New leaks have lead to another round of rampant speculation about whether or not Microsoft will indeed end up restricting or outright eliminating used games on their console. The new evidence suggests that the “Durango,” as it’s currently called, will require an installation of a game to the hard disk and won’t even have optical drive support. Also worrying is an “always connected” descriptor that some are interpreting as evidence for some sort of always on DRM. With Microsoft giving everyone a firm “no comment,” we’re left to speculate that this could be the first console to actually do away with used games, as Sony has stated the PS4 will continue to play them.-Forbes
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What does worry me is if that they do go down, and Sony completely dominates like it did back in PS2 days, we'll have less of a competition. We NEED all big three companies pushing each other for competition. Today's economy is not what we had back in 2002. It's completely different so we need competition more than ever.
What also worries me more is PIRACY. I can't believe that at least I haven't read a single article that debates over this topic. If PS4 and 720 are based on PC architecture, you can bet your horses that they WILL be hacked. Look at PS3 and then look at 360. Sony PS3 was much more "closed" than 360 and thus, it hasn't been hacked as much as 360. Developing nations love this as they can't always afford to buy new games let alone used one so they end up pirating games. So IMHO, piracy could play a major role come next-gen. It'd mean more console sales but what good are console sales if there are no software profits? I do believe however that every pirate ends up buying legitimate copy but it takes them a lot of time to reach that point.
Sony is bleeding money left and right and Windows 8 along with Surface sales are well below expectations. Wii U sales are below par as well.
Like I said, today's economy and tech world is completely different than 10 years ago. We need all these companies making profit so there is a healthy competition. Consumers only benefit from a healthy competition.
I hope they fail hard.
It's 100% OK if anyone disagrees with me but I'd like to know why? Really, I'd love to know your views on this too. Would love to have a nice and productive discussion.
They were never a costumer friendly company they try to get in every industry a f@ck it up- excuse my language with their greed, i cant see how people fallow this company like a said i have no problem with Xbox its Microsoft i dont like
how's that "makes sense profit wise" ...when it's "very anti consumer" ?!
isn't that mean no one will buy their console which mean no profit for them ?!
The reason people are disagreeing with you as far as i can see is for comments like "the market is very different from 10 years ago.... we need them to make profit.." Yes you are right its a different market, Its 10 times the size and companies now make more money now than they ever have in the history of gaming! Even with piracy and used games this is still the case!! You are maybe thinking about the way publishers screw developers??!
And also microsoft wont "go down" as you put it.. thats extremely unlikely - Always online would be unpopular with some but it would surely circumvent hacked systems quite easily.. even if microsoft did go down through some crazy sequence of events the market is so big now that another company will just step up to take a piece of the pie in their place.
And still they managed to sell 70+millions consoles.
That means that the majority doesn't care about dlc, online fee or online/season passes.
M$ is smart when it comes to making money, and there is no reason to change the formula.
The issue is XBLG set a standard that could not be matched for several years and now it is and for free. With more and more gamers/consumers opting for PSN for it's free nature or even PSN + for all the free titles the playing field had been leveled.
That was all in the past with PS3 being the lead console for media streaming it showed that gamers do not prefer to pay a fee just to gain access to pay another fee to access their streaming services. If PS4 continues this business model with all the new features the landscape of fees versus services will be in Sony's favor.
Now add in the social connections that PS4 adds and unless XBLG becomes free MS's business model will be in a very bad situation.
Couple that with rumor that MS's intentions is to get you to cancel your cable services and opt for XBLG as an alternative raises a ton of other questions...like what will be the major incentive to make you switch...smaller fees, yearly price...some sort of contract. These are things we don't know but have already pushed a large portion of core gamers away from the idea of signing up for the next XBOX.
I think Ms will come with far far better service then PS+, and will offer more bang for your buck.
They will pack more features and inovation in next box, and that's not a tuff challange when you see what ps4 has to offer.
A nonfunctional touch pad... meh, share button is a joke at best, and streaming games, well we all know how good that works.
Ms is more into software then Sony, just look at xbox os vs ps3 os.
And never ever forget the reason why Ms entered the console buisness in the first place. ;-)
NO company cares about consumers deep down... Its all about who can give off the appearance that they arent trying to screw you while they.. erm... screw you. And thats fine.. IF we get perceived value for money and great products.
