500°
Submitted by GamePodunk 524d ago | opinion piece

Next Gen Warfare: Has Microsoft Fallen Into Sony's Trap?

GP writer Jared discusses why Microsoft may have an uphill battle when revealing their next generation console to the world. (Culture, Industry, Microsoft, Next-Gen, PS4, Sony, Xbox One)

THC CELL  +   524d ago
Title hit nail on the head.
decrypt  +   524d ago
Sure if thats what you like to believe.

"we recently saw the public unveiling of the Playstation 4 in the last month"

Lol no we didnt, all we saw was a controller and some specs for the PS4PC, nothing much.

MS wont have a problem dealing with Sony, they been doing that since the last 10 years. Hence dealing with Sony isnt really on the top of their agenda right now.

MS has problems of their own to settle right now. Its the main business thats at stake right now, with the slow down in the PC industry.

The slow down in Windows sales and their tablets not taking off is where Microsoft will fall. Its not gonna be because of Sony thats for sure.

Playstation fans shoud rather be thanking Apple, Google & Samsung lol. If Windows sales carry on disappointing and due to those reasons we see Office and server divisions tanking. That is what will take the whale known as Microsoft down. It sure wont be Sony, they have problems of their own.
#1.1 (Edited 524d ago ) | Agree(23) | Disagree(93) | Report | Reply
MariaHelFutura  +   524d ago | Funny
PS4PC sounds like a compliment. Apparently PC are made directly by god, but it's also a Playstation. Sounds good to me.
-Falaut-  +   524d ago
Damn, I seriously though you where part of the club. Fix that in a jiffy....
Rush  +   524d ago | Well said
I love the way the Sony tribe like THC CELL on this site have completely switched there argument and pretend like no one has happened to notice.

First it was "The PS3 has better graphics and tech so it will last longer than the 360 forcing Microsoft to announce a year before Sony"

Because according to them that would give Sony a massive technical advantage. Now it's " Sony announce first so they have the advantage and Microsoft in in there trap"

N4G has made some strides towards becoming a balanced site as of late. But it's still a massive Sony heaven. A place where ignorance is all but encouraged. They should call this place N4G - The gamers bible
#1.1.3 (Edited 524d ago ) | Agree(40) | Disagree(29) | Report
jimbobwahey  +   524d ago
@decrypt

You make valid points but it's also worth noting that although Microsoft has been dealing with Sony for the past 10 years, they've also lost to Sony for the past 10 years as well.

During this time they have of course expanded their share of the home console market while Sony have seen theirs shrink, but at the end of the day Microsoft is on-course to lose yet another console generation to Sony.

I suspect that whenever Microsoft does unveil the next Xbox they will likely come out guns blazing due to sheer determination to beat Sony in round 3. I think their troubles in the PC industry will likely spur them to go all-out in an effort to try and at least secure the home console market, and some form of integration of Windows 8 with the next Xbox will also likely be an attempt to push the OS further and encourage PC adoption for the sake of compatibility and service integration for users of multiple devices.

Of course, it could all fail miserably and Microsoft will suffer major losses as all their divisions suffer in the face of competition, but I think the fact that Microsoft is facing such stiff competition is the exact reason why they'll probably go all-out aggressive and likely shock many people with what they have in store.
HarryMasonHerpderp  +   524d ago
Everyone sees the PS4 announcement as the be all and end all.
Do you think Sony are just going to sit back and not do anything at E3? Microsoft will be announcing their new Xbox while Sony can concentrate on showing us even more new games and gameplay, which is a great position to be in.
MikeMyers  +   524d ago
People act like the PS4 will be on sale soon, it won't be. The PS4 comes out this holiday which is quite a few months after E3 and even then it may not come to all regions by the end of this year.

Sony's announcement of the PS4 has people talking and that is great marketing for Sony. Microsoft will now have to come out swinging and show something substantial but they don't need to rush their announcement just because Sony surprised a lot of folks by announcing it in February.

The problem really isn't the wait for E3, it's how the internet is such a busy place trying to make something out of almost nothing.

