Major Nelson writes: "I wanted to give you the official Microsoft Statement regarding some comments you may have seen yesterday."
Sorry, Major Nelson. What was said is said. The genie is out of the bottle, and until Microsoft speaks up to deny it, we're pretty sure we know what they're going to be doing with the NextBox. And guess what? A lot of gamers don't like what they see.
What would you like Microsoft to do? Announce their is a next Xbox by denying a rumor of DRM? Ya, I can see that going well. They are in a tough spot, I'm surprised they gave any comment about it at all. The genie so to speak is that DRM is coming and Microsoft isn't the inventor of it and if it is true, they aren't going to be the only ones. So far we know Destiny is DRM, now perhaps AC4 and Watch Dogs....it's getting interesting and not in a good way.
Getting ugly guys. From Gaf http://www.neogaf.com/forum... If this happened... man, if this happened... Man, I'd hulk the f out Hogan, Incredible, Savage- doesn't matter Somebody would be getting their ass kicked. I don't know who. But somebody You can disagree all you want, but imagine pulling a comeback like that off in SF or any game and getting disconnected? Insane
Everyone and their dog knows Microsoft is releasing a new console. Killing this rumor now would be a good thing. Them saying "no comment" just reinforces the validly of the rumor.
but what was "said" wasnt really said. it was tweets that could have been by anybody. There is no genie out of the bottle because there isnt any bottle. The figurative "bottle" is nothing more than the speculation by crazed fans of the opposition on the internet looking for anything to try and spin into something they can work with. Its like gaming paparatzi that are looking for the next crotch shot so they can sell it to all other gaming sites as some sort of proof.
@JoySticksFTW, that would suck bigtime. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7...
this pretty much confirms it. there is no reason to keep silent other then trying to cool the subject. they have been planing this for sometime. the xbox is a more diverse system and will include cable tv service able to record tv programs in the back or stream to second or third displays, ability to have you paying apps or games all simultaneously. there looking at selling more subs not only for live but for cabletv, psplus like game rentals all shorts of subs that will bring in load of money for MS all trough the internet. M$ been leaving more and more core games behind and this next step, does exactly that. if you don't have internet or cant pay for it, you wont be as important because you wont be buying the subs anyway..
I don't see how this DRM strategy is a bad thing for gamers or MS. Think about it: 1) Gamers that buy mod chips or used games don't return profits to game makers or MS. Why should MS or developers care about loosing this market segment. It's better for MS if this segment just buys a Sony console, mods it and buys used games. This way MS doesn't loose money on the console. 2) Gamers that can afford Internet can afford new games. Why would you market to a market segment that can't afford Internet. 3) If everyone paid for new games that gives more money to MS and developers, which expands the market and incentive to make more games and invest in cone R&D. This is good for all gamers. 4) Making Internet being a required standard means that developea can create games that are just Online only. This will create better online games. I am ok with MS doing this. I think it's good for everyone. Gamers that want to buy used gams, go with Sony. They are a drain on console developers and software developers anyhow.
@Darth - seems like you're the only one with the tin foil hat because its not just PS3 fanboys talking about this, it's EVERYONE. There are people on the Major Nelson blog saying they've only had Xboxes since they launched, and are now considering switching. It is not fanboys SL"spinning" things, unless you think fanboys are really that organized.
hey now...dont make fun of my hat. it took lots of reynolds wrap to make that. It keeps the aliens from reading my thoughts. oh and its good for popcorn now and then. As for the 'fans' yes i do think they are organized. Like ants that cannot think for themselves, they are organized to follow whatever is being fed to them. They need to snap out of it. I dont have enough foil for everyone but if i did....it might help them break that singular consciousness and allow them to think as individuals again.
whether the always online happens or not, a MS high ranking executive confirmed that it was indeed a MS's employee on Twitter last night
it wasn't "anybody" like you said
OMG! are you serious? or you really really need this explained to you?
