Yeah, the Unreal Engine was once synonymous with cutting-edge PC graphics tech. Once. But in the future? With Unreal Engine 4.0? Well, it's going to be geared towards consoles, not the PC.
the consoles are thriving whilst PC gaming is...well...not doing so well.
I see the whole "PC gaming is dead/or gonna die soon" threads propped up by nothing factual and certainly nothing that takes into account PC hardware sales or digital distribution. It reminds of the whole global warming debate. No real facts, just a bunch of guesses. I mean, western Europe was in a mini- Ice Age for 400 years. Why can't the Earth rise .7 degrees over 150 years? Tell a lie long enough and people believe it. PC gaming is not dead. Just go and ask Blizzard, EA, THQ, Valve... the list goes on.
The five people who disagree with you must be time travelers from the 1980's lost in this strange and confusing world.
Jason...the problem is people exaggerating it...not that it isn't happening...
There is plenty of factual evidence of a slow decline in PC gaming...It initially started with XBL...all of a sudden the biggest draw for PC gaming was starting to be implemented better on a console...it was easier...it was unified...and it worked just as well (considering the lack of high speed dedicated servers across every game)...
the downside was the required fee MS imposed...making it reach mass appeal much slower...PC gamers were used to mods...were used to free map packs...were used to being able to manipulate the games personally where ever they wanted (another function of the mod support)...paying just to play other people online wasn't welcomed with open arms...
but now there is another network...one that supports all of that...which has the potential to interest a lot more people, including more PC gamers...a small example is UT3 for the PS3...just glance through the forums every once and a while...more often than not you will see guys saying "I ended up just getting this on the PS3 instead of upgrading my PC...other than the small graphical hit, the PC offers no other advantages...plus lacks a lot of the services that the PSN has"...if the PC community was even half of what it was at the end of the 90's, you would get kicked off the forum for saying something like that...
the biggest factor though is listening to developers...Valve has admitted they are the ONLY hardcore PC development studio left more or less...they admitted to being late to the show for consoles, and that their console development planning is a joke compared to the likes of Epic and iD (which is optimizing TE 9 for consoles currently)...every other Major PC game has, or soon will have, a console version, that will destroy it in sales...
You can argue that tracking PC gaming sales is hard...which it is in terms of hardware...but software sales paint a much clearer picture...Publishers are quickly taking notice to the fact that software, despite being more expensive on a console, will easily triple the sales of the PC version...while there is far less licensing stuff to go through for the PC game, the console version will still easily double the profit margin of the indentical game...
as a whole, consoles are becoming more popular than ever...People are much more keen to the idea of everything being unified (network, plays all the games, etc.) than they used to be...the days of upgrading a PC ever other year to play the single big new game are quickly diminishing...
overall though...its not happening as fast as what some are saying...but it is happening...software wise, the PC gaming market isn't growing...and when a business isn't growing...its closer to shrinking than anyone is comfortable with...
the real issue you should have asked about is giving facts on how the PC gaming market is 'better than ever'...
That is funny because the biggest thrills I get from PC gaming is getting to upgrade every year or so! Maybe the mind of a PC gamer is just different than that of a console gamer. I prefer the better graphics, the better hardware, the upgrading, and the newest cutting edge graphics year after year. Maybe console gamers are just content with the same old same old for about 5-7 years at a time whereas PC gamers want more. MORE!!! But I on the flip side - for the uniformed or monetary-challenged I can totally understand console gaming. I enjoy console gaming as well, but I would throw my PS3/360 under the bus to save my gaming PC rig!!
Everybody gets their "thrill" in different ways. I don't get the same joygasm that Jason gets buying and installing new computer hardware. I would prefer to buy a new massage chair that I have had my eye on, or maybe a trip to Cancun with my family, or even buying new rims for my Mustang. I see the cycle of constantly upgrading your hardware as being a slave to your computer. I don't NEED the very top of the line rig, but I do still get that gaming high that we are all looking for. Not to discount the long and distinguished history of PC gaming, but consoles are where it's at right now.
don't get me wrong...I used to heavily be into PC gaming...This is the first console generation in my life where I find myself without a need for a gaming PC...
but I was never fond of the upgrading...I hated sitting around trying to predict how well Half Life 2 and Doom 3 would scale hardware wise...only to find out I basically needed a entirely new video card to really get the games to be impressive...while last generations consoles had absolutely nothing compared to an expensive gaming PC, this generation is much different imo...
