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Submitted by Gimmemorebubblez 1052d ago | opinion piece

Would Microsoft Spring a Trap Card on Sony by Blocking Used Game Sales?

New leaks have lead to another round of rampant speculation about whether or not Microsoft will indeed end up restricting or outright eliminating used games on their console. The new evidence suggests that the “Durango,” as it’s currently called, will require an installation of a game to the hard disk and won’t even have optical drive support. Also worrying is an “always connected” descriptor that some are interpreting as evidence for some sort of always on DRM. With Microsoft giving everyone a firm “no comment,” we’re left to speculate that this could be the first console to actually do away with used games, as Sony has stated the PS4 will continue to play them.-Forbes (Industry, Next-Gen, PS4)

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Gimmemorebubblez   1052d ago | Spam
NYC_Gamer  +   1052d ago
That tactic makes sense profit wise but its very anti consumer
TopDudeMan  +   1052d ago
Agreed. They certainly wouldn't win any fans over with a move like that.
zeee  +   1051d ago
No, I believe SONY is on the right track. The article assumes a lot of things that they should not. M$ will have to deal with a huge mess if they block out the used games and in this game, it seems that they are going that route.

What does worry me is if that they do go down, and Sony completely dominates like it did back in PS2 days, we'll have less of a competition. We NEED all big three companies pushing each other for competition. Today's economy is not what we had back in 2002. It's completely different so we need competition more than ever.

What also worries me more is PIRACY. I can't believe that at least I haven't read a single article that debates over this topic. If PS4 and 720 are based on PC architecture, you can bet your horses that they WILL be hacked. Look at PS3 and then look at 360. Sony PS3 was much more "closed" than 360 and thus, it hasn't been hacked as much as 360. Developing nations love this as they can't always afford to buy new games let alone used one so they end up pirating games. So IMHO, piracy could play a major role come next-gen. It'd mean more console sales but what good are console sales if there are no software profits? I do believe however that every pirate ends up buying legitimate copy but it takes them a lot of time to reach that point.

Sony is bleeding money left and right and Windows 8 along with Surface sales are well below expectations. Wii U sales are below par as well.

Like I said, today's economy and tech world is completely different than 10 years ago. We need all these companies making profit so there is a healthy competition. Consumers only benefit from a healthy competition.
#2.1.1 (Edited 1051d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(9) | Report
ThanatosDMC  +   1051d ago
I hope you know what MS wants to do with Win 8 to mess up PC gaming. They basically want to smear their crap on all future games that will use Windows. Devs have to pay them for licensing. They're trying to be make an Apple Store without the competition. Win 8 wants to take Steam, Origin, and all those other online distributors place so they can rake in the money.

I hope they fail hard.
#2.1.2 (Edited 1051d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(2) | Report
zeee  +   1051d ago
To all the people who are disagreeing:

It's 100% OK if anyone disagrees with me but I'd like to know why? Really, I'd love to know your views on this too. Would love to have a nice and productive discussion.
nosferatuzodd  +   1051d ago
this is what I've bin telling people about Microsoft.
They were never a costumer friendly company they try to get in every industry a f@ck it up- excuse my language with their greed, i cant see how people fallow this company like a said i have no problem with Xbox its Microsoft i dont like
#2.1.4 (Edited 1051d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report
Ezz2013  +   1052d ago
just one thing i want to know ...
how's that "makes sense profit wise" ...when it's "very anti consumer" ?!

isn't that mean no one will buy their console which mean no profit for them ?!
#2.2 (Edited 1052d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(13) | Report | Reply
monkeyfox  +   1051d ago

The reason people are disagreeing with you as far as i can see is for comments like "the market is very different from 10 years ago.... we need them to make profit.." Yes you are right its a different market, Its 10 times the size and companies now make more money now than they ever have in the history of gaming! Even with piracy and used games this is still the case!! You are maybe thinking about the way publishers screw developers??!

