530°
Submitted by -Mezzo- 463d ago | opinion piece

The Hidden Problem with PlayStation Plus

Worth Playing - On the surface, PlayStation Plus sounds like a great deal for gamers who don't mind digital content. You have instant access to most of your game collection, cloud-based storage, an extra discount on sales and what amounts to an unlimited free rental on pre-selected titles. Unfortunately, there is a problem inherent in the system that isn't immediately obvious when you subscribe. (PS Vita, PS3)

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GribbleGrunger  +   463d ago
I disagree with this argument. Most people who want a title will download it within the launch window. The only market PS+ effect is the second hand market. I have no sympathy for arguments like this. They make mention that if you already got Borderlands FOR FREE, you don't get any special treatment when you then purchase the Borderland 1 and 2 bundle ... TOUGH! Don't subscribe again and leave PS+ to people who appreciate the service.

'How dare you give me a free game and make the bundle irrelevant!'

stop being so God damn entitled.
#1 (Edited 463d ago ) | Agree(112) | Disagree(23) | Report | Reply
sinncross  +   463d ago
I dont know... i see the articles reasoning.
Basically buying something you get for 'free' off PS+ is not possible which can in turn be detrimental to you if you no longer use PS+.

But the problem the article presents relates purely to bundles and part of the bundle being something off PSN+ you may have got: basically that item which you paid for (part of the bundle) is not given to you as an actual item you own (though ypu paid for it).

IF this is indeed true, then it is somewhat problematic.
GribbleGrunger  +   463d ago
Ah, I misread that part. In that case I have to agree.
DivineAssault  +   463d ago
This should be addressed with the nx generation.. If i bought the bundle BL1 & 2) after downloading Borderlands 1 for free on ps plus, part 1 expires with my subscription.. Interesting point
#1.1.2 (Edited 463d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(6) | Report
lodossrage  +   463d ago
It's not true though Sincross lol
I don't know where the writer is getting this "fact" from.

If you bought something beforehand that's being given in a bundle, it's not like the free item will replace the paid version of it.

Instead, the bundle just gives you all the parts that you DON'T have.

I know this because sometime 2 years ago, they were giving away some of Sega's Vintage collection as free games in a bundle. I already had Streets of Rage 2 and Altered Beast before they had the bundle.

I was allowed to download the games I DIDN'T have free. But even in the bundle, it wouldn't allow me to grab the free versions of Streets of Rage 2 and Altered beast because I already paid for it.
lodossrage  +   463d ago
@DivineAssault
If you BOUGHT the Borderlands Bundle, then you don't need to update the license.

If you BOUGHT (not got it as a free item), then the license never expires in the first place. Even if you Plus subscription ran out, you'd still be able to play your Borderlands games BECAUSE you bought it (even if it's with a Plus discount).

Edit- My bad, I misread what you said. I didn't realize you had the FREE version of BL first. Now I see your particular issue
#1.1.4 (Edited 463d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(1) | Report
Minato-Namikaze  +   462d ago
Then buy it after the subscription runs out?
ziggurcat  +   462d ago
@ Minato-Namikaze

"Then buy it after the subscription runs out?"

or just delete the free version before purchasing the paid version...
Gaming101  +   462d ago
lol wow, people get a good thing and they still complain! We really are the shittiest generation full of entitled brats.
MoveTheGlow  +   462d ago
Minato has it right: Unless something goes horribly awry with the Playstation Store, if you really want a perpetually-licensed title, just wait until you don't have PS Plus anymore, and then just purchase the game.

"But what if the Playstation Store stops being supported, and all the ability to purchase goes away?"

You'll get sufficient warning, and then you can work with customer service. No big deal.

But for a small games review site to whine about free games they got being perpetually licensed? And having to slog through customer service? They don't care. You're not their target market. You help, but there aren't tens of millions of you out there.
TriangleOffense  +   462d ago
Agree + Bubble.

