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Submitted by iGAM3R-VIII 617d ago | article

Xbox 720 vs PS4: Spec Rumors Give Sony Edge On RAM

When it comes to the Xbox 720 vs PS4 debate, spec rumors are pretty much all we have to go on right now. But tha'ts not Sony's fault. Sony had the decency to give us some info about their new system in February whereas Micrsoft is still pretending thatthere is no such thing as the Xbox 720. Why are they doing this? My guess is they want to hold as many cards as possible in the xbox 720 vs PS4 consumer debate. The less we know about the system the harder it will be for gamers to make up their minds early in the year. But, Microsoft should've anticipated that there would a fair amount of leaks regarding the Xbox 720 specs, and that it wouldn't take much time for game bloggers to start typing up their Xbox 720 vs PS4 comparisons. (PS4, Xbox One)

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FrigidDARKNESS  +   617d ago
Specs from the xbox mini posted by VGLeaks when they werent the Durango specs.
The new specs of the durango reveals dual 7790 with gddr5 8 or 10 gb ram x86 Jaguar.
http://www.extremetech.com/...
Other rumor MS may go with an 8000 series GPU. This article is totally wrong relying on bogus specs.
#1 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(28) | Disagree(90) | Report | Reply
Lila-   617d ago | Spam
The_Infected  +   617d ago
10 gigs of ram doesn't really help if its DDR3. I highly doubt it's GDDR5.
#1.2 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(48) | Disagree(46) | Report | Reply
DonFreezer   617d ago | Trolling | show
Rhythmattic  +   617d ago
DonFreezer
Thats where you maybe right...

Most common PC architectures dont use GDDR for CPU, as you may know its DDR ...

This is what Makes the PS4 possibly different... Sony has been in close cohorts with AMD, through design, allowing GDDR memory . all 8 Gb to be accessed by not only the GPU but the CPU...

It possibly will be magical.. something no other "box" little lone console does.

Not Saying its any better than any of the competition, but its a great foundation.
cayleee  +   617d ago
@Rhythmattic

GDDR5 has high latency, how that plays out with the PS4 CPU is any ones guess. So lets not count the benefits of high bandwidth alone.

Its highly possible MS goes with a more PC like approach IE DDR for CPU, GDDR for GPU. We will just have to wait and see.
pete007  +   617d ago
ddr3 less latency+4 move engines to multiply bandwidt without latency issues, A LOT more efficient than an all purpose gddr5, its not even system memory. just a choice made when you have a tight budget
Rhythmattic  +   617d ago
Okay... Latency...

What actually is the latency you talk about? What is the value?

If its so bad , why do graphics cards use GDDR ??? Guess we all notice the latency with graphic cards that use GDDR... /s

cayleee
High Latency ??? Whats high latency ? you read it on a forum ?

As for you pete007
Link please...

Im not pretending I know what that value is, but i use music programs that are strewn with latency... Depending of course on the sample rate buffer chosen... at lower figures, it just doesn't matter...Its not noticeable.

Edit :

To Add:

Pete007 "A LOT more efficient than an all purpose gddr5, its not even system memory"

Thats what makes it interesting... Sony has designed with AMD an Architecture that uses the GDDR as system ram, and BTW its DDR thats generally all purpose.
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pete007  +   617d ago
@rytmatic
Gddr5 its not all purpose ram, i just meant the ps4 , i meant unified pool. I'm posting from my phone. Dif To linl stuff. But my pc's ddr3 triple Channel @2000 are 8-8-8-24 cycles where Common gddr5 are in the 200-300 cycles. That Alone says mutch. Of course, in a game, cpu doesnt represent alot, the fundamental piece of HW is the gpu and its hi speed memory. The inverse would be a chaos. They made the best call they could. But not the best available.
Xbox Will be more impressive. Just wait a bit To see
jcnba28  +   617d ago
Of course you doubt it fanboy. It's hilarious because right when sony announces 8gb of gddr5 ram for the ps4 all of a sudden ram is the most important thing ever LOL.
Leviathan  +   617d ago
@ caylee DDR3s lower latency only matters when we are talking about small amounts of data.
ichimaru  +   617d ago
GDDR5 doesn't help latency if its used for the CPU
GABRIEL1030  +   617d ago
PS4 have a clear advantage: 8GB of GDDR5 RAM memory, integrated GPU/CPU,PC arquitecture, friendly to program.

The next Xbox have two problems:

first : the slower DDR3 pipeline
second: the OS. Windows 8 could require a lot of RAM memory.

Maybe Microsoft is analizing how they can fix that. An interesting E3 awaits us
thechosenone  +   617d ago
"dual 7790 with gddr5 8-10GB RAM"

dual gpus, so you want a console that costs 600+? and 8-10GB of that sweet, sweet GDDR5? No, just no. lol

all the haters here should give this a quick look on why MS has to worry about more than just RAM.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...
rainslacker  +   616d ago
So...latency is the new thing that will make a console better or not? GDDR5 latency shouldn't be an issue on a closed console, particularly if the developer has access to control the flow of data.