I want to see Sony be very clear in their direction with the PS4. That's where Nintendo struggled with the Wii U. That will eventually force Microsoft to do the same because a lot of rumors are flying about the next Xbox and how much of an actual gaming device it really is. Microsoft needs to be very clear on Xbox Live as well. Will there be a free way of playing online, what real advancements is it taking in a world with Miiverse and Gaikai. How committed is Microsoft to the hardcore gamer and expanding their portfolio? I don't want to see tech demo's, I want to see substance. No more smoke and mirrors.
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dcbronco  +   524d ago
@decrypt

Windows isn't going anywhere. None of the other OS makers are any closer to knocking it off than they were when people first started talking of a Microsoft fall five or more years ago. But the devices division has grown a ton. It didn't account for much as far as profits, but it did for revenue. And as it matures it will account for a huge amount of the companies profits as well. Microsoft made record revenue last quarter.

http://www.microsoft.com/in...

Given all of the technology they are introducing and things they are doing in new fields they are only getting stronger. I believe they will make gains in phones, medical devices and IPTV(cable boxes and content) from what I've seen and read. And there position in gaming is strong.

Samsung is the only company that doesn't seem to have any problems of those you named. The iPhone has more problems from Samsung than Microsoft has. And Steve Jobs is gone. And yes, that does matter. Google has to figure out a way to make income other than advertising. None of those companies are a real threat to Microsoft.

@jimbobwahey

I'm not sure what information you're looking at when you judge winning and losing. Sony has lost as much money on gaming over the last ten years. They sold more PS2s and made more money last generation while MS lost billions. Then Sony sold as many PS3s but lost billions on the PS3 while MS made billions on the 360. These are businesses and making money is the point. If anything they are even over the last 10 years. As for Microsoft's business area problems. See the part above about record revenue. And the OS divisions made a profit of several billion dollars, not sure how they suddenly lose money considering any slow Windows 8 sales are easily offset by continued Windows 7 sales. And people will eventually move to 8 once the silly I don't like Metro thing dies.
#1.1.7 (Edited 524d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(5) | Report
Knight_Crawler  +   524d ago
All fanboys are bad but the Sony loyalist on this site take the cake big time.

They like to act like Sony is some sort of god and the PS is a bible that they are willing to die for.

Like I said all fanboys are bad but no one can deny that the amount of PS extremist on this site is ridiculous - think I am wrong post a pro MS XBOX article and watch the comment section turn into a PS is better than Xbox conversation.

Hopefully MS can release something with the same specs and content as the PS4 so the PS die hard do not have any ammo to attack the 720.
#1.1.8 (Edited 524d ago ) | Agree(25) | Disagree(36) | Report
Why o why  +   524d ago
goes both ways nightcrawler. Just go into any ps4 announcement article watch the hate. BOTH just as bad both just as hypocritical. If you stay out of ps articles you just wont notice it as much
..This whole gen has been a huge mud slinging contest

The biggest word I feel defines the hate is the word 'Needed' From rumble not being needed to hdmi or blu ray or x game chat. Replace what word which fans and fanboys alike use and the discusions become non events. Is having rumble hdmi or blu ray BETTER....Yep, so change needed to desired or would x make x better... Ive been hypocritical about a few things this gen but I dont expect much people to be as honest nor do I need them to be. Some people will be wrong n strong till their death.

Not sure any trap has been fallen into...lets wait until whats announced but I abnd many others were surprised sony announced first out of the 2 upper tier consoles

edit

ok whoever... ps fanboyz iz the worst evar

@ rush above... I agree with a lot of your points but just like your cell point what about blu ray or hdmi counter points. many tribes. Highlighting one sides fallacies is old plus this site wouldn't of thrived without it. Great vent spot
#1.1.9 (Edited 524d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(14) | Report
colonel179  +   524d ago
So you would have preferred to be shown the console but not the specs?. What the PS4 can do is much more important than what it looks!

Just look at the Wii U. They focused on the controller, and then after everyone's confusion they showed the console, but they stayed very quiet about the specs. Month after, everyone knew it was a disappointment, and that the specs of the consoles wouldn't be much better than the PS3/360.

I was more interested in the specs. How the console looks is not important. It's very unlikely that Sony will release a piece of turd as the console. Just look at the controller. It's very well designed and built. Expect the same for the console.