And also microsoft wont "go down" as you put it.. thats extremely unlikely - Always online would be unpopular with some but it would surely circumvent hacked systems quite easily.. even if microsoft did go down through some crazy sequence of events the market is so big now that another company will just step up to take a piece of the pie in their place.
delboy  +   1052d ago
M$ doesn't care about consumers, see live subscription.
And still they managed to sell 70+millions consoles.
That means that the majority doesn't care about dlc, online fee or online/season passes.
M$ is smart when it comes to making money, and there is no reason to change the formula.
HiddenMission  +   1052d ago

The issue is XBLG set a standard that could not be matched for several years and now it is and for free. With more and more gamers/consumers opting for PSN for it's free nature or even PSN + for all the free titles the playing field had been leveled.

That was all in the past with PS3 being the lead console for media streaming it showed that gamers do not prefer to pay a fee just to gain access to pay another fee to access their streaming services. If PS4 continues this business model with all the new features the landscape of fees versus services will be in Sony's favor.

Now add in the social connections that PS4 adds and unless XBLG becomes free MS's business model will be in a very bad situation.

Couple that with rumor that MS's intentions is to get you to cancel your cable services and opt for XBLG as an alternative raises a ton of other what will be the major incentive to make you switch...smaller fees, yearly price...some sort of contract. These are things we don't know but have already pushed a large portion of core gamers away from the idea of signing up for the next XBOX.
StrawHatPatriot  +   1052d ago
XBL used to be worth it ENTIRELY, but now, considering that many other boxes - PS3, Roku, Apple TV, Wii U, etc. all do the SAME THING for FREE, it's not worth it anymore.
delboy  +   1052d ago
You're delusional if you think Ms can't match Sony's PS+ offer.
I think Ms will come with far far better service then PS+, and will offer more bang for your buck.
They will pack more features and inovation in next box, and that's not a tuff challange when you see what ps4 has to offer.
A nonfunctional touch pad... meh, share button is a joke at best, and streaming games, well we all know how good that works.
Ms is more into software then Sony, just look at xbox os vs ps3 os.
And never ever forget the reason why Ms entered the console buisness in the first place. ;-)
CEOSteveBallmer  +   1051d ago
Delboy, He is not saying that xbox services features are useless or PS+ is better. he is pointing out that why would you pay a fee and then you cn go online then when you want netflix youll pay it again?? unlike in PSN you just need to pay the netflix app and not go through online fee like microsoft does. It seems you are bashing the ps4? share button a joke? nonfunctional pad?? social features should be shared? and nonfunctional?? they have not yet even said the functions and your assuming its useless its just for design?? Go ahead defend microsoft and xbox, always on drm and banned used games are one of the best features.... I dont know if your just a troll or looking for a fan fight
monkeyfox  +   1051d ago
NO company cares about consumers deep down... Its all about who can give off the appearance that they arent trying to screw you while they.. erm... screw you. And thats fine.. IF we get perceived value for money and great products.
#2.3.5 (Edited 1051d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report
negative  +   1051d ago
I'm an XBL Gold subscriber for 10 years now and I will continue to pay for a top of the line service.

I have never had a better online gaming experience than I do now with XBL. I have a PS3 and NEVER play online games on it. Just isn't as community friendly.

Maybe the PS4 will change this. I'm completely open to Sony's console. But for now I stay primarily MS because I am overly satisfied with their products and service.

Thank you for reading!
Mike134nl  +   1052d ago
besides the speculation, in some way it makes sense profit wise. However assuming that gamers who play used games do not result in a direct or indirect (net)profit for the platform-holder seems far fetched.
Drekken  +   1052d ago
Everything MS does is very anti-consumer. I am not just talking about gaming consoles here.
ThanatosDMC  +   1051d ago
Pennywise, is that you?