I won't claim to be an expert in the field of how memory works, but DDR3 and GDDR5 work on entirely different principles in how they send out data to the processor. GDDR5 offers quite a bit of flexibility due to it's design. Linear processing of data with DDR3 is better for a general purpose CPU(and low latency is required because of it), but a console CPU does not necessarily work as a general purpose CPU. The code and memory are managed by the actual program running on the machine(ie. the game programmed by the developer), thus making it possible to achieve extremely high throughput of data along the larger and faster memory channels of GDDR5 with that data being ready exactly when it is needed...basically meaning the memory doesn't have to react in a way where latency is an issue.

The point is...GDDR5 latency isn't going to be an issue. Maybe if a dev just isn't that good at handling it, but console developers are masters at memory management by default.
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TheSurg  +   616d ago
You have no idea what you're talking about. I see you base your knowledge on few n4g sony articles. Go research about GGDR and DDR, go research about capacity advantage and then come back.
vulcanproject  +   617d ago
RAM is RAM is RAM.

Memory bandwidth is what the actual advantage would be.

Microsoft do have time to change their memory plans, it is one thing that can be altered although it still would take many months of redesign, but that is fast relative to redesigning their main processor which is probably also an APU and would take at least 9 months to change in a perfect scenario.

No, if Microsoft have chosen a slower GPU and paired it with DDR3, chances are that is what they will stick to on cost grounds.

I am sure it'll be smartly engineered like Xbox 360 was. Xbox 360 delivered very similar performance to a much more expensively engineered machine- PS3.

However, this time Sony have made their performance much more accessible to developers. If PS4 is the faster machine on paper, it will definitely be faster in the real world this time as well because of that developer friendliness.
#1.3 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(36) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
Nodoze  +   617d ago
Naaa MS can alter things even when on the assembly line. Then if things go 'wrong' they can deny any issues. That way the consumer can beta test their product for them while they work out the kinks. If the chatter of a class action lawsuit grows to high, then they can extend the warranty.

If you don't think they will do it again, you are a FOOL!!!
Baka-akaB  +   617d ago
Nope one does not drastically alter specs on the fly , besides upping the memory ante or lowering specs .

If the reveal consoles is much more than rumored , it will only mean that the rumors werent spot on .
ichimaru  +   617d ago
"much more accessible to developers. If PS4 is the faster machine on paper, it will definitely be faster in the real world this time as well "

http://www.gifsforum.com/im...
FarCryLover182  +   617d ago
Dual 7790? Sounds awesome if true.
DarkHeroZX  +   617d ago
He read his own article wrong.

It say's on the second page:

"That said, the hypothesized Durango GPU isn’t a perfect match for the HD 7790. Durango has 12 CUs for a total of 768 cores instead of the 14 CUs (896 cores) that the HD 7790 has."
ABizzel1  +   617d ago
Don't believe it just yet. It's going to be hard for MS to squeeze a single 7790 into a console let alone 2.

If they go with a Single 7790 with less cores, and under-clock it, it'll be better than the rumored 7770GHz they had planned on using, but it's still not on par with the PS4 thanks to the under-clocking and core count cutting. It will be just like this gen where multiplatform games are identical and only PS4 exclusives shine better thanks to a likely 10% better GPU, but much faster RAM.
JsonHenry  +   617d ago
You will never see the raw throughput numbers that GDDR5 can provide. I think MS knows this and it is why they went with slower and cheaper RAM but added the ESRAM and the 4 move engines that help eliminate the bottlenecks. Overall the APU inside of the system will probably not be able to max out the full 8 gigs of RAM anyway, let alone the APU being able to max out the pipeline in the PS4.

In the end I think it won't make a difference and you will see both the PS4 and the 360 being neck and neck overall in graphics fidelity like this gen.

The real thing that people should be watching is what GPU is in the two systems. I feel that is where the biggest difference will come in to play.
zebramocha  +   617d ago
Ms probably went with ddr3 because they wanted 8GB of ram,if gddr5 couldn't reach peak bandwidth throughput then what makes think DDR 3 will?those move engines zaps bandwidth,their memory setup is less efficient then Sony's because they were considering a similar memory combo,if they apu couldn't address 8gigs of memory then why have it?
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Jaqen_Hghar  +   617d ago
A user thinks PS4 will be neck and neck with 360? A man doubts this considering one is coming out 8 years after the other.
JsonHenry  +   617d ago
Crap, I meant the next xbox. Not the 360.

And those move engines INCREASES efficiency helping the system reach higher throughput levels. It doesn't "zap" them. Its going to be a wash I think. But as I said- the biggest difference will be the video cards since the video card in the in the PS4 is handily better than what is rumored to be in the newest Xbox.
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Freedomland  +   617d ago
@JsonHenry

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAN, These machines are designed by engineers with millions of dollars of research and commenters are commenting like those engineers didn't know anything what ram can do or can't do with other hardware features and what is ram, apu, gpu, gddr5, ddr3, latency, bottleneck etc, these engineers have no clue about these things. INTERESTING!
AlphaTauri  +   617d ago
Good Post, JsonHenry (Nice to see some people on here that read about underlying specs and design of hardware) - I think you are right on with the real battle being in the GPU's - it seems that due to the high wait cycles of GDDR5 (compared to DDR3) and sharing that bandwidth between the CPU and GPU then pile on the wait cycles of both those will hold back things back and is going negate it's advantages somewhat, however I do like the sound of the GDDR5.
rainslacker  +   616d ago
Hmm...Sony has for three generations now created systems that went against the norm and pushed hardware specs beyond what they were originally thought to be able to provide. What makes you think this time will be different?

