210°
Submitted by ChaosKnight 450d ago | opinion piece

Bethesda Has No Right to Whine About Second-Hand Transactions

Hardcore Gamer: It’s really sad to see companies whine about gamer’s right to engage in second-hand transactions, because if the tables were turned on them, they’d do exactly the same thing and with exactly the same sentiment. Games aren’t cheap, so if time and resources are spent on something that could have been enjoyable, but turned out to be poop, then when what right do publishers and developers have to blame gamers? (Bethesda Softworks, Industry, PS3, Xbox 360)

GalacticEmpire  +   450d ago
100% agree!

Message to devs/publishers:

If you want our money, MAKE BETTER GAMES.

End of story.
#1 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(23) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
MasFlowKiller  +   450d ago | Well said
I completely disagree.

If you have a single Player game even if the game is Good, Bad, Amazing or Horrible, every used copy sold is a lost sale for the publisher / Developer.

The problem is not us gamers the problem is gamestop who doesn't negotiate with publisher for sales of used games.

No wait, i guess we are also part of the problem. Developers view their product as an experience, most gamers view games as a box product and believe they have a right to do what ever the hell they want with that box and to some extend we should but lets say you buy a ticket to view a movie, should you really have the right to sell that ticket(after to viewed the movie) and sell it to another person without giving any of your profit to the studio that made that movie? I know its not the same to us to both Movie studios and games studios are selling the same thing an experience, it just sucks that people(mostly gamestop) cant see how they are hurting the industry that is putting bread in their table
#1.1 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(21) | Report | Reply
GalacticEmpire  +   450d ago
"every used copy sold is a lost sale for the publisher / Developer"

Nope, that's an illogical leap that assumes the gamers who buy used games would still pay the full price for them. Most probably just wouldn't bother, especially the poorer among us.

Also the game has to be bought new at some point for it to end up as a used game.

Your movie analogy falls down on the fact that (most)piracy and used movie trading exist in the market after the cinema, as the movie would not yet be released on dvd/bluray. Even then the industry thrives, despite some movies costing BIG bucks to make.
#1.1.1 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(16) | Disagree(3) | Report
SonyPS4  +   450d ago
A ticket is not the actual movie, and you cannot watch this movie at home until you actually, you know, buy the movie, and once you buy the movie you are free to lend or sell the copy away whenever you see fit as it is considered your personal property. Are video games the exception simply because they are video games?

I am respectful of the opinion that used games are bad for developers (I even agree to an extent) but this analogy is probably THE worst I've ever read regarding this idea.
#1.1.2 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(0) | Report
DragonKnight  +   450d ago
I disagree with you. There's no proof or guarantee that the absence of used games would mean a hike in the purchase of used games because people could just outright refuse to buy the game in the first place.

I've said it once, I'll say it again, the idea of someone getting multiple instances of payment for ONE disc with a game that doesn't change from the moment it was bought new to the moment it was re-bought as used, is unethical and greedy. Nothing has changed to warrant extra profit, no extra work has been done to the game code, so why should the developer and publisher gain extra for something that they've already completed and haven't done anything extra on?

DLC is extra content that is paid for, but the game disc is a final step.

So if we can say that used games cannot conclusively equal a lost new sale (due to the fact that it could be just as likely that the game sits on shelves or never gets a hit on a server), and that no extra work is done to warrant extra pay, where is the actual justification for the greed present in the idea that publishers and developers should be the only people in the only industry in the history of the world to gain extra profit for literally doing absolutely nothing to warrant it? Why should they be paid for a possibility and not actual continued work?

I don't know about any of you, but in my job I don't get paid extra money after I finish up for the day and go home.

**EDIT** I would love to see some numbers on how much developers who are gamers save from massive discounts on games or even getting them for free. They don't have to worry about the price of some games, but all ordinary gamers do.
#1.1.3 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report
-Mika-  +   450d ago | Interesting
What a ignorant comment.I swear gamers these days are so selfish. There have been many great games this gen that have sold horribly. Bayonetta, Gravity rush, Silent hill downpour and many more. People buying used games aren't putting money into the developers who stayed up all night trying to create a game. I think you and other people don't understand the stress game developers go through. Spending the night at the office, sacrificing pay and not having a social life. If MS and Sony enforce a used game ban. I won't be against it. Everyone will benefit from it.
#1.2 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(20) | Report | Reply
GalacticEmpire  +   450d ago
Is it ignorant to expect better quality for my money?