On topic: Agreed.
ArronC07  +   1052d ago
If you read the article you'd see that actually it makes no sense profit wise whilst being at the same time very anti-consumer.
wastedcells  +   1051d ago
Microsoft will always do what's best for the bottom line. Just like live subscriptions.
blind-reaper  +   1051d ago
If you fuck the consumer you will not see many profits, so it doesn't make sense profit wise.
jerethdagryphon  +   1052d ago
It would only work if people bought the 720 I for one wouldn't I share games between my ps3 here and my ps3 stateside when im on holiday. If people knew out of the box no used games. That means no trade ins either so you finish a game your stuck with it. They wouldn't buy it except after price drops for the exclusive s sony would sell more consoles and more titles at full price
EbeneezerGoode  +   1052d ago
Exactly, they also think blocking used games would only block people who BUY used games. Have said this before - i NEVER buy used games but i sell games I've bought new when i've finished with them! I BUY them for those stupid high prices purely because I have that safety net of selling it on if I think it's crap or selling it on when fully done - getting maybe half my money back? and buying MORE *NEW* games with the money!! IT keeps the market fluid

A dick move like this would block a percentage of people from ever buying their console (and games) in the first place, people who would/could only afford used games, and people like me who buy lots of NEW games and can recoup costs a little. Those used buyers are doing no harm, as they would just not buy at all if no used games - and people like me will buy far less games if I can't sell them on when done! I hate the idea of 100s of plastic discs gathering dust in a room not being able to be 'recycled' for fear of the 1000s of pounds invested in them!

I can't wait until MS fuck up AGAIN with yet another ill thought out scheme (like Windows 8, and Surface RT) and realise what I could have told them even without being an expert in the industry.

Bloody idiots. They'll learn eventually. The only way to keep sales high while blocking used is to HALVE THE PRICE of new games! They can't have their cake and eat it! THere will be NO piracy (we can assume for many years) on the new consoles, blocked used games too, so HOW do you now justify your stupid high $60 prices for games? THey always blamed piracy and used games but if they can't anymore then they had better lower the price.
#3.1 (Edited 1052d ago ) | Agree(19) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
madpuppy  +   1052d ago
lowering the price of games will never happen, it's like when the music industry stated way back that with the advent of cd's production costs would drop drastically, because cd's only cost pennies to press, the retail price of cd's would be half of any other format before them, and that never happened. cd's were as much, if not more than records and tapes.
EbeneezerGoode  +   1052d ago
Didn't say it 'would happen', am all too aware it won't. Instead there'll be a crash when people can no longer justify paying so much for games they can't recoup some cash back from.
stuntman_mike  +   1052d ago
How about a percentage of used sales goes to the developer, maybe they could make a law for it or something then at least the developers would see some money back off used games. then again doing that they would probably raise the price of used games?
Alcohog  +   1052d ago
Good point. Could you even rent games??
Tapani  +   1052d ago
How about guidelines to regulate the used-games market without being anti-customer:

Rule: Customer can buy used games only as many new games he bought in that particular store.

This way the market would be extremely easy to navigate and analyze, while encouraging the customers to buy new games. They could even sell unlimited amount of used-games on that particular shop to buy new games. That would increase competition between retailers and that's a good thing for the customer.

It would keep the market super fluid and everybody wins.
rainslacker  +   1052d ago
I actually find that particular rule to be very anti-consumer. It pretty much locks in a person to a particular store if they want the benefit of being able to buy used. It decreases competition, and forces the consumer to buy new at multiple places should they wish to buy used at multiple places. In addition a consumer may be locked out of a used game sale unless they were willing to purchase a new game at the same time.

It would also mean that the consumer would be forced to register with a particular store in some way...such as the Best Buy RZ card, or Power Up rewards card from GameStop. Now that may not be that big a deal to many, but some people are very weary of signing up for this kind of stuff, because that information can be sold, and it's used as a way to track customer buying habits. That percentage is small of course, but it's still anti-consumer to have to force someone to use such a service to get that benefit.

It also gives little incentive for a store to advertise it's used deals(such as GameStop b2g1 free promotions). It also means stores that track their customers buying habits for how many used vs. new games are brought can statistically sit down and see how little they have to discount titles to get them to sell.

And it doesn't make the market makes it more complex. Retailers, despite how silly they seem, do not want to make things complex. They really have no interest in cutting out the used game market. If it is done, it will be on the part of the console manufacturers and publishers. They may be willing to work with publishers on a compromise, but publishers can't really regulate the retail market to that degree. Doing so is pretty much price fixing...and I'm sure there is a proper legal term for this exact scenario.

