Toshiba, MS, and Panasonic started a working commitee on DVD2 format, recreating HD-DVD experience on DVD

At the same meeting, according to a summary posted on the Forum Web site, the committee approved the formation of a new working group (dubbed WG-12) "to study and specify network applications and related network specification of DVD Forum formats, make recommendations for better interoperability and functionality of network-connected DVD Forum specified devices and content and communicate on relevant recommendations with other standard creation organizations."

What that means in non-Forum legalese, I'm told by sources familiar with the plans, is that the new working group will look for ways to incorporate some of the same next-gen functionality developed for HD DVD into a DVD 2.0 format, including the HDi interactive layer and the advanced network connectivity.

[Cherchez La Ghost]

Some spirits will just not die. This is good for us?! Why?!

-Lower the price for Blu-Ray players to $200.
-Let Blu-Ray movies start at the same price of DVD9.

If this is true, DVD 2.0 already has the upper hand. Upscaled DVD9 players outnumber Blu-Ray almost 10-1. IF they market DVD 2.0 just like Blu-Ray, this will be Blu-Ray's ultimate fight.

[ruibing]

How can HDi and some of these other features be compatible with existing DVD players when most of them don't have flash memory or internet connectivity?

Besides, it's only holding the physical media market back with a capability no larger than DVD-9 with MPEG2 encoding. MS is probably doing this to generate some additional revenues and to hope it helps get more people to go along with DLC.

[zapass]

sour losers are not afraid of ridicule, it's repetitive but quite entertaining.

bring it on xbottox, amuse us, we may throw a bone in return.

[Marty8370]

Without movie studio support nothing can ressurected HD-DVD.

P L A Y B 3 Y O N D

[Cherchez La Ghost]

DVD already has studio support. This is just to upgrade DVD9. Did you read the article? Or you was just fast to shoot down the fact that MS and Toshiba names were in the article.

[xfrgtr]

Marty8370 Totally agree

[skynidas]

i agree

[decapitator]

Last I heard, Toshiba was getting ready to build some nuclear plants.

[TriggerHappy]

Wonder what they could be doing with a nuclear plant ? Perhaps making something to blow up blu-ray ?

http://ca.reuters.com/artic...

[InMyOpinion]

Nucelar plants?!?! Terrrists?!!

[gixxxer]

Mini nuclear plants for in house to power all your electronics!

[rawg]

Toshiba became one of the largest manufacturers of nuclear power plants when they acquired westinghouse electric a few years ago.

[predator]

this could halt blu ray sales a bit

[ruibing]

Only if they manage to get this working completely on all existing players, not an easy task since it asks for advanced interface and internet connectivity that most players don't support.

[predator]

true but its deffently interesting

[rawg]

unless they can somehow increase the capacity of the DVD there is no way they can put an HD movie on 1 disk.

all this is about is adding some of the HDi and network connectivity features onto a regular standard definition disk.

[nirwanda]

runs at 720p on my toshiba non scaling dvd player when useing progressive scan though component leads.

[gaffyh]

I doubt they will be able to make it work on existing DVD players, most likely you will have to buy a new player because my dvd players is a crappy cheap one and the company who make it probably won't even release firmware for it. Lol.

Do Toshiba and MS want to lose more money?

[rawg]

are you sure? usually DVD's are encoded at 480p (720X480) or 576p (720×576) depending on whether you have a NTSC or PAL version. They are also usually encoded at 25-30 FPS. This matches the highest resolutions you can typically get on an SDTV.

[nirwanda]

I have a toshiba SD-340E with it set to progresive scan mode running though the component leads both my infocus projector and my panasonic lcd tv display the signal at 720p every other dvd I have ever tried displays at 576p

[tweaker]

MS is only doing this to push their proprietary format. HDi.

They should really call it quits already.

[RealityCheck]

Wow, I guess MS and Toshiba must have exchanged BFF bracelets.

Seriously though, sounds like a compatibility nightmare. With hundred of millions of regular DVD players already in the market, any "enhanced" DVD disks are going to frustrate a lot of consumers when they won't be able to access all the features shown on the cover.

[mcgrawgamer]

I agree I think this move is more or less to recoup the losses from HD-dvd in an attempt to keep dvd viable a little while longer and in MSFT's case it's probably an attempt to justify their stance to keep dvd in the 360. This may be included in the next xbl update....who knows

[SUP3R]

Actually this has nothing to do with the 360.
This is Microsoft trying to get revenge on the Blu-Ray Association for not choosing HDi as the content layer for BR movies.

With the recent drop out of Toshiba with HD DVD, it meant HDi will also fade to black, which is what they're trying to avoid by developing and introducing a new format.

