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Kojima: “Killzone Looks Very Traditional”

"Killzone looks very traditional; it probably won’t change very much. it will probably be similar to what you’ve seen before"

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Gimmemorebubblez1171d ago (Edited 1171d ago )

If it aint broke, don't fix it.

However with that said I hope that Killzone:SF is more like 2 than 3.
Kojima mentions storytelling and although Killzone has had some moments, overall the story is average. Im hoping for tight, intriguing story on the next Killzone and Gameplay that requires the player to be skilled.

Pope_Kaz_Hirai_II1171d ago (Edited 1171d ago )

I doubt fps are kojima, s type of game I think he wouldnt like killzone , cod bf ect

Xyla1171d ago (Edited 1171d ago )

i cant wait for killzone shadow fall the best looking game to date on any platform. a game utilizing so little amount of ram compared to crysis 3 utilizing 8gbs of ram for highest quality and killzone shadow fall looks better. i cant imagine what the end product of killzone shadow fall will look like when its finished because in its alpha stage at the moment it looks amazing.

ps4 is an amazing system so if you think about its design and how it uses 8gbs of gddr5 ram readily available for the cpu and gpu its awesome.rumour has it that 1gb will be used for cpu and 7 for gpu but its still amazing when you consider that 1gb of gddr5 ram alone is very fast and effiecient. The entire edge of PS4 comes from the fact that both chips are sitting on the same die and are sharing memory.

"consider streaming a texture on PC. First, the VRAM memory is “unlocked”, which means a duplicate storage space is created in RAM.

Then the texture data is read from HDD and copied over to RAM. Then the texutre is “locked,” which involves copying contents of texture in RAM over to VRAM via the PCIe bus. This is the biggest bottleneck on PC. On PS4 it is completely eliminated. Data is streamed from HDD or disk directly into shared memory.

Or say you want destructible environment in a PC game. You can either run physics on CPU, which isn’t terribly fast, and then you have to update geometry buffers in graphics memory. Or you can run all of the physics in GPU, altering geometry directly there, but then you have to pull it out into RAM so that your path finding and AI can use it.

Either way, you end up managing geometry both in VRAM and in RAM. Updating both copies constantly via the same PCIe bus. Again, a major bottleneck.

On PS4, you have just one copy of geometry sitting in lightning fast GDDR5 memory and both GPU and CPU have access to it. So either processor can be running physics, depending on which is more convenient, with GPU running graphics and CPU running AI all from the same geometry."

i cant wait for the ps4

LAWSON721169d ago

@xyla
just wow you are a hardware pro

MikeMyers1169d ago

This is one of my concerns going into next gen. and that is the reliance on familiar franchises and lack of creativity. Of course some people want to play those games on new hardware which is fine but I also want to see more commitment for new IP's.

Ron_Danger1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

Here's the whole quote since 95% in this section won't read the article: “ I think it depends on the people creating the games. for example, Killzone looks very traditional; it probably won’t change very much. it will probably be similar to what you’ve seen before. but if the creators are very conscious of all the social aspects, and working that into their method of storytelling, then i think we’ll see some very interesting things happen. i think, at the very least, next gen broadens the possibilities of what can be done with storytelling.“

Keep in mind we are comparing a Japanese developer verses a European developer. KZ is an action game series with cutscenes thrown in. MG is a cinematic with gameplay thrown in. Neither of which is bad. I've owned every Killzone and every (Playstation) released Metal Gear. I love both and know that they are too different to compare.

delboy1169d ago

@Xyla

How come the mighty ps4 can't properly run a TECH DEMO of UE4, not a game, a simple tech demo.
A tech demo is like a real time movie but without Ai, procedural physics and all the other stuff needed for a real working game?
Don't come with "not enough time to optimize" bulshit answer, what's there to optimize on a so called dev friendly machine based on known x86 architecture.

Eyeco1169d ago

why is it whenever someone talks about the Killzone games it's always about graphics ?

It's like people admit these games have nothing else going for them, and you know what there right. I'm a PS fan but KZ is easily the most disappointing PS franchise to me. If it weren't for the graphics NO ONE would care about these games.

