Top
90°

John Carmack on id Tech 6, Ray Tracing, Consoles, Physics and more

From the interview...

"PCPER: Based on your new data structure method using ray tracing, could you couple this with current rasterization methods for hybrid rendering?

CARMACK: I saw the quote from Intel about making no sense for a hybrid approach, and I disagree with that. I think that if you had basically a routine that ray traces this area of the screen in the sparse voxel octree it's going to spit out fragments, it's going to wind up having a depth value on there that you could intermix with anything else. Even if you had a ray trace against a conventional architecture you would still want to have a fragment program there that would look almost exactly like current fragment programs that we've got right now. I couldn't imagine wanting to do something that didn't have a back end like that. I mean you might even have vertex processors – the stuff that Intel is doing right now, ray tracing into the geometry, it's very likely that you would in the end want to be able to run the triangles in there that you are ray tracing against through vertex and fragment processors and you're just getting the barycentric coordinate of your ray trace stab. You have to know what you hit but then you have to know what you want to do there. You would want in addition some ability to send dependent rays out from there as extra elements".

The story is too old to be commented.
Iamback3334d ago

Since when he matters? Dude sucks in last 15 years.

JsonHenry3334d ago

Since he is one of the most creative and influential people in the gaming industry. You can say the games suck all you want, but his rendering engines are always top of the line and always sought after by developers.

H-V-H3334d ago

Come on lamback, be serious.

Scerick3334d ago

This guy is a genius and invaluable to the industry. To give him any less credit is insane. I love when this guy speaks, he's so straight forward never fanboyish and knows his stuff.

Jeanne3334d ago

The only thing this clown is good at is self promotion.

He was considered a joke by game engineers years ago. These days no one even mentions his name.

He turned from 'has been' to 'sad relic' when he publicly cried about not being able to handle modern console graphics hardware a couple years ago.

Scerick3334d ago

I'm assuming you work at one of the few major game engine developing studios?

This guy is hardly a has been. Tech 5 is showing some amazing new ways to solve pretty large problems in today's processes in rendering highly detailed open worlds. Anyone who can fit over 2 gigs of textures, uncompressed, rendered in real time, and on the PS3 and 360 is still a genius and very relevant.

tony3334d ago (Edited 3334d ago )

you didn't understand chili about what they were talking about.

Gorgon3334d ago

"The only thing this clown is good at is self promotion"

I think you are refering to Marc Rein from Epic.

"He turned from 'has been' to 'sad relic' when he publicly cried about not being able to handle modern console graphics hardware a couple years ago."

Links, please? There's a video on Gametrailers from 2006 in which Carmackactually says that its easier to develop for the 360 than for a PC...quite the contrary of what you're stating, isn't it?

There's quite a few devs afraid of what carmack comes up with. Some have been spreading lies saying that Carmack was going to quite the industry. Someone is $hitting in his pants...and I smell Epic.

Korosuke3334d ago

@json
agreed but he needs a good game desinger. John Romero... :p

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 3334d ago
Harry1903334d ago

don't really care either.
what matters is good games.
no more no less.

Harry1903334d ago

i only said that i couldn't understand the technical patois and suddenly i'm a sony ...boy.now candystop, you are such a wise individual that you contradict yourself.scum and swines come together.
this is not a personal attack.

candystop3334d ago

I wasn't talking to you sorry! I just posted in the open zone thats all!

SUP3R3334d ago

I like John Carmack, but I didn't like how he bashed the PS3 before fully understanding it, then coming back and saying the system's architecture actually works out to be a positive.
Other than that's he's a programming genius and I respect his views and opinions.

Gorgon3334d ago

Your refering to the mem limitation? Its there still and I don't recall Carmack coming back on that. He still says (like many other devs) that development has to be done by the lower denominator, memory wise, and that still holds true to the PS3.

Regarding the Cell and RSX I don't remember him saying anything negative about that.

Scerick3334d ago (Edited 3334d ago )

I still don't see how the PS3 is the lowest denominator in the memory department. Can you explain this to me please? I was under the impression that the PS3 has 256 MB of XDR main memory and 256 MB of GDDR3 video memory for the RSX. I don't see how half of the available ram being faster than the other half makes the PS3 the lowest denominator. The Xbox 360 is running all 512MB in GDDR3 general purpose format, is it not?

My understanding is that all of the available memory can be used for video and if texture swapping between the two memory pools is used (what Factor 5 claimed they did with Lair) that it matches 360 performance if not outperforms it.