I have never had a better online gaming experience than I do now with XBL. I have a PS3 and NEVER play online games on it. Just isn't as community friendly.
Maybe the PS4 will change this. I'm completely open to Sony's console. But for now I stay primarily MS because I am overly satisfied with their products and service.
Thank you for reading!
On topic: Agreed.
A dick move like this would block a percentage of people from ever buying their console (and games) in the first place, people who would/could only afford used games, and people like me who buy lots of NEW games and can recoup costs a little. Those used buyers are doing no harm, as they would just not buy at all if no used games - and people like me will buy far less games if I can't sell them on when done! I hate the idea of 100s of plastic discs gathering dust in a room not being able to be 'recycled' for fear of the 1000s of pounds invested in them!
I can't wait until MS fuck up AGAIN with yet another ill thought out scheme (like Windows 8, and Surface RT) and realise what I could have told them even without being an expert in the industry.
Bloody idiots. They'll learn eventually. The only way to keep sales high while blocking used is to HALVE THE PRICE of new games! They can't have their cake and eat it! THere will be NO piracy (we can assume for many years) on the new consoles, blocked used games too, so HOW do you now justify your stupid high $60 prices for games? THey always blamed piracy and used games but if they can't anymore then they had better lower the price.
Rule: Customer can buy used games only as many new games he bought in that particular store.
This way the market would be extremely easy to navigate and analyze, while encouraging the customers to buy new games. They could even sell unlimited amount of used-games on that particular shop to buy new games. That would increase competition between retailers and that's a good thing for the customer.
It would keep the market super fluid and everybody wins.
It would also mean that the consumer would be forced to register with a particular store in some way...such as the Best Buy RZ card, or Power Up rewards card from GameStop. Now that may not be that big a deal to many, but some people are very weary of signing up for this kind of stuff, because that information can be sold, and it's used as a way to track customer buying habits. That percentage is small of course, but it's still anti-consumer to have to force someone to use such a service to get that benefit.
It also gives little incentive for a store to advertise it's used deals(such as GameStop b2g1 free promotions). It also means stores that track their customers buying habits for how many used vs. new games are brought can statistically sit down and see how little they have to discount titles to get them to sell.
And it doesn't make the market fluid...it makes it more complex. Retailers, despite how silly they seem, do not want to make things complex. They really have no interest in cutting out the used game market. If it is done, it will be on the part of the console manufacturers and publishers. They may be willing to work with publishers on a compromise, but publishers can't really regulate the retail market to that degree. Doing so is pretty much price fixing...and I'm sure there is a proper legal term for this exact scenario.
I know you probably made that up off the top of your head and didn't mean it as the way it had to be done, I just thought I'd point it out.
@jakens below
That is probably how it would be done. It's just an extension of the online pass. Sony's patent from last year was speculated to be for just such a thing(if not for complete removal of used games). There are downsides of course. What it comes down to is that the consumer right now just isn't ready to let go of the used market. Retail also isn't at a place where it can survive without it. Those issues have to be resolved before any real headway is made in limiting the resale of games. It's a clear scenario where the consumer has most of the power, and it is up to us to keep it by not accepting anti-consumer practices.
Sure hope internet is not required to play my games.
No one that I have talked to wants to pay twice for something they own. No one that I have talked to like paying for a service that could be down at any time and for any reason. No one likes being screwed out of their freedom to enjoy something less than you did during a past generation.
If this current generation has not been good to you, the next one will also not be so good to you.
I've maybe bought 2 used games in the last decade, and I know for sure that if they blocked used games beyond, say, a 2 year window after release of the game, I won't be buying the next Xbox.
Just my opinion however.
I don't see Microsoft allowing people to rent games via Gamefly for only Sony and Nintendo consoles, same with walking into a Gamestop, they aren't going to allow the Microsoft brand not to be evident.
I'm excited to finally hear some real news on their next console, not conjecture and rumors.
MS (or Sony) blocking used games and cutting Gamefly out would be the ultimate deal breaker and I would be strictly WiiU.
It doesn't matter if you make more money with software if no one buys the next xbox because they can't trade their games back or rent them.
