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Why 60 fps is a must for the PS4 – A Comparison Between 30 fps and 60 fps

"Most of the developers will be aiming for 30 fps and 1080P for the PS4 but there is a noticeable difference between the two. We expect that developers will making 60 fps as standard, atleast for certain genres like racing and sports games. Whether this will turn out true for complex genres like role playing or open world games, remains to be seen."

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MariaHelFutura1202d ago

It depends on the type of game more than anything. If every games was 60fps it would be nice, but it's not an issue at all.

shutUpAndTakeMyMoney1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

So which games should have smooth animations and a smooth experience and which game shouldn't? 60fps bottom line. Simply becuz it's about to be 2014.

Sorry but only console only gamers say this type of thing.

In what game should have 1080p and what games does it not matter?

Xof1202d ago

Framerate and animation smoothness are two very different thing.

High-framerates are really only necessary in action games, where there's a lot of movement. They're of very little importance with 2D games, turn-based games, puzzle games, adventure games, etc.

This is why you see people complaining about the framerate for games like Dark Souls and Dragons Dogma, but not Catherine or Disgaea.

isarai1202d ago

i've seen plenty of games with 30fps have smooth animation, and i've seen games run at 60fps with very rigid and shitty animations. more frames doesn't mean better animations. I don't even know how you made that connection

ChronoJoe1202d ago

In fairness there are plenty games like Uncharted 3 and Gears of War which both run at 30 FPS but run, and animate very smoothly.

Games like Battlefield, Killzone and Far Cry often use lower framerates as an excuse for why they feel a little 'clunky', awkward to control, or lesser animated than their 60 FPS counterparts.

However the reality is that 30 FPS is, whilst not ideal, very acceptable. And the aforementioned titles (Uncharted 3 in particular) are living proof that games can run smoothly and look great at 30 FPS.

It's games like Far Cry 3 that have noticeable problems. Far Cry 3 dips between 30 and about 15 frames per second, when it's running at 30 it's a pretty decent experience, but as it dips own to the lower ranges it's really quite awful.

However a lesser known fact is how framerates tie to input lag. So there are some genres with more timing intensive gameplay very much dependent on higher framerates. For example if your framerate is 60fps, the minimum input lag is 17ms, but on 30fps, the minimum input lag is 32 because the game can only respond on the next available frame.

So that's another something to consider. Games like Thief which are slow and metholodical will probably not suffer from running on 30 frames per second, over 60, whereas games like Street Fighter V, would.

decrypt1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

After all the boasting 1080p 60fps for next gen consoles.

Watch as most console gamers defend 30fps, specially the PS fans.

Funny watching the same people who touted 1080p 60fps for PS4 now defend 30fps. So much for competing with high end PCs. More like Low end now.

Edit: So now frame rate acceptance depends on genre lol.

cayleee1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

Clearly Sony needed to pack more GDDR5 RAM 8GB wasnt enough.

16GB or maybe 32GB would have given us the results, nvm the GPU or the CPU those are unrelated.

nukeitall1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

Like most things, this is blown way out of proportion.

I bet most of you in a blind test can't tell the difference between 30fps or 60fps. Heck, I'm not even sure most of you can tell apart 720p from 1080p.

Point being, the visual part of this has minimal impact.

What you should ask is, how responsive does the game need to be?

@Xof:

"Framerate and animation smoothness are two very different thing."

They are and aren't. Basically if you have a higher frame rate, you *can* have smoother animation than 30fps. However, higher frame rate does not guarantee smooth animation if the developer didn't implement it as such.

No more than 1080p is a better picture than 720p if all you do is display 8-bit graphics or show a blank screen.

You have to take advantage of the 60fps to get smoother animation. To my eyes, I can't really tell the difference between 30 and 60 personally.

@cayleee:

"Clearly Sony needed to pack more GDDR5 RAM 8GB wasnt enough."

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or serious, but 8GB is already overkill for games and most other uses even if that is total combined for GPU/CPU.

There is a cost to all this, and I would like that to be in the affordable region for a large portion of people.

Washington-Capitals1202d ago

60fps vs 30fps
In shooters makes a huge difference. Especially in online play.

