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Submitted by HauntedQuiche 950d ago | opinion piece

Sit Down, Shut Up, Stop Whining: A Letter to Publishers About Used Games

"Dear publishers,

Sit down, shut up, stop whining.

“But it’s taking money from our pock-“

No, it isn’t. Sit down. Shut up. Stop whining.

“You’re screwing over develop-“

That’s your schtick. SD. SU. SW.

“We won’t be able to afford to make gam-“

Rethink your business model. And while you’re at it, have you considered SD, SU, SW?"

- Mariel Hurd on how publishers try to control the argument on used games, why they are arguing in bad faith, and how destroying used games will badly damage the industry. (Culture, Industry, Xbox One)

Supermax  +   950d ago
Until you put up 200 million of your own money to make a game you would not have any idea what developers or publishers go threw.myself I'd be pissed if I made a game for 10 dollars and took a loss because 1 person buys the game at full price then turns it in at GameStop and sells it to someone else for 5 I don't get that 5,I'd be hot.
DragonKnight  +   950d ago
Name one game that cost $200 million dollars. Explain why developers should get extra profit off one disc for not doing extra work when that doesn't work in ANY other industry?
Roccetarius  +   950d ago
Star Wars: The Old Republic.

EA spent millions on that game, but it failed within 8 months of release.
DragonKnight  +   950d ago
"Star Wars: The Old Republic."

Citation needed.

Beyond that, we can say the same about any MMO because they are an ongoing process with ongoing costs. Name a game that had a one time fee of $200 million to make.
MikeMyers  +   949d ago
If it's 20 million or 200 million what difference does it make? You're not the one who has made that investment so you don't get a say. This self entitlement attitude of yours ends after you bought the game. You don't get a say in how used games affects their bottom end.

So now what, you're going to quote me and put citation needed on that too?
#1.1.3 (Edited 949d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(2) | Report
maniacmayhem  +   949d ago
I agree with Dragon.

There hasn't been one clear example or situation where a developer closed shop do to used game sales.

It usually boils down to bad sales, over budgeting or their publisher canceling future projects with that dev, period.

Why is this the only industry that feels the need to still get paid AFTER a product is purchased from retail. People don't realize how well paid a lot of these devs, producers, marketing people are, add on top of that bonuses most of these guys make.
DragonKnight  +   949d ago
@maniac: Completely agreed. I mean, resale has been a cornerstone of commerce for thousands of years, and NEVER has there been a time until just recently with the gaming industry where anyone thought they should be making more money off of one product purchased from retail. Never. No other industry has the unmitigated gall to try anything like that. And yet, here in this very thread, you can see corporate apologisers agreeing with greed. No wonder we keep getting screwed.
Simon_Brezhnev  +   950d ago
Dont give me that movie and music industry have the same problem. Yet gaming industry whines about it the most. Movies cost more money to make than games but they get pirated like no tomorrow.
yugovega  +   950d ago
difference is movies make extra at the theaters ad dvd sales. music makes extra off concerts and radio play. games only have the sale of the game. perfect business model would be for them to add ads in games. like a coke sign in cod. maybe a walmart ad on the load screen? without those the only money they get is of the sale.
DragonKnight  +   950d ago
@gammajooki: As it should be. Concerts and DVDs and theatre showings and radio play all involve extra work. They involve extra expenditures for printing, advertisement, air time fees, etc... Why should developers get extra money when they do nothing extra for it?
mydyingparadiselost  +   950d ago
Games have dlc now to make extra money on.
hazelamy  +   950d ago
games only have the sale of the game?

no dlc?
no guide books?
no tie in novels and comics?
no movies/tv series?
no merchandise?
clothing/action figures/replicas of in game weapons or items?

no, games have no other revenue streams.
MoveTheGlow  +   950d ago
You can just hand someone a book. So, there shouldn't have been authors since the Gutenberg Press, then, right?

When you invest 200 million dollars, you factor in the fact that each gamer has the right to sell his or her property first. Part of your investment. If you don't make a good return on it, that is your fault. You don't just wish away fairness in commerce to even the odds.

So be frugal. Maybe don't mo-cap that horse. Maybe don't try to be yet another "The Next Call of Duty." Maybe don't throw money at ruining a long-standing franchise in the name of DRM. It's not our fault that so many big companies try to make a giant game for a giant audience (which gets more and more tired of the compromises made to make a game appeal to a giant audience) and think that everyone in that audience will buy your game. Try making a well-made, niche-audience game. Be - gasp - creative and take risks, instead of making a movie with a multiplayer shooter attached. Sell your game on word-of-mouth and not millions in advertising dollars.