The statement from Aaron Greenberg, Chief of Staff for Interactive Entertainment Business at Microsoft, was NOT released through Twitter, it was an official Microsoft Statement released through a company's spokeperson to gaming websites
also you can find it here on Major Nelson's blog: http://majornelson.com/2013...
like I said the statement doesn't confirm that what that moron said to be true, or even that the 720 exists, but it DOES confirm however that that moron WORKS for MS.
let me know if you still don't get it
@jek_Porking Just say the rumor is not true and x720 will not require always online connection. Simple.
MS may be forced to say something soon. Read the official reply again because it's not going to help them: "We apologize for the inappropriate comments made by an employee on Twitter yesterday." That means they now confirm it was an employee. The question is why would an employee say anything when so far everything is so secretive unless they don't like the leaks? "This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views do not reflect the customer centric approach we take to our products or how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers." Yet there was no denial or correction to what that employee said. "We are very sorry if this offended anyone, however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter." Again no denial of his comments, only to further wait.
Do you really believe that a console that's not even announced yet will be affected in any real way by rumors NOW?? lol The console itself at the earliest won't be on shelves until the end of the year or more likely next year. We've seen this before things are constantly said and changed back and forth, with so many gaming blogs(the internet) there is always so much misinformation= In reality what gamers will care about is what is said when Microsoft announces the specifics about the console, everything said now is just fanboy drama nothing more. I highly doubt that Microsoft is going to introduce an "always on" type functionality for their next console that will be implemented in such a way that unless you have a active internet connection throughout gameplay that you will NOT be able to play a game you've already paid for. Sure you may need a internet connection as some sort of sign in/DRM but I don't think it will be anymore than that. Microsoft is very smart, the xbox division is making them tons of cash so I'm sure a lot of thought is going into how to best implement this without alienating the vast majority of their fan base. I have dealt with quite a lot of people from those who are doing pretty well financially to those who are barely making ends meet, so maybe I'm crazy but who doesn't have the internet?...or more revelant who owns a xbox now and does not at least have internet? I mean speaking purely from my work experience along with my own personal experience over the last 2 years I honestly can't think of anybody I know of who does not have some sort of internet connection. I know that as of June 2012 about 80% of Americans were at least using the internet, plus most of xbox sales come for places like Europe/UK, Canada and Australia which have over 60% internet penetration. http://www.internetworldsta... The better news is that the internet penentration percentage is much higher among those who actually own a gaming console. As for those who cant afford or don't live in areas where internet is NOT available well I doubt these gamers are really a big part of Microsofts plans for their next console, if you hate the idea of needing a internet connection just to play then just buy a ps4 and forget about xbox, I'm sure despite all of the "OMG this is the end for xbox", Microsoft's next console will still have huge sales and the games will be great for the rest of us.
@cosmo 1. Piracy will still be an issue. No amount of online DRM will prevent it. This move only affects the users which may purchase things legitimately, much like current DRM does. 2. True, but it's arrogant to assume that everyone has access to good reliable internet. I know living in a suburban or urban area, it may seem pretty ubiquitous, but move outside these areas and many people are still not on reliable services, if they even have access to it at all. Outside the US, it can be even worse, even in major cities. 3. Agreed, but that has nothing to do with an always on connection. 4. Developers already create games that are online only. It's required to be online to play, hence the consumer would hopefully know not to buy the game if they don't have online. In this case it's a choice, not a requirement. There is no reason to assume the games will be any better, as an internet connection is going to be guaranteed in all next gen consoles. The issue is does it need to be mandatory. You think it's good for everyone, because you don't know all the circumstances that the consumer may have to deal with that may hinder their game playing habits as a result of a decision like this. Just because it doesn't seem like a big deal to you doesn't mean that you should ignore the many people who have given instances where it would be bad for them. Used games are not even part of this debate, and while this move could block them, it isn't a reason to force an always on connection. There are other methods to block used games if the need were there. Even if it was the primary reason for this type of thing, it would only make piracy more appealing on the system, and believe me, something like this would likely get hacked quickly. At the very least some hacker community is going to find a way to screw up a lot of players by hacking MS just to make a point. Does it still seem good for everyone now?