I had this same Argument awhile back with Morgan Haro from Playstation. My issue wasnt with the fact that they gave me the game for free x amount of months ago it was that now that there is a giant discount on it I wanted to purchase the game and because I have it in my download history from PS+ I can only do so if I log onto a diffrent account, which even then if that account doesnt have plus im missing out on the discount anyway. There are some issues with plus especially with the quality of the content here in the US but those are all things that can be dealt with because honestly who is going to complain about a "free" game. The biggest issues are in the background of the service and this is probably right at the top
No FanS Land  +   462d ago
I don't even get this problem. I originaly got the first borderlands free in september and I bought the bundle this week-end with no hassle. I don't see the problem.
Gaming_Guru  +   462d ago
At: GribbleGrunger

I agree with you completely, I understand the frustration of trying to own a game digitally that is up for grabs for PS+ subscribers when being a member blocks that purchase. The purchase while being a member would defeat the purpose of the subscription.

It's like being a member to a gym to get access to the gym equipment than trying to buy the gym equipment from the fitness club. The whole point of being a member is so that you come for the equipment, it would defeat the purpose of the membership. What would be the incentive to keep the membership?

Whether they change this down the road is another thing; but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
GribbleGrunger  +   462d ago
Jesus, I feel so terrible that I actually got a 'well said' for my first post. I misinterpreted the article guys lol

But thanks nevertheless
#1.3 (Edited 462d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
andibandit  +   462d ago
The hive mind, does not care about the truth.
Nitrox  +   462d ago
Lol, just the fact that you took the time to write something like this tells me you deserved the bubs up :)
tiffac008  +   462d ago
Do not worry Grib it takes a lot of character to actually admit when you made a mistake and feel terrible about it.

As for the article, I am thankful someone wrote about this. In some ways this could defeat the purpose of PS+ since its main motive is to get those people who hasn't purchased the games to try them and then buy into the franchise.

Not being able to get a permanent version automatically after purchasing it because you had a PS+ freebie before, can deter some people because they just don't want the hassle.
_FantasmA_  +   462d ago
I can't stand those people over on the US Blog that whine all day about how they didn't get the game they wanted or that they should get a refund. Really? Who are you that we should care about you? People think Plus is a personalized service for them, not thinking that its for everyone and tries to bring out games in every genre. If you get a game for free from Plus that you just bought, so what. Trade in or sale your retail copy, or just keep it in case. I mean you guys are getting games for free pretty much so you don't even have room to complain.
showtimefolks  +   462d ago
What people are forgetting is PSN:Plus is still a fairly new service, I expect huge improvements with ps4 from day one

Anyone who has picked the ps3 day one knows how far Sony has brought from PSN from than to now. At least Sony gigs back for what you pay for and I can't say the same for xblive which we just pay for just to play online

PSN:plus isn't perfect service but its agreat service where things stands now and will see improvements in future.

IT'S HARD TO PLEASE EVERYONE, CASE AND POINT RE6 CAPCOM YRIED TO PLEASE EVERYONE AND FAILED SO SONY CAN'T NOT PLEASE EVERYONE
thebaultdo   462d ago | Spam
FamilyGuy  +   462d ago
You read this completely wrong. He's saying that if he buys the bundle and then let's his ps+ subscription end he'll lose what he purchased because the ps store doesn't remove the expiration license and continues to believe to to be a free ps+ game rather than a purchased one.

PS+ lapse and you lose something you paid for because of this confusion. That argument is entirely justifiable.
Gimmemorebubblez  +   463d ago
My only problem is if I buy Sleeping Dogs for example and then a month after I purchased it, it arrives on Plus. Other than that tiny, insignificant gripe I think Ps+ is incredible value for money.
NastyLeftHook0  +   463d ago
best value
IRetrouk  +   463d ago
I have owned quite a few of the ps+ games that have been given out and still think its worth the money, plus the service has give me some games that i would not have tried otherwise.
Rask  +   463d ago
So true. I'm playing Vanquish, that i got from Plus, and i'm absolutely loving it. If i was not a Plus subscriber, i probably would never play this awesome game, as it never got my attention.
Why o why  +   463d ago
Yep, Dantes Inferno for me, clone for sure but still enjoyable
KumaKreations  +   463d ago
It keeps you in the system. I enjoy PS+ a lot more than live because you get something out of it. Actually feeling like a plus member is great, however I just needed to upgrade my hard drive for all the free content. It feels worth it in the end to me.
Why o why  +   463d ago
Hopefully sony can make the updating of licenses more seamless on the ps4. Maybe if more people encountered this problem and called customer services sony would address it quicker. Interesting article..a fair view even if it doesn't affect the current majority
Sis  +   463d ago
Bull**it.. this is so minor problem, it is not worth mentioning.. But tell me - the PS+ is supervalue for users. How is it from business point of view for Sony?
mydyingparadiselost  +   462d ago
Consumer rights are always worth mentioning and mishandling of aspects of a service is always worth mentioning
InTheLab  +   463d ago
Updating licenses makes sense but I have to laugh at how the author discovered this issue. Sony sent them free indie games as if that's ever going to happen to us normal gamers.

