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PS4 Release Date Is Unlikely To Be A Joyous Day For Fans Of Used Games

iDigitalTimes:

We still don't know much about the PS4 release date, outside of the Holiday 2013 launch window revealed back in February. However, the future of the second-hand games market is looking increasingly grim as yet another notable game developer jumps on the anti-used game bandwagon following the console manufacturer's near-abandonment of the used game "cause".

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NastyLeftHook01588d ago

because nobody would have traded them in yet.

1588d ago
fermcr1587d ago

The next gen console that doesn't allow used games, I'll not purchase. Simple as that.

... unless, the prices of new games go way way down, well below the 60-70€ price we have now.

HammadTheBeast1587d ago

The PS4 has already been confirmed by Sony to be able to run disc based games on any console, even after multiple uses.

CBaoth1587d ago

I never do. I always buy either through digital downloading or new (physical retail) so I ALWAYS support the people who make it. I'll never give a dime to scummy leeches who profit off of other's hard work!

I just don't see the need for "used" when a little patience usually gets me the price I like. Example, Target had Ni No Kuni on sale for $39.99 last week. I used a gift certificate leftover from Xmas and got it brand new for $12. Sony, Level 5, and Namco benefited from my purchase and I got a 120hr playthru; literally 10 cents an hour!

nukeitall1587d ago (Edited 1587d ago )

@CBaoth:

I don't see how reselling used games are "scummy leeches"?

They do an honest business just like used book and music sellers. The law even has a "first sale doctrine" to protect consumers and allow for used resale.

If anything, these developers are the slimy scumbags to that wants to repeatedly earn a profit for something they already got their share.

Imagine if other parts of the industry behaved the same way?

If you buy gold, diamond, car, house or anything secondhand, the manufacturer gets a cut for no work!

On the flip side, used game sellers take a risk on buying the game back, hiring employees, a place to do business and pay taxes.

So I ask again, who are the leeches?

Don't let these developers/publishers fool you into being their megaphone! :D

That said, I don't buy my games used. In fact, I don't buy any gaming stuff used, but do I want others to have the option. It's just *fair*!

lilbrat231587d ago

I for one don't own used games for PS3 as I always believed Gamestop was a ripoff. Now If they don't allow used games the price better drop to $40 or $50 for new games.

thechosenone1586d ago

(this site is intentionally reporting false information in order to get hits, please report this story as fake)

Inaccurate info, Sony has repeatedly and clearly stated that the PS4 will not blocked used games at all. It will leave that decision up to the devs/publishers but the PS4 hardware will not automatically block used games.

GameSpawn1586d ago

@nukeitall

Honest business?! Seriously you realize used games retailers rip you the hell off right? Used games are a racket.

Gamestop is buying those games for $5-$20 and reselling them at $5 less than a new retail version. Gamestop stands to make $30-$40 PROFIT off used games versus $10-20 on new ones. All this so you can save $5-$10 from buying it new? For games with online passes you can kiss any of that savings goodbye.

I disowned Gamestop years ago and have been getting my games (all new) via Amazon; most after they've been out a while and seen massive price drops, even on new copies. There is the added bonus of no sales tax with Amazon over Gamestop as well (for those outside the US - online retailers with no physical retail presence, an actual physical store, are not required to charge sales tax).

On top of the highway robbery that used game retailers are getting away with, the developers don't see a red cent beyond online pass and DLC sales.

So, who do we have to thank for loads of on-disc day 1 downloadable content and online passes? Places like Gamestop and their ridiculous practices.

I hate being the devil's advocate, but I can understand developers' and publishers' frustrations with used game sales and how on a very grand scale (like Gamestop) it can undermine true game sales thus effecting future prospects in related game projects sometimes causing a future game to be cancelled altogether.

crazysammy1586d ago

@Game Spawn

Not all used stores are GameStop. I buy new releases for 25-30 dollars and sell them for 44.99 (or cheaper if online passes are required and used). How is that a racket? I run an honest business and do not scam my customers. I offer a service that many people appreciate.