I know you probably made that up off the top of your head and didn't mean it as the way it had to be done, I just thought I'd point it out.

@jakens below

That is probably how it would be done. It's just an extension of the online pass. Sony's patent from last year was speculated to be for just such a thing(if not for complete removal of used games). There are downsides of course. What it comes down to is that the consumer right now just isn't ready to let go of the used market. Retail also isn't at a place where it can survive without it. Those issues have to be resolved before any real headway is made in limiting the resale of games. It's a clear scenario where the consumer has most of the power, and it is up to us to keep it by not accepting anti-consumer practices.
#3.3.1 (Edited 1052d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report
Jakens  +   1052d ago
It might turn out that every game has an Unlock User code on the disk (itself) and if used once, the next guy will be paying an unlock fee to play it after inputing that code to the menu screen.

Sure hope internet is not required to play my games.

No one that I have talked to wants to pay twice for something they own. No one that I have talked to like paying for a service that could be down at any time and for any reason. No one likes being screwed out of their freedom to enjoy something less than you did during a past generation.

If this current generation has not been good to you, the next one will also not be so good to you.
N0S3LFESTEEM   1052d ago | Off topic | show
dumahim  +   1052d ago
The person quoted seems to think there's two types of people in the world. People who only buy used games and people who only buy new games. He doesn't seem to factor in the rest.

I've maybe bought 2 used games in the last decade, and I know for sure that if they blocked used games beyond, say, a 2 year window after release of the game, I won't be buying the next Xbox.
PrinterMan  +   1052d ago
Sorry, but I don't believe it makes sense profit wise at all for Microsoft. How many people ONLY play used games. I'd say none. Most gamers want to be first for the games they desire most and won't wait for sales or used games. Any company that does this will taint their reputation to the general public. Also, this article is based on the fact that the sale of a console offers no profit to Microsoft or that they will buy nothing online from Microsoft. Too many holes in this profit theory.

Just my opinion however.
Jek_Porkins  +   1052d ago
I usually buy around 50 games a year, 40 are usually new and the rest used, but I also bring games over to a buddy's house and game, I also rent via Gamefly, so I prefer there to be used games.

I don't see Microsoft allowing people to rent games via Gamefly for only Sony and Nintendo consoles, same with walking into a Gamestop, they aren't going to allow the Microsoft brand not to be evident.

I'm excited to finally hear some real news on their next console, not conjecture and rumors.
maniacmayhem  +   1052d ago
I also do Gamefly, religiously.

MS (or Sony) blocking used games and cutting Gamefly out would be the ultimate deal breaker and I would be strictly WiiU.
Captain Tuttle  +   1052d ago
I feel like my IQ dropped 10 points reading that article.
Godmars290  +   1052d ago
This doesn't even address the rental market. That it wont even exist on the Xbox3.
TheKayle  +   1052d ago
no i think ms will trap sony on the power lvl
Tales RPG addict   1052d ago | Bad language | show | Replies(3)
keabrown79  +   1052d ago
They are also not accounting for people to trade in used games towards the purchase of new games. His argument wasn't very thought out in the grand scope of things.
Tales RPG addict  +   1052d ago
My friends and I play fighting games and bring them to play on each others PS3's. So yeah this may increase profits but will this help Microsoft Overall next Generation. Not as much since the "Required Always Online" will punish XBOX owners, and they speculate nothing but Bullshit. they think oh Multiplatform games will be delayed on PS4. BULLSHIT they won't cause PS4 is easy to develop for like PC. Don't give me that Bullshit of lies.
kassler  +   1052d ago
People who buy used games, at least some of them buys dlc. And with microtransitions coming to every game, used games will bring in some money to the developers.
MakiSaad2  +   1052d ago
Lets Duel
DarkZane  +   1052d ago
Sony are pretty much guaranteed to win even if Microsoft allow used games. If they indeed block, Sony are literally gonna destroy them next-gen.