Black Ops vs Modern Warfare. Blackops overall is a better more polished game but the gameplay doesnt compare with MW. In MW you can play on a 3 bar, in black ops you are screwed on a 3 bar.

snipermk01202d ago

ummm is it just me of do both the comparison GIFs look the same? :[

pete0071202d ago

@cayleee,why not putting 10 times more to see what happens?? or go only 4gb with a faster gpu?
i´d prefer the second option, RAM alone does nothing, RAM is only for storing and moving data, nothing else.

thechosenone1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

"We were told [PS4] was 4GB originally," Gilray told us, "and we first knew it had 8GBs when Mark said at the event's stage, 'And it has 8GB of memory.' >We'd had kits at that point for a good while."<

"Gilray's comments suggest that third-party developers could have been developing PS4 games targeting lower system requirements than the console's actual capability - which could go some way to explaining the suspected 30fps cap on the Unreal Engine 3-powered Thief."

http://www.videogamer.com/n...

MariaHelFutura1202d ago

60fps- Battlefield, Killzone, Gran Turismo, GOW. 30fps- LBP, Journey, GTA V. To answer your question, of course this is all my opinion. To bad we can't conversate more, it's been longer than 15 mins....

vulcanproject1202d ago

30FPS good, 60FPS better.

Shiny graphics good, Shinier graphics better.

Take your pick, one or the other. The developers will really chose, and most of them will chose 30FPS and shinier graphics.

Really that's just the end.

starchild1202d ago

This whole discussion of 30 fps vs 60 fps is misguided, in my opinion.

What we should really be demanding in our console games is frame-rate consistency. On PC we can always overcome limitations, but on console if a game has a juddery frame-rate, we are stuck with it.

Yes, 60 fps is better than 30 fps, but I would take a stable 30 fps (Uncharted 2 by and large is a good example) over a stuttery 60 fps anyday.

Console gamers should ask for a stable 30 fps, no screen tearing and decent anti-aliasing in EVERY game. This should be the standard on consoles.

RioKing1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

Lol, we are 4 months into 2013 and already I'm reading things like "it's about to be 2014". Well then heck, if you round it up...it's almost 2015! Which is practically 2016! Sorry for my sarcasm -_-

SilentNegotiator1202d ago

30fps isn't "not smooth" no matter how much insisting elitists do.

Axe991202d ago

Haha - I rarely get 60fps when playing PC games either - remember, _most_ PC gamers (just check the Steam Hardware Survey) do not have GTX680s or HD 7850s. Hell, even with my new GTX 660 Cities in Motion only does around 30fps on large maps, and the Witcher 2 is about 45fps.

There's PC gamers, and then there's a small group of tech-focussed, highly invested PC gamers with rigs that pump out insane resolutions and frame rates. I'm a PC gamer (as well as console), and for me I'm pretty relaxed about frame rates.

Gaming1011202d ago

Looking at those comparisons between 30 and 60 FPS... and PS4 won't have all of its games at 60 FPS? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOObody cares.

TheRealSpy1202d ago

You can take any average PC and adjust the game settings to match ps3/360, and you'd easily be able to run just about every game at 60fps.

sure, if you try to crank the graphics all the way up, that might not be the case for every game.

Dee_911202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

You dont really notice fps in character animations.You will notice it with camera movement and the actual character moving across the camera.
For me its not as big of an issue as some make it.Same with 1080p.HD looks HD to me, rather it be 720p or 1080p I cant tell any real difference.

MaxXAttaxX1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

Seriously, a game running at 30fps CAN have very smooth animations and a 60fps game can have mediocre animations and frame drops. When you watch movies filmed in 24fps are they choppy?

It's about CONSISTENCY.

So 'MariaHelFutura' is right. It depends on the game.
___

http://www.videogamer.com/n...
Games shown at the reveal, such as Killzone, were only using about 2GBs.

kupomogli1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

@decrypt

It was the Nintendo fanboys that said every Wii U game was going to run at 1080p with 60fps.

@nukeitall

"I bet most of you in a blind test can't tell 30fps over 60fps."

Why wouldn't you think so? It's not difficult. 30fps is very noticeable while 60fps you can't notice any judder. Like it's silky smooth.

30fps is so easy to notice that even in this slow motion video of Battlefield 3 PS3 vs PC, you can visually see the PS3 framerate because there's the judder between movement on PS3 compared to no judder on the PC version.