It's a mediocre FPS's franchise, that offer the complete barebones of a game package, people like to bash COD and Halo, and you know they have there points to an extent, but those games offer the player so much more in content, thats what I've never liked the KZ games, lack of content, 4 hour rail shooter campaign,horrible story, unbalanced multiplayer, unless Shadow Fall fixes these issues I will not be buying the game.

Ezz20131169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

@delboy
why don't you read what EPIC them self said about that Demo:

"Update:
Brian Karis, senior graphics programmer at Epic Games adds some more insight in the comments below, explaining some of the more obvious differences - particularly in terms of the very different lighting schemes. At the technical level, the two demos are closer than it seems:

"The biggest changes actually came from the merging of two separate cinematics, the original Elemental and the extended Elemental we showed at PS4's launch event. Each had different sun directions and required some compromises to join them. This resulted in some major lighting differences that aren't platform related but were due to it being a joined cinematic. Another effect, in the original you could see the mountains through the door where in the merged one we made the view through the door white since the mountains outside were no longer the same. Same deal with the mountain fly by. The old mountain range doesn't exist in the new one. These changes from the merge make direct comparisons somewhat inaccurate.

"Feature wise most everything is the same, AA resolution, meshes, textures (PS4 has tons of memory), DOF (I assure you both use the same Bokeh DOF, not sure why that one shot has different focal range), motion blur.

"Biggest differences are SVOGI has been replaced with a more efficient GI solution, a slight scale down in the number of particles for some FX, and tessellation is broken on ps4 in the current build which the lava used for displacement. We will fix the tessellation in the future.""

scroll down to the end of the article to read the Update
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

now, here come the disagrees :D

also this is by far the worst looking Tech demo on ps4
EPIC them self admit it's their fault for this rushed demo...but hey, keep blame PS4.

Oh_Yeah1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

Yeah Asians in general arnt really into fps...As you can see by vg chartz sales. Probably has to do with there being little to no gun culture over there as they made guns illegal for citizens.. Where as fps are the highest selling in USA where it's the opposite.

Azfargh1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

Eyeco:

I AGREE WITH YOU! And that is coming from a Killzone fan (yeah... some paradox, huh?)

The first one had a special imersion... charismatic characters and different gameplay with each characters and pre-animated melee attacks for different weapons! Yes, tons of bugs and terrorizing gliches, and still, tolerable.

The second felt strange for a KZ1 fan... it´s charming, beautiful, imersive (in a different way than Kz1), but mediocre, nonetheless... fun multiplayer though. Best mp I´ve played.

Third is a huge stepback. Nothing of Kz1 or 2 charm or feel, awful campaign, strange sound volume calibration (voices on cutscenes where skyhigh, musics that doesn´t fit to the cutscenes, great actors, awful and predictible plot, un-interesting characters, lack of weapons... the graphics felt tone-down a bit... multiplayer suffered cuts from the second game. Why?

Doesn´t agree that Kz games wasn´t that good as most of the fanboys says it was? Fine... the worldwide sales count can surely say. I don´t know why Sony keep funding this bastards... Although, Mercenary feels fresh until now... why? because it´s not the original Guerrilla Studios. Give Kz to Santa Monica or any other real TOP studios with high sales/awards record from SONY, then, you´ll might see a much more attractive and refreshing Kz title!

KZ universe, art and design is full of potential! Overflowing with it! And title after title, Guerilla just aren´t being able to be popular as Halo, Valve fps titles, etc etc... no matter if it´s different, there is no excuse: a good title can sell or can have praise and awards, both from critic and public.

So... here the facts:
-High budget, low selling rate
-Few to no Awards, Critic and Public
-Lowest impact/influence in game industry
-Great team, awful direction

Now I wonder how great it would be IF Kojima or Valve guys directed a Kz game... now THATs something.

Batzi1169d ago

@pope_kaz:
Kojima loved COD4 and met with Infinity Ward developers.

Eyeco1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

It's not that I hate the Killzone games, it's that IMO none of them were ever as good as they could have been, IMHO the Killzone games are everything that's wrong with shooters today, they either never tick all the boxes, or tick all the boxes rather than create new ones.

The reason why I'm so harsh on the franchise is because I know they could be better, I honestly think the franchise would not only sell allot better, but gather better critical review if they just did the following.