They are just showing us how money is a wasteful thing to them as long as they get to have their name on something that can be/is a dominating factor in the consumer industry. They try to create a monopoly anyway they can, they disgust me.

[lim_ryan]

wow....microsoft just wan people use their technology monopoly just like hddvd(i heard some tech is from microsoft), wmv n stuff.....cant they just quit....wan to spoil the market n make consumer confuse again....
tomorrow dad should i buy bluray or dvd2.0

[jaja1434]

I really dislike having to read the same sentence 4 times to understand what said sentence is trying to convey. So instead, an empty comment...

[Strife Lives]

High capcity discs ? ! ? Ths could be huge ! ! Forget dvd players at large.just thnk 360 here. The console war just may get crazier

[Gorgon]

The discs capacity is the same. It adds a few stuff to the DVD itslef and regarding HD content what happens is that MPEG-2 gets "upconverted" (read uspscaled) with some new uspscaling tech.

Seems like a good idea.

[mcgrawgamer]

this could give the 360 it's own identity with media format. I mean we all know dvd is not going anywhere, just like cd. so why not build on the existing tech? I think we'll see where msft really wants to go with this if they include a hard drive in all 360 models in the future. But I have to wonder if they are able to get the HD-dvd experience on existing dvd this would fuel my belief that both hd-dvd and blu ray was nothing more than a way for companies to get more revenue over media formats.....rather than simply exhausting all efforts in the current technology.

[LastDance]

wicked idea guys...who gets a star for that 1.

[MK_Red]

Gotta admire Toshiba's ego.

Everything comes to compatiblity. If they can make it work with current DVD players or even HD-DVD players, the battle might... only MIGHT start again but I highly doubt it.

[mcgrawgamer]

I agree the battle may very well be over as blu ray has now gotten a foot hold in the mindset of the consumer, but this would explain why current hd-dvd players have been rebranded as dvd players that can play hd-dvd movies. and one has to wonder if they can get high definition on dvd format. average consumer has not made the blu ray plunge yet and may not make the plunge for at least another year and that's if the U.S does not go into a recession, but if average consumer goes to a store see's a dvd player for 60.00 bucks and a blu ray player for 300.00 bucks if he's not a gamer he may very well go with dvd. I think MSFT and Toshiba are grasping at straws here but this has intrigued me to do a little more research on.

[MK_Red]

Good points but about average customer and players, most people already have a DVD player thus won't need another one so unless DVD2 features work for old players, I don't think they have much luck in this war.
But if they do, things will be really different because DVD is already Blu's biggest enemy and with those new features, things will get more bloody than ever.

[ITR]

It will work with old DVD players since it's MPEG2 SD.
This is no different then folks with profile 1.0 players trying to play 1.1 or 2.0 discs.
The movie plays, but none of the extras work.

[Kojima touches kids]

Why are people focusing on Microsoft and Toshiba. The most interesting part of this story is Panasonic.

Panasonic(Matsushita Electric) is the largest consumer electronics company in the world. It is also the most important company in the Blu-ray disc association. The fact that they are involved in this is big news, maybe Samsung and others will soon follow.

[newneto]

Dont waste money and go Blu.

[supaflypriest1]

When the PS3 price drops, i'll get a bluray player, but until then, i support this DVD2, DVD's are by far the most popular format, so if they can make them better with backwards compatiability with older players, good move.

[SUP3R]

lol
you're supporting something that hasn't even entered the lab and is only writing on paper?
wow
go strong brother lol

[supaflypriest1]

actually yes i will support it, i still support regular DVD, and if i can use DVD2 with my current setup, i'm all for it. Bluray is just too expensive for me at this time, paying $30 a disc is just too much for me. Even if i already had a PS3, i wouldn't buy any movies, hell i didn't buy any HDDVD movies for my 360 add on, just too expensive for movies, i would rather put that money towards games...

[Strife Lives]

That ths may be possible,and everybody said they maxed out the layers standard dvd holds,and anythng else would need new hardware to run

[actas123]

This move is only to extend DVD life by a little bit. Ms is getting into it because they realized the mistake they made with the 360 dvd drive and are betting that this will allow them stay alive until the next xbox, which will probably have a built in Blue Ray.

[rawd]

Cool stuff!

Too bad none of the major movie companies will give a rats a$$ about it. I'm sure they're all dying to move formats one more time

[mcgrawgamer]

they won't have to move formats, this will be upgrading the current dvd format. Most movies will continue to be sold on dvd and blu ray for quite some time...

[rawd]

DVD 2.0 will require a new player to work with this "interactivity" so in essence, it is a new format. People would have to upgrade to a new player to be able to use the new funcionality.