Not everyone can buy every game for full price when it comes out. What developers/publishers don't understand is that you would rather have your game in the hands of a customer than not at all, even if they bought it used. It is a gateway to more purchases in the future. Its advertising.

This hatred of the used market isn't good, and I understand that GS has set a bad example for how the market can work. However please don't lump us all in together and treat us like we are criminals. It is NO DIFFERENT than used cars, books, music, dvds, houses, etc.

CBaoth1586d ago

consumers who sell their goods are scummy leeches? I called Gamestop and pawn shops who PROFIT off of other's work dirtbags. Learn to read! Devs and Pubs are closing down right and left while Gamestops are opening stores on every block in every city. And you call me a megaphone?

@ Crazy Sammy - good points my good sir. I'm glad you're not fleecing your consumers. But you know you are a beacon of honesty in a sea of corruption, right? So I apologize if I offended you by painting you with such a broad stroke.

GameSpawn1586d ago

crazysammy

I understand that not every used game retailer is ripping their customers off. Smaller "mom and pop" stores tend to be more honest and live with smaller margins. It's unfortunate that they get dragged down with corporate a-holes such as GameStop.

Sadly though, the honest only make up the few. The biggest players in the used game market and the ones who have the greatest stake in it are those like GameStop. Why? Because they rip their customers off and the high profit margins just make them more and more successful and controlling. It happened to Microsoft in the OS business. It's happening now to Apple in the computer market.

Eventually every company grows so big in its market that it can't grow anymore and it either branches out or collapses. The problem though is what does that do to everyone else involved, the customers, the competition?

In the case of the used game market...honest used game resellers (such as yourself) get a bad rap and gamers suffer the backlash from publishers trying to recoup their losses in new game sales. It sucks, but it's reality.

If you're a small operation and you and your customers have a great relationship, even personal relationship with each other, then keep doing what you're doing. Make sure your customers don't feed the bigger fish and educate them on your business and the not so honest competition's business. Help them spot signs of dishonest retailers vs the honest ones and make sure they support only the good ones. If not, those fish will only get bigger and bigger and their actions will only have a greater impact on the community...good or bad.

MYDEATH211586d ago

Don't pay any attention to this article. -_- Sony had already confirmed that the ps4 will play used games about a week after the 2/20 Sony event

Gaming1011586d ago

I know right, if you want to take away my right to sell my property, I won't buy it, simple as that. I'll become a PC gamer and torrent my games like every other PC gamer out there claiming to have a huge cost advantage to PC gaming lol

Boody-Bandit1586d ago (Edited 1586d ago )

I myself rent more than I purchase new. I don't see a need to purchase when certain genres I will blow through in a few days and move on to the next title.

I myself wont support any console that wont support used games. I want what I purchase to have resale value. Sooner or later most games lose their allure.

Sony wont go this route next generation. They are sticking with physical media.

rainslacker1586d ago

@GameSpawn

Blaming GameStop is just a red herring in all this debate. GameStop provides a service, and it's damn obvious that many people find that service useful...otherwise where would they get their used games from.

You don't like their practices, don't use them to trade your games. Tell others of better options. Simple as that. Don't give up your consumer rights so easily because you have a dislike for one aspect of the larger market, and don't presume to speak for the millions of people who don't want more restrictions put on games in the interest of taking down the evil GameStop.

I find it ironic that you lament how much they make off of used games, but then completely disregard how little they make off of new games compared to the regular retail mark ups. Who do we blame for that? What's even sadder is that you even point out how much they make off new games. Somewhere between 15-30% markup. In retail that is just a pathetic sum to recoup compared to the cost of a retail establishment.

I don't approve of GameStop's trade in practices any more than you do. But I also don't approve of retailers being shafted in the interest of publisher benefit. The retailer plays an important role in the grand scheme of things, and no matter how much you may dislike their practices, when we buy something it should be ours to own and do with as we please. If I choose to sell to GameStop(or anyone else for that matter), then I sure as hell don't want the original developer or publisher telling me that I can not, because as far as I'm concerned, they already received the money for that game from my original purchase.