In short, not showing the console, doesn't mean they didn't unveil the PS4. ON the contrary, if they had showed everything but the specs, then they wouldn't have showed anything, because people wants to know what it can do!.
greenpowerz   523d ago | Trolling | show
insomnium2  +   523d ago
@jimbo

"During this time they have of course expanded their share of the home console market while Sony have seen theirs shrink"

PS3 is on course to sell 130 million consoles. How has Sony's market shrung really?

Seriously this same bs over and over again. Consoles are not like phones or cars where most people wouldn't even consider having more then one of those. This console gen people has found the usual Playstation and in addition to that they also bought a Wii and an x360. If there is something to be taken from teh marget zharez it is that this console gen MS and Nintendo weren't pathetic.

Sony is as strong as ever but this gen people found other consoles good as well. I have no idea what is it with all the fanboys who run with this market share bs. It really brings out the stupidity in people.
BitbyDeath  +   523d ago
Don't know about you guys but i'm quite interested in hearing more about this PS4PC which i'm guessing has some new tech called THC CELL.
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MysticStrummer  +   523d ago
"MS wont have a problem dealing with Sony, they been doing that since the last 10 years."

I guess, if being outsold by Sony is what you call dealing with them.
AsimLeonheart  +   523d ago
I think revealing a console first or second does not means anything in the long run. It may get you the initial hype and sales BUT a few years down the road gamers wont be buying a console based on the fact which was revealed first. Similarly, releasing a console first or second does not means much in the long run too. People buy consoles for games and services they provide. I bought a PS3 because of the exclusives, good hardware and free online. I did not buy an XBOX because of its notorious initial failure rate and paid online. The only things that matter in the long run are great games/exclusives, solid hardware, quality services and of-course the price.
Evil-snuggles   523d ago | Trolling | show
sarshelyam  +   523d ago
"Lol no we didnt, all we saw was a controller and some specs for the PS4PC, nothing much."

Yeah...actually we did @decrypt. You may not have seen the plastic that holds those specs, but it's the specs that drove the gameplay/videos for Knack, Killzone Shadow Fall, Drive Club, inFAMOUS: Second Son, etc. I suppose you missed all that?

Nice try though.
xxLuckyStrike  +   523d ago
Fanboys sense of reality is so warped. Microsoft has seen a 66% increase in sales alone from last gen. Sony has seen their Marketshare shrink. Xbox is on a massive incline. Sony has lost a significant marketshare from MS hence declining. Sony was said to have the more powerful console and is still in 3rd place( by 1.5 million) 8 years later.

Sony had to rethink and change up their whole identity for the PS4.

*They kicked the cell to the curb.
*Scrapped the XMB.
*Redesigned the controller.
*Added a Kinnect looking type camera
*Adding tier pricing.
*Charge for services.

Now WHO'S FALLEN INTO WHO'S TRAP?? Lol I love how you guys can twist anything in favor of Sony.
Old McGroin  +   523d ago
@ decrypt

"Playstation fans shoud rather be thanking Apple, Google & Samsung lol"

Why would PS fans thank Apple, Google and Samsung? No gamer should be happy if a console or corporation like MS or Nintendo fail, I'll never understand that side of Fanboyism. I'm a gamer, I like to play games so the more of them out there the better, I would never affiliate myself to just one console. I like Mario games so I bought a Wii U. I like Gears Of War so I bought a 360. I like Uncharted so I bought a PS3. I'm going to like games on the PS4 so I'll buy a PS4 and same goes for the next Xbox.

If I heard tomorrow that Nintendo were going out of business or that there wasn't going to be a next Xbox or PS4 I certainly would not be thanking anyone for their demise, I would be pretty p!ssed off!
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andibandit  +   523d ago
@sarshelyam

Actually no we didnt, some prototype PC with heavy similarities to a PS4 isn't public unveiling.
imdaboss1  +   523d ago
Microsoft barely made it last gen..Sony catch up and stole 2nd place..Imagine if Sony PS3 was released at the same time as the 360..I promise you the PS3 will sell at least 5 million more then the 360 right now..MS is lucky that they have fanboys who keep buying the system after it crapped out on them due to the red lights of death.
CoolBeansRus  +   523d ago
imdaboss, you are a sony fanboy. I can make the same argument, i can't believe you stuck with sony after they lost everyone's creditcard info to hacker who shut down their servers for a whole month. See? Fanboy mentality.
slampunk  +   523d ago
Sony catch up and took 2nd place!!!..LOL....Sony lost around 50% market share in one gen? and that's winning? foolish fanboy comment....
CoolBeansRus  +   523d ago
Slam, he doesn't see it like that. He sees a glorious comeback win because MSFT had a 1 year unfair advantage this gen!