[mcgrawgamer]

this is really intresting. Yeah the customer would need a new dvd player, but if they go into walmart and see bluray/ps3 for 399.99 and one of these new dvd2 players for let's say 99.99 and both are high def avg joe could possibly go with dvd2 just by simply looking at price and knowing it's in high def

[hokis4ever]

I would have to disagree with the whole hidef comment. anything on a dvd9, to me cannot be considered hi-def due to capacity restraints.

[LastDance]

And the person who came up with the name will definatly get employee of the day...

....apparently the hi def war is to confusing so they will swoop in on the other end of the spectrum.

D V D... 2.
(claps)

[Boldy]

The 2.0 just represents that it is an updated version of it, they are still called DVD. Blu-Ray players are on version 2.0, you wouldn't call them Blu-Ray Twos.

[xfrgtr]

Lol,who cares about DVD anymore when you have HD.HDi was a disaster,nobody care about the extra with commentary with PIP OR THE CONNECTION WITH INTERNET LOL.How many of you watch the movie with the commentary on,LOL

[LastDance]

I watched it with the warriors once......ive never watched the movie since.

[akaFullMetal]

i dont, i watch hd movies for the high definiton movie, the other stuff is just extra, so it doesnt even phase me that i get to watch it with pip or commentary, unless you are super hardcore about the movie.

[lim_ryan]

i better go watch my independence day bluray now just release

id4 tech------ http://www.youtube.com/watc...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs...

[Samer305]

Gosh these guys never give up. always trying to beat blu ray.

[Bladestar]

mmm.... interesting... this is what companies should of have done in the first place... instead of forcing people into making a big investment... (buying new tv, movie player, etc) they should push DVD a little further... using MPEG2 SD they can fit an HD movie into a DVD9... though people may not be able to experience 1080P with these at least it would be an easier pill to swallow.. specially concidering that most HD TVs currently in the market are only 720P/1080i. It's a more smooth transition... between DVD --> DVD 2.0 -> Blu-ray... than DVD --> Blu-ray...

The only mistake I see microsoft and toshiba made was trying to push a whole new format.. instead of doing this from the beginning... if they were... and web 2.0 would be out.. things would be a lot different...

DVD 2.0 would be more consumer friendly.. since consumer does not have to buy a new player.. or new discs... or even replace their HD TV they just bought and realized that it's not 1080P...

[JoelR]

actually they would have to buy a new player
how many current DVD players have ethernet capability?
how many are firmware upgradeable?
how many have firmware that is upgradeable and has the space for a HDi implementation?

(I would argue just the new consoles....)

[Trick Nolte]

Mr Bubbles get the soap out your eyes MAN!

[Black_Jack]

yeah, i think you'll find that the reason dvd was so successful was because of the massive leap in quality and space from vhs, DVD 2.0 would be nice but to take on blu-ray would be absurd, they've developd 200GB blu-ray discs, thats my pc on a disc!! i think its too small and advancement to halt the move to hd formats. i can't see many existing dvd players working with this new profile either.

[Hydrollex]

I think it takes like 200 years to lose all 60 billion. ugh!

so
DVD 200
Xbox 36000

[M0KILLaU]

What MS wants is a download universe, they [MS] see this as another way to attack bluray. It is software that drives there ideology, and in order for MS to reach there goal, Bluray has to fail. HD DVD helped, but this will further confuse the market. and this eventually will lead to a place where a hard copy might not be the best option, and That will lead to unimaginable profits for MS. Or maybe i'm wrong.

[BIGELLOW]

Even Microsoft has admitted (well, Steve Ballmer, at least) that physical media will still be around for about 5 years or more before digital downloads can really take hold for good. So, digital downloads aren't going to "de-throne" Blu-ray any more than the next President is de-throning Bush. Bush has served 8 years, which is the maximum. Vinyl was replaced with CDs. DVDs are being replaced with Blu-rays. Eventually, everyone knows Blu-rays will be replaced by something else. The next natural step will be digital downloads, but Blu-rays will be around just as long as they anticipated lasting.

What METHOD of digital download will be the mystery, and Microsoft is hoping to corner that market. Just trying years in advance won't guarantee anything. Five years or more from now, a new service will come along with a catchy name and everyone will flock to it once they feel that Blu-ray has finally lived long enough. All other download services and devices will wonder what the big deal about this new brand is, and they'll all lose out to the marketing. It's just how it happens every time. The service/device will have some clever name like TiVo or UnBox or iPod and nobody will say "digital" or "download" anymore. They'll just be talking about this clever new brand name. Just like how everyone who sees an MP3 player these days and call them iPods.