ALLWRONG1586d ago

So you guys have a problem with these kinds of rumors now?

InTheZoneAC1586d ago (Edited 1586d ago )

@fermcr "... unless, the prices of new games go way way down, well below the 60-70€ price we have now."

who pays $91-$107 for a game?

0ut1awed1586d ago

You wanted the PS4 to be a sweet PC? Wish granted. No used game system.

Welcome to the club of us pc gamers... There are pros and cons to everything.

MoveTheGlow1586d ago

"I'll never give a dime to scummy leeches who profit off of other's hard work!"

@CBaoth, ask Richard Garriott what EA did to Ultima 9 to maximize profit elsewhere. Check out the fight between Activision and Zampella/Ward over Call of Duty. Experience the amount of marketing risk-aversion Ken Levine had to compromise with just to get his game out there. See what EA coerced Maxis into doing with the beloved SimCity franchise. Watch in astonishment as EA carries on the exploitation of non-paid student athletes by making money off of their images and names in college sports games. Weep for your beloved game creators.

Game developers, artists, designers, engineers, testers - the guys and girls behind the scenes, making the games - they deserve as much money as possible for their work. But just like the state of other entertainment industries at the moment, you're not paying much to those guys. You're paying for risk-aversion market research, pushy PR, often dreadful advertising which imagines consumers as mindless idiots, executive pay, etc. I get that new game sale metrics keep franchises running (granted, those metrics are screwed up on digital sales way beyond the point that they should be), but don't act like you're throwing sixty bucks at no one but the development studio when you buy a new game. The first-sale doctrine is all we've got on the consumer's end; don't demonize it while it's still here.

Fat Bastard1586d ago

You know what I hate? When people buy food at grocery stores! All those grocery stores do is buy food from wholesalers, who only buy that food from the farmers! Anyone who doesn't buy food directly from the farmer is an awful person, because the farmer isn't getting that money! The grocery store is, and they're just selling other people's goods! How detestable

insomnium21586d ago

I buy my games brand new for 20€ or so. Far cry 3 and Borderlands 2 have been approaching that pricepoint ever since launch. You could even buy them for 20€ each during a sale a few weeks ago. The only problem I have is with time management. I have a 7 months old baby (and 2 older kids) and I have 2 jobs (one for weekends every now and then and the other for mo-fri).

Atm the only time I can play videogames is during the drive to work (if I'm not doing the driving) or on weekends when I'm not working.

I took a few weekends off a while back and got some time in in BF3 and boy was it fun.

Wait how did I end up here? Oh yeah the games. I always buy new but not at full price unless it's a must have. Next day 1 will be TLOU for me. Ni No Kuni was the latest day 1 but still. Usually onlu 20-25€ so yeah not that bad.

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avengers19781587d ago

Sony already squashed this rumor back in feb, the only console were not sure is the nextbox, but honestly we no nothing about nextbox... I can't see them blocking used games either.
I don't see used games hurting the industry at all... In fact if not for used games I never would have played games like boarderlands and that caused me to go wait in line a midnight for the release of boarderlands2 day one purchase

MikeMyers1587d ago

It would be silly for Microsoft to go solo in this area but then again they went solo in charging to play online. We also don't know all the details about the PS4. This is exactly what they said:

“When you purchase the disc based games on PS4, that should work on any hardware,” Yoshida confirmed.

A loophole could be a verification process that makes sure you are the rightful owner of that disc. It is unlikely but also a possibility. So until we get all the details I'm not too worried.

MultiConsoleGamer1587d ago (Edited 1587d ago )

>Sony squashed anti used game rumors

Actually they didn't. They later claimed that "It's a publisher decision. We are not talking about it. Sorry.” This comment was made after questions were raised about the ps4 containing technology that would lock a disc to a single console.