I'll admit the PS3's uniqueness went under utilized by devs for the most part, but when it did take advantage of it, the results were usually spectacular.

That being said, I highly doubt Sony would go with more expensive RAM if they didn't see a clear advantage for it. Sony and more so AMD have genius level engineers designing these systems. No doubt they showed positive and substantial real world gains to the corporate money types in order to get GDDR5 for the next system.

I do agree with you that the actual graphics card spec will play a part, but if MS stays with DDR3 for graphics then it's lower bandwidth could just bottleneck the GPU when it comes to performance. However, even with the ESRAM, if you can't feed that data to it fast enough, it's still a bottleneck...although we can only speculate since we don't know how it will be set up or how they'll implement it.

@Alpha

While each chip is on the same die, they still have independent access to the actual memory. There is no need for one to wait on the other, and if they did have to do this the system would stall on it's first clock cycle. Even if it were necessary, the parallel nature of GDDR5 is better suited for such a thing, as by it's very design it can send different sets of data while waiting on a separate pipeline.

The advantage of an APU is that data can be shared between the two chips at the speed of the APU clock and utilize the extremely fast bus speeds within, and not be hindered by any external bus between them.
fullmetal297  +   616d ago
Actually the ESRAM and DDR3 RAM combo was in the Xbox 360. I think Microsoft is sticking with this combination again because it worked so well with the xbox 360 and its more cost effective under their eyes.
DarkHeroZX  +   617d ago
@ FrigidDARKNESS

Did you even read your own link? The link stated that the 7790 is capable of doing SLI and thats it.

It the says on the second page where it actually talks about the Xbox "That said, the hypothesized Durango GPU isn’t a perfect match for the HD 7790. Durango has 12 CUs for a total of 768 cores instead of the 14 CUs (896 cores) that the HD 7790 has."

Please read links before you go posting them. Your own link just more or less said that the ps4 is more powerful.
OpenGL  +   617d ago
SLI is an Nvidia technology, AMD's dual-GPU technology is known as Crossfire.
Syntax-Error  +   617d ago
Sat. April 13, 2013 XBL is down
They are experiencing technical difficulties as we speak. If this machine is supposed to be always on-line, how do you remedy a situation like that? If you're down for more than 24 hrs, do they pro-rate your annual feel? That's the f*ckin' problem we are facing. I am a true gamer and have had every console from 1981-present day, I have shown support for MS since 2001 and in recent months I have been starting to second guess my decision on their new console. Being a gamer I will definitely buy a PS4, but if this is MS's take on next gen, they can keep it. I am sure they have marketing and research developers that police these forums to see what the buzz is and clearly they can see that no one is happy at this point
StreetsofRage  +   617d ago
I came on here to see if my Live was down. I guess it is. It usualy gets corrected pretty quickly. I'll play my game later and hit the basketball courts now.
ps3_pwns  +   617d ago
if the x720 has better specs then it will cost a lot more then ps4 and in this case ps4 really wins so either way x720 fanboys you lose. might as well jump on the ps4 bandwwagon and be part of the new gaming social network. forget my xbox space and come to face ps4 book. or you gonna look dumb in the new gen just like myspace users.
mcstorm  +   616d ago
Why will people who have a next Xbox or even a Wiiu look dumb? Seems your a PlayStation fany boy I take it you only started gaming with the ps3?

Look back through the history of PlayStation and the 1st two consoles had less power than other consoles released with it.

Power is not what makes the consoles the best on the market its been about games.

Some one who likes to play Mario games is not going to buy a ps4 or next Xbox and someone who is a halo fan will not buy a Wiiu or ps4. The same for a lbp fan they will get the ps4.

Specs only matter to you fan boys when the console you cream all over is more powerful.

As a gamer I ill own all 3 because I want to play games like halo, Zelda, Metroid, forza, get, lbp ect and then depending which console my mates get for fifa ect ill grab that game foe the same console they get it on.

Yes games will look amazing on the ps4 because it has alto of power but look at games like kz3, uc3, halo 4 gears 3 these games look amazing on 7 year old hardware and this proves that you don't always need a new console to bring out amazing looking games. That said since when dose graphics make a game amazing? Gaming is about game play 1st and looks 2nd. Look at the sales of some of the best games this gen. Mario kart, new super Mario bros, call of duty Halo 3 ect and they are not the best looking games but they are bought because of the way they play and make people feel when they are playing them.

