Former Eat Sleep Play boss David Jaffe has said developers need to stop whining about the evils of publisher interference and instead get good enough to avoid it all together.
well, duh. We still hate them though.
It's like this with everything. The people funding the project think they know how to make things sell well, they're only interested in making back their money. This happens with movies, tv shows, everything where there is an external party funding the project. There are rare cases where the person doing the work has already proven themselves, so they tend to be left alone when doing their thing. Louis CK makes his TV show with literally zero input from Comedy Central, because he has told CC that he won't do the show if they know the script, who the actors are, or anything about the show. CC sees the show at the same time the public does. Crazy it seems, but creative people want to be left alone to create what they want without outside forces telling them to change their vision.
I'm not sure that they think they know best. They know what the trend of the week is and want a copy for quick cash. They don't care about innovation or being different. They just want more money. Which is why they should stay away from the business. I do like the way Louis CK stood his ground and made them come to him. I don't think people should fund things they don't love. They will make far more money if they actually cared about the things they fund. It would give them more insight into what would actually work and it would push their love forward. The reality is in the past most great artist aren't recognized until long after they are gone. I'd rather make something that stands the test of time then make a lot of money.
I think it is a cop out to say publishers (or investors if you may) are only in it for the money. Keep in mind that investors want "return on investment *LONG TERM*". I would like to see you guys talking about "creative freedom" with others money, invest your own money and take those kind of risks. How about the developers show their love for their art, by getting a cut of the profit pie and take significantly less pay? An engineer earns around $60k to well over hundreds of thousands. Point being, some developers know, and the rest (i.e. vast majority) if given free reign would create a crappy game. That is why you have business people do business, and developers create games. It's a balance! Now to put that into perspective, people complain about CoD, year after year, but year after year it sells better and better even at the tail end of the cycle. If you listen to developers and core gamers talking smack about CoD, we would have a game suitable for the niche market.
I'm getting fed up of all the "it's a business" statements to justify what developers/publishers put out. On the reverse side of things, we're gamers, and as gamers when we are seeing a worrying trend, we're going to be outspoken about something we're so passionate about.
Gamers are not one big community, we have all different factions and there is rarely one subject we all fight on the same side. You have PC elitists moaning that games are being developed on consoles and then ported to PC. You have Sony fanboys upset because Xbox get DLC before them. You see American PS3 users moan that EU playstation plus is better then the U.S. Despite the fact the U.S has far more content compared to EU. Infact Countrt Strike is STILL not on the EU store. It's very much like how the private and public sector in the UK is. The public sector has a better pension then the private sector, but isn't paid as well, Infact its had a pay freeze for the past 7 years (despite the cost of living going up). Yet when the public sector strikes to try and correct this the private sector, rather then fighting with us, moan that we shouldn't complain as we have a better pension. Gamers are the same. We moan about what effects us but don't when it doesn't.
"Infact Countrt Strike is STILL not on the EU store. " Horrible example as that game should be played on PC.
i think theres a difference in being funded to make something the publisher wants over being funded to make something the publisher believes in. If a publisher believes in you and your team (studio) then nothing should come from them except the dollar bills and support. When publishers start butting in, it's probably because something isn't good or they simply, needed you to make them something. In that case, you can't be mad at the publisher for essentially, being a boss.
It's common sense when a publisher is funding the project they have creative control over the developers work
@nyc gamer Thats true unfortunatley but the artist should never be told what to put on their canvas once the game is greenlighted then the devs should be left to express themselves, its like a football team owner picking players over the manager... its just stupid, this gen its happening far too often with exception of games like heavy rain.
But then you have a situation where a developer goes nuts with your money. You make an investment, it's your money on the line. Although EA is irritating me with what they're doing to DICE.
Then why hire an established developer if you aren't going to trust them to make a product for you? Why not just start your own development studio with your own budget-conscious people if you are so worried about what a different developer might do with your money? If you hire someone like say DICE, BioWare, Insomniac, etc., then obviously you have enough faith/trust in those developers to make a good game that will sell a decent amount(after all, you just hired them), so why not just let them do what know how to do best? They know what they're doing more than some publisher. Publishers believe that they can make those developers "better" once they acquire them, so why not just build a studio from the ground up themselves since they believe they know so much better? If you're not going to hire someone to do what they're good at doing (or alter everything about the method they use to be great at that job), then you shouldn't hire them for that job at all.
And yet they still need - as in have a total lack of - understanding that measures they're putting in place, DLC and DRM, have crippled how games are being made today.
I find it annoying when people state the obvious. Of course it's business, but with that said, it doesn't make it any less annoying.