* BETTER STORY JESUS CHRIST, are likeable characters too much to ask ?

*Lengthy campaign at LEAST 8 hours, with decent more open level design, not just some rail shooter like 3 was, KZ3 felt like Time Crisis, not a shooter.

*2 player online co-op, why this wasn't in the last 2 games is beyond me.

* 4 player separate online co-op like in Uncharted 2-3 or even Resistance 2

* Replay value, in first 2 Uncharted games you could unlock cheats.

* Go back to what made KZ2 online great and add to it.

* More weapons, everyone goes for the ISA rifle because it's the most useful gun in the game, the Helghast rifle especially in number 2 BLOWS completely ineffective, in fact all of the Helghast weapons SUCK.

* Customizable weapons, like in MGS 4 and COD

* More than 8 maps please, doesn't COD offer 16 maps minus DLC ? it's completely ludicrous that this game is trying to compete with the best shooters on the market with less than half the content.

* Forge mode or level editor

* Theatre Mode, come on Uncharted has this, COD, Halo have this why doesn't Killzone ?

* Improved party system, the party system in KZ3 was horrendous.

* Get rid of the KZ3 infiltrator class, a complete pain in the ass/ bring back KZ2 tactition ability to throw spawn points, they made the class completely useless in 3.

* A survival/horde/ zombie mode, again these are industry standards EVERY SHOOTER should have these.

* More game modes please

* Vehicles in Online please, I'm sick and tired of ground shooters, Halo and Battlefield offer a wide variety of ways to engage combat.

Someone please tell me that wouldn't make a better game, most of those are industry standards and have been in FPS for years. I have very Hight standards when it comes to shooters If KZ-Shadow Fall has at least half of what's listed I MIGHT consider purchasing it.

IcyEyes1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

As usual ... Kojima talk too much ... and I'm pretty curious to know how much he is REALLY involved now ... he is everywhere around the world, at any events, etc ... I wonder when he found the time to do his job.

Maybe you don't know, but create a game is such an hard and time consuming work ...

Ps I REALLY hope the new MSG will be awesome,
but *this* Kojima is NOT the same of the old, real, MSG.

sikbeta1169d ago

next gen graphics, last gen gameplay...

dcbronco1169d ago

@Xyla

You're right about the way both parts use the address space. But this isn't unique PS4 technology. This will work the same way in future AMD APUs. This has been their roadmap for a few years. It goes even further if you look at AMDs map. Beyond what the PS4 and 720 will probably be capable of. SO the consoles will have a very short window on that tech, if any. The next APUs to release this year or early next will include it. So a tablet might beat the 720 and PS4 to that particular tech.

But the console will be a proving ground for AMD to show what APUs can do if the software is actually made to take advantage of them.

Nate-Dog1169d ago

To add to what Batzi said, Kojima was a big fan of Battlefield 3 also and has previously said that he might some day like to make an FPS game of his own.

meetajhu1169d ago

Really? When was the last time you played MGS game without using fps mode to shoot

nukeitall1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

@Xyla:

"consider streaming a texture on PC. First, the VRAM memory is “unlocked”, which means a duplicate storage space is created in RAM."

You kind of forget a very important fact. On PC, the bottleneck isn't the CPU/GPU, but often times the hard drive speed, then subsequently the stream of data via the bus.

On a console, the hard drive speed problem still exist, but in addition the console problem is almost complete opposite. The CPU/GPU on the console is significantly gimped, that means that the bandwidth isn't the bottleneck.

Point being, 8GB GDDR5 is probably overkill for 1080p gaming which is barely what the console is likely able to do for a while.

On the other hand 8GB of RAM total for a console is probably nice i.e. for background tasks and fast context switching. That said GDDR5 has a latency issue that DDR3 doesn't have. That is why one is used for graphics and the other is used for general purpose.

There is benefits and drawbacks to both RAM types.

That said, yes having shared memory as you described it is excellent and that is what made the Xbox 360 excellent design. People used to say that shared memory was reserved for
"cheap" integrated graphics, but it turns out it was a genius move of MS.

morganfell1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

I reported this story. Why?

