The Xbox 720’s memory system has allegedly been revealed in a fresh leak outlining the internal components of Microsoft’s upcoming next-gen console.
I really hope these specs arent true, and MS does find a way to bump up to GDDR5 modules, and drop the silly move engines. From the looks of it Sony won't have any competition next gen power wise until PCs surpass it in a few years.
how the fuck you think they're not going to have competition? it takes more then ram to make graphics.
It's also about how fast those operations can be done. Based on leaked info, Xbox is going to process 1.23 tflops with a max 102 gb/s bandwidth compared to 1.84 tflops & a max of 224 gb/s bandwidth on ps4. Plus it's easier to move info with unified memory. I hope that's not the case either bc Xbox is my preferred system but I own all.
"PCs surpass it"wtf are you talking about , gaming PC already are more powerfull than what ps4 is!
In terms of specs yes, but we'll see better looking games than whats on PC now. Its all about optimization. As an analogy, What a console can do with 4, a PC will take 10 to do.
I see your miss informed the way the PS4 is built their is no gaming PC right Now that can surpass it ok, it will take them two years then it will probally surpass it look it up, this has every thing to do with the unified memory which is Not in PC ,GDDR5 it matters.
Yes top end PC surpass what the PS4 can dream of. but lets look at this way. If the PS4 cost $500, can you honestly tell me that you can find a gaming PC with PS4 spec and power for $500?
So if you going to compare the PC to the PS4 you have look at the price point of both platform to make comparable. Its really unfair to compare a $2000 gaming PC to a $500 console. So let end the PC is better than PS4 argument unless you are talking about both platform at the same price point.
A truck is more powerful than a car, yet the car goes faster haha
DeadFrag you are completely right... Screw your disagrees. Kakashi Hatake... PC already has the advantage over next console generation. These better looking games your talking about are already possible on PC but the 360/PS3 have the bigger market share so they dominate the quality. Nothing like having a game dumbed down to fit into the ram confines of this console generation then when it comes to PC all they do is add some cheap FPS hungry effects which you can't tell if their on or off not to mention the PC version always inherits the same engine limitations as the console version. Next gen consoles will be playing catch up... and PC gamers will finally see what their rigs can do.
Sarcasm, please tell me that's sarcasm... otherwise lol
@kayoss....even the argument of price point is an invalid one. The console market and PC market work in totally different ways. Its not apples to apples unless there is a way to normalize it. For example, maybe $1 you spend on a console is equivalent to $2 in the pc market.
In which case Hatake a mid level year old graphics card can do 15. A 2013 graphics card can do 20. If you want to SLI you can get 40-70 (or 45-80) or thereabouts....and if you go really uber you can get well over 100 with Titan. Actually no...I got a GTX 670 on launch for $399. That's more powerful than a PS4 for 100-200 dollars less and I got it and have enjoyed it for almost a year now, and will have another half a year before my PS4 is delivered to me.
Lol, you do realize that while 8gigs of ram is awesome it has a very lackluster and 2 generation old GPU in it right? (the thing that actually makes the graphics look good in layman terms) And from the looks of it the way the architecture is the Xbox will probably be neck and neck again with the PS4. That ESRAM is sexy stuff. Its another win for all gamers.
A 2 generation old GPU with no added fat though. Not only 'down to the metal' performance without being hampered and throttled by drivers and API's but dev's will be able to optimize the crap out of the console hardware as a whole without having to worry about the lowest common denominator and multitudes of hardware configurations. The creation is built on the intended platform and graphics still sell so they go the extra mile too. You can take a low powered engine and build a light car around it and have a very fast car still.
Most engines these days have a port or build button... Want it on android ok here ya go. It's called middleware and pcs have it also. So basically we will be taking an old gpu and trying to meet the extreme with that while pc devs simply use all of that evolving hardware that is out there like gt690s and I7s. The ps4, Xbox, and wiiu will be fine if we are not basing our excitement off specs yet games.