A few potenial scenarios here: 1. MS is pushing this info out early, before the launch, so the fans will have a few weeks to vent out their frustrations before the console reveal takes place. That way the negative shock of people learning of the machine's always on DRM will be reduced, enabling them to focus on showcasing the games and all that without them being drowned out by negative press. 2. This guy just leaked out info he wasn't supposed to yet, and now MS is going into damage contol. 3. He's just full of crap. I'd lean towards 3 if it weren't for the constant rumors from very credible sources agreeing with what he said.
@rain You make a good argument, but you missed my primary point- Product differentiation is a good thing. If the rumors are true, then Xbox will be a great product for people that have Internet and can afford to buy new games. That's good because it opens a market for another console to target people that don't have great Internet and can't afford new games. It's like the car market-, it wouldn't be good if every car was a four door sedan. Personally, I think it's bad that MS and Sony try to mimic each other so much. It's good to see MS try something different.
I didn't miss your point at all. Under your assumption, your saying that the competition isn't going to be targeting all those people that do have an online connection and buy new games as well. Your assuming that MS is going to have this market all to themselves. Given Sony's announcement that is most obviously not going to be true, and even Nintendo has an online infrastructure. From a consumers standpoint, if they can get pretty much the same experience on another console without the restrictions(and believe me, a lot of consumers do understand what always-on means), then why would they pick up the one that limits their purchase? Basically, my counter-argument is Sony and Nintendo's system are both great for people that have internet and can afford to buy new games. This is not a way for MS to differentiate itself on the market in a positive way that is beneficial to consumers. If other rumors are believed to be true, then it is their focus on media/casual/cable box integration which will differentiate it...much more positive, and not limiting to the consumer.
@ darthv72: "but what was "said" wasnt really said. it was tweets that could have been by anybody." except it's already been confirmed that it was a legit account, not a fake one.
@ JoySticksFTW "You can disagree all you want, but imagine pulling a comeback like that off in SF or any game and getting disconnected? Insane" Well, the exact same thing happens with every multiplayer experience on every console. When the connection is lost, you won't keep on playing. Yeah, if you play the offline multiplayer / splitscreen you don't have these problems, but only a handful of games offer these modes these days anyway. I am not defending the online requirement here. It won't affect me, but I still dislike it. But the point of discontinued multiplayer gameplay due to a lost connection is valid for every device that offers online gameplay.
@Dirty Tell all of that to the games tournament communities. Which console do you think will be used as the default tourny machine next gen for Madden, fighters, FPS, and such when one could lose internet connection and screw up outcomes between competitors sitting right next to each other under the same roof. And it's not just multiplayer games that are potentially affected. Heck, if I'm playing a single player game and I finally pass a boss that was giving me trouble (like f'n Flamelurker) or I'm about to beat the game and my internet craps out, I'd be like WTF?! Noooooo!! D: And we all know what it's like to be unable to connect to servers for extended periods and for numerous reasons (Xbox Live holiday mess, infamous PSN hack, maintenance, hot game Day One login overload, shotty internet connection, etc). All of that sucks for online games, but we are (were) always able to play single player games or local multiplayer. That would change if Orth had his way. Uh, Edit: He might have been canned http://4playernetwork.com/b... I think MS PR and Legal ninjas might have gotten to him
JoySticksFTW That gif ended all arguments for anyone claiming always-online (forced online) as being an okay thing. One of the most epic moments in gaming... ruined. "What does Adam Orth actually do at Microsoft?" "Clean out his desk." These guys are hilarious.
I wonder what all the people here claiming it *must* be true since MS isn't responding and it later turns out to be false?! I bet ya they are all going to scurry away to a different excuse and pretend like nothing ever happened.
@nueitall "I wonder what all the people here claiming it *must* be true since MS isn't responding and it later turns out to be false?! I bet ya they are all going to scurry away to a different excuse and pretend like nothing ever happened." I for one will be relieved. The longer that we can hold off on stuff like this, the better for all gamers. We all have our preferences, but I hope most Xbox, Sony, Ninty, PC gamers can agree with that. With that uproar on Gaf, the sentiment later in the thread is they hope MS has heard their fears, are taking them seriously, and have learned that some people find this practice anti-consumer. Most rational gamers aren't waiting to laugh. Most gamers are hoping this will change MS' course of action if always online truly was planned.