Gorgon3334d ago (Edited 3334d ago )

Sceric:

Memory speed only matters in terms of how much the processor can process and use the fast memory to move data around. Its like, say, in the PCs when you have higher front-sede buses and faster DDR modules. But that doesn't help much in terms of available memory for animation, game code, AI, whatever.

The RAM in the PS3 is not shared. That means you cannot use the 256MB of the GPU for other stuff, only for graphics. In the case of the 360 all memory is shared, so you can balance how much you use where. It's slower, true, but just like in the PC, more is better than slower in this case, unless the mem speed becaomes a bottleneck if the CPU processes more rapidly than what can be transfered through the mem. So far, the lack of more general purpose RAM has been more important than any advantage due to mem speed.

Now, you can use I suppose the system RAM for graphics/textures stuff through the Cell, when you use the SPEs to help in the graphics side. But the reverse is not true as far as I know. You cannot use the mem in the RSX for general purpose stuff, and thats a limitation.

Also note that the 360's OS only takes around 32MB, while the PS3 OS takes around 96MB, so that limits even more the available memory for general game code, etc.

Scerick3333d ago (Edited 3333d ago )

I was under the impression that every game would use at least 256MB of texture memory at all times on the 360 and the PS3 making the point of not being able to use the 256 video memory for anything else moot. I also thought they shrunk the size of the PS3 OS?

As I understand, the PS3 was designed to run games with the Cell and RSX working together to draw (hence the memory split) where the 360 relies almost solely on its GPU to draw and thats why the ports from 360 to PS3 are usually garbage. The RSX just isn't a strong solo performer like the 360's GPU but works wonders in conjunction with the Cell.

Basically; Cell + RSX > 360's GPU + CPU > 360's GPU > RSX

If you look at games like Uncharted and R&C where they use the Cell in conjunction with RSX you get visuals that you wouldn't think possible judging by the port jobs of some games *cough* Madden *cough*.

Bubbles for you btw so we can continue this :D.

Gorgon3333d ago

Thanks for the bubbles, mate.

"As I understand, the PS3 was designed to run games with the Cell and RSX working together to draw (hence the memory split) where the 360 relies almost solely on its GPU to draw and thats why the ports from 360 to PS3 are usually garbage. The RSX just isn't a strong solo performer like the 360's GPU but works wonders in conjunction with the Cell."

Thats correct. The Cell can indeed aid the RSX, so you can use those speedy SPEs to aid in rendering, streaming stuff, etc.

"I was under the impression that every game would use at least 256MB of texture memory at all times on the 360 and the PS3 making the point of not being able to use the 256 video memory for anything else moot. I also thought they shrunk the size of the PS3 OS? "

Thats not correct. You don't always use 256MB both in 360 and PS3. You use what you want/need for a certain game. The problem is, if you want to use more memory for game code, animation, features, AI, etc and 256 of general purpose RAM is not enough, than in the 360 you can cut back on textures and use the surplus for what you need. On the PS3 you just can't. You may just use 64MB of RSX mem, but you will waste almost 200MB because you can't use them for general game code to work with the Cell.

The case of Rage is a very good example. with id Tech 5 what Carmak is doing is using a megatexture system that revolutionizes the way textures are used in game engines. Basically you will be abble to have ultra-super-high quality textures without needing some crazy amount of GPU memory. Theoretically all you need is 64MB of mem for use with the GPU. Its an amazing revolution, and even better is the fact that that comes at a neglegible impact to performance. There would be no need to have GPUs in the future with 1GB or more of memory. This is great also in the sence that you can use the limited amount of RAM in consoles for game code instead. The problem is in the PS3 you gain nothing by saving mem from the GPU.

Hope that was clear enough!

Scerick3333d ago

Plenty clear, thanks again. So all in all both ways have their pro's and con's and in the end they're just different.

Thanks for explaining that :).

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 3333d ago
Mclovin963334d ago

This guy is the ultimate nerd of all nerds. He is the nerd-king.

candystop3334d ago

As usual the Sony fans don't like this guy or any developer who disses the PS3 because the dang thing sucks! From reviews to bluray this entire generation has turned into a mess because of the Sony fanboys who can't take the truth! Games are suffer due to the limitations of the PS3 and Wii this generation and the only hope we have are for games ,made exclusively for 360 and PC! John Carmack is a genius wether you want to believe it or not! He knows a lot more then you I and even your proud developers! This site has gone totally down hill sheesh!

GETPWNZORED3334d ago

Couldn't have said it better myself. I feel sorry for these droids if they can honestly not have the greatest respect for a god like Carmack.

Show all comments (24)