"If MS and Sony enforce a used game ban. I won't be against it. Everyone will benefit from it."

Yeah, screw the poor people who can't afford to play the games that the richer folk can /s

"Spending the night at the office, sacrificing pay and not having a social life"

http://uk.ign.com/articles/...

from link "The Game Developer Salary Survey conducted by Game Developer Magazine. The study pinpoints the average salary at "mainstream" US-based companies during 2011 at $81,192 (up from $80,817 in 2010)."

Those poor guys, maybe we should have a whip round. Come to think of it, I think I saw Peter Molyneux begging for change in a shop doorway earlier.
#1.2.1 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(4) | Report
Majin-vegeta  +   450d ago
Yet again MIKA with another stupid comment of hers!GTFO

Edit:Think i'll go make a twitter and have a few words with this Dev.Anyone got his twitter account?
#1.2.2 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(2) | Report
DARK WITNESS  +   450d ago
my brother is a developer and he has a very good social life.
Heisenburger  +   450d ago
So the fact that IIII work very hard for my money doesn't matter does it?

I'm sorry, but I take care of myself and my grandma first before anyone else. And not in that order.
ApolloTheBoss  +   450d ago
Oh great, Mika's back. I thought you gone for good this time. -_-
Tr10wn  +   450d ago
Galactic i really want to know what games you are into since you speak of quality, i bet you are one of those people that stay old-school because they are "Better" somehow and therefore none of the new games are at the level of "Quality".

I bought 4 Skyrim on launch date 2 for my friends and 2 for me 1 PC and 1 360 and i still feel like i need to give Bethesda more money, i mean i spent 200 hours on the 360 version alone 240 hours on the PC version and still playing it, that's 440 hours on a single player game... i would never buy a Bethesda game used i spent more than 1400 hours across TES, Fallout and Dishonored, i feel sorry for the PS3 gamers because they didnt enjoy the game like it was supposed to.

If you can't pay $60 for a game i honestly i don't know why i even bother you are exactly like my brother he doesn't even own a Steam account because he thinks that paying for a game is stupid yet he cries when he read about used games ban and he doesnt even buy games anymore lol, if you can find $50 for an used game you can get $10 more eventually and get it new and give more money to the devs.

From my point of view you are just another lazy selfish person who doesn't care about the developers that make the games you play, if you can't afford a $60 dollar game you are in serious problems and you shouldn't be here posting, instead go find a job...
rainslacker  +   450d ago
@Tr10wn

I buy a lot of new games. Brought about 60 last year alone. Already purchased 16 this year, with another 30 or so on my pre-order list, and another 5 or so that I'm waiting to see about a PS4 version. On top of that I also buy many other games when they drop in price if I wasn't terribly interested in them to begin with. The only time I will buy used is if I can't find it new anymore, and I will go out of my way to find a new copy before all else.

However, many on these games I buy I get on release day at full price. I have no problem supporting developers and to take the time to tell others about that product should it be worth it. Since I'm a collector, I do not trade in my games, nor do I have any intention of doing so.

That being said, I would drop any developer/publisher/console in a heartbeat if I could not resell or trade the game that I purchase. While I support the industry, I still don't like being taken advantage of as a consumer.

It's not about being selfish. It's about caring enough about those that DO BUY their product to not punish them because they are doing their best to support the industry. Given that 70% of all trade ins at gamestop are to finance NEW GAME purchases, it seems that's a good thing for publishers, and not selfish at all.

If the industry wants to go the route of blocking used games, I say more power to them. But have no doubt that the outcry for that would make the always-on rumor look like a walk in the park. It would be enough to make me walk away from new games, and maybe finally get through my immense backlog.
thezeldadoth  +   450d ago
most games today just aren't worth the money. Even so called "critically acclaimed" games for the most part are stale and unimaginative. Honestly i've mostly been playing indie games and older games lately.