I have seen UT3 maxed out on a fully built rig right next to the PS3 version on a 42" plasma...and assuming you sit about 10 feet from the television, there was absolutely no difference that would bother me...
while I realize that the PS3 and 360 can't reach the same levels of resolution or AA...they can still pull of immensely impressive visuals that only one single PC game has topped (of which is Crysis)...and with Far Cry 2 taking the destructability of Crysis and implementing it fully onto the consoles...with a 'they are identical except for resolution'...looks like the consoles may be able to handle the same crazy physics as well...match that with superior online communities, and I have no reason to keep upgrading a PC anymore...
Bubbles, for juxtaposing dying PC gamin with global warming. I agree if it is like global warming than there is no solid proof for the death of PC gaming, just very bias opinion.
did u knwo that gears of war 3 will be using unreal engine 4 it will be for the next gen console ohh man i wanna see how it will look like :D
seems that you got info that i don't.
Its very possible.
this engine will be crazy as just imagine it
Gears of war 3 will still be on Unreal engine 3 but and enhanced version, didn't you see the demo?
that actually was gears of war2,wasn't it?
theres nothing better then unreal engine
HAHAHHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA You have GOT to be kidding me. Do you know anything at all, or do you just spout happy-sounding crap?
He's just "spout happy crap"..the Unreal Engine is so outdated....it was great back in 2006 when Gears launched...
U dipsh1t scumbags must have missed the Gears 2 tech demo.
The Unreal Engine does not impress me at all. There are far superior 3rd-party engines available, and they all have better lighting, physics, and just better graphics in general.
UE3 sits graphically somewhere in the middle of other middleware. There's some beautiful Unreal Engine games, but none of them are the best of the best (in terms of looks). You have to consider when EU3 was made though. It's fairly old now I think, no? It was made before the current console generation if I'm not mistaken, and was pretty freakin awesome when it first hit. UE4, unless they have idiots working for them now, is sure to look pretty damn stunning before once again other engines take over.
Then it better have the following: - Real-time lighting engine that uses dynamic lights to cast dynamic shadows. - Fix texture streaming issues - Updated Physics engine that includes destructible environments (not just chunks blowing off pillars....I'm talking about whole damned buildings coming down - ala Crysis)...Unreal Engine mostly gets used in action games, so please have that included.
You must of missed the Tech Demo that Epic gave at GDC for the latest updates to UE.
Expect to see all this in Gears 2.
Especially if they expect to actually push the PS3 hardware.
I'm a console guy never really like the pc games like that i like the UE3 its pretty good and if it's just consoles UE4 i wonder how it's gonna run on the xbox 360 and ps3 it be amazing
There's hardly any difference between PC and Xbox360 architecture (unsurprisingly). That's why UE3 games are very easy to get running smoothly on the Xbox360 already. Focusing EU4 on consoles will help the PS3 a lot but probably won't mean much for 360 games.
PS3 and X360 won't be able to handle UE 4.0. Tim says it will be for the successor to them meaning the PS4, and X-box 460/720/whatever. UE 4.0 won't be released for at least another 2-3 years. Its been in the works for awhile. In this article he states updates to be released along 2011 and 2012 for it so its likely the engine will hit somewhere between 2010-2013. So Gears of War 3 will not be using it unless it will be released on a next generation console.
As far as running on the PC vs the new consoles. The engine is likely going to go for middle-ground for PC market and match up with the new console specs. So that it can last for the next decade on both PC and console while providing great performance on both of them.
Ohhhhhh god, could someone please email Epic and tell them to hurry up packing their bags. They have been bleating on and on about becoming console only for ages, just get on with it then. It seems the only people that actually care about Epic leaving the PC is Epic. PC users have already voiced their views on Epics rubbish with their wallets. I was one of the poor unfortunate idiots that bought Gears Of War, the dullest, buggiest game I have ever played (not including UT3 which I hear was even worse), I won't be making the mistake of buying a Epic game again.
I mean do I care that their next engine is going to be targeted at consoles .... erm no because their current engine is targeted at consoles. I have yet to play a single unreal powered game that breaks either my media PC or my gaming pc out in a sweat. To be honest I am getting a bit sick of the Unreal 3 engine. Just my two cents, I really wish these guys would stop making such a drama out of it all though.
they are going to rely on API's for the engine, oh, even now is fair to say they are so behind the trends and the future of engines. Why can't they just write to the hardware.
Here's some info for ya... the Unreal engine doesn't use real-time lighting....it uses light maps. The only lighting that's dynamic in UE3 comes from weapon effects. And even then, the dynamic light effects from the weapons don't cast shadows. How sad.