This story intentionally used only a portion of the quote in an action designed to mislead readers, create flamebait and generate hits. Such idiotic reporting that does a disservice to the community by misrepresenting developers should not be rewarded with a published story on N4G.

T3MPL3TON 1169d ago

@Xyla

I've never seen someone talk so much and be so incorrect.

MaxXAttaxX1169d ago

I guess looking at one out of context headline is all it takes for some people.

"" I think we’ll see some very interesting things happen. I think, at the very least, next gen broadens the possibilities of what can be done with storytelling...if the creators are very conscious of all the social aspects, and working that into their method of storytelling ""

oof461168d ago

@Mike Myers: At a console launch, people will buy familiar franchises. This is why all the familiar Sony properties that are being released at launch have subtitles instead of numbers. This way, Sony gives people games they recognize and will most likely buy, without having to rush a sequel.

+ Show (18) more repliesLast reply 1168d ago
SpringHeeledJack1170d ago

Killzone actually has 1 of the best stories in FPS, think most can agree it wipes the floor with bf,cod and halo story wise.

KZ shadowfall is already finished and the testing is being done and that's with old dev kits. It's clear the game was made quick to be a launch title. Ps4 games in a year or 2 after launch is what will really show next gen.

HarryMasonHerpderp1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

They have awesome story's, great villains and a really cool world.
Crap heroes though, I hate the ISA haha.
I want a protagonist I actually care about in the next game instead of all that dude bro rubbish in the previous games.

Perjoss1169d ago

"Killzone actually has 1 of the best stories in FPS"

You can't possibly be serious... I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinion and all, but come on.

blackstrr4111169d ago

All of the above but Halo.

DiRtY1169d ago

Not sure if serious...

Halo has a REALLY deep background story and the novels sell pretty well. Even Sheldon Cooper confirmed it in one episode. That should end the discussion and prove you wrong.

DARK WITNESS1169d ago

You nearly got away with that one... should have left halo out of it and it would have been clean!

specialguest1169d ago

KZ story leans more towards uninspired and cliche. It was the weak point of KZ 2&3.

Good_Guy_Jamal1169d ago

Better story than Halo? Don't make me laugh! The Halo lore is so vast that Killzone's story feels like an episode of Dora the Explorer in comparison.

Eyeco1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

Killzone has a great unique story concept, but overall the games have failed to convey the story and characters in an interesting way and it fails to explore the universe as well.

Where are the women,children, farmers, intellects, workers pet's, houses, schools, shops, any kind of enviroment that indicated this world was inhabited by people living there day to day lives ? Say what you wan't about COD but those games do an excellent job of conveying a real world caught up in a war.

This is a world filled with uniformed soldiers, every single building in the KZ games is just an empty warehouse, there's no indication that people used to live or inhabit this world,it's like this entire world was designed to be a shooting gallery, and the characters my god they have as much personality as a plank of wood,it's a shame such a great sci-fi concept poorly handled.

DARK WITNESS1169d ago

@ Eyeco

I think that was a much better way of putting it.

SpringHeeledJack1169d ago

I'd really check out the killzone story before you judge www.neogaf.com/forum/showthrea d.php?t=517012

Killzone has much more memorable chracters. Visari speeches alone are greater than what halo produces.

@perjoss

Looking at your comments why are you even in playstation news, i doubt you have even played killzone never mind read it's lore.

Belking1169d ago

No way. Halo wipes the floor with killzone story wise. Halo has a much bigger following and its mostly because of the story. Halo has huge book sales and games while killzone only has the game.

GABRIEL10301169d ago

Tecnically Killzone is a marvel, but the story sucks. It's the only game in history of gaming that the principal characters are a group of fools and in the end they killed millions of innocent people, the worst ending, much people hates ISA. A lot of fans are requesting a Helgnan campaign and new factions, worlds and enemies. I played the game only for the online that is amazing. I hope Shadow Fall can improve all these mistakes.

Septic1169d ago

Lmao yeah right. Killzone has one of the best stories? And you're comparing it to Halo and its 1 billion year timeline?

You've got to be trolling.

Azfargh1169d ago

Best stories??? I can agree with the first Kz, where you are actually able to feel some care for the characters.

Now the second felt rushed... killing Visari so soon? No references whatsoever about Hakka or Lugger? That surely feels tackled.