"Hey, you have an iPod? I haven't seen that one before. Oh, it's a what? Zune? Who makes it? Microsoft? Does it play music? Oh yeah? I didn't know Microsoft made iPods, too. {slap}"

"Hey, you have a TiVo? I haven't seen that one before. Oh, it's a what? A DVR? Is that new? It's made by Comcast? Does it let you pause live TV? Ah, cool... I didn't know Comcast bought TiVo. {slap}"

It happens over and over and over again. It's all marketing. People are flocking to Blu-ray and will be too busy to notice what else is out there. Niche groups will exclusively download videos and watch them... the masses will collect Blu-rays. Then, in 5-10 years, the masses will finally see what the minority have been doing with digital downloads, but some company will come out with a marketing ploy that makes it look like something new... the wave of the future, revisited. And suddenly the masses will be buying another overpriced product which does the very same thing that other downloaders have been doing, but it will be more expensive and will have a clever name.

The whole cycle will repeat itself yet again another 5-10 years after that... and another 5-10 years after that... etc... etc... etc...

[BIGELLOW]

What none of these companies seem to get is that it's all about marketing, not about technology. They lost and they will continue to lose trying to implement technological solutions. It was all about marketing and when they pitted their marketing against Sony's marketing, they lost. What makes them think they can just create another name and try again?

Look, you can paint a turd pink and call it "the future" and as long as you have convinced people of this, they'll buy the pink turds up like crazy. If someone else comes along with a different colored turd, it's too late. They're going to ignore you. Even if you show up with a Baby Ruth candy bar, they'll still ignore you. They want their "future-proof pink turds."

Think about it. MP3 players were around for a long time before the iPod came around. Only those "in the know" bought MP3 players. Every company in the world was leaping over each other trying to make the next new MP3 player that could cook your breakfast and was cheaper than the other guy's. Then came along Apple. They made a very basic MP3 player that wasn't top-of-the-line (for its time)... didn't have a whole lot of features... didn't have a lot of storage... but they are marketing geniuses. Before long, the whole world knew about iPods. If you ask an iPod if they own an MP3 player, they'll probably just stare at you blankly. Tell the owner of an MP3 player, "hey, I didn't know Samsung made iPods too!" and they'll likely punch you in your throat.

The fact of the matter is, Apple came along and slaughtered everyone with genius marketing techniques. They didn't need to make a superior product, they just needed to convince everyone it was "the next new thing" that you wouldn't want to live without. Suddenly, MP3 players didn't exist anymore... only iPods. Now, if anyone comes along and creates another MP3 player, and it even remotely catches on (Zune,) people call it an iPod clone. See how that works?

So, now that Blu-ray has won the HD Pink Turd Wars... it's over. If anything comes along, people are going to be convinced that it's another "me too" that came "too late" and they won't give it a second thought. The masses are buying Blu-rays now, whether they are technically superior or not. Blu-ray is to Hi-Def as iPod was to MP3. The marketing has worked and anyone who tries to deny it will just be wasting their money and time (Toshiba/MS.)

People aren't buying Hi-Def televisions because they need them. Heck, most people who buy a 42" HD television are mounting the TV so far away from their couch/chair that they could hold an iPod 15 inches from their face and get the same experience. People don't buy things they need, they buy things they want. People don't want things that are superior, they want things they are told are superior. People are now officially convinces that Blu-ray is superior, so it doesn't matter how many multi-colored turds come along. They'll be lucky if they can at least squeeze in a little bit of Zune-like popularity before people forget what they're called. "DVD 2.0? Is that like a Blu-ray? Hey, I didn't know Toshiba made an iPod!"

[SUP3R]

LOL
Excellent post.
Bubbles for u.
I know oh too well the whole "all mp3 players are iPods" feeling.
I bought a generic mp3 player last year and was cool with it until I noticed the way everyone looked at me when I had it in my hand. I felt like I had no choice but to buy an ipod just to be modern lol. It paid off though, I really like it a lot. Now I look at people who have generic mp3 players and be like what the hell...why don't you have an ipod lol.

[BrianC6234]

This is bo-ring. Can you say Blu-ray? I thought so. Now everyone, lets move on. Nothing to see here.

[longduckdong]

None of the movie studios want it, and that's part of the reason they all went Blu-Ray.

[Pain]

Problem i have with this dvd2 ,is Most if Not all is MS tradmarked things so that = MS ROYALTIES.

[Bleucrunch]

just more billions that toshiba, M$ and now Panasonic will lose that's great that will get rid of the competition at lot quicker.

[Lucreto]

They just formed the group but that doesn't mean they will get anywhere.

[tweaker]

This is basically more interactivity on DVD.

High Definition and High Capacity Storage is the future. To say or to prove others otherwise is pretty retarded.

[7h3ultim8p00]

My god MS. Don't you have enough money?

[dabizo]

Basically instead of everthing on one disc you say..put a film on one disc and any extras on another...mmmmmmm already been done LMAO