Ps2 had over a year advantage on the xbox and 7 year advantage on the brand and lost 50% in one gen because they were too arrogant. So i don't see how they are winning.
A falling rock isn't flying on the way down, its falling.

I like both companies, i want them to compete, but i cant stand fanboys on both sides. I hate people that bash Sony and MSFT for no reason at all. Both have made mistakes so dont act like its all sunshine and butterflies in fanboy land.
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FlunkinMonkey  +   523d ago
It's amazing.. These idiotic comments naming and shaming apparent 'Fanboys', when you yourselves seem to be bursting at the seem with said Fanboyism. Are these one bubble warriors the pot calling kettle black?

With that said MS are in a position where they can possibly surprise everyone and dig deep. They're going to need something special because i feel Sony are pinpointing all previous mistakes and rectifying them for next gen.. I reckon they are going to kill it at E3.
Chaostar  +   524d ago
It's definitely a 'rock and a hard place' situation for MS. They can't just leave it until E3 because all multiplatform reveals up until then will have the PS4 logo on them and no 720. They also can't reveal too much to try and top Sony's reveal as there won't be anything left for E3.

Can't wait to see this unravel but I wouldn't want to work at MS right now they have a high bar to jump. I mean, if the rumoured specs are true and the 720 doesn't quite match up to PS4 then how do you say that without sounding inadequate?

I hope they really bring it and return to their core gaming roots, although there aren't really any exclusive third party games to steal anymore, there must be SOMETHING they can do.
#2 (Edited 524d ago ) | Agree(22) | Disagree(10) | Report | Reply
Good_Guy_Jamal  +   524d ago
Lets not be dramatic, first it was SONY will wait for Microsoft and then come up with something better, now that Sony went first then suddenly Microsoft is stuck between a rock and a hard place.
Lets pick a side SONY fans.
Chaostar  +   524d ago
Yeah because all fans of a particular console think as one hive mind when one speaks they speak for all. It's that kind of generalisation that says more about you than anything else.

If I have somehow contradicted something someone else may have said earlier it does not make me a hypocrite.

Back on topic, you have to admit MS have a challenge ahead and don't worry I'm not saying they can't rise to it, just so you don't take offence.
Good_Guy_Jamal  +   524d ago
Well according to a Crack in Time, Zoni's are a hive mind.
On a serious note, I do believe you'd saying the exact opposite if SONY were in Microsoft's position.
Chaostar  +   523d ago
Of course you believe that, because I'm not 100% positive about the console you love therefore I must be a fanboy of a competing platform right?

Typical N4G mindset, maybe you should take a break.
Outside_ofthe_Box  +   522d ago
Let's not be dramatic and only alienate one perspective here, first it was Sony was too scared and needs to wait and see what MS does so that they can copy them, now it's Sony was so scared that MS made them reveal first...

Let's pick a side MS fans...

So how was that? was I correct in claiming that all MS fans think that way? Was I correct in claiming that YOU think that what way? If the answer is no then what the hell gives you the right to do that to others?

With that said I do believe had this article switched MS and Sony and Chaostar swapped MS and Sony, You wouldn't have replied to him and instead hit the agree button and moved on... Am I correct in that assessment as well?

SMH @ the N4G mentality.
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solidjun5  +   515d ago
Good guy Jamal is a true fanboy.
CapsLocke   524d ago | Immature | show | Replies(4)
Garrison  +   524d ago
It was good read this one. MS does indeed seem to be a rough spot going into next gen right now. If they reveal everything soon they wont have anything good to reveal for E3.
Man I miss Peter Moore running the Xbox division, MS should of kept on creating new ip and games for the hardcore. Now next gen is coming up and what do they got now that the competition matched them up in services? Jack.
badz149  +   524d ago
Peter Moore?
Dude he was lucky MS is a deep pocket host because he lied big time about the RRoD and it almost blew out in MS's face if not because of their deep pocket!