Third is a load of crap. Why there is Jammer? She is totally useless and non-important. Why Rico still feels like an asshole again? Why the cutscenes are sooooo badly done in all the aspects? We´ll never know.

SpringHeeledJack1169d ago

@Septic

Put your handbag away, So someone must be trolling if they prefer the killzone story to the halo one haha learn to accept other views and stop crying.

wishingW3L1169d ago

a good setting yes, a good story? No

Perjoss1169d ago

@ SpringHeeledJack

I played killzone on the ps2, good game but the story is meh, played killzone 2 on my launch ps3 (still have it, the 60g one with backwards compat) hated the controls at first, but they patched them up a bit so it wasn't so sluggish to play. played killzone 3 for about 45 mins and traded it in, it was just more of the same and I wasn't in the mood for it.

So to answer your question, yes i've 'played killzone'.

Pintheshadows1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

Hahahaha, to all the above.

Half. Life.

I can't believe some of you brought up Halo as a counter argument to a FPS with a good story. It is amusing me. It is full of as many cliches and hamfisted exposition as Killzone.

Mainsqueeze1169d ago

@pintheshadows
It's because he mentioned Halo in his first post not Half. Life. reading comprehension ftw. I think almost every gamer in the world would agree that Half Lie has a better story than KZ but thats not part of the discussion.

SpringHeeledJack1169d ago

I agree with half life now that is a epic game and is 1 of the greats hence why i never said kz was better than it because it isn't.

But Killzone is one of the greats, it's not generic space marines like halo. It has more in common with ww2 and hitler with a peoples being suppressed which then led to them rising up and war breaking out, really the helghest are the good guys not the bad guys. So much can be done with story and games.

@Perjoss

"played killzone 2 on my launch ps3 (still have it, the 60g one with backwards compat) hated the controls at first, but they patched them up a bit so it wasn't so sluggish to play. played killzone 3 for about 45 mins and traded it in, it was just more of the same and I wasn't in the mood for it."

Huh you're talking about controls, i said story. The controller issue is a generic complaint very well known and and wasn't a bug but instead made to feel heavy. You give no reason for not liking kz3 except it's more of the same which if you played you would know that's not true, the issues with controls was fixed for that game.

Pintheshadows1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

It wasn't so much that I couldn't read or understand the discussion Mainsqueeze. However in the course of this discussion regarding story in FPS titles me bringing up Half Life is perfectly valid. It just made me laugh when comments were saying that Halo was some magnificent bastion of FPS story telling which it really isn't.

Why o why1169d ago

Resistance had a better story than killzone. Nathan hale and the alternate history.

Thomaticus1169d ago

I like killzone's stor (or Universe rather) , but I feel that it could be told much better. It's just always on the surface, never gets too deep.

MysticStrummer1169d ago

Whether Killzone's story is above average or not, Kojima was talking about gameplay and he's right. I said the same thing after seeing that demo. It looks very nice, but typical.

+ Show (22) more repliesLast reply 1169d ago
Muffins12231170d ago

His right...killzone has never been in the spotlight like another sony ip's or halo...

callahan091169d ago

His comments seem to apply to just about every sequel out there. Certainly all the FPS sequels. Your Halos, your Call of Duties, your Battlefields... Really the only franchise I can think of that has pretty significant differences between certain installments is Final Fantasy, but that isn't exactly a "series" in the traditional sense (in any way other than pure name & number, since the individual entries are actually unrelated, they just use the same title).

Treezy5041169d ago

Killzone 2 was anything but average.

Shikoro1169d ago

It'll be always like that: if someone sucks at a game and can't adapt to the way it plays, they will say that the game sucks, not themselves. Nothing that can be done about it.

They should be happy that they succeeded in taking out the identity out of KZ3, and probably Shadow Fall, with their constant "the controls suck" complaints. I just hope that GG tried to deliver a better story this time around and that the gunplay is at least similar to KZ2. This should make both sides happy - at least I hope so. XD

_QQ_1169d ago

Killzone has very basic gameplay, i don't suck dick at killzone, i played online for a few weeks when both 2/3 came out, i would usually score top 3 every game. The gameplay is really basic like most shooters.

fr0sty1169d ago

Run, duck, cover, shoot, kill enemy, throw grenade, rinse, repeat. Toss in a few QTE's for arming bombs and the like, and you have every Killzone game ever made. Not to hate on them, but they are defined by the most generic terms a shooter ever could be. They still have their audience though, or they wouldn't sell.