Stupid n00b. Don't pretend you know anything about game tech. Epic do what need to be done for performance. They also create the most cutting edge engines on the planet with top of the line shader support. The new UE for Gears 2 is going to top even what's out now. UT3 looks like sh1t by comparison to what Gears 1 already looks like, or what Gears 2 will look like. There's no need to have full dynamic lighting for static environmental lights. n00b.
LOL Don't go pretending that you know about tech either, because all you do is respond with aggression, LACK of knowledge, complete generalizations, vague statements, opinions, predictions, etc. Light maps are ANCIENT. If there's anything that would REALLY show the power of the 360's GPU, I sure as hell would hope that it isn't f*cking LIGHT MAPS. Have you seen any of the new 3rd party engines coming out? Have you seen what can be done with deferred rendering? Do you even know what deferred rendering is? Do you even think any game in HISTORY (NOT EVEN CRYSIS) has ever come CLOSE to packing over 500 dynamic lights in a single level, along with dynamic shadows cast by muzzle flares and flashlights? You, getpwnzored, in all your ignorance, believe that there is nothing better than the Unreal Engine? Can you give me an example of a game that can have 16 onscreen characters with a combined polygon count of 3.2 million running at 1080p60? (and that's not including the polygons from the world, either) Can you give me an example of a game that has real-time light refraction, wave reflection, HDR lighting, dynamic lighting / shadowing, deferred animation, Character and world water reflections, and global illumination along with subsurface scattering all being rendered in REAL TIME at the SAME TIME in the SAME SCENE? Of course you can't, because all the aforementioned games are on the PlayStation 3, and NONE of them use an engine called the Unreal Engine. YOU are the "n00b" here. Enjoy your negativity.
don't you know GETPWNZORED has an average of F+++ in his actual grade
good work owning getpwnzored 1701d. that shut that pedo up
When the f*ck did I say UE3 was the best engine ever made? I said UE3 is a great engine, one of the best, maybe the best for consoles, and certainly the best for shader support, and Gears 2 on 360 will destroy any game on ps3. if you want to talk theoretical PC engines from the year 3,000, that's another story. But now you're trying to claim games on PS3 run GI in real-time? LOL. Keep dreaming. You may be able to trick your feeble-minded droid army into believing you, but you will have to try harder than that on me. And if you're talking about those idiotic tech demos running on 5 PS3s, oh plz. So yeah, you didn't pwn anyone.
He was talking about Killzone 2 and Uncharted. Both of which do exactly what 1701D said and have been shown running on a SINGLE PS3. Uncharted especially because we already have it and Killzone 2 has been shown in demo for audiences running on a PS3 being played by the dev. Xbox360 has no answer for these games on any engines. Deal with it. No game matches technically or graphically with Uncharted and certainly none with KZ2. Granted Gears had textures but nothing much else. Uncharted has equal textures and all mentioned above. Does 360 have a game at 1080p and 60fps like GT5P which is already out and shown to be true to their standards (the actual game will own). Reality is PS3 is showing itself NOW. Not 3,000 years in the future.
GETPWNZORED always getpwn
yea i know but just imagine the engine on games like gears of war, unreal tournament, mortal kombat and many other games
You're like a sheep....so cute and adorable yet dumb as a rock and hilarious to slaughter en masse in strategy games.
Cryengine has stolen their thunder, and since they've had great market penetration in the console arena, then why not? Sounds like smart business to me.
in 4 years :-/
With the Wii's success, there are probably two scenarios: Either the successors to PS3 and 360 won't be as powerful as Sweeney and Rein think they will be, forcing them to dumb down UE4, or worse, upgrading UE3, wasting all the R&D spent on creating UE4. Even worse, creating engines for such consoles will be so easy given future experience in current consoles, that Epic's tools won't be needed. Or worse, current console generations will last a lot longer due to the Wii's success slowing progress on the technological front, and/or forcing the industry to lower the specs for future games, making PS3 and 360 last way longer. That would make UE4's launch wait a lot more, making Epic waste resources and/or their revenues would decrease significantly. Epic better hope that PS3 and 360 reverse the current trends. In fact, PS3's success is in Epic's best interest now that 360 has somewhat cemented itself on the West. Epic should have offered an exclusive game agreement to Sony in order to boost PS3 sales the way Gears did for the 360; not that PS3 needs it, but it would definitely help Sony and Epic. An act of desperation for Epic would be to encourage EA to make a console so Epic could provide them with Engines. However, EA also wanted to compete with Epic with engines of their own, if not the Cry Engine. Epic's hope in the PC market is diminishing, which is why they'll focus on consoles. But if the trends don't change, Epic will have to undergo drastic changes, as in making more games per year instead of focusing on Middleware; that is, if they don't wanna go bankrupt.