David Jaffe is the man
Ask thatgamecompany how it is to work under Sony. Then, come back and tell me how publishers can't give devs breathing room.
yea they got that breathing room and they were overbudget and nearly bankrupt during development. . .
and then ask Zipper. Wait let me do that for you: "Seth wanted to get Socom 4 as many basic elements as he could, but the wrath of Sony is just too powerful." "Sony wanted to appeal to the broad audience from the beginning of Socom 4 development and Zipper could not deny what Sony wanted."
Source? Just out of interest...
Whatever Jaffe...easier said than done. Kind of reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/wat...
What i don't like is these companies see something successful and instead of keeping the original basis for that success they come in and change and streamline everything that appealed to the original audience to grab a more casual friendly audience in their quest for greed they end up losing money
Nah, you can't just let these publishers be the gatekeepers of what gets put out there. I mean think of the CoD franchise. The same shit year in year out, the same fetishising of warfare as well as the glorification of the state of war- rendering it into entertainment. Shooting hundreds of innocent people in an airport, and watching a child getting blown-up. All these things are rendered as entertainment in CoD games by a big games corporation. Sure they're disturbing, but they're still within the context of a game and are still there for the sake of a plot and for entertainment value. Yet they continue to commission developers to churn them out because millions of idiots play them. It's so cynical and so socially irresponsible. Just continually releasing ethically and morally questionable content because it entertains people- it entertains people because they've made such an awful thing entertaining in the first place despite how horrible the reality is. A lot of people probably secretly think war is actually like those games. I suppose my point is that publishers can be bad because they often only care about high returns, thus they churn out popular stuff perpetually and carelessly; popular stuff that can be seriously problematic. The bombast and entertainment value of the CoD games seems to blind people to the questionable nature of depicting war as rewarding, fun and entertaining and like a blockbuster film- of depicting weapons as something to be fetishised and obsessed about- All the while also trying to depict warzones and warfare realistically- relating the game to real world politics. It's just really irresponsible, and it's troubling that CoD has such a big place in our culture.
IF you tell an artist what to draw and how to draw it at the same time do not expect a good result.
people should read article. Instead of reacting to snippet. He makes a lot of good not "obvious" points.
Taking more risks is also part of the business and that´s why the Playstation brand was so successful in the 90´s and early 2000´s because practically everyone took risks. Many people enjoyed refreshing games like Red Dead Redemption or Heavy Rain because they were good games and that´s good business.
Coming from the same person who ruined Twisted Metal. Mr. Grimm got turned into some voodoo witch doctor and you only got 3 characters storyline in the campaign. What is he even doing anymore now that Twisted Metal flopped? Making games for iPhone I'm guessing.
Publishers are a double-edged sword. The good ones will allow enough creative freedom so that the developers can truly express their vision, but not so much that they are unrestricted and cause budget and timeline problems. The worst publishers are EA, Activision, and Capcom and thus nothing needs to be said about why they are terrible because we all know why. Publishers are a necessary evil, but it's up to them if they want respect -and the rewards that come with it- or simply money.
Make a decent game then talk. Guy has made a great game since PS2.
Oh sorry Jaffe I just assumed that if I bought a game like Aliens: CM to find out was nothing like the demo and buggy as hell that I had the right to voice my opinions My bad... Douchebag
They are to proud to take the head out of their butts and listen to the community of gamers that actually play games.
This coming from an established name from an established studio. Does he not realize how hard it is to get your start in games today? So many people want to enter game development and become the next Notch, thus finding funding or a publisher willing to even take a glance at your title is difficult enough. Even worse is getting the press' attention.
awwww...now that jaffe talk..all the cheerleaders..shut up ahahah dat fanboys.....r fantastics cmon now...i wanna see the same words used for cliff ps. before some fanboys forgot... jeffe is behind all the god of war till the 3
Once again he expresses an opinion that makes me lose respect for him. It doesn't always work out that way, even the successful ones end up powerless to have their creative freedom. David Sears would be a good example and to really have an idea what publishers are doing the following link is a must-read. http://www.sofstudios.com/p...
Says so from the guy who made like what... 2 games which were good? God of War and Twisted Metal 2? Jaffe is a good director, he's just not THAT damn good to talk like he's the best and how he seems to want to be right at everything he says. So if this AGD guy can't have his own oppinion but Jaffe instead can and justify his as being the end-all discussion piece? Hmmm.
I miss the golden era of gaming back when people in the business kept their mouths shut and did their jobs instead of ranting on the net
Gamers have nothing to talk about unless they're hating on some random company or the next for absolutely no reason at all.
I am sorry I will hold companies accountable for their own actions. Business or not parents, gamers, consumers need to be aware of their poor practices and money grabs with broken games...
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