People will and always will go and buy the console they want not what fan boys rant about that is why the Wii sold the most this gen and the reason why the ps2 and psx sold the most the gens before them and the reason why they will go out and buy which ever console they want when all the next gen consoles are out.
dango   616d ago | Spam
seanpitt23  +   617d ago
There's no point in going on about it until Microsoft reveal it.
It's only around the corner a month to 2 months tops then you will all know.
Why o why  +   617d ago
Just wait and see fellas. No point making such bold statements to the point you're projecting what you want JUST to one up or downplay. Based on rumours sony does have the edge ....case in point ms specs are rumours for now.. chill

'fanboys are the funniest' don freezer, fixed, unless you think only one side talks sh!t of course. Smh
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Bathyj  +   617d ago
Dont really care about the specs at this point. Sonys studios give them the edge.
Why o why  +   617d ago
100% agree with that. Their talent alone is string on sonys bow.
Jaqen_Hghar  +   617d ago
A man does not buy a Sony console because of numbers on a piece of paper. A man will buy PS4 because about half his library of games on PS3 are first party exclusives and he has gotten hundreds of dollars worth of content for less than he would have to pay for simply going online on 360 because he has subscribed to PS+. Also a man's top games of the gen (1 per series) are as follows
1. Ratchet and Clank ACiT
2. Uncharted 3
3. Resistance 3
4. Batman AC
5. Infamous
So, a man would not have been able to experience 4 out of his 5 favorite games if he didn't own PS3. A man already is convinced on KZ and Infamous for PS4 so a man is sold.
stuna1  +   617d ago
And I say AMEN to A MAN!
Waller  +   617d ago
Not everyone likes those.
You act as if those four series are everyone's favorites, and that they're being cheated out of an important life experience by not having a PlayStation. The truth is that you're passing your personal preference off as everyone's, and that's simply not the fact. I could do the same for Xbox, and it would have the same effect as what you're doing.

1. Halo
2. Gears of War
3. Forza
4. Dead or Alive
5. Fable

See? Those aren't everyone's favorites (they're not even mine), but you get the idea.
stuna1  +   617d ago
@Waller

You just named the whole exclusive lineup of the Xbox.
Jaqen_Hghar  +   617d ago
@Waller

A man never said that they were the best games period. Everything a man said was in relation to his personal tastes and he made that very clear. Considering only Uncharted and Batman even had 90 metas on that list, a man knows that his opinion is not simply following the most popular trend. A user put words in a man's mouth as he never implied that everyone liked those series the best.
stiggs  +   617d ago
@ Jaqen_Hgar
Jaqen_Hghar

Each time that I read your one of your comments and I see that you refer to yourself as "a man" I think of the stereotypical dork who claims that he has "a girlfriend".

In Canada...she's French.
Waller  +   617d ago
@stuna1

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

THIS is the list of all the 360 exclusives (with the exception of Ryse listed on there).
Tultras  +   617d ago
Clearly, you guys are not into game of thrones or you would have understood his reference instead of making yourselves look like a bunch of pansies.
Why o why  +   617d ago
lol stiggs.

chill man.....game of thrones is big right about now. Way to get the wrong end aey ;)

waller

C'mon man... its humorous. you shoulda been here to witness the wording of Zhuk vs Dark sniper... funny sh!t I swear... they both loved 3rd person
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Waller  +   617d ago
@Tultras

Clearly you don't understand that not everybody has access to HBO to watch a series such as Game of Thrones. You also don't seem to understand that him referring to himself as "a man" and myself as "a user" makes him sound very condescending.

With that, I leave this conversation, for I've used my last bubble.

edit:

I love how my post with the link to all the 360 exclusive games. It lists OVER 200 games. That's far and above the three or four most people list.
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stiggs  +   617d ago
@Why o Why, @Jaqen_Hgar
It was just a joke.

I've never seen Game of Thrones so I don't get the reference.

You have to admit that the "a man" thing is getting kind of old though...
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Leviathan  +   617d ago
@ stiggs. Read the books. They're worth it.
Jaqen_Hghar  +   617d ago
A man would encourage all of you to read A Song of Ice and Fire. A man has never read such well written books. Also a man is not being condescending when referring to himself. A man can simply change his face and name whenever he pleases as he is what a user would call "a faceless man." A user would know this if they were in on the joke, which it's not a problem not to be, but also does not make a man condescending.
MysticStrummer  +   616d ago
A man wins.
Sarobi  +   617d ago
Definitely a defining factor
Objective  +   616d ago
Already formulating new excuses in the event Xbox is more powerful than ps4 I see.
TemplarDante  +   617d ago
Rumored 720 Specs

GPU= 12CUs (6+6)
CPU= 8 core Jaguar
Ram= 8GB DDR3 (2-3GB for OS+kinect)

PS4
GPU=18cu's (14+4)
CPU= 8 core Jaguar
Ram=8GB GDDR5 (1GB for OS)

The GPU is a big difference also.

For the record, the next xbox and PS4 will set a new standard for entertainment.

PS3 / 360= 0.06TFlops
PS4= 1.84 TFlops.
Xbox720= 1.2TFlops.

So, the next Xbox is 8Times more powerful than the 360 which is awesome.
If you disagree, go play Gears of war 3, now imagine 8 Times that graphics!
Top that off with 5GB of ram!
The PS4 is in a similar boat, 10 times more powerful than PS3!
Go watch The Last Of Us trailers, go play Uncharted 3 and imagine what PS4 will do!