After 2008 wconomy tanked. Many people struggle...and they still want to escape. Even more than richly rich with his 3 different consoles and 80" flat screen.
My point? I trade every game I'm finished with...often quickly for max return. It's always towards new games or seldom new hardware.
And I work and make good money. But I'm not naive to think every gamer by virtue of owning a console is capable of helping to sustain a market with no used games.
This also brings me to think that unless Xbox 720 or Ps4 are priced $399 or lower....sales won't be what they are likely looking for.
That being said isn't that the reason new games come with a online pass? And if you buy the game used you still have to pay around a extra 10 bucks via PSN or XBL to be able to play online. Then also factor in any DLC that they may purchase for the game. So while they may not make as much profit they are still making something back. Then you also have to ask yourself does that person buy every game used?
Again I personally don't care if a system does or doesn't play used games because I buy all my games new to support the publishers & developers who create & bring me my favorite form of entertainment.
I do think that MS will do more harm to themselves than good if they do block used games. They have spent years trying to build up their market share only to give it back? And the only reason the console was selling for a loss was because of the RROD disaster that cost them millions not because of the manufacturing costs. Sony was the only one actually paying more in manufacturing then they were selling it for.
Binary domain
Spec ops the line
Lollipop chainsaw
Persona 4
Xcom
Army of two cartel (Tuesday)
Etc
Is buy 3-5 games all year instead of the 40+!
Exactly. As soon as mommy & daddy find out that they won't be able to buy the kids cheap used games come Christmas, do you think she will want that kind of system in their house?
And in an unrelated note, IT'S TIME TO D.D..D..DUEL!!!
1) always on - completely misinterpreted. not mandatory.
2) no optical drive - complete bullshit and you know it.
3) we don't know if they will block used games or not, there's no evidence of it either way. Wait for official word before jumping to conclusions.
No he said no optical SUPPORT. Because the concensious now is that games will Have to be installed. Meaning they won't be playable off the disc. The Disc drive is only used for installs and Movies.
Yes, it's still unconfirmed and could still be rumor at this point, but the evidence is pretty stong and has come from several sources in the past few weeks. So get pissy all you want, it doesn't change the fact that many of these points are pointing to 'Highly Likely'.
You know what one of the complaints developers had this gen with xbox? That they had to build their game in a special way because the game may or may not be installed on the hard drive.
So MS allegedly fixes this by requiring install and everyone claims oh noes we're going to lose used games.
Just like how MS is adding features so that your system works online while it's 'off' to make your experience better, but everyone claims OMG ALWAYS need internet connection.
N4G user base sucks.
Nobody buy a product that goes against the liberty, can you imagine for example buy a car that you can't sell to buy another better or rent or lend to your family or friends?
Microsoft is preparing something big with "Xbox infinity", all rumors are false, maybe they will announce a great device with Skipe, "Illumiroom", the permanent internet conection will be optional and they will not block second hand games because nobody will buy their device and stores like Gamestop will block their products.
The solution against the second hand games and piracy is like Sony is doing in PS3, a great free online service, great digital discounts ( I bought Assasins Creed 2 Digital for 9.99¡) and an amazing premium service like PSN PLUS.
The console wars tend to take the consumer out of the equation, and instead focus on what is best for the companies involved. It creates a false sense of value for the consumers of a particular brand, but does little to actually make them a winner...just look how readily on-line passes were accepted.
I never understood it, because quite frankly, I would wager that 99.99% of the people that post these comments are consumers. Fight the power and all that I guess.
Edit @ Blow below
To be fair there were those who said it would be a good thing for Sony as well. You can't really take one post out of the multitudes and say that it's indicative of the common consensus. It's just one article showing a different perspective, and this particular article was just one person who clearly doesn't understand how business and the game industry actually work.
For me personally it seems like the idea is almost universally hated among gamers on here. Other forums tend to have the same feelings about it.
I am not a huge fan of the xbox but thats my personal choice. I like Sony honestly because it gives me a bit more, Bluray, First party exclusives, my 50.00's per year gives me free games n such.
I just wish MS would announce the console and get these stupid rumors over with.
2.Some people (me) will be less likely to pay full price for a new game if they can never resell it.
That's why I never get a digital download I always buy the disk. Digital download is worthless after I play it.