Even games i've bought just don't hold the value that games used to. The only exception recently is Demon's/Dark Souls, Tomb Raider and Lego City Undercover
IK IR Y IP T  +   450d ago
u r a dweeb who needs to stop gaming altogether because u just dont get it gamestop is bad for gaming so are gamers like u
revben  +   450d ago
did you read the actual statement. He was not saying used games is the pawn of the devil. he just said it is a concern, but they try to work with it. I swear the gaming community cannot think by themselves. Full of hispterss.
MikeMyers  +   450d ago
Great games still end up on the used market. What they need to do is make games more affordable or reward loyal customers.

Why don't the console suppliers offer a rental service? Why don't the publishers offer a trade-in market?

It's a vicious circle. They expect people to pay $60 and keep the game forever. Not everyone wants to keep all of their games. Not every game has replay value either. It's not my fault they don't have as wide of a market as movie distribution either. If a game costs 20 million to make and they need to sell it at $60 a pop and sell a few million to break even they need to rethink the way they distribute their games. Especially if the used market hurts them.

I don't blame consumers for taking advantage of the used market. It's legal and the game industry isn't doing anything to reward the consumer for buying new. In fact what they are doing is the complete opposite. Endless amounts of DLC and games that are too easy. So people finish them quickly or they feel they didn't get the full package because after the game took 2-3 years to create it only takes a few months to have multiple amounts of DLC released.
DigitalAnalog  +   450d ago
I don't know about you guys but aren't you all overlooking the big elephant is the room?

Bethesda, who (ironically), sold 10 million + copies of Skyrim is complaining about used sale(s) that are hurting them. 90% of the games are barely making a few million and yet this particular company cries foul?
#1.7 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
NastyLeftHook0  +   450d ago
and they have no right to whine when there games are pirated because of there bug infested games aswell.
Good_Guy_Jamal  +   450d ago
I don't like that this game has bugs! Let me steal it!!
I'm not gonna get all preachy about piracy, I personally don't care, I just find your reasoning a bit iffy.
dangert12  +   450d ago
They can moan about what they want, they can release poor material if they want. they can do what they want...but they cannot force you to spend your money...ITS ABOUT TIME GAMERS TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE SHAPE OF THE INDUSTRY ITS NOT JUST THEM...BY PURCHASING YOU ARE ACCEPTING IT THIS WAY....But i do feel reviewiers should be way more honest ive notice alot of top games never have an issue in reviews or minor ones...for people to get a broken game and its broken 2 years after release despite updates lol
Kenshin_BATT0USAI  +   450d ago
We gotta look at this issue in a broader aspect. I.e. Consumerism as a whole.

When someone buys a car, and it runs it's course and eventually sell it back to a car dealer. Does Honda, Nissan, Ford, etc. complain? No.
When someone decides to buy a used car over an old car. Do they complain? No.

Why? Because there is such thing at mitigating costs. So rather than complaining about costs rising for making games, or complaining about lack of sales causing a net loss. Why not develop a better way to create games? With lower costs.
Don't punish consumers for your lack of ingenuity developers/publishers. Figure out a way where everyone wins instead.
zippycup  +   450d ago
Once game makers start releasing games whit better quality control then maybe we won’t be buying used games
But I for one really hate paying $60 for a game and then not being able to play it because of game breaking bugs
Now if I can get game cheaper then I don’t mind fighting whit bugs
Although I will admit I don’t buy to Meany used games I usually wait till they go down in price
ziggurcat  +   450d ago
devs/publishers really need to stfu about this already...

i've not once come across any film makers, authors or musicians complain about used DVD/blu-ray, book or CD sales.
RavageX  +   450d ago
Simple as this for me. A game that has no replay value and is only about 8 hours long is NOT worth $60 to me. I don't care how good the story/gameplay/whatever is. Silly bits like collecting items in game don't count either. "Oh I can collect 100 hidden goldfish bowls? Why? Does it add to the story somehow? No? Just makes the game seem longer? No thanks."

This is why I think lots of devs try to tack multiplayer onto games now, but if not done right it takes away from the rest of the game.

Skyrim would have been worth $60 if the game was reliable. You want people to pay full price? Release a game that works properly on ALL platforms.