*sigh* gaming is not what it used to be...
Despite this guys comments on twitter, I do not believe he was talking directly about the Next Xbox. He was probably talking about the idea of an Always on console. Microsoft is seeing all the massive uproars the rumors and now this has caused.Even if they had this originally planned, They will not go through with it NEVER. So if i were you i would leave the "This confirms always online Xbox 720" comments at home. If they do go through with this after all this negativity.. I will buy a fucking PS4 and i will show you the receipt. -Loyal Microsoft Fan.
I agree, but I don't think you will need a constant internet connection to game on the next xbox. You would think a company with a brand as successful as xbox has done some major research in regards to what percentage of current and potential xbox owners have internet available if they are going to require it. Given all the different internet variables such as speed, bandwidth, and drops/reliability depending on the service; logic says they will likely want users to have internet connectivity available at least to login for some sort of DRM purposes. Its funny because all the complaining is coming from folks who obviously have internet, like most xbox owners now, Microsoft knows this, but people just like to complain especially when they have an agenda.
Spot on. I also don't know anybody who doesn't have the internet & if it goes down, which mine has never done here in the UK in the last 5 years, do something else till its back on. I'm always on now on both consoles & pc, when I turn on the first thing I do is to check my friends lists so it makes absolutely no difference to me. People need to get a grip.
I really wish that people would stop saying that Microsoft planned to remain silent. I'm sorry but if someone was spreading 'false' rumors that could damage my credibility and the credibility of my company, I would have to speak up.
i guess xbox fans have to move to another city state or country to play the xbox720
@cosmoracer What a complete fool. Your reasons are backed up by absolutely nothing. Microsoft already make millions more revenue than Sony through charging for basic online play and basic access to your already paid for Netflix account. Yet does Xbox Live have a 255 Player online shooter??? Was the reason that the Xbox version of Portal 2 not coming with a free PC copy and cross play/saves/trophies with the PC version too all because of Xbox Live itself??? Did Microsoft close down more game studios than set up more in the last 6 years? Does Xbox Live have a vast Free to Play MMO on it such as DC Universe Online? And the answer to all these is, no. Not because of choice though, it is because NONE OF THESE ARE POSSIBLE on Xbox Live. The real massive blow will be if Valve and Sony shake hands at their E3 Press Conference with Steam coming to PS4 in some shape or form (even with this new Steam console coming but let's face it, this was all because of Windows 8, also made by the people at the heart of this whole discussion). Oh but because a few people hacked the 360 that is why none of this was possible on the console and the next console with its online only will fix all this because of more profit??? Poor deluded fool.
May Orth's employment be RROD'd. http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-X...
Evidently it was... http://www.microsoft-career...
Anyone get the feeling that this whole "always online" thing is just a rumor Microsoft has started only to debunk with their announcement, acting as if they always had "hardcore" interests at heart?
It feels like an easy way to generate publicity about the console without "officially" stating anything.
Remember Fords campaign for the Focus in the 90's? The one where they just showed 30 seconds of the most brutal Ford car crashes with red text across the screen that said "Fatality!"? No, me neither.
Getting potential customers pissed at you it not a good marketing strategy. Even if they decide not to go through with the always-on requirement the damage will have been done.
@Ashlen I'm not following. @kneon Like I said, it's just a hunch. And what possible damage can be maintained from this IF what Orthi hints towards is indeed false? A bunch of wasted vitriol against MS over what a non-official spokesperson of the 720 project stated on twitter, that never specifically stated it was always-on, can now be used as a reason for potential customers to not purchase a gaming console...that has yet to be officially announced?
Kneon, pray tell how damage is done if the subsequent Xbox announcement shows the rumor to be untrue? How will MS lose their fanbase when that happens?