Next gen is nearly upon us, as gamers, lets celebrate together!
:)
#5 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(19) | Disagree(28) | Report | Reply
Saleem101  +   617d ago
Look at those specs...
#5.1 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
PFFT  +   617d ago
Look at those 720 RUMORED specs.
Dms2012  +   617d ago
Not sure what everyone disagreed with, kind of makes my head hurt.
ImpliedDeception  +   617d ago
wut? Not to be that guy, but your math is confusingly off...

If PS3/360 are .06 TFlop, and Nextbox (whatever) is 1.2 TFlop, then nextbox is 20x more powerful (1.2 ÷ .06 = 20, just plug it into a calculator.) PS4 is over 30x more powerful....

But I was pretty sure both the PS3 and 360 were actually around .2TFlop, anyways... and, uh, yea...
ZoyosJD  +   617d ago
The Cell processor alone has 89.6 GFLOPS double precision and 179.2 GFLOPS single precision.

The RSX has 176 GFLOPS.

The PS4 GPU has 1.84 TFLOPS single precision.

The CPU FLOPS count is unknown, but should be around 150 GFLOPS (don't try and compare it to the Cell, it's a different architecture with different intentions in implementation).

It's really closer to a ~6x difference in FLOP count.

I wouldn't suggest trying to pin down any numbers for the nextbox, as there are enough rumors to make your head spin.
Cueil  +   616d ago
Both the PS3 and Xbox 360 have theoretical limits over 1 TFLOP...
TheKayle1  +   617d ago | Well said
why this noobs journalist ..dosnt know nothing about hw.....

ask him why he dont explain what the move engines..do....

damn i hate to read noobish things!!!!!!!!!!!!! this isnt journalism is misinformation!

FIRST

go here
http://www.vgleaks.com/dura...

on the spec (that this article is talking about) and u will find
"Each of the 12 Durango SCs has its own L1 cache,LSM(Local Shared Memory), and scheduler, AND FOUR SIMD UNITS.-"

read 4 simd units..ok

now go on ps4 orbis leaks docu
http://www.vgleaks.com/worl...

..and u will read under the "UPDATE" paragraph

"Each CU contains dedicated: -ALU(32 64-bit operations per cycle)".....

read 32 threads 64bit op per cycle and r 18 (14+4) cu in the ps4

come back on durango and u can easly read
"A SIMD executes a vector instruction on 64 threads at once in lockstep"
64 threads x cycle not 32 as orbit/ps4

as u know there r 4 simd x every Shader cores (r 12 in the durango)

http://i.imgur.com/M0VAvIc....

so counts of the threads r

durango = 64 (threads) x 12 (shader cores) = 768 threads cycle

ps4 = 32 (threads) x 18 (cu) = 576 threads cycle

than...moving fowards comparing
here the diagram of the liverpool in the ps4

http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-c...

as u can easly see the onion and onion+ can move datas from the cpu at 10+10 gb/s and in fact u can read cpu bus <20 gb/s

in the durango
http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-c...

is 20+20 gb/s (look at the arrow close to the cpu)
for a total of 40 gb/s the double of the ps4

and again

the bandwith generated by the gddr5 is 176 gb/s (this article is pointing at this..lol)

so ps4 = 176 gb/s

http://www.vgleaks.com/wp-c...

again look the aggregate bandwith of the durango is 68+102 (ddr+esram) for a total of 170 gb/s

so is 176 vs 170....BUT durango have others 4 move engines
that can move 25.6x4 gb/s for a total of others 102 gb/s

this move engines have a bus of 256 bits ...so is large 1024 bits...imagine that the 7970 have 6 MC that r similar to this with a bus of 64bit this mean 348 bits...

look at this

http://i.imgur.com/sqkJUmO....

as u see ..the shader cores ...r just a different name to call amd CU arrays..or nvidia smx

7970 = 8 CU array where every CU array is divided in 4 normal CU so is 8x4 = 32 CU
same things happen to nvidia 8smx divided in group of 4

SAME THINGS happen to durango 12 shader cores where inside we have 4 simds so is 12*4= 48 CU

i dont wanna calculate the alu ...with this leaks..coz u will find that durango can do more than 3000 alu....and this mean more than 3 tf....

now if u can follow and read what im explain here....u should understand what the real point is.....

i have no more bubble so for info pm
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Lvl_up_gamer  +   617d ago
It just kills me that you have so many disagrees yet nt a single one of them could reply with an educated counter.

just goes to show that most of the kids on this site have little to no understanding of hardware. They are just upset kids who don't like to realize that their precious PS console isn't the be all and end all of consoles.

The PS4 will be less powerful then the 720.
The PS4 is off the shelf PC parts with little to no customization.
The 720 is all customized for performance.

I can't wait for the day developers say how much more efficient and powerful the 720 will be. This site will explode.
FarCryLover182  +   617d ago
If the PS4 is less powerful than the 720, then the 720 will be a beast of a machine then. WOW
Tultras   617d ago | Immature | show
Why o why  +   617d ago
is lost djinns shutdown intelligent enough for ya Lvl_up_gamer? ....wouldn't even be surprised if you two are one in the same...lol
MRMagoo123  +   616d ago
@lvl-up
Sooooooooooooooooo we all now know thekayle was spouting bs as usual and was put in his place by lostdjinn, so what now ? you made your self look like an arse for no reason.
LostDjinn  +   617d ago | Intelligent
@ the Kayle

What a load of crap.