We'll see how much "HSA" is actually in the PS4's chipset. From the looks of it, there is no such thing in the next xbox. But really depending on which generation this goes, there is something like cache coherency between GPU and CPU in AMDs HSA (APU) architecture which goes so far that paged memory can be shared (memory pointers can be used AS IS between CPU and GPU). And yes, while this will probably not beat the top end PCs down the road, it will allow engines to take quite a unique path down the implementation road; and will keep the PS4 competitive. Games are made more and more by artists and designers and only a handful low level engineers (pity, but so be it). Engine front ends look the same across all platforms, but on the low level they could simply be implemented completely different (Physics will have tremendous benefits using HSA - not just the part which runs on the shader cores). I'll be curious. But it's "not just a PC". I'm not sure what to think about MS's approach. They control the OS which runs on it (what I mean, is, incl. the whole windows backend and dev tools). So, I would think they will try to hide as much as they can through their OS, otherwise it looks to me that devs will have a lot to optimize to fully take advantage of the architecture...it took them quite some time to really use the benefits of 360s EDRAM. We'll find out eventually. I lean more towards the PS4, but I wouldn't want to write off the next XBox just yet. From the looks of it, it is far from being balanced between these two the next gen around.
@ popup : GPU in next-gen consoles is not 2 geneneration behind, it's one. PS4 GPU belongs to Southern Islands family.
Is the complexity of things they offer that counts not the power. Power vise do you think MS is that stupid? Think again. And how the whoyouwit04 said in the upper comments it takes more things to make graphic than ram.
ok can someone explain the article I read it the comments here and there 3 times and couldn't get it. can someone educate this old one, please no fanboyism thanks
In short, MS tried to optimize it's design for specific sub task with a lot of "expert systems" compared to one big chunk of "jack of all trades". Does this make sense? It's a common approach to solve problems. You use very specific "blocks" where they can perform best. But, is it really? Some analysis must have gone into the approach to come up with this solution. But it's a little questionable from all we know. Often it's based on the limitations we have at the time to come up with design solutions. Two pools of mem in the PS3 - XDR vs GDDR. Rings a bell? Separate Vertex and Pixel shaders vs unified shaders (RSX vs. Xenon), anyone? Now MS and Sony make a 180. Weird. Lean and mean PS4 vs. cluttered NextBox? So, well, what MS has done is, create sub systems which are good on their own - CPU has lower latency in DDR; the 68GB/s in DDR3 are actually quite impressive. But it has limits accessing the graphics side of things, GPU relies almost exclusively on a fast - shared - interface into DDR3 and buffers; no dedicated graphics RAM. The GPU has "helper" chips - the Move Engines, video encode/decode engines and a fast EDRAM buffer. So, it is very specialized for graphics tasks. IO has some dedicated HW - that is used to work with the rumored next gen Kinect because with high res images, the box must crunch quite some numbers from the video feed it receives from the camera. But eventually all those "entities" must work together and this is where it will become tricky. Those interfaces are bottle necks where developers will have to pay attention to to maximize performance. I agree that the design appears to be overly complicated compared to what made the 360 great: it's relatively simple and elegant design. But, the result is not so easy to determine. The PS3 still outperforms the 360 (even if only marginally - see Tombraider as a multi platform baseline). So, while going by raw bandwidth specs I'd rather give the PS4 the advantage. But specialization can possibly outperform it in some areas; I wouldn't want to make a final judgment until we see games on both eventually.
thanks Ju that was very informative.like you said lets wait and see what will be shown/unveil at E3.I hope for Microsoft sake they don't make Sony mistake since they don't have the backup of many high quality first party studios as Sony this gen @nafon I understand some technology and when I don't get something I ask for help instead of been a idiot that think knows everything like you
lol another person who doesn't understand any technology
"Sony won't have any competition next gen power wise until PCs surpass it in a few years." GTX680 and an i5 processor says "hi". Really, stop pretending this thing is high-end in terms of tech. Let alone the best thing available at the moment. It's good for its price. That's it.
If MS uses DDR3, sony will b*tch slap em nx gen.. The exclusives will clearly outperform them & look better too.. Who knows tho? MS might have something we have no idea is coming but i doubt itl be something that gamers want.. They have clearly stated on multiple occasions that its more of a multimedia device than a dedicated gaming machine
you people need to stop acting like there is going to be a big difference in graphics cause there won't be I can promise you that. it will be the same as this gen graphical difference won't be noticeable but you can't tell you sony fans that just like we couldn't tell you that about the PS3 but what happened, you will make your selves look like a bunch of corporate ass kissers once again just wait and see.