The PS3 has screen tear as well, but you'll notice the difference as it's across the entire image.

www.eurogamer.net/articles/di gitalfoundry-face-off-battlefi e ld-3?page=4

Gamer19821202d ago

Thing about 60fps is not all TV's can actually display it. People don't realize this. PC gamers have no issue as they run monitors for games but unless your TV is 60hz or higher you cannot even see 60fps.

Dude4201202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

I'm primarily a PC gamer and preferably play games at around 60 FPS. However, I can tell you that you don't need 60 FPS in many games. IMO, games that benefit from the higher amount of frames are ones that require precision. This includes FPS's and to some extent RTS's (like Starcraft 2). There's more responsiveness to your movement.

However, when I look at games like Uncharted, Gears, God of War etc..., I can see that 60 FPS is not needed to enjoy the game. This is because the gameplay doesn't require you to have huge reflexes like other faster faced games.

So in the end, it really depends on the game.

@ Gamer1982

I'm pretty sure a vast number of people have LCD's now, my brother's TV from 2007 runs at 60 Hz. Also, unless I'm mistaken, I'm pretty sure most CRT's (if not all) run higher than 60Hz.

Feralkitsune1202d ago

I'm a PC gamer and I agree. This is only an issue for games that need the fluidity. I'd gladly sacrifice my FPS for better visuals, physics, and gameplay.

papashango1202d ago

came across this on reddit awhile back.

best example of fps i've found so far.

http://htmlpaste.com/19d372...

inveni01201d ago

There's nothing wrong with 30fps. When you watch a movie, you watch at sub-30fps speeds, and there are no complaints. In fact, when The Hobbit brought higher frame rates, it actually made the movie look awkward. So there should be a good balance between overkill and pretty. I trust the developers to draw that line for their specific game.

CalvinKlein1201d ago

uhh clearly the games that push the visuals will be lower than 60fps.

I dont get why people are expecting some set resolution or FR. for one FR fluctuates usually in each game already. we will even see PS4 games at 20FPS im sure.

masa20091201d ago

But with a closed system there will always be the incentive to add gameplay features and cut the framerate a bit to make it possible.

And really PC is doing pretty much the same, it's not a closed system but every time you add features you cut down the number of users/machines that can run the game at 60 FPS.

MaxXAttaxX1201d ago

Why does the 120 look like 60, 60 like 30 and 30 even lower? Seems inaccurate.

+ Show (26) more repliesLast reply 1201d ago
ATi_Elite1202d ago

If your gonna Bragg and Boast about graphics and 8GB GDDR5 then you better have a GPU capable of pumping out AAA games at 1080p @ 60 fps with post processing on.

having to drop down to 720p to get 60 fps shows the limits of a GPU.

60 fps is important cause it is butter smooth gaming at high fidelity and no dropped frames. Drop Frames will get you killed in MP mode which is why 30 fps sucks in MP mode.

Don't Bragg about graphics but then FAIL to deliver the Gold Standard, 1080p 60fps post processing On.

Don't sit there and say 60 fps doesn't matter when every Dev wishes all their games ran at 1080p 60 fps post processing on.

60 fps mattered back in teh day when Snes, Genesis, Neo Geo, Turbo GFX 16 ran games at 60 fps

MariaHelFutura1202d ago

I don't brag or boast about anything, that's your job...

princejb1341202d ago

It does not matter
Not all games require 60fps to run smoothly
Only games with a lot of action require it

Uncharted is a perfect example where it was locked at 30fps and it ran very smooth

I fell like this generation is to concerned with numbers even if many cant tell the difference
This includes 1080p and 720p

zebramocha1202d ago

@ati if they drop the resolution that doesn't necessarily mean the gpu is weak,they could be pushing an effect or do something that's to demanding so a comprimise is made.

Jobesy1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

@Ati, "Don't sit there and say 60 fps doesn't matter when every Dev wishes all their games ran at 1080p 60 fps post processing on."

You're wrong: http://n4g.com/news/1225997...

Devs that aren't lazy will strive for and achieve 60 fps for most games, but some just don't bother.