Don't blame us for playing by fair rules.
#1.3 (Edited 950d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
JeffKaos  +   950d ago
But you already got your $10 for the original sale.Why should the person who originally bought it from you give you anything back when he sells it? I mean, how can you get paid twice for selling the same item? Are you selling the game or the renting out the right to play it? If you buy something, anything, and then go and resell it are you obligated to give some of the money you get form it back to the person who made it? If I sell you my Amish made couch do I have to give some cash to the Amish guy who made it?
GhettoBlasStarr  +   950d ago
So then I have a question for you. If you buy a pizza with the $10 how many slices do you give the person that gave you the $10???

- Riddle me that Caped Crusader -
MeatAbstract  +   950d ago
Sit down, shut up, stop whining should just be directed at everyone that ever whines about anything.

Related video
Supermax  +   950d ago
Bf3 spent 100 million on advertising alone if you don't think publishers are losing out then you are mistakin if you don't care there losing then you don't like playing games,this is why game studios are going out of business.
MonkeyNinja  +   950d ago
Game studios are going out of business because they don't know how to spend their $! If CDProjectRed can make Witcher 2 for PC (piracy galore) and 360, skip over PS3, and still be able to make Witcher 3 for next-gen, then I'd say that other publishers are doing something wrong.

Did EA really spend $100mil on BF3 (wouldn't be surprised)?

Look at Tomb Raider: Great game, good sales, but how much was Squeenix wanting to make back? Look at FF13 budget (not sure what it was, but pretty sure it was high). If you're spending so much on a game that you need to sell COD numbers just to break even, something's wrong.

Look at indie games lately: Indie devs give us what we want, we buy. There's no excuse. It's just a simple matter of publishers not understanding their target audience.
Roccetarius  +   950d ago
As i mentioned up above, EA's biggest mistake was SWTOR.
kevinsheeks  +   950d ago
and here i thought it was because they invest massive amounts into the most fancy graphics while giving a backseat to core functions like game play,narrative, and such.
DragonKnight  +   950d ago
Spending 100 million on advertising is a choice. They don't have to spend that much money on advertising, especially with Internet options available that would save them a ton of money. A choice in how to spend money is not the same as a necessity in how to spend money. No one should be sympathetic to EA for spending that much money on advertising.
MikeMyers  +   949d ago
Don't tell me or anyone else who should or shouldn't be sympathetic. That's not your call. You have issues with EA, not everyone else does so stop taking polls and trying to force others onto your petitions.
Root  +   949d ago
So true, EA brings everything on themselfs...who would be sypathetic to them when it's their own fault for most of the backlash that surrounds them


Take a bloody chill pill

Can you ever look at someones comment, think to yourself in your head "I disagree with him but it's his opinion" and just move on.