I totally agree, they better step up their game focusing on the PS3. Gears 2 better be the sh1t (beat everything on the market to date) or Epic will fail, Epic fail for them, no pun intended. With so many other great developers like Insomniac, Square, Kojima, Epic will have a hard time to prove they are worth devs money. I hope they improve a lot more, because UE 3 woun't last that long.
Gears of war 3 will use unreal engine 4 u idiot
oh and halo 4 will be using it! also, bruce willis is running for president! oh... wait... are we not yelling out random things that we think would be cool but have no factual background whatsoever? That's what I thought we were doing. :/
And Unreal 2009 will use the Metal Gear Solid 4 engine. See how it all ties together?
I'm really starting to hate Epic's engine. It sucks and is represented in more bad and ugly games than good ones. For every Gears of War and Bioshock there's twice as many Turok and Conflict Denied. To make matters worst when Unreal engine games don't look crap they end up looking the same as everything else. Enough already.
While UE3 was amazing, especially when GEoW came out, I no longer think so. In fact I am becoming bored with all these unreal games, and how they all share the same "look". For me an engine developed specifically for a game has a better look, just look at Insomniac developed games and Uncharted.
As long as they fix the texture pop ins I am good. I get tons of texture pop ins when I'm playing on UT3 and its starting to annoy me.
i never knew that they could upgrade the engine in the current consoles(ps3/360) what are the engines like? is it a software or its a piece of hardware? lol sorry, im just confused about this...
That interview is an interesting read. It supports my impression on how development will evolve - again. We had the early phase where things started thru SW implementation, and people hitting the metal using machine code (assembler) to get the max performance out of the machine. Then all of a sudden, HW acceleration became feasible - and broke all that highly optimized assembler code. But now, all the algorithms are getting complexer and complexer again. Due to widening the fixed function set the HW accelerators evolved into. And all of a sudden we are back to square one. HW doesn't use fixed functions any more but flexible instruction sets (that's called a "processor" - now "micro processor" earns its name again). SW is used to control these functions and we are back doing things in SW again - and utilizing HW to accelerate the code. Turns out technology reached a level, where it merges SW solutions with flexible HW. Massive parallel computing with distributed functionality. Looks pretty damn cool to me, that future. Challenging, but I like cool new stuff. I can see why they are targeting consoles first. Consoles can implement this technology in a very fixed environment, and I see a lot new experimental implementations in the close future - nothing is really established yet. For a more general implementation that would take time to stabilize the environment (for use in PCs ?) and the consoles could possibly be used as a testbed in that area. Just my guess. That new architecture will be heavily used in a simulation environment, basically where games are heading right now. I do not really see the primary need to have this tech at hand to browse the internet, read/write emails or write a document - which is still the domain of PCs today. But if the technology will be established and cheap enough, there's no reason to not have it in PCs. IMO.
I don't think there is a direct comparison to massively parallel distributed computing - unless it is taking common tasks and making them more finely divisible. Multicore is more about ensuring that you efficiently use all the cores while maintaining concurency where as massively parallel distributed systems tend to send out work that gets done but don't really care about concurency.
But a well designed engine should help (especially if it can handle procedural generation, real-time lighting with shadows and improved physics - as mentioned above).
Its more then multicore. He is talking about future architecures which melts the CPU and the graphic chips, and describes different ways to approach the problem. Currently all chip vendors try to find a route to this destination. IBM & Sony went ahead with the CELL, and turned out this is really a very early design. ATI and NVidea started the unified shaders just to find out where they are heading right now: GpGPUs which don't just do vertex/pixel shading but physics and possibly AI. Intel counters with Labaree and new integrated chip sets (and always has with SSE). So, what he said, was, that CPUs will integrate more and more special purpose functions (like stream processing) while GPUs are evolving more and more into a general purpose processor. Both in common share the trend to more and more cores, GPU with a massive approach (132 cores or how many), and CPUs going multicore. Eventually both designs will merge, a massive multicore with even more special purpose cores (e.g. take the CELLx100, 100PPUs and 700SPUs or such - well, sure with different ISAs and implementations, but that's the direction). From the SW approach this is the right time to plan your algorithms. It doesn't matter if you have a coherent or non-coherent 2+10 core design or a 100+500 design later (there is no coherent design if you add shaders to that equation). If you do this design right now, it will scale very well later. The challenge is to find algorithms and ways to break things into small, autonomous pieces and synchronize them.
no news for the wii
This isnt really a big deal.
If you make much effort to make sure your engine runs well on consoles, doenst mean it will run worse on the PC.
PCs will always provide the most "cutting edge" experience. And, the technology will trickle-down to the consoles.
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