Among MS loyal fan base, there won't be any damage because quite honestly, this is the most level headed I've seen them be in years. They're taking a wait and see approach, much like many that prefer Sony did with the blocking of used games rumor. The damage comes in that this whole thing is going viral. It's gone from some rumors discussed among the forums, to a huge melodrama of what if's and spurious confirmations. To make matters worse it is starting to approach the mainstream press, and it's quite possible it could make major news within the next couple days. This will undoubtedly stick around for a while, even if the actual rumor turns out to be false. A retraction in the future will not receive the same amount of press as the actual rumor has, because it's not inflammatory enough to make the media do much with it. It's like seeing a front page headline that is completely false, but then the retraction goes onto a small snippet on page 5B. Among people who don't keep up with this(ie the majority of consumers), it will forever be in their mind, and requires a lot of marketing in order to overcome. Marketing that could be better spent elsewhere.
@rainslacker The whole problem with the "retraction on 5B" angle is the fact it's aimed to be expunged at E3, the biggest time for gaming news in the whole year. All major gaming news outlets will be covering MS' details of the console minute-to-minute; even one or two non-gaming focused news networks will be there. To say these inflammatory post-Orth rumors will sustain a greater sway in one's purchasing power over say...hearing the actual facts about the console just seems bunkum to me.
That's why I qualified my statement to say people that don't keep up with this stuff. E3 doesn't really make the mainstream news in such a way that it is really effective to the common consumer. To those that follow all this news we will know what's up. My point was, if this hits the mainstream news outlets, they will talk about it, and consumers will make a decision on it regardless of merit. The news media today does not wait around for confirmations when they have a juicy story that can get people riled up. It may be proven false in the future, and some news outlets may indeed retract what they report, but don't expect them to make a big deal about it compared to the original so it gets back to the consumer in a meaningful way. If it is untrue, it just isn't exciting enough to really spend much time on it for most news outlets. My scenario is of course speculation, and this may not hit the mainstream, but it seems that it's already getting to the lower levels of mainstream, and that usually means it's only a matter of time before the bigger companies pick it up. Basically my point wasn't that it wasn't going to be retracted, it just won't be retracted in a meaningful way, and would be about as effective as a 5B snippet. Also, given how upset people are over it, there's no reason to assume that the common consumer wouldn't get upset as well. It's always been vogue to hate on MS, and this could carry the story longer than it should be...again, just speculation.
But your points aren't really grounded on things we've seen in the past. There's never been a case of some irrelevant rumor never mentioning the console by name getting any sort of time outside of gaming news outlets. Rumors with a source MS has officially denounced don't carry any weight for mainstream news outlets to even care about; in fact, your downplaying attitude of mainstream's covering of what's shown at the E3 event shows just how far beyond the possibility of this even being something beyond a passing instance for mainstream news to cover this twitter fiasco. Beyond what the consumer knows about the product from ONLY mainstream outlets's info, what about the description of its capabilities available for anyone interested to purchase online or at a store? Everything is printed right there for them to know that passing rumor X months back was just BS all along. Although I respect your speculative thinking, I can't respect the notions so many on here are speculating. The only reason I can possibly think some people believe this twitter mistake will have some detrimental butterfly effect to any consumer's choice is because of replaying these Orth internet memes a thousand times over.
I understand what your getting at. And I don't necessarily disagree. But I've seen much more made out of much less in the mainstream media. The mainstream media will take any issue that is hot button and expand on it. If it causes enough outcry among their audience, then they will talk about it more, and other mainstream media outlets will join in(not unlike how a hot button article makes the rounds within the gaming press). Basically it has a snowball effect. Truthfully if it got that far, most major outlets probably would ask for a comment, and at that point MS would likely be forced to comment because they don't want that snowball effect before the console is even announced. MS knows that we will educate ourselves as gamers(more or less), so it's relatively contained for the time being. That isn't the case with the major news outlets though. When people start talking, it's hard to shut them up. Also, why would someone read the box in the store if they already made up their mind to not get the system because of this rumor. And that's my exact point. People will make up their minds before MS ever has the chance to market to them. It's negative press in the worst possible scenario, because now, not only do they have to inform consumers about the product, they have to market to remove the negative perception that it already has. This is one reason MS has such a hard time with their Windows phone OS. The OS is quite good, in fact better than Apples, and on par with Google. But people generally have a negative view of Windows, so despite those that have no problem with windows, the stigma exists among the consumer. We've already seen a butterfly effect to these tweets. Basically even Xbox loyalist are saying they will abandon the console if true. They're being reasonable enough to wait and see(props to them for that), but the steam train is rolling, and it's only going to continue until something comes out to change the rumor. If it continues long enough, it has the potential to get to a much larger audience, and then MS will potentially have a serious problem, regardless of the validity of the rumor.