I personally would like to see better vehicle integration.

Pintheshadows1169d ago

Run, duck, cover, shoot, kill enemy, throw grenade, rinse, repeat.

I could aim those criticisms at every military based FPS this generation. Including COD4.

Anzil1169d ago

i hope you dont like halo! cause your doing the same shit and from halo 1 - 2 - 3 didnt change that much at all but i will give ya halo 4 cause that game changed up a lot. Dont rip on my halo and please dont rip on my killzone(exept the firsts controls)

irepbtown1169d ago

Battlefield 3 is what you are looking for then.
Heck, the whole Battlefield series is worth taking a look if you want 'better vehicle integration'.

Tanks, Jets, Heli's, Quad bikes, Jeeps (similar), Motorbikes, AC130's, trucks with Missiles on them (forgot name), and tons more.

More On-topic: I loved KZ2, SF looks great. Day one for me :D

Outside_ofthe_Box1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

Koji is spot on here(like he always is). The Shadow Fall demo did look generic in a sense especially if you aren't a KZ fan or just a casual KZ fan. Hardcore KZ fans saw a couple of details in the demo that did look promsing. That said, KILLZONE is about the Multiplayer though(at least for me) I'm waiting for footage on that. The MP better be similar to KZ2 or else no buy for me. The CoDification of KZ3 was very upsetting for me and I definitely will not buy a replication of that.

showtimefolks1169d ago

I loved KZ2 MP but I kind of liked the story of KZ3

there is a huge opportunity for GG to include a campaign for Helghast, everyone I spoken with wants to play as a Helghast soldier and see their side of struggles

I looks stunning but to me it didn't have the WOW factor of KZ2, but this time we are not going from SD to HD so that has a lot to do with it

MP should be more like KZ2 more polished though

Anzil1169d ago

the story was simple and thats why i fuckin loved it! and k3 just felt so tight to me! Hopefully KZ:SF will have deeper characters and story which i think it will cause it seems to be based in that city mostly!

InTheZoneAC1169d ago

tell that to Zipper.

/6 had a good thing going with Socom Confrontation, but the lack of support at the end when the ps3 was getting hacked ruined the game.

Zipper made Socom 4 and it should've been called Generic Third Person Shooter with Respawn & Wack OTS View.

Socom 2, Combined Assault, Confrontation, bring back any Socom like those, please.

ABizzel11169d ago

@gimmem

Completely agree, more like Killzone 2 than 3.

BABY-JEDI1169d ago

I totally agree with you. KZ is a great franchise, but the story telling could be more gritty, real (for a better word). With hopefully characters that have a back story (like resistance 3). That develops through the game. KZ2 was more hardcore. Better game all round as well. ; )

StraightPath1169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

killzone was never considered a premier fps franchise. Just a generic shooter never will be up there with the big triple AAA titles.

killzone 1 was pathetic
killzone 2 was the only decent one.
killzone 3 just tried to cash in on the call of duty hype

while the rest of the spin offs were awful too. Just look at metacritic or sales. this frachise is average and only known for its amazing visuals sadly.

story - nope
gameplay - nope
characters - nope
graphics - yes

killzone 1 - 70%metacritic
killzone 2 - 2% metacritic (huge improvement from a awful start)
killzone 3 - 84% metacritic
killzne liberation - 77% metacritic
killzone hd - 59%

Legion211169d ago (Edited 1169d ago )

"If it aint broke, don't fix it." Then why does everyone complain and say every COD is the same thing. Just because it's working doesn't mean things don't get stale or dated.

Sy_Wolf1169d ago

@Xyla your lack of understanding about technology is astounding.

IK IR Y IP T1169d ago

well the game is hell of broken and needs to be canned c'mon the first one was good 2 and 3 was garbage the visual palete is brown and greys o well every system needs a garbage launch game

Irishguy951169d ago

* "If it's average...don't improve it"

Is what Gimmemorebubblez is trying to say.