If Sony or Nintendo, not MS who had had the RRoD and as bad as it was, the PS3 or the Wii would be forced to be recalled off the market!
Jazz4108  +   523d ago
At digital raptor...please show me where ms has revealed specs of there new console? They have not plain and simple. Your taking rumors as truth and that will come back to bite you.
Mathew9R   524d ago | Spam
urwifeminder  +   524d ago
You use crap as bait all you catch is flies not much of a trap.
Gamer-40  +   524d ago
What the Sony trap?
I don't understand. New xbox no games? Only ps4?
AAA games 90% multiplatform.
What talking about this site? This ridiculous.
jlukee  +   524d ago
I don't understand all this fanboy crap. Microsoft and sony do a fantastic job at bringing gamers quality games and thats all I care about. Sick of the hate.
iGamerZero24  +   524d ago
Amen ! When a fanboy takes a girl out on a date and tells them there's a imaginary war on the Internet about which game console is better, PM back with there's 4-40 time was when then ran out the door
Toolster  +   524d ago
I think Microsoft are thinking 1 of 2 things and that's why it's been quiet from them

1 oh crap the ps4 is a beast we need to do something
Or
2 we have that beat so no need to worry
GalacticEmpire  +   524d ago
If it's number 2 then why not come out and say it already? They could kill the PS4 hype dead if that were true, leaving it longer is just making their life more difficult.
Toolster  +   524d ago
Yeah fair point.
dcbronco  +   523d ago
Life is never more difficult if you totally have someone outmatched. It's the equivalent of a boxer carrying an opponent for several rounds before knocking him out. Not saying that MS definitely has a better machine. But I don't believe they have a much less machine. I believe their are architectural designs that will make the 720 much better than any leaked specs will have people believe. There is more than one way of making a machine perform. It's not all brute force.
GalacticEmpire  +   523d ago
@dcbronco I need more than blind faith and great white hype.

**Also 'there' not 'their'
fOrlOnhOpe57  +   524d ago
Explains Kaz's statement about 'letting MS show first - that was the feign - followed by the sudden announcement on Feb 20th - which was the bodyshot.
Advantage Sony insofar as until MS announce their new console, the gaming and tech world is very much focussed on PS4 and MS remain silent against rumour and conjecture.
Clever move by Sony.
sway_z  +   524d ago
Why do we pay so much thought and lip service to these articles??

In the end it all boils down to personal choice, and until that freedom is (completely) taken away, choice is still ours to make.

Please do not be distracted from 'Real World' issues by getting caught up in this 'superiority' complex. The same people who believe in the 'Must Have' philosophy are ultimately brainwashed drones who will care more about a lifeless object than humanity.

Just see entertainment for what it is, a past time designed to nullify and separate human consciousness from reality.

Escapism is not entirely bad as long as it is used to relieve boredom, but be aware this is a programmed illusion, Video Games are just one of many tools.

For the record, I am a long time gamer, but I (as we all should) am very mindful of remaining aware of my immediate surroundings.

An example could be that many people become so engrossed and fixated on what they see on TV screens at a sensory level, that they have literally left the room when engaged by Reading, Movie, Film and computer games. Or, how many of us have spent countless hours on the internet, then look up at the time and we wonder where the last 3- 6hrs went.

How many times do people not hear a word you say to them when they are transfixed (example Video Games, Sport on TV), or become aggressive, violent even when this fixation is interrupted?

Think independently, exit the 'Status Quo'...We don't need a 'Think Tank'
#11 (Edited 524d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Bar_Brothers   524d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(3)
Clarence  +   524d ago
This is exactly what I was saying M$ thought that Sony wouldn't show anything until 2014. Now they have to rush and try to put something together before April.
BuffMordecai  +   524d ago | Well said
You know that there wouldn't be as many pro Sony people on here if Microsoft didn't completely shit on their own fanbase. How you people continue to support a company that doesn't give a damn about its core is beyond me.
#14 (Edited 524d ago ) | Agree(16) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
stage88  +   524d ago
Exactly. Well Said.

