pc games. 4.Console gamers will again whine we have exclusives and say pc is expensive to make and match our console in power while quietly ignoring the fact they own a Laptop/Desktop somewhere at home whose price they have comfortably discounted from the argument. 5.PC gamers will not give a damn as they know console gamers have barely 2 games anyone gives a rats arse about. 6.Pc gamer goes back to playing awesome games. 7.Midway through the gen cycle, HEADLINES: 'tablets beat consoles' 8.PC gamer yawns, continues with life. FIN
LOL..it can hardly do 1080 while from 2010/2011 can do 4k gaming
More like a pc back from 2010 but w/e.
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