Publishers are the biggest supporters of blocking used games. And if the decision is being left up to the publishers, and Sony isn't talking, well... You figure it out.

extermin8or1586d ago

yeah but if the console itself isn't blocking it, then software based DRM/anti used games is nothing new... and in that situation it's not Sony that we need to have ago at but the publishers choosing to go down that route.Sony said there would be nothing stopping a disc physically being read by other consoles etc and they personally wouldn't be stopping people but as for if publishers might they didn't want to discuss it....

cyguration1586d ago

@MultiConsoleGamer

Please l2read:
http://www.cinemablend.com/...

Apparently MS shills are trying to keep misinformation spreading to damage Sony's brand. Multiple Sony reps have REPEATEDLY said that the PS4 will support used games, and they've been doing so since last year.

Fanboys...smh.

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dcbronco1586d ago

@nukeitall

Companies like Gamestop are leeches because they have no talent. They scavenge other peoples work for their gain. And they cheat the person that is selling them the game too. I can't understand how people see developer after developer go out of business and think that the developers are just trying to get more money. Going out of business doesn't make you more money. It all stops. Best Buy and Amazon are a little better on the customer side, but still don't help the developer at all.

If people think used games are so important, then why is it that they don't also believe that used games hurt the developer. If used games are selling to so many. That means they are selling games that people want. And if they want them and had no choice they would get them from the developer. And that developer would make more money.

This isn't about the developer getting paid more than once. This will help and hurt them. For developers that make games that people love, they will do even better. For those that make games that sell okay, they will remain about the same. For those that make poor games, they will disappear faster. Nothing will change that much. But for all developers, if you get a hit, you will benefit to the fullest.

I also don't understand the belief that there will be huge drops in prices. Digital will save a lot of money. But cost are also going up also. Selling more copies only keeps developers from going out of business. If you want variety, new IP, longer games cheaper cost on some games(less than AAA), you have to support blocking used games.

whoyouwit041586d ago

That's a bunch of bull shit. I don't see how anyone sits there and agree with developers on blocking used games. This is coming from someone who has (out of 20+ years of gaming) only bought one used game. so, obviously it's not a big deal for me one way or another, but it just boils down to greedy ass developers. Since you think it's OK go out and buy in old house or car. Fixed it up, and advertise it with your money, and see how you fill when the manufacture of the house/vehicle comes asking for there cut.

The only problem I have with used games is the way game stop gives you 5/20$, and then turn around and sell it for 45$. Well to be honest 20$ is fine for me regardless of what they resale it for, It's that 5$ thing that's a killer.

pabadamus11586d ago (Edited 1586d ago )

@dcbronco

I agree with you in part but not in whole. I was never a proponent of Gamestop's practices to repurchase newly released games at a 12th or a 3rd of their full retail price to then resell at 90% of that full retail price. The margin was too great to me and it appeared to be absolutely anti-consumer. On the other hand if people are willing to do this in full knowledge then that is their choice. Even more important to the whole issue is the consumer's rights to sell their property they have purchased through lawful means. That choice should never be taken away. This can all change if the nature of the relationship changes between content creators and consumers next gen from product ownershp to that of licensed agreement/distribution model.

rainslacker1586d ago (Edited 1586d ago )

GameStop is a retail store. As such, there is no talent involved. They sell a product, nothing more, nothing less. It is not up to the retail environment to create the product in which they sell, only to sell the product they deem reasonable to sell. I do not require my CSR's at GameStop to have talent to take my money, and hand me a game. It's a pretty simple process.

Dev's aren't going out of business because of the used game market. I call BS on that bit of hyperbole. If this was in fact true, then the data should be readily available to back up that argument, but I challenge you to go out and find any such data. I mean hard evidence that a games 2nd hand sales is damaging to original sales numbers. Those numbers are surely available given the advent of online technologies and are likely readily available to all these companies who make games. So why aren't they backing up these claims with cold hard facts? I'll even give you the benefit of the doubt and assume every used sale equals one lost new sale.

BTW, this is the reason I don't believe that it hurts developers. There is just no data to back up this claim.

"And if they want them and had no choice they would get them from the developer. And that developer would make more money."

Ah choice.