The reason this site as well as many others have more support for Sony is because we are gamers. We like to play games and Sony know and cater to this. MS have moved mainly to more casual games thus, many people have lost interest in the xbox brand.
StrongMan   524d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(2)
HOO-HAA  +   524d ago
Have fanboys fallen into this flamebait trap? Tomorrow it'll be 'Have Sony fallen into Microsofts trap' and all the same fanboys will be sucked into that too!! This site needs a new category, 'flamebait'!
Dms2012  +   524d ago
There would be tears if MS announces the 360 and reveals a dual GPU architecture with 8 gig of GDDR5 memory, along with a ton of hardcore exclusives.
colonel179  +   524d ago
and also unicorns and triple rainbows.
Mikeyy  +   524d ago
Tears from Microsoft Fanboys, because they could'nt afford the $700 console.

MS Fanboys ragged on SONY for the $599 price point, you seriously think MS can sport a Crossfire setup for $400 or less? And Budle Kinect 2.0 in there?

LMAO
HOO-HAA  +   523d ago
Tears like the ones your weeping now?
Ps_alm3k  +   524d ago
I know this is going to be sad. But all they have to reveal is the next call of duty and hal0 5 and everybody will just a get an xbox. Im no fanboy but this is a true opinionated statement. Variety of games is where it at for any game loyalist. That being said, whoever shows the most quality game wins.
Mikeyy  +   524d ago
Sad but true, In the United States people buy products based on "buzzwords". And "Xbox" is just one of those buzz words.

It's been indocrinated over the last 7 years on TV, baked into every High School kids minds.

Also the fact it was cheaper, so the kiddies naturally got it for christmas. Suddenly all the 13 year olds had something in "common" and thus the Xbox because the "in" thing.
KillrateOmega  +   524d ago
At the very least Sony has taken the advantage while putting MS in a tough spot. The pressure is now on MS to get their reveal in order while not revealing too much (need something for E3). In the mean time, the PS4 will continue to generate hype without the worry of immediate competition.

Like them or hate them, Sony has been handling this entire next-gen affair quite well so far.
DiRtY  +   524d ago
when MS gave us specs before Sony, would have Sony got into MS trap?

At the end of the day those 60 days between the announcements of the consoles won't make a difference.
MysticStrummer  +   523d ago
I'm a Sony guy for sure, but I can't see how Sony has any clear advantage yet, in terms of luring MS fans away. We need to see what MS announces and how the release dates compare.
headblackman  +   523d ago
this guy is a fool if he believes what he just wrote. and any bod that goes along with it is a cousin of his. when will people leaarn that it never matters what Sony tries to do. just like this current console generation, it doest start until Microsoft says it does. remember that!
badkolo  +   523d ago
xbox is just the Trojan horse, to think ms doesnt see the pc world changing is foolish thinking, consoles are turning into pc's, both the 360 and ps3 could be used for all your basic pc tasks, correct?? ok granted your not running office and stuff but you can browse the net, use apps and so on. now we are 1 step closer to consoles becoming pc like in more aspects and dont expect that to change, both ms and sony want to take over the living room and in the end who ever has that control wins. Pc will continue to change and tablets and phones are the cause, some might hate tablets but tablets will do everything a full blown pc can in a few years time.
Bonerboy  +   523d ago
pfft! sony's trap? gimme a break. yet another stupid article based on pure speculation and assumption. This shit carries no weight at all. Keep trying. Maybe sony's fallen for ms's trap? equally stupid.
MultiConsoleGamer  +   523d ago
Sony has no trap. Their financial situation is dire and the ps4 is make or break moment for the company. If it fails the company will go under.

Also, people clinging to the old dichotomy of two rival companies are living in the past. This dated belief shows little understanding of the new market.
RuleofOne343  +   523d ago
NO, Besides if they did put a trap out, it does not seem to have caused the affect they were looking for.
Cause MS has not budged at all.
#24 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Max-Zorin  +   521d ago
Smh at these comments. Sony and Microsoft fanboys need to meet up and fight already. This is getting really ridiculous.
#25 (Edited 521d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Tacklebait  +   518d ago
For me, next gen in the near future is vr gaming, and the oculus rift right now is my next gen excitement. Its too early to tell if a the next gen consoles will be able to support this, but I may be primarily a pc gamer if palmer lucky does things right. I will have both consoles and will play their respective ips but the wow factor will be what virtual worlds i'll be able to run around in and explore.

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