It's like your having a tantrum most of the time, glad to see your true colours are showing
isarai  +   950d ago
It really just seems like poor money management to me, i mean with more than half your budget going towards nothing but marketing, also i don't really see how they don't take this into consideration when setting the budget for the game in the first place. Not only that but why is the game industry so damn special, tons of other markets have products that cost even more to produce yet you don't hear half as much whining and moaning about it than game publishers, look at cars, how many people buy new cars as apposed to used cars? and yet i've never heard this being such an issue to the point where you have to pay the dealership/company in order to fully use their car even though you bought it used from the owner.
whamlollypop7  +   950d ago
Your sit down shut up and stop whining policy should be taken by everyone on the earf.
ACESupERIC  +   950d ago
What makes the gaming industry any different than any other consumer production industry? The used goods industry is as old as commerce itself. You don't see electronics manufacturers whining when someone sells their old stuff. You don't see automakers threatening to block used car sales. The contractor who built my house in 1969 wasn't given anything after the initial sale. An artist doesn't get a cut every time their art is resold and some paintings and sculptures prices make entire game budgets look like chump change. The fact of the matter is, when I buy something, it belongs to me. If I wanna sell my used games that I paid for, how can a publisher even remotely think that they deserve a cut from my sale? I didn't pay the automakers who built the cars that I sold after I moved on to something else. Publishers make their money off of the original sale of the game and they should be happy with that. Like every other manufacturer on the planet! I buy used and new because some titles are worth full price. But a lot of games are not. There are plenty of games worth playing for 20-30 bucks used. Release your mediocre games at a price comparable to it and you might see more sales. But sadly every game is not golden. And as soon as publishers realize this and charge accordingly, they will see more sales.
mydyingparadiselost  +   950d ago
Unless some kind of legislation is made for reselling digital games they will destroy the used market long before anything else will.
ACESupERIC  +   950d ago
Dam isari. You posted while I was typing. You and I think alike
JeffKaos  +   950d ago
The two problems I have with publishers crying foul over used game is this: first, once you sell a copy of a game you've made your money from that particular sale. Trying to get money from the resell goes against every basic rule of economics, how can you make money off of the sale of the same item over and over? You're not doing anything or producing anything, you're just sitting back making money off of a single product....and when you multiply this times the number of copies being resold you're making obscene amounts of money for doing absolutely nothing.
Second: what happens if my console takes a dump? Will I have to buy all new games when I replace my console, because technically my games would be used? Or would I have to go through some lengthy BS to transfer licsences' to my new system? And I guess publishers are cool with completely destroying several major corporations like GameFly or any place that rents games.
Like the author states, you sold me a disc and regardless of the material on the disc what I do with the physical disc is my business, it's my disc, I paid for it.
Supermax  +   950d ago
Tomb raider cost 100 million to make
DragonKnight  +   950d ago
You keep changing around your statement until you find something that works to support your anti-used game original comment.

"Tomb raider cost 100 million to make."

Citation needed.

And no, that analyst pulling numbers out of his rectum doesn't count as a credible source for 2 reasons. A)He's not an official Square-Enix representative and B)SE never stated how many sales of Tomb Raider they actually wanted. C)They based sales expectations on reviews and Metacritic so that should tell you something. Besides, as has been established, marketing budget is irrelevant as that is a CHOICE not a "needs to be mega-expensive" necessity.
MikeMyers  +   949d ago
Yet your opinion on the subject is credible? Tomb Raider was an expensive game to make, of course they would like to have all the revenue from consumers to go directly to them. Wouldn't you if you invested that much into making it?

It's so easy to be dismissive sitting a million miles away on your chair typing away how used game sales don't matter when you're the one who's not making that investment. If Square thinks used game sales hurt its chances at making a better profit then they have a right to say that. You don't.

Why do you think Sony has online passes for all of their own games? Do you think they just put them in there to be pro-consumer? Oh but let me guess, you're smarter than the folks at Sony too.
MikeyDucati1  +   950d ago
Bravo!!! Bravo!!! What a great article!!!
hazelamy  +   950d ago
the games industry weathered the worldwide recession better than most other industries.
but now it's finally started to bite even them, they're going after one area of the industry that's been there since the beginning, the preowned market.

preowned has always been big business, and it's not now suddenly causing studios to shut down, the state of the world economy is, but they can't do anything about that, and being more efficient with their investments clearly doesn't appeal to them when they have multimillionaire adulterous sportsmen to pay a fortune to appear on their covers.
no, they can't control the economy, so they go after the preowned market.

but this shows a lack of insight on their part.
as the preowned market has been so integral to gaming for so long, the only logical conclusion is that, at the very least, it's not harmful.
and i believe it is actually beneficial.
without the ability to trade in games there would be less new purchases.
i bet most people here have traded old games to part fund new games, i know i have.

the publisher got paid their legally entitled recompense for every game that ends up on the preowned market.

they say they want to reward new buyers.
and they think instantly devaluing the buyers purchase by 100% is a reward?
yeah, in bizzaro world maybe.
RuleofOne343  +   949d ago
I say the only way the industry rights this mess is if they all agree to wield the hammer that puts the nails in Game stops coffin. As for that counter argument about shelf space at retail that GameStop will mention, I have 2 word response for it PROPRIETARY Stores & for those that sale the consoles & games but do not sale used games sweeting their reason for doing so.

Like I said it has to be a unified effort from all in the industry if they want to end this crap. JMO
#13 (Edited 949d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Kyosuke_Sanada  +   949d ago
Customers complains -> Better product made -> Profit = Normal Business Model

Customer Complains -> Ignores -> Deficit -> Calls Customers Entitled = Gaming Business Model

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