It seems you believe that the consumer...which I assume you are...should have their choices taken away from them. Here's a thing for you. A game restricts my ability to resell it later, I choose not to buy it, no matter how much I want it. So, they lose one paying customer to try and hopefully get another? This is coming from someone who buys new unless no other option is available. This is from someone who NEVER sells their games to anyone.

Why is it if this debate came up in any other form of entertainment, people would completely ridicule the idea? Why should the game industry(or software in general) be immune from the first sale doctrine? Is it because of some perceived notion that companies are closing because of the 2nd hand market. Could it be that studios are making less and less of a game, disillusioning consumers to the point where they just don't feel it's worth it anymore?(BTW, historically this led to an industry wide crash). I find this much more likely considering that game sales in general are down.

Lets look at Square. They set extremely high targets for their games. Are you telling me that Tomb Raider, which has been out for a month has suffered drastically in sales(despite selling quite a lot), because of 2nd hand sales? Couldn't it just be bad business practices, or improper management that causes these devs to be shut down? Or will you continue to blindly ignore all the issues that get talked about every day to get on a soapbox for the dev in which our rights as consumers are just stripped away even further?

InTheZoneAC1586d ago

games have always been about the same price, going back to the 80's, when people were making 400%+ less than what they're making now

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DivineAssault 1586d ago

Ya, a good 6 months into the systems life, more things will be available for purchase at used game stores.. If devs decide to block used games on PS4 it would be very unfortunate & i would be VERY picky about what games i decide to buy.. Hard to take back or exchange new games once theyre opened

dcbronco1586d ago

@whoyouwit04

So you think developers are just being greedy? So many of them are so greedy that they have gone out of business. You've been a gamer for 20+ years. How many companies have you watched go out of business. I've seen a lot in my 30+. Many never got beyond a hit or two. That's understandable. Gamers always talk about new IP, but if developers can't make enough profit they have to continue to use outside sources to fund games. Which means they can't take risk. To put it simply, if your on N4G and read all of the articles of developers going out of business(THQ being a current example), you just don't want to get it. You just want what you want and couldn't care less about what it takes to get it.

@pabadamus1

There is a huge problem in your argument. And this goes toward the house argument Whoyouwit made. Consumer rights only go so far in a situation where the thing being sold doesn't degrade. A house is not the main thing being sold in most home sales. It's the land that is important. Many houses sit on land that is worth 3 or 4 times what the house is worth. And more often than not, homes go up in value not down. Games are also different in that they don't degrade in quality over time. Most other things do. If you take basic care of the disc it is the same on day 1,000 as it is on day one.

A car that's three years old will have lost a ton of value. A game has really lost none of it's quality. Cars are sold at a much larger profit. Games are not. A dealer gets a car from the manufacturer for much less than the cost to you. In fact the dealer can often sell the car to you for well under invoice and still make a profit because of incentives he gets from the manufacturer. Games don't have that much profit built in.

I don't buy the Quantum Dreams statements about Sony's profits. If you put 40 million in and make 100 million(I know it was Euros) I believe the profit is very small if there is a profit. As publisher Sony can skip some of the cost to themselves like $10 in royalties and publisher fees. Most developers don't get to do that. Of $60, ten goes to Sony off the top. Let's go with 20% business tax so $12. That's twenty-two gone. Let's say all of the packaging and disc duplication and mastering are in the 40 million spent on making the game. But you still have to pay the retail. Transportation of the product. Administrative overhead. A lot of copies weren't sold at full price. Now subtract that 40 million initial investment. Not a lot left. Journey sold really well. They almost went out of business. It's not all greed or stupid management. It's expensive to run a business. Especially when you're dealing with some of the most fickle fans.

All about the exclusives and then they don't buy them. They should block used games and let the market decide. People either really want a game or they will wait til the price goes down. Games like CoD sell 2 or 3 million the first week. They'll be fine. People keep them more than a week and used copies are only $5 less. Sales are far better than used. I'm sure they want used games blocked. They will gain a bunch of sales. They have rights too.