Seriously, I've watched you post this nonsensical rubbish and wondered if you actually believe it or are just trolling. I mean seriously, you just seem to make things up even though the exact opposite is stated.

So lets see what happens when reality meets your...err..stupidity/trolling shall we?

Let's start with the SIMD arrays as I'll quote from your link. I use uppercase to chow the parts I've added.

"The SIMD instruction set is extensive, and supports 32-bit and 64-bit integer and float data types. Operations on wider data types occupy multiple processor pipes," NOW WHICH IS LARGER OUT OF 32-bit AND 64-bit? (BY THE WAY INTEGERS ARE USED TO MEASURE TRAFFIC NOT COMPUTATIONS) "and therefore run at slower rates—for example, 64-bit adds are one-eighth rate, and 64-bit multiplies are 1/16-rate. Transcendental operations, such as square root, reciprocal, exponential, logarithm, sine, and cosine, are non-pipelined and run at quarter rate. These operations should be used sparingly on Durango because they are more expensive relative to arithmetic operations than they are on Xbox 360." SO A STRAIGHT FEED 64-bit INTEGER TAKES UP 2 PIPES. IF YOU RUN A DOUBLE PRECISION (64bit) ADD THERE ARE HIGHER PENALTIES AND MULTIS HAVE MASSIVE PENALTIES.

Okay, let's check the math. You know, that thing you that seems to have escaped you. Flops denote 32-bit (Single precision) integers. 64-bit integers are Double Precision.

Durango-
12 SCs * 4 SIMDs * 16 (32-bit) threads/clock = 768 ops/clock
768 ops/clock * (1 mul + 1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.2 TFLOPS

PS4-
18 CUs * 4 ALUs * 16 (32bit) threads/clock = 1152 ops/clock
1152 ops/clock * (1 mul +1 add) * 800 MHz = 1.84 TFLOPS

You want to try it with DP Flops given we don't know the penalties the PS4 faces?

You then go on about the CPUs. Each has 2 4core Jaguars each with their own cache and which run the same bandwidth. About 20 Gb/s (the PS4 simply has them on the same die which you can bet MS will do to save money) yet you try to make something special out of that as well.

You then go on to add the Xbox RAM bandwidth together in order to try and boost it (for whatever crazy reason). Simply put you can't write faster than you can read. The lowest bandwidth is the one applied if sharing data between pools.

After this you move onto the MOVE engines (no pun intended) which have a total memory bandwidth of 25.6 Gb/s (for all six to use at once LOL) which accesses the GPU memory. This means only one can function efficiently at a time as they have no memory of their own and using more that one would lead to a bandwidth bottleneck.

Lastly you move on to simple BSing about what card is going to be used by MS after applying your very special insanity to the process I've just walked everyone through.

TLDR; Given the sources you've listed you don't know a damn thing and everything you've just written is nonsensical. The best approach is to wait and see what MS come up with while you go from IP to IP apologizing for what you put the interwebz through!

Edit: Also stop making multiple accounts by adding a 1 to the end of your username. You posted your picture on both. *smh*
#6.2 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(35) | Disagree(14) | Report | Reply
saint_seya  +   617d ago
U just owned him LOL
Ezz2013  +   617d ago
@LostDjinn & jobboy

why you guys have to ruin TheKayle1's day
and own him like that ?!

you gonna make him make TheKayle2 account now
great ...just great ...that's what we need
thanks alot guys
#6.2.2 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(0) | Report
fingazblank  +   617d ago
Rumoured stuff, but the complexity of this comment is to hard for sony bs'ers...

The next xbox will be plentiful, i vote xbox, ps4 will be plentiful, but i dont like sony's sh@t...

I just upgraded my pc to a 7970 (3gb of ddr5) i7 3.4ghz 8gb only ddr3 :(

Im already there and i run windows, hope i can play my pc games at the next level the new xbox can..
Gorilla_Killa_X  +   617d ago
3gb of DDR5? Who wins console war, future person?
MysticStrummer  +   616d ago
Your comment was so complex that even you couldn't handle it. There are mistakes all over it. Better luck next time at pretending to be superior.
jobboy  +   617d ago
@thekayle1
this sh|t was posted on b3d and already debunked.
Funny how people spread some misleading information just for fanboy purpose. :)
hellvaguy  +   617d ago
Convientionally with gaming pc's (and with all multiplatform console games) 8gb of ddr5 will mean absolutely zero.

PC's for gaming can rarely ever can use more than 4gb of ddr3 before something else bottlenecks the process. Usually the gpu or cpu slows up long, long before the ram. Which is why any pc builder, will put the most money into graphics card and why ram isn't something you really fuss over much.

Now with all that said, we really cant predict the future with a console dev like Naughty Dog can do several years down the line. Console OS are very efficient for gaming, so I bet you'd be hard pressed to see a game using more than 2-4gb for the first few years or maybe ever. This is why I'd defitnitely much rather see a faster gpu vs ram.
#7 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(14) | Report | Reply
TemplarDante  +   617d ago | Well said
You have no idea what you're talking about.
PC Gpu Ram is NOT the same.
The PS4 ram is UNIFIED and shared by the CPU and GPU in the APU, It has NEVER been done before.
The devs have never worked on a system with unified ram for CPU and GPU like th
hellvaguy  +   617d ago
@TemplarDante

That's why I said "convientionally". Way to pay attention and read past the first sentence.

