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PS4 architect knew in 2007 that "clearly we had some issues with PS3"

PS4 lead architect Mark Cerny knew as far back as 2007 that "clearly we had some issues with PlayStation 3".

The system was complicated compared to PC and Xbox 360, and the result was PS3 often coming off worse during multi-platform game development.

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DragonKnight1216d ago OffTopicShowReplies(3)
lovegames7181216d ago

End result overall the best looking exclusives with great gameplay. That cell churned out some beautiful games with the help of the best devs. this gen such as ND, SM and GG.

DiRtY1216d ago

End result was a 5 billion USD loss - just with the PS3.

No cell, but a powerful and more common CPU would have saved millions of USD R&D and production costs.

GrandTheftZamboni1216d ago

Millions in savings is nothing if you have billions in loss.

BTW, Cell R&D cost ~$500 million.

Saigon1216d ago

@Dirty,

That loss has nothing to do with Sony's gaming division. If the gaming division lost that amount of money, the PS4 wouldn't exist. Sony's gaming division is making a profit. Plus gather your facts together to know why Sony lost 5 billion as a whole company. You will be surprised at what you find.

I see that most people are not educated to what to look for when scoping a company. It amazes me that when MS talks profit, everyone looks in awe and no one digs into the overall numbers. Most if not all of MS profits come from where, Windows, the number one used operating system in the world. MS just recently, meaning the last few years, turned profit with the Xbox division, Congrats.

Sony as a company not only make the PlayStation console they also make TVs, Computers, Various personal electronics, Servers, etc, but did you also know they own and have ties to banks. Yes, Sony is also a holding company and a fiance Company as well. Most of their losses come from these division, which is expected with most banks, as well as their electronics department. Sony electronics are not selling like they use to in the past, Samsung anyone. At one point Sony even tried to leverage or hide these losses by combining the PlayStation division and the Electronics division and it didn't work.

My point is that people need to understand everything before they they go running at the mouth. Its not always as clear as one would think.

DiRtY1215d ago

@Saigon

I am sorry, but you are wrong with every single point you make. I know a rational argument is pretty much wasted on N4G, but I will give it a shot anyway:

"That loss has nothing to do with Sony's gaming division."

Well the gaming division lost almost 5 billion back in 2011 and that only covers the losses after the PS3 launched. So R&D is not even included.

Read it here:

http://www.vg247.com/2009/1...

And that was before the Vita released. The PS2 and PSP were profitable back then, so the actual losses for the PS3 are even higher than 4.7 billion USD (4.7 billion + R&D + PSP profits + PS2 profits).

Mid 2008 the losses from the PS3 already surpassed all the profits the PS2 ever made.

Read it here:
http://www.joystiq.com/2008...

"Sony's gaming division is making a profit."

That is one of the urban myths on N4G. It is wrong though. It makes a tiny profit in one Quarter (Q4 holiday season), but it loses money for the other 3 Quarters.

Read it here: http://www.gameinformer.com...

"Most if not all of MS profits come from where, Windows, the number one used operating system in the world."

That is another myth on N4G and it is wrong as well. Sure Windows is a highly profitable business, but MS is MUCH more than that.

Microsoft posted a revenue of 21.456 Billion USD for the 3 months ended December 31st. 5.8 billion USD are from Windows, 5.1 billion are from Server and Tools (MS SQL, Sharepoint, Exchange Server etc.), 5.6 billion are from the business division (MS Office), 3.7 billion are from the EDD (Xbox) and 900 Million from the Online division (Bing).

And that was during the Quarter when Windows 8 released. So MS has 2 other divisions as big as the Windows division when it comes to revenue.

You can read it here: http://www.microsoft.com/in...

"Yes, Sony is also a holding company and a fiance Company as well. Most of their losses come from these division, which is expected with most banks"

This one can't be more wrong. Sonys most profitable division right now is the financial service division. The operating income for the financial services were 131.4 billion Yen for the past year. That is MORE than all other profitable divisions combined. Sony does a very good job selling life insurances!

you can read it here:
http://www.sony.net/SonyInf...

"My point is that people need to understand everything before they they go running at the mouth. Its not always as clear as one would think."

That is the only point I agree with you 100%. You should really do this.

*** I know I will get disagrees like hell for that, but it is still correct. I am into investment for 10 years now and I know how to read financial reports. All sources are without any spin and mostly straight from the respective companies. ***

SilentNegotiator1215d ago

You're both right. It was nice seeing what dedicated developers could do with the cell, but it wasn't the right way to go. The new Playstation will be all about developers.

Saigon1215d ago

@Dirty,

Damn Dirty, I think you really out did yourself. Posting content from 2008 is real pleasant especially since the content from MS is most recent 2013. This again, proves my point from my initial post.

Again, looking at the data you would see that Sony combined several divisions into one which accounted for most of the losses calculated in your 5 billion. Such as the Vaio division being applied and at another point the TV division was applied. I can't find, Sony's official reports, but when I do I will calculate their total losses but from what I found on the internet i was able to calculate 3.5 billion in losses for the PS brand up to 2008, since the launch of the PS3.

Now if you read the reports the losses indicated are internal not external. Most likely that has to do with R&D, Game budget, impact of new systems, etc. Your conclusion is that you based the losses on the cell be, which has no impact to why they are loosing money in this division. And the other part that you should have pointed out in your initial comment was that the losses were over time not at once.

GrandTheftZamboni1215d ago

@DiRtY

If you already don't work for Microsoft's marketing agency, you definitely should.