And really, who is going to spend money on PS+ and access the free games, unsubscribe, spend more money on the very same game?
josephayal  +   463d ago
I think PSN +PLUS is awesome, if you don't want it then you still have free online play and everything you are use to, you really can't complain
o-Sunny-o  +   463d ago
PS+ every week is exciting to see what's next. My only complaint is I didn't sign up sooner.
Why o why  +   463d ago
My only problem was the envy I suffered when I let my subscription run out and missed a couple stella games during that period. Wont let that sh*t happen again;)
ACEMANWISE  +   463d ago
The author is wrong about one thing. He believes there is an option to own a game by purchasing a license that never expires. While the license never expires it is still dependant on the PSN service.

When you "buy" a game from the PS Store you get a sublicense, not an actual license. This means that Sony bought the license and is giving you access. If you "buy" a game and the online service stops you lose the game. If the PS4 comes out and they decide to stop support for the PS3 online you lose your games. Why? Well because the games you bought need to be activated by the service. Backing up your games won't matter. It is useless without the activation key.
DestinyHeroDoomlord  +   462d ago
Stop it your scaring me...
ACEMANWISE  +   462d ago
Then always buy the disc version when available. The advantages of having a physical disc are several.

First, the disc doesn't require activation from a server. That is because you purchased the game directly from the developer. The disc itself authorizes the genuine copy.

Second, there is no need to back up the disc. Unless you are terrible with taking care of your disc it will always be in it's original state. They are trying to bug every disc on release day, however, in order to make all formats reliant to online. Yet it is still a better option to have the base game...instead of no game at all.

Last, it makes it harder for the service to get involved. They will be limited to the multiplayer only and can't provide the service to you.
They also can't limit the number of consoles you can play the game on, take games away if they ban your account, or create any other interference like they've all been doing lately.
rainslacker  +   462d ago
Sad but true destiny. This is true with almost all digital content from movies, music, and games. It even says as much on the purchase page on PSN, right near the top so you can't miss it. MS and Nintendo do are the same way.

This isn't a Sony thing, but an industry thing. Even steam, the savior of modern PC gaming, blocked people's access to games if they didn't agree to a new TOS.

DD means you own nothing, and are completely at the mercy of the content provider.
ACEMANWISE  +   462d ago
I'm really surprised that they haven't been stopped for holding your games ransom. Think about it.

They start you out with some pleasant terms, and under those terms you purchase access to those games. That was the agreement you made when that transaction occurred. The fact that they can get away with changing the rules while placing more of your values at stake should be considered predatory business practices.

What they are doing is creating an environment where a consumer starts to agree under emotional duress, not because they actually agree with their rules. Because now it isn't about supplying a service to you. It becomes a 40 page demand letter of how you will service them in order to keep access to everything you invested in. That, my friend, isn't service. It's a reminder that the more money you give them the less they think you're worth.
rainslacker  +   460d ago
I agree. It's one of those things that's been around in PC software for a while. Even before Valve came around software companies were starting to go this route. They basically sold you the license to use the product, but the TOS was always in favor of the developer. Most people aren't going to bother with binding arbitration for an inexpensive product, but I was surprised that Valve didn't receive more backlash because of it when they changed their TOS. I know Apple has also removed songs from their iStore, and they are no longer available to download, even if you purchased them in the past, and don't recall there ever being a fuss about it. Maybe just some mild grumbling.

I think it's reasonable for them to prevent access to more content if you don't agree. But don't agree on them stripping away the purchases you brought in good faith.