PS3 used the "cell" processor so it was a whole different world when developing games on it.. Very complex as well but they managed to get a lot of western games done despite being lead developed on 360 or PC.. I agree that it MIGHT not be that huge of a difference but i can pretty much PROMISE u that sonys exclusives will have significantly better polish than anything MS gets just like they do now.. All the multiplats nxbox gets might be scaled down a bit too.. Nx gen games will have the same basic coding since both systems will be using PC architecture but that extra memory & power will allow higher polygon counts, refresh rates, bump mapped textures, & smoother frame rates.. PS4 may be the lead platform & then ported over to the others.. Theres no corporate ass kissing here.. Ill be the 1st to admit that sony designed the PS3 very poorly however they still did a fantastic job with everything this gen regardless of the initial high price point, complex hardware, & inferior network.. PS Plus is an amazing value for customers that will attract MANY gamers nx gen.. PSN is FREE of charge to play games & cross game chat (vita).. PS4 has a great deal of publisher support already too as well as some great features.. Theres nothing u or anyone else who wants to hate on sony can do but sit back & watch it dominate.. Its the best value for gamers & has the most robust software choices in the industry.. Its a core gamers system & they will buy it
I own exclusives for both systems and I believe non of the 360's exclusives come close to uncharted 2 alone, bub. Heck, uncharted 2 still destroys most multiplat games. La noire and final fantasy 13 are the best looking multiplat games out there. If there is one thing the ps3 beats the 360 in is the graphics capabilities. When it comes to multiplats, there arent much differences.
"They have clearly stated on multiple occasions that its more of a multimedia device than a dedicated gaming machine" lol...wen then that say that? No, they never did. It was just people and rumors.
It's not about excusives. They would look on PS4 better anyway because of the of Sony's first-parties. The real thing is - a multiplatform title developed on PC (or X720 as the lead platform) and ported directly to PS4 will have a significant improvement in performance over X720. We are talking here about very similar architectures and PS4 has an edge now. Why? Because of the design Microsoft chose: general-purpose, cheaper RAM with lower bandwidth, slower CPU and GPU. Why? Because they are building more of a DVR and a media server than a console AND they have to include the price of Kinect 2 in the cost calculation. Expect more cartoony games with Kinect controls. If they want to achieve some magic from the hardware, they need to hardcode this ESRAM, just like devs had to go through hell with Cell in PS3 (well, to a much lesser scale). There are two 'buts': a similar concept of embedded RAM was in X360 and it wasn't until Halo:Reach (IIRC) that somebody utilized this buffer to the fullest. Second 'but' is a rumour that Microsoft doesn't allow low-level programming with their new console as it goes against their concept of a media hub/server. All this if the rumours are true, of course.
Not necessarily, because Microsoft then will have a clause in their terms that no game will be released on Xbox if the game is not on par or better than the other consoles. Just like they did this generation. Believe me, Microsoft will find a way to screw the competition, if they can't do it the right way.
Just like Sony has been in Japan for years.Stop it.
Then i guess no game (third parties) will be released on their system as most developers don't want to be held back by hardware again. Plus quite a few developers have already done this i.e EA with battlefield 3 with support for SPU-based deffered shading.
The cpu cache can slow your RAM down by tons and the cache is weak on both and the 8 cores are basic cores not powerful jaguar cores are slightly updated atom cores very basic,it's all to make you fanboys look at big numbers and get excited ?? What's all this obsession with RAM,Havok have just released technology that allows textures to be compressed by x10 look it up,if you need say 1GB of texture memory you can have it for 100MB so memory isn't an issue in game design with todays technology ?? WiiU has 1GB or 2GB for games all we know is it has 4GB it was always speculation that half of that was in retail no one said this only 4GB of RAM so i'm thinking it uses 1GB or 2GB RAM on games which is enough for any game.
Oh, look! Wii want to play U ;) Sorry. I couldn't resist. Reading your posts have a certain entertainment value, that's for sure. I'm wondering if it's your hobby to feed the trolls or if you really believe what you are saying.