BrianC62341202d ago

The PS4 can definitely handle it. Developers probably don't want to bother with it for their first games. They'll for sure go with 60 fps later though. First generation games never take advantage of the power any new console has.

cayleee1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

@Brian

I wouldnt hold my breathe, people made the same claims for PS3. As the gen went on the games suffered with lower FPS instead of going higher.

EX: Farcry 3, Crysis 3, Skyrim, Mafia 2 etc.

Its simply due to devs pushing graphics further. Hence dont expect to see 60fps later on, if you dont see it now. History just has a way of repeating itself.

Coach_McGuirk1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

if these guys saw their precious sony exclusives at 60 fps there's no way they'd accept 30 ever again.

esemce1202d ago

Well said I'm sick of console only fanboys saying 60fps does not matter, it [email protected] well does especially for FPS's/Racing and fighting game and even more when it's online MP.

Sadly I think the next consoles will go for visuals over framerate, I'd rather have [email protected] than [email protected] for the above mentioned games.

Suppose I will have to play 3rd party games on PC still for the performance and consoles for the exclusives.

pete0071202d ago

am with you ATI_elite, silly to see ps´s hardcore only to bash other systems, when it comes to higher demands, they go soft.
WE both play for sure at the GOLD standard since the early days of DX10, till now.
i dont accept less than that for me. the day my rig chunks at [email protected] full detail, ill just rebuild a stronger one.

kneon1202d ago

60fps is over rated, even in MP. On consoles it doesn't matter because everyone else is in the exact same boat so you are competing on a level playing field.

I'd rather have better graphics and physics than 60fps. And better graphics are not just for making things look pretty. If we had good enough graphics then games wouldn't have to resort to highlighting which fuzzy blob on the screen is the ammo/health pack/power up etc. You would be able to tell what it is just by looking at it, just like in the real world.

xXxSeTTriPxXx1202d ago

I well be getting a ps4 day1 but 1080p 60fps is what I thought the next gen wad going to be out the gate.

It does sting a little that this isnt made standard and it does matter.

tee_bag2421202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

Any enthusiast realizes by now that 60fps @ 1080p (at least) is the holy grail of gaming.
Anything less is a compromise. Its sad to see such compromises are already being accepted by fanboys on a brand new console that hasn't even been released.

It does matter if a game runs at 30fps because it feels like a slide show, essentially your brain is filling in the gaps. So I guess subliminally fanboys are fooling themselves.

I'd sooner 720p at 60fps if it can't be done at 1080p.
But I can guarantee fps will be sacrificed for resolution since screen resolution is the only measurement these fan-bait comparison websites use.

papashango1202d ago

I recall seeing PS fanboys jumping for joy when the guerilla dev said there are no bottlenecks in the ps4.

Seriously how much BS is this when 60fps is not even the standard for next-gen consoles.

I seriously would like to eventually game on consoles but 30fps FOV=55 makes me feel sick fast.

CDzNutts1202d ago

Uncharted, Gears and their 30fps goodness say hello.

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 1202d ago
hesido1202d ago

This is SUCH a bad test.

There's no guarantee of 60fps update in a browser window.

Please take a look at my blog post:
http://n4g.com/user/blogpos...

60fps is great for bigger movements, camera pans, fast perspective changes.

60fps enhances the feel of any type of game over 30fps counterpart. Bejewelled or Zuma at 30fps looks signicantly inferior (some flash based versions ran at 30fps) compared to native versions which ran at 60fps, even though they are merely "casual" games.

I plan to prepare better videos including gameplay, as the comparisons here suck bad.

Regards,
Emrah

delboy1202d ago

Here's a simple example, if you like it you can include it in your blog.
And maybe explain to gamers why it is bad for the eyes to play games with inconsistent and low frame rates.

http://boallen.com/fps-comp...

hesido1202d ago

This is a great test, it also lets you know if you are actually updating at desired fps. It also lets you see how 60 fps enhances presentation value of even a casual game (the jumping block is reminiscent of casual games.)

xXxSeTTriPxXx1202d ago

Playing rage on ps3 made killzone fill ackward for a while lol.60fps fill so much better.