"The devs have never worked on a system with unified ram for CPU and GPU like"

So it may end up being another cell processing debacle, since it will be different than the pc, 720 and wii u. You made my point even more, thank you.
#7.1.1 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(18) | Report
Zhipp  +   617d ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 360's RAM unified as well?
Tultras  +   617d ago
Although you should keep in mind that Designing a PC and designing a CONSOLE are two VERY different things.
jeffgoldwin  +   616d ago
Somewhat different, but not totally different. I mean after all, console parts are just modified laptop parts running on a console OS instead of windows, Linux, or apple OS.

The biggest difference comes from gaming devs being able to code for one set of hardware specs vs thousands of pc configurations.
#7.2.1 (Edited 616d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report
MysticStrummer  +   616d ago
"Convientionally"

Not a word.

Why should anyone read past the first word when it doesn't exist?
jeffgoldwin  +   616d ago
"Not a word."

What you should have typed was: It isn't a word. But actually you would be wrong in this instance too because it is a word. It should have been spelt "conventionally". Your trolling over one extra letter that was added.
http://www.thefreedictionar...

Why should anyone read past your response when your English is off. Fyi, in the future when attempting to use spelling to troll someone, make sure your grammar is correct.

Better luck next time!
josephayal  +   617d ago
I Think the ps4 will be better hardware
yourgodisdead  +   617d ago
I heard a rumour that the next Xbox isnt a console at all,its just a box you step into and whatever your heart desires most just appears in front of you :O

But then again thats just a rumour, which makes it lack substance, like every "new Xbox specs rumour" article.
fingazblank  +   617d ago
I heard this too, kinect captures in 4d... I will be getting the trish stratus sim. :)
Rask  +   617d ago
I don't really care about the specs, as i'll buy both consoles.
Britainz-Fin3st  +   617d ago
People cannot assume PS4 has the edge.
Just like how people assumed PS4 had 4gb ram but turns out to have 8, for all we know they kept it secret and only told certain developers?
imchuckbass  +   617d ago
When comparing against other consoles, fanboys will make a big deal about specs... even if the difference is negligible (i.e in this case... slightly more memory! wow like that'll make any tangible difference! lol)

But when comparing with PC, and they get absolutely destroyed, suddenly specs don't matter, it's all about the experience

I'll tell you one thing, 64 player battlefield 3 at 2560x1600 and 60fps is still the best combo of 'experience' and graphics that none of the new consoles will be able to touch

Still gonna order a PS4 and an Xbox 720 (I get all the consoles), but I can still clearly see their LIMITATIONS, because they're not the only thing I have and so I don't feel the need to vehemently defend them on the internet
klimkuz  +   617d ago
Why people even write such articles? We don't know anything about 720, just rumors that anyone can come up with. Only when we will get final official specs of both consoles then we can start to evaluate which console has more power.

But even if xbox or ps4 will be superior to another, still it's not very important. Because as we see these days games look almost identical on xbox, ps3 and even in many cases PC. Developers simply dump down visual quality of many games so that they will look the same.

It's just a fanboy stupidity. Unless you guys planing on running simulations on your console then you should care more about what games come out on your console.
all_clear  +   617d ago
one advantage does not mean winning
PAYNEinc85  +   617d ago
I like how some of these people are screaming GDDR5!!!! from the rooftops like it's the already finishing blow. Look at what the developers are saying people. Theyre excited about the amount of ram. Not necessarily the fact that it's GDDR5. If Microsoft uses DDR3 that will be fine. You're not going to see much of a difference in the games just because Sony uses a DDR5 over DDR3. I'm not saying it's not better just not as much of a difference as people are acting like.
Jek_Porkins  +   617d ago
They are both going to be similar in power, nobody is going to be able to beat their chests over power between Sony or Microsoft next generation.

Also, GDDR5 seems to be some rallying cry around here, sort of like Cell Processor was this gen, GDDR5 is good graphical memory, but actually lacks in some other key functions, we don't know how much memory is being put aside for other things, if all this "download in the background" "Share with a button" stuff is to be believed, they are using at least 2 gigs for OS, maybe more.

Kind of lame to compare something known (PS4 specs) with something that is absolutely not known (Xbox 720).
Thunderhawkxbox   617d ago | Trolling | show
AO1JMM  +   617d ago
Hate these comparisons. Only a fanboy would claim PS4 victory in this situation.
jr85prix   617d ago | Spam
Morgue  +   617d ago
Looks like the newBox is under RAM's Shadow.
Morgue  +   617d ago
Obviously the person who disagreed with my sarcastic comment missed the Gears reference.
PAYNEinc85  +   617d ago
I wished they'd make a console at a set price with decent specs but give the hardcore gamers the option of adding off the shelf parts to it for higher resolution and framerates. Of course Microsoft and Sony would have to make these upgraded CPU's and GPU's so the architecture would stay the same and be compatible with their games. The reason I would like this is because in a couple of years whenever the developers keep finding new ways to improve graphics I have a feeling we'll start seeing more games running at 30 fps.
#21 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Johnny_Cojones  +   617d ago
I'll be buying both consoles for their exclusives, & my PC will still kick the shit out of both of them, so who really cares? T%he games will be bigger, more beautiful, & hopefully better across the board. We all win.
Belking  +   617d ago
Xbox 720 is gonna have the edge in power and Sony knows it. Their upgrade in RAM won't make that much of a difference. The 720 will be not be basic PC design. It will be a custom build and will have the better dev tools just like the 360 had.
MasterCornholio  +   617d ago
But don't all consoles have custom hardware design? And how do you know that the 720 will have better development tools?