Really though, I don't often buy used games. I wait for discounts. $30 is my usual buying point, sometimes(but rarely) $40. Never more than that these days.
#7 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Software_Lover  +   450d ago
Man you read my mind. I buy most of my games during steam sales. Cant beat it. Plus I have a 360 and ps3 so I cant just go out and buy new games every week. Prices need to come down.
Software_Lover  +   450d ago
Main problem is price. Plain and simple. Every game is not gonna sell like Halo, COD, etc. But more sales would happen if games if games were 39.99. There was really no excuse for some pc games to go up to 59.99 because of the consoles. The pc architecture has not changed one bit so the price hike made no sense. It's just greed.

39.99-49.99 and people would buy more. Preferably 39.99 lol
STICKzophrenic  +   450d ago
I don't buy a lot of used games, but the ones I have purchased, have led to buying sequels new.

A prime example is Dead Space. I rented it from GameFly, liked it so much that I bought it from them. I purchased Dead Space 2 and Dead Space 3 for full price at launch.

Had I not had the option to play Dead Space that cheap, I probably wouldn't have purchased the other two games. used games CAN be very beneficial in that sense.
Blacklash93  +   450d ago
Their games typically sell very well and they have a good reputation with gamers, so what's their issue?

I like Bethesda for making good games that are actually worth $60, but come on. Just be glad for the success you have and that people want to play your game.
revben  +   450d ago
did you read the actual statement. He was not saying used games is the pawn of the devil. he just said it is a concern, but they try to work with it. I swear the gaming community cannot think by themselves. Full of hispters.
jjb1981  +   450d ago
It's the same for music and movies but nobody cares....
cyberninja  +   450d ago
If anything they are the ones to fuel second-hand market by releasing broken games, learn how to program first Bethesda.
worldwidegaming  +   450d ago
This revenue was never added into the mix and should never be looked at. They are just angry some company cashed in on it! Car dealers resell used cars, hell plenty of things online are second hand products. Once you buy said product you should be able to resell it, the crap they have implemented only made things worse (online pass)
xXKingofStingXx  +   450d ago
I agree; companies have no right to complain.

I understand that used game sales hurt their profits, but do you think for a second that the companies give a damn about you or I before they put crap on a shelf and ask for 60 dollars?

Hell no they don't, just ask Gearbox.

Bethesda of all people really has no room to talk either as their games release buggy and even outright broken sometimes.

As I said, I understand they need to make money with rising costs of development, technology, ect. However what they need to understand is that WE gamers work hard for our money just the same and hate to spend it on an unpolished, shameless cash-in the likes of Fallout:New Vegas or Aliens:CM.

If anything I say its the shaddy and outright greedy practices of some companies that are hurting the industry and keeping people from supporting the remaining few worthwhile developers.
#14 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
jamz4  +   450d ago
A possible compromise could be a usb key along the lines of the battle.net thingys. When installing a new game, its cd key is registered online (or phone) and logged to your system via the usb key. When traded in you take the key to game or gamestop and they decommission that game for your system allowing it to be used in another machine.

Some sytem could be developed to allow stores to decommission games and for them to be charged a percentage for its resale.
kevinsheeks  +   450d ago
funny thing is even when they do stop used game sales and piracy with always online i bet game prices won't go down, dlc and micro transactions will continue to grow
rainslacker  +   450d ago
If anything they'll go up. Something about how games just cost more to develop. They already want to do that, but I don't believe the market can bear a price increase. On top of that, game sales will go down, since fewer people are likely to want to spend as much, or they'll wait for the inevitable price reduction.

Rule number one of the free market system, when you have no competition(used games), then you control the market.
#16.1 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
wenaldy  +   450d ago
Sorry, but customer is always right.
LAWSON72  +   450d ago
To a point, some customers act liked they are entitled to everything for free.
rainslacker  +   450d ago
Customer is more often than not wrong. The good companies make them think that they're always right though.

I've worked in CS jobs enough to know that the consumer will extract every little bit of what they feel they're entitled to because of this stupid saying, and God forbid you tell them no.
#17.2 (Edited 450d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
strigoi814  +   450d ago
They should worry more about their future rather than whinning about second hand games..

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