Please link to a Microsoft source that stated the next XBOX is "more of a multimedia device than a dedicated gaming machine". Oh wait...you can't since MS hasn't even officially announced the next XBOX. "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life son."
stiggs it looks like you and your dumb comment got owned!!!!!!
As I stated in my initial post "link to a MICROSOFT source". You responded by citing a quote from an indie developer who holds a grudge against MS for some kind of perceived mistreatment during his development of the oft delayed Braid. He pissed and moaned about the way MS handled the release of Braid yet it turned out to be the best selling Live release of all time. He also threatened that he would "kill himself" if his game was not completed and/or successful. So excuse me if I don't take his word regarding anything related to the XBOX console as the gospel truth.
Owned? Is that what happened? I got "owned"? What are you, 12? Try to THiNK before you respond in the comment section. That way, you won't look like an ignorant tool. Good luck with that...
Before quoting stuff, one should really examine the source. Blow (Braid Dev) blabbered about thing, but conceded in the same article (yes, the *full* article from the original source) that he knows nothing about MS plans, and just based it off the leaked rumored news! "Some were technical – we [Braid Devs] haven’t officially been disclosed on Microsoft’s next console, but we do see the same leaks as everyone else has, and they seem plausible." http://www.edge-online.com/... Top it off with a displeased developer and you get the idea! Alright, so who is going to apologize to stiggs? After all he is right, nobody knows MS direction except MS. Even the relevant partner only get the relevant data, not the entire picture!
I speak truth fanboys the point is RAM means nothing these days when tech like HAVOK allows compression with added detail by x10 makes RAM not important as every game uses HAVOK,plus its the Cache these days,and wiiu has a cpu with eDRAM cache and lots of it here's what cache does. Cache (pronounced cash) memory is extremely fast memory that is built into a computer’s central processing unit (CPU), or located next to it on a separate chip. The CPU uses cache memory to store instructions that are repeatedly required to run programs, improving overall system speed. The advantage of cache memory is that the CPU does not have to use the motherboard’s system bus for data transfer. Whenever data must be passed through the system bus, the data transfer speed slows to the motherboard’s capability. The CPU can process data much faster by avoiding the bottleneck created by the system bus. As it happens, once most programs are open and running, they use very few resources. When these resources are kept in cache, programs can operate more quickly and efficiently. All else being equal, cache is so effective in system performance that a computer running a fast CPU with little cache can have lower benchmarks than a system running a somewhat slower CPU with more cache. Cache built into the CPU itself is referred to as Level 1 (L1) cache. Cache that resides on a separate chip next to the CPU is called Level 2 (L2) cache. Some CPUs have both L1 and L2 cache built-in and designate the separate cache chip as Level 3 (L3) cache. Right this is normal Cache with no eDRAM ect and less memory as well the wiiu cpu has 3MB of this which will make the cpu very powerful.
meh, its the least interesting thing to think about despite what sony says.
dme ? best way to resolve bw issue.....genious same perf of gddr5 without spendind that much...and plus resolve stall and gpu idle time....and gddr5 latency ;) ps this document r 1 year old ...just to let u know eh but i think most of u dont understand what theres wrote over there
Exactly!!! most of this stuff has changed might be for the better or might be for the worst. We wont know till they unveil their system.
Completely off topic. But, I like saying NextBox ( I pronounce it like NexBox ). It just rolls off the tongue. And it has TWO X'S! How rare is that!? I wouldn't mind if that was the actual name.
Every Xbox has two Xs :P
Faster RAM doesn't make for a better game or experience. Information will be loaded faster however you're talking maybe a few seconds at most.
hey I hear ya but those extra seconds or minor tears or installs that prevented issues were blown way out of proportion. If it affects multiplatform games im sure it'll be the same again ... next gen trollin style for whichever console underperorms by 0.8 percent
Faster RAM doesn't make for a better game or experience... Umm yes it does, it gives developers less limitations
Not just information. There is higher resolution, more anti-aliasing ( specialy in opet-world games ).
http://www.vg247.com/2012/1... Read this WiiU