So far most developers have been praising the ease of development of PS4 software so the dev tools can't be bad at all.

Edit: When did Microsoft announce the specifications of the 720? As far as I know the 720 hasn't even been unveiled yet so what evidence do you have that proves that Microsoft's console is more powerful than the PS4.

Motorola RAZR i
#23.1 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Belking  +   617d ago
Devs have been praising the ease of ps4 because its of a PC nature. Ms rumored specs are more of a custom design. Ms has always had superior tools than Sony. This is just one of the areas where they shine. Specs do matter but how it's put together is most important. Just look at ps3 and Xbox 360 as a good example. Either both these consoles will be even in power or ms will have the edge in technology with its move engines and EDRAM.. In the end it's the developers that matter because they are the only ones with access to these specs.
#23.1.1 (Edited 617d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(7) | Report
MysticStrummer  +   616d ago
"Xbox 720 is gonna have the edge in power and Sony knows it. Their upgrade in RAM won't make that much of a difference. The 720 will be not be basic PC design. It will be a custom build and will have the better dev tools just like the 360 had."

Thank you Nostradamus, but that doesn't matter much for some people, even if it's true. I just spent the evening with several people who bought 360s and traded them in for PS3s. Because of this gen, they aren't interested in what MS does next gen. I doubt I'm the only person who knows people like that.
Sarobi  +   617d ago
Specs mean nothing if you don't have games worth playing for the next 5+ years.
HmongAmerican  +   617d ago
Loading screen should be none existence next gen and game install should also go away too.
imchuckbass  +   617d ago
Sorry but, optical disc + hard drive = definite load times
Pandamobile  +   617d ago
Not gonna happen.
superterabyte  +   617d ago
There will be some load times but developers need to use the uncharted method of a decent load at the start and then no load screens at all during the playthrough
hazardman  +   617d ago
Man this old news, we know that PS4 has the better RAM! I just want to see what MS has on the Xbox 720.
superterabyte  +   617d ago
Don't care
Microsoft can do whatever they want but they will never get a purchase from me ever again. TBH I don't think they ever have outright although my notebook came with 'win 7'. reasons why I'm not getting one:

.Made by Microsoft one of the worst companies in the world

.Don't care about average fps games or average arcade racers

.Own nearly all of the ps3 AAA exclusives and love them

.PS + makes xbl fee's look pathetic (of which they are)
kryteris  +   617d ago
why all the fuss? this is a terrible article.
Nafon  +   617d ago
Most console only players don't realise that Ram doesnt matter all that much. The type really doesnt matter. Theres a reason High end PCs use DDR and GDDR ram. Basically, the GPU likes GDDR (which is based on DDR) and the CPU likes DDR Ram. The PS4 will share 8 GB of GDDR5 ram between components, and the Nextbox will most likely have 8GB DDR3 for the CPU and a separate pool for the GPU.
CaulkSlap  +   616d ago
And a PC gamer would know that having the right amount of quick RAM is a very important factor in reducing system bottlenecks. The only reason not to have loads of excess RAM on a PC is because programs aren't designed to utilize it. In a dedicated console developers will use all they are given for one thing or another.

And 360 was the first system to have a shared RAM pool (512mb GDDR3). It was a significant advantage and is a more efficient method. Why do you think they would go backwards? Nextbox will likely just have 8GB GDDR3 like the rumors say.
Nafon  +   615d ago
Why would it have 8BG of 7 year old RAM Technology? None of the rumors are saying that. SuperDae said that is shares 8GB DDR3. There is just no reason for a game to use more than 2 or 3 GB (which is rare in itself. BF3 for me uses at most 1.5GB on max settings). They will use the ram for the game swapping feature.
taquito  +   616d ago
i hope the next xbox comes out and smashes ps4 specs

not because i want either console at launch, or care who wins, just becasue it would be hilarious

so many sony fans think the ps4 is this ultra powerful, almost close to a high end pc machine (hint...its not even as good as a high end laptop from 2 years ago)

it wouldn't be hard for MS to stomp sony with specs

the ps4's cpu is horribly underpowered, its literally made for a tablet/ipad/nexus/whatever

the gpu is also a mobile chip meant for a laptop...yeas...a.LAPTOP gpu....sad

the ram is good and all....but...who cares if the other parts are junk

so all xbox needs to do is put an i-7 2600-like cpu and a gtx 660ti like gpu and 4-8 gb ram and it will eviscerate the ps4, literally it would 100% destroy everything the ps4 is capable of
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