It doesn't matter if you make more money with software if no one buys the next xbox because they can't trade their games back or rent them.
Software_Lover   1052d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(4)
Williamson  +   1052d ago
I sometimes borrow a game from a friend and he in return borrows one from me, ive also purchased used games when I cant find a new copy. If sony does block used games then it would affect me a little as not being able to trade games in/ rent(I make poor purchases once in awhile) would mean Id have to be about 75% sure that I'd enjoy a game before buying it.
Grimhammer00  +   1052d ago
I like how some people will say "can't afford new games then you shouldn't own a console"

After 2008 wconomy tanked. Many people struggle...and they still want to escape. Even more than richly rich with his 3 different consoles and 80" flat screen.

My point? I trade every game I'm finished with...often quickly for max return. It's always towards new games or seldom new hardware.
And I work and make good money. But I'm not naive to think every gamer by virtue of owning a console is capable of helping to sustain a market with no used games.

This also brings me to think that unless Xbox 720 or Ps4 are priced $399 or lower....sales won't be what they are likely looking for.
Software_Lover  +   1052d ago
economy tanked before 2008
Roper316  +   1052d ago
while I don't buy or support the used games market personally I can understand the need for it because not everyone has the disposable money to spend on gaming.

That being said isn't that the reason new games come with a online pass? And if you buy the game used you still have to pay around a extra 10 bucks via PSN or XBL to be able to play online. Then also factor in any DLC that they may purchase for the game. So while they may not make as much profit they are still making something back. Then you also have to ask yourself does that person buy every game used?

Again I personally don't care if a system does or doesn't play used games because I buy all my games new to support the publishers & developers who create & bring me my favorite form of entertainment.

I do think that MS will do more harm to themselves than good if they do block used games. They have spent years trying to build up their market share only to give it back? And the only reason the console was selling for a loss was because of the RROD disaster that cost them millions not because of the manufacturing costs. Sony was the only one actually paying more in manufacturing then they were selling it for.
FullMetalTech  +   1052d ago
Most likey will mean MS will have thier own game rental service in place. As for used games, they will probably charge you a fee to play it on a diferent console. Kinda like they have been doing with online passes so far.
EffectO   1052d ago | Trolling | show
Grimhammer00  +   1052d ago
Thinking of all the great games I'd never buy if I couldnt offset the cost with trades...

Binary domain
Spec ops the line
Lollipop chainsaw
Persona 4
Army of two cartel (Tuesday)

Is buy 3-5 games all year instead of the 40+!
#23 (Edited 1052d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
ApolloTheBoss  +   1052d ago
ALL OF MY WAT. Seriously my head hurts after reading this article. Even if Microsoft thinks that this little tactic will work, you can only make profit if people actually BUY the console. If the majority of consumers don't like it, then the rest will follow. Word of mouth is a powerful thing, people.
#24 (Edited 1052d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
azshorty2003  +   1052d ago
"Word of mouth is a powerful thing"

Exactly. As soon as mommy & daddy find out that they won't be able to buy the kids cheap used games come Christmas, do you think she will want that kind of system in their house?
ApolloTheBoss  +   1052d ago
I know my folks wouldn't, lol.
Freeball  +   1052d ago
Agreed. Plus, what publisher would have the balls to cut out 80% of the market (assuming the articles figures of 5m Xbox, 20m PS4)to try and entice customers? That's just stupidity. Same logic with timed exclusives or DLC. Angering 80% of your consumers is a good way to lose money.
azshorty2003  +   1052d ago
I can see how it would cause a loss for Sony reading his comment, it doesn't make Micrsoft any more money because if this all turns out to be true, then many people will bail on the 720 and move to the PS4. And less console sales means less of an opportunity to make money.

And in an unrelated note, IT'S TIME TO D.D..D..DUEL!!!
IcicleTrepan  +   1052d ago
there's so much bullshit in the article and in the comments.

1) always on - completely misinterpreted. not mandatory.
2) no optical drive - complete bullshit and you know it.
3) we don't know if they will block used games or not, there's no evidence of it either way. Wait for official word before jumping to conclusions.
azshorty2003  +   1052d ago
2) no optical drive - complete bull

No he said no optical SUPPORT. Because the concensious now is that games will Have to be installed. Meaning they won't be playable off the disc. The Disc drive is only used for installs and Movies.