Eventually something will happen which will upset enough people that some change will have to be made. I think DD is still just in it's infancy, and sometimes these kinds of things just take time...and occasionally a class action lawsuit.
KrimsonKody  +   463d ago
PS+ is one of the greatest services out there!
However,
My only growing concern is, will it transition over onto the PS4?
My subscription recently expired a few months ago & instead of doing the full year subscription, I did the 90 day renewal, because I don't want to have PS+ beyond the launch of the PS4, especially if it doesn't transfer over.
GABRIEL1030  +   462d ago
Sony must release PLUS for PS4, this incredible service is the key of the PS3 success. I bought the promotion of 15 months for 50 USD and I hope that I can enjoy the service in the new PS system.

PS3 is hunting the 360 in sales, the difference is only of 1 million ( 75 millions of 360 vs 74 millions of PS3) thanks in a great part for PLUS. source : http://www.vgchartz.com/.
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d0nT wOrrY  +   462d ago
They ought to transfer it to PS4. I'd be pissed if they didn't because my PS+ ends on March 2015 lol. But I guess I will be still playing PS3 by then.
ACEMANWISE  +   462d ago
Based on my experience with the original XBox, the service is universal BUT it is console specific. That means I pay once for XBox Live and would need to play the original XBox to access the original Xbox services. Then I needed to play 360 to access the 360 services. There was no transfer over of content and eventually the support was dropped altogether.

I expect the industry dislikes any backward compatability in this day of service run consoles. When people realize their games disappear along with the drop for PS3 it will be the first time a mass awakening will occur in the industry. Gamers will be shocked to know that paying the same price for the digital copy meant they were getting nothing in return over the physical disc.

Until these console makers specifically say that the digital games will be released from their control upon termination of their service I can only assume, from experience, that digital games are of rental value...and nothing more. It will be this specific awakening that is going to change the industry in a major way. The illusion of ownership will be over.
Tei777  +   463d ago
Any argument against PS plus is simply void.

Pay $60, get 24 games (48 if you have aVita). Some fairly new, some old, some you may already have, some you may not!!! As a gamer its a great way to experience games you otherwise would have skipped on and at the cost of only one full priced retail release. For young kids and teens who can probably only afford a handful of games each year, its especially awesome.
GABRIEL1030  +   463d ago
PLUS is the best product in the videogames history. For 50 USD you have 40 or more games (if you have a Vita),discounts and free trials.

"For single games, it means that if you download a "free" PlayStation Plus game, you can never purchase a full version of the game."

What stupid argument¡

You can create another count in the PS3 system and you can buy the game. But if you have a game for free in Plus why you want the same game twice?, You can save this money for another game¡

Also You can create an european count, pay 50 € for PLus Europe and You'll get anothers 40 Free games of the old continent, this month Hitman Absolution and Dead or Alive 5. I like very much PLUS, you dont need to be rich to have a great collection ¡ =)
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Peanuts110  +   462d ago
I would have thought the real story would be:
If you downloaded a game from the PS+ played it for a while and liked it. Decided to buy the full version game disk at the store to get the additional features. The game saves will not be recognized by the system/disk. You would have to start the game all over again from scratch.
delboy  +   462d ago
Only if the game you bought on disc is from different region, then the saves won't work.
Save files are tied to user, wasn't so from the beginning, but Sony like to take stuff away.
I remember that I did transfer my save files to my wife's acc, and she could continue to play from same spot in game where I was, but it was long time ago.
Made a new user recently, and wanted to copy my save files, but found out it's not possible anymore.
I think they made this because trophys and cheaters.
#15.1 (Edited 462d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
rainslacker  +   462d ago
Only some games bind them to an account. It's really up to the developer. And yes it did come about because of trophies and cheaters. Copy protection was available from the beginning though, and serves much the same purpose, only it's more stringent.
keyblade22   462d ago | Spam
cyclindk  +   462d ago
Could happen to some extent, but I think we all know how poorly designed/implemented games' sales are affected by these sorts of technical deficits.

More than anything, I believe it will provide a sort of "cushion" for, as they stated the junior developers, but as usual it will be the true masters who push the console once even the MIGHTY eight gigabytes aren't enough anymore :)

Those are going to be some truly mouth-watering games to experience.
brave27heart  +   462d ago
The hidden problem with playstation plus is im only a small website and I want the hits.

Way to copy a story put up last week.
Rockefellow  +   462d ago
The hidden problem with PlayStation Plus lies in how its become a worse service since last year's explosive "Instant Game Collection."