Sure, mainstream has made bigger issues of other rumors, but never given any dedicated time over a non-official twitter rumor relating to a rumored console. The thing is though, the snowball effect from this has already reached the all gaming news segments and MS has officially stated Orth isn't under the new console's production. It's one thing to cherry-pick moments of mainstream news not waiting for double confirmations, it's entirely something else to stretch a denounced twitter rambling of a unannounced product and talk about it to the general public. Let's say that ludicrous event happens above, who are we to stipulate that an always-on online console rumor will have such a long-lasting effect to the general public that they'll even bother examining what the console OFFICIALLY does when it's released? Dozens of op-ed tech pieces will be made comparing/contrasting each new console around their release with facts given by the company and from testing it out. To suggest some sort of dark cloud of hesitation will be looming over the public's head over a possibly-to-be-disproven rumor seems just as stretched as anticipating this getting any primetime coverage on mainstream media. I don't see how stigma of MS' products really correlates directly with what we're talking about. That disinclination to purchase MS products has been cemented by problems they've personally experienced. If anything, it's more reasonable to discuss who might leave the 720 for PS4 over RROD issues than this.
Still doesn't make them look good either way now. The damage is done.
What "damage" has been done exactly? We still don't know if this always on 720 is true or not. And even if it was, you think Microsoft doesn't have the ability to make this an optional feature come E3 time if they desired to do so?
I have a mission for you. Go to your local Gamestop/Bestbuy/Target tomorrow. Ask customers and employees who Adam Orth is. You'll realize my point when you see all those confused faces.
@ Logic I have a better mission for you... open a new tab on your browser and go to google.com, then type "xbox 720" and you'll notice the first results are all about "Always connected, and controversy". Nobody gives a sh!T about Adam Orth, the only purpose he serves is that now people can directly link the rumor back to an actual person who works for MS....and that's the "damage" that's been done.
Oh yeah...OH YEAH! well.... .... Alright, I'm not going to argue against that because your right.
...Yeah, I don't think so. That would be incredibly foolish of them to do something like that.
...And they still don't deny it'll have this feature.
On a console they have yet to announce.
everybody knows the console is coming. There is like no reason to not put water of the fire but they let the fire spread and do damage. Their choice Sony commented on DRM and always online before they even annonced or showed the PS4 games or features.
what was said "tip your cap and call sony my daddy"
Doesn't change the truth.
Which is what exactly?
the truth he wanna hear
That MS plans to have the Xbox require an internet connection to play games. That wasn't an abstract statement, and with all these comments, you should have been able to put it together. @below: You can keep your head in the sand as long as you want. But tell me, why would a MS employee defend something that didn't exist? You honestly can't be this dense.
@RememberThe357 What? In order for something to be true it has to be fact. Rumors are not fact until proven otherwise. edit: Sorry for not jumping on the bandwagon so quickly, unlike most I don't treat rumors as fact whether good or bad. "Always on" does exist, it has existed for sometime and is even present in games that have already been released... Maybe he's defending SimCity? Maybe he's defending "always on" because the rumors are true about the next Xbox? Maybe he was being sarcastic? Maybe he was just tolling his developer friend? maybe + maybe + maybe != fact. Why don't we just wait and see?
Ok, this awesome:-D "..Sorry, I couldn’t tweet earlier about @adam_orth’s comments about the XBOX always online rumors. My internet connection was down.." Kaz Hirai. https://twitter.com/KazHira...