Yes, it's still unconfirmed and could still be rumor at this point, but the evidence is pretty stong and has come from several sources in the past few weeks. So get pissy all you want, it doesn't change the fact that many of these points are pointing to 'Highly Likely'.
IcicleTrepan  +   1052d ago

You know what one of the complaints developers had this gen with xbox? That they had to build their game in a special way because the game may or may not be installed on the hard drive.

So MS allegedly fixes this by requiring install and everyone claims oh noes we're going to lose used games.

Just like how MS is adding features so that your system works online while it's 'off' to make your experience better, but everyone claims OMG ALWAYS need internet connection.

N4G user base sucks.
monkey nuts  +   1052d ago
Icicle you wrong mate. Devs were 'complaining' because not all 360s had hard drives so games had to be built with this in mind. Installs wouldn't be the better option for the nexbox though loading times would be improved, just aslong as all sku's had hdd's then devs would be satisfied. Get a clue son, really.
GABRIEL1030  +   1052d ago
The winner of this war must be the player and his liberty.

Nobody buy a product that goes against the liberty, can you imagine for example buy a car that you can't sell to buy another better or rent or lend to your family or friends?

Microsoft is preparing something big with "Xbox infinity", all rumors are false, maybe they will announce a great device with Skipe, "Illumiroom", the permanent internet conection will be optional and they will not block second hand games because nobody will buy their device and stores like Gamestop will block their products.

The solution against the second hand games and piracy is like Sony is doing in PS3, a great free online service, great digital discounts ( I bought Assasins Creed 2 Digital for 9.99¡) and an amazing premium service like PSN PLUS.
#27 (Edited 1052d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
rainslacker  +   1052d ago
The consumer should always be the winner in my opinion, in all things. Being a winner doesn't mean the companies need to be screwed over, it just means the consumer is getting acceptable value for their purchases and use of a product.

The console wars tend to take the consumer out of the equation, and instead focus on what is best for the companies involved. It creates a false sense of value for the consumers of a particular brand, but does little to actually make them a winner...just look how readily on-line passes were accepted.

I never understood it, because quite frankly, I would wager that 99.99% of the people that post these comments are consumers. Fight the power and all that I guess.

Edit @ Blow below

To be fair there were those who said it would be a good thing for Sony as well. You can't really take one post out of the multitudes and say that it's indicative of the common consensus. It's just one article showing a different perspective, and this particular article was just one person who clearly doesn't understand how business and the game industry actually work.

For me personally it seems like the idea is almost universally hated among gamers on here. Other forums tend to have the same feelings about it.
#27.1 (Edited 1052d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
BLow  +   1052d ago
So when the rumor of Sony blocking used games, the internet blew up and everyone cried about it. Now that MS might, it can be a good thing and people are defending this approach. I'm a little confused. Oh well, I'm getting tired of all these articles and I just wish MS will hurry up and announce their console so we can talk about the games again. Please April or E3 hurry up!! If they wait until E3, these articles are going to get really old quick. Imagine another 3 months of this crap. Please do it next month MS!!!
4lc4pon3  +   1052d ago
I agree with you completely. Have you noticed that its no longer about games its always the SAME ol posts over and over again.

I am not a huge fan of the xbox but thats my personal choice. I like Sony honestly because it gives me a bit more, Bluray, First party exclusives, my 50.00's per year gives me free games n such.

I just wish MS would announce the console and get these stupid rumors over with.
Tito08  +   1052d ago
It's the XBlind fanboys man, they're Microsoft's puppets, everything MS does, whether is good or bad, it's a blessing for their fanbase, these Xbox fanboys sure likes MS to dominatrix them!!
CRAIG667  +   1052d ago
To be perfectly honest I think both Microsoft AND Sony will block used game sales in one way or another...
jronj  +   1052d ago
1.People who trade in games "usually" use that money to buy new games.

2.Some people (me) will be less likely to pay full price for a new game if they can never resell it.

That's why I never get a digital download I always buy the disk. Digital download is worthless after I play it.
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