I've been a member since day one, and we used to get a set amount of content including Minis, PSone games, and at least one full PSN game a month. This was on top of a bunch of exclusive discounts, free avatars and themes, and whatever else they felt like throwing in.

Some months had some absolute drivel for their offerings, but that's no different today. The difference is, we're not getting nearly as much content as we were when the service launched. We've not seen one free PSone game in over a year, for example, and while we're getting one or two more games a month than we used to, a lot of the time they're just extremely old games that most of the community already owns-- unlike how Plus used to work, where games were fairly often free at launch.

My biggest gripe, though, lies in the discounts. I remember regular sales that had games up to 90% off the normal price, with "normal" users getting half-off (if they got a discount at all). After last year's switcheroo, sales have been abominably boring: they're almost always 30% off for normal users, and 50% off for Plus members. That is, in reality, far worse than it was before, and the sales are much fewer and far between.

I kind of feel cheated, because Sony ditched the contract we originally had with Plus without even letting us know (a big reason I signed up was for monthly PSone games) and made their sales a universally "meh" experience. Still, it's a great deal, and I'll remain a subscriber for as long as they offer the service. You can't argue with free games on a monthly basis-- I just don't buy as much as I used to, in order to avoid disappointment.

...I won't bother bringing up Europe's superior offerings, since I know that'll probably flood this page in an hour or two.
Soldierone  +   462d ago
Whats up with all the recent "PS Plus has secret issues" articles?
Robotronfiend  +   462d ago
This is another reason why it is beneficial to have a 2nd account on your PS3 hardware.

Log in as the secondary person, get the desired item. Download and install. Log in again as primary account user and the licenses should be updated.

I did this with SF4 costume packs. Capcom released a few small packs of costumes and then one large pack later on. If someone had purcahsed even one of the smaller packs, then the large (complete) pack would not even show up on the PSN store. Log in with a second account, get the items you want (with the licensing you want). Download and install on the secondary account. Log in as the primary account and the licenses should have been updated.

I bought the pack with SF4 Zangeif costumes and was unable to purchse the entire roster pack later, unless I signed onto the secondary account on my machine and purchased it that way.

Not a solution, but it is a work-around. Hope it helps.
tommygunzII  +   462d ago
PS Plus needs its own download button at the purchase page, separate from the buy button. I have always wondered about this.
ShiftyLookingCow  +   462d ago
It's a minor problem. But yeah it would be good for Sony and us if Sony makes it possible to buy/upgrade free PS Plus games with perhaps a small discount(5-10%) on the original price.

Everyone wins.
rhetariesman   462d ago | Spam
abc1233  +   462d ago
Maybe I'm missing something here but can't you just make another account which hasn't had PS+ and purchase the full game through that?
Syriel  +   462d ago
You could, but then you wouldn't get the PS+ discount on the full game because the account being used to purchase wouldn't have PS+ on it.

Someone who only uses PS+ for the freebies wouldn't be impacted, but a gamer who is in it for both the freebies and the sales is who would run into this. And you'd think that Sony would want to cater to those who are spending the most.

I doubt this is anything nefarious, it's probably just an oversight and it doesn't negate the benefits of PS+. Still, it's worth knowing about, especially with the push for digital delivery.
BrianC6234  +   462d ago
I don't see what the problem is. PS Plus is less than a full priced game. Just don't stop getting it and no problem. It's definitely worth the $50 a year.
killerorca258  +   462d ago
It's not a bad article, but it misses the basic point. The selection criteria for PS Plus games is their sales over the past few months, the reason games like Cave a appeared on PS Plus after only a few months is because it sold abysmally in its first 2-3 months. Sony offers incentives to developers for putting their games on PS Plus, in other words it's a last blast of income for devs' unpopular games, so it's a win-win situation for developers whose games aren't selling and gamers who want premium treatment for paying for a premium service.
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smashcrashbash  +   462d ago
Like people said above just wait until your subscription runs out and erase the free version and then buy the game.Can't you do that?
Kingthrash360  +   462d ago
smh.... more complaints over free shit.
I have bl1 thru ps+ free and got a discount on bl2 basically paid 19.00 for both.. wheres the prob? if you dont continue the service then you lose bl1... a game that, by now you should have beatin already. if you didnt then you weren't THAT into if to begin with.
so "SCOFS" (Stop Complaining Over Free Shit)
benjasper374   462d ago | Spam
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