BuLLDoG9091202d ago

i think these comparison giFs are stupid, a thread pops up at gaf, and then everyone starts posting them on forums, making articles.
I think this plays down the importance of getting 60 minimum.. its far more the "feel" of a game at 60 frames compared to 30, its that smooth feel when you look around without any controller input lag that makes 60 and above great... how people meant to get that from some stupid tiny gifs....

popup1202d ago

That comparison gif thing sucks. Try this instead.
http://www.newgrounds.com/p...

ATi_Elite1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

That was Awesome and a very BIG difference between 30fps and 60fps

all consolers need to see this link by popup

http://www.newgrounds.com/p...

30 = choppy
60 = Butter smooth

anyone who says 30fps doesn't matter is FOOLING themselves cause it does make a HUGE difference and 60fps is BETTER.

AzaziL1202d ago

definitely agree, was able to spot the difference within seconds for each example.

monkey nuts1202d ago

I just did that test and was only getting 38 to 40 fps, so the difference was not noticeable. However, considering I am on my ps3s browser it kinda makes sense lol

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1202d ago
Good_Guy_Jamal1202d ago

N4G pre-ps4 reveal: 1080p and 60fps is a must for next gen!
N4G post-ps4 reveal: 60fps isn't really a must for every game. It would be nice though.
What changed folks?

Muerte24941202d ago

Good_Guy_Jamal pre-ps4 reveal: Ps3 article troll
Good_Guy_Jamal post ps4 reveal: Ps4 article troll

what changed folks?

specialguest1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

That's exactly the hypocrisy that's been dominanting n4g for the past 3 yrs now amongst the these fanboys lol, but now it's so obvious. Not too long ago they bashed the Wii U for running games at 30fps or 720p. The Wii U is a weak system, its not a huge surprise that it's limited. However, now that we have ps4 games that are not capable of 60fps at 1080p, suddenly 60fps doesn't matter lol! Had it not been for GG being the first to introduced the KZ:SF and its framerate limitations, these fanboys would've cried out Lazy devs!

jlemdon1202d ago

I think 60fps is better for action games like Ninja gaiden or Devil May Cry. sorry the re-boot was too slow for me but it was good also.

I think most games should be 60 fps, don't have to be 1080P could be something close to 1080P.

Hicken1202d ago

Nothing's changed. The same people saying it isn't a must now were saying it then.

The same way you're trolling Sony articles now as you were then.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1202d ago
Holeran1202d ago

I always felt that Killzone 3 was a fantastic fps that runs in 30fps. It always felt very smooth to me and I had no problems with it ever. Other shooters never turned out so well at 30fps, to me Battlefield 3 was terrible at 30fps.

Good_Guy_Jamal1202d ago

30fps great when in Killzone. Bad when in any other shooter.
Got it.

popup1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

It's quite simple really.

On any system the devs always have a choice.

60fps but less graphical complexity, smoother

30fps more graphical complexity, not as smooth

No matter how powerful a platform, 30fps with increased detail will always be achievable.

Considering that graphics can sell products and that the screenshots on the back of the box don't move at 60psf(!) it really is NO WONDER that console game developers often go for a compromise.

Take a game like GT5. The game is enjoyed by car enthusiasts. Yaz is also a car fan. He made sure the game ran at 60fps during the actual race but because the fans want to admire the cars in the replay, he chose 30fps with increased effects and details. Photo mode actually renders the picture and runs at much less that 1fps but the results are great.

Maybe the answer is to have options on our console games that, like PC's, allows us to change the detail settings so that you can play what ever way you please.

NeXXXuS1202d ago

Action games such as DmC and GoW don't need 60fps to look good. all of the fast movements need to be smooth and fluid for gameplay so 30fps is right on the mark.

Nitrox1202d ago

You do realize that 60fps is smoother than 30 right? DmC and GoW @ 60fps would be absolutely heavenly.

There's a difference between acceptable, and optimal. Action games @ 30fps are anything BUT optimal.

NeXXXuS1202d ago (Edited 1202d ago )

faster actions don't require more frames since the image moves faster. not sure if it should apply this way but it only seems logical. i just think of it like drawing images on a sticky note pad to make a moving picture or film on a film reel.

jlemdon1202d ago

DMC and GOW were always 60FPS dude...smh you must be new to these games.

Zhipp1202d ago

I'd prefer if everything were 60fps, but I agree that 30fps is acceptable. Only if it never drops below 30, though.