RememberThe3571215d ago

@Dirty: Sony's game division has been profitable for a while (off and on), even if only by small margins.

Check it out yourself: http://www.sony.net/SonyInf...

And for a while Sony wasn't even reporting how the games division was doing because they just wrapped it into Products & Services.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1215d ago
HarryMasonHerpderp1216d ago (Edited 1216d ago )

The PS3's architect was its greatest strength and its greatest weakness. It was a catch 22 situation. On one hand it produced some of the best looking console games this gen, on the other hand some of the multiplats suffered due to inexperienced developers (or just plain lazyness). It seems the PS4 will be tackling this problem head on and will be all the more better for it.

kwyjibo1216d ago

I wouldn't describe it as laziness, you hear that from N4G all the time.

If the PS3 had picked up the same kind of market share the PS2 did, it'd be a different story. Sony did not deliver enough to justify the investment from developers.

ziggurcat1216d ago

no, it really is laziness.

Bordel_19001216d ago (Edited 1216d ago )

I don't think it's lazy or inexperienced developers like you say, it's more a matter of why should a multiplat-developer put more money as in time and resources into developing PS3 games than they would do on the X360 version. It's not more complicated than that, yes, developers were inexperience on the complex somewhat self-defeating architecture of the PS3.

Even today some multiplats struggle to match the X360 version, I believe that if you put down enough time resources effort and money, you can create games on the PS3 that surpass X360 games, but at what cost, most developers will not invest this kind of money into a PS3 game.

PS4 is like a gaming PC with a gaming-OS, so it should be a lot easier to develop for.

GrandTheftZamboni1216d ago

A good carpenter can make a masterpiece with basic carpentry tools. A guy who doesn't know what he's doing can have all the modern tools and still make mediocre piece.

joeorc1216d ago

"It's not more complicated than that, yes, developers were inexperience on the complex somewhat self-defeating architecture of the PS3. "

the PS3 system was a sound system design, its the tool's for the APi's was A) not as mature, and B) the Experience with such hardware took time, alot more than 3rd party developer's could really spare.

The problem was none of the 3rd party Game engines were designed for the PS3 Hardware, because A) they never had MATURE TOOL CHAINS MADE FOR THE ps3'S SYSTEM DESIGN TO WORK WITH!

"self-defeating architecture of the PS3"

Please Explain how the PS3's system design was Quote "SELF-DEFEATING" ?

YOU STATE THIS:

"I believe that if you put down enough time resources effort and money, you can create games on the PS3 that surpass X360 games, but at what cost, most developers will not invest this kind of money into a PS3 game. "

which goes back to the point, its not the Hardware it's the development resources, and the Game Engines that the 3RD party invested into!

You can always learn the hardware, so that's not the problem.

This stigma about the PS3 design being bad for game's is more like

"Bad for 3RD PARTY GAME ENGINES THAT WE ALREADY INVESTED INTO WITH OUR RESOURCES, THAT ARE MADE FOR ANOTHER SYSTEM DESIGN Entirely!"

the PS3's design was and is still good for game design. as long as your willing to learn and spend resources to build for such a platform.

which is the same for Every platform anyway.

Bordel_19001215d ago (Edited 1215d ago )

@joeorc

As I said "somewhat self-defeating", I'm not saying the system design was not sound. I mean that because of it's complexity and the lack of experience on this kind of architecture it held back the PS3 in some ways. It could/should have been one of it's strengths but turned out to be something that held it back instead. This seems to have been addressed with the PS4, where developers should feel at home much faster. Then they can focus time and resources on creating good content rather than struggling with the architecture.

HarryMasonHerpderp1216d ago (Edited 1216d ago )

@kwyjibo
@Bordel_1900

Yeah I get what you both mean and some of it was due to money and I agree with that but I honestly think some of it was due to inexperience and lazyness.
I stress that I don't mean ALL developers because most of them did a pretty good job at the multiplats but some of them you can tell they just didn't put any effort in and I don't understand why some developers said they didn't have a problem and some of them had a very hard time.
Whatever the reasons I think Sony realised the problems and seem to be stamping them out with the PS4.

OrionNoctis1216d ago

It wasnt a system that took 3rd party developers into account , it wasnt bad but it wasnt wise either , now with developers happy Sony will deliver the same high quality exclusives and the 3rd parties wont have to put a extra effort and money to develop for the ps4, they made it right and since Sony systems tend to be my 1st option the future looks bright!

Bordel_19001216d ago

The PS3 was an optimistic experiment. Luckily it didn't sink Sony. Sony had som good victories with it and the PS3 turned out ok. They've learnt their lesson.

FanboySeeker1216d ago

It didn't sink Sony... but made them lose market share and visibility....
Specially when we look to the legacy and dominance of the past...

Bordel_19001216d ago (Edited 1216d ago )

True, but they had an important victory with Blu-ray, and they still did good with the PS3 and are in a seemingly good position with how the the PS4 is shaping up.

AngelicIceDiamond1216d ago (Edited 1216d ago )

"They learn't their lesson"

I'm not bashing you personally for the statement at all. But I love the generalization of the statement like how this only applies to Sony. When Xbox messes up its troll galore. Only Sony gets a free pass I guess. Again, not bashing you, but just how others use that statement like it only applies to Sony.

Sony may very well learned there lesson and signs have been shown that they really have. But have some thought that maybe MS has learn some lesson's next gen as well?

I mean realistically.

GrandTheftZamboni1216d ago

"Sony gets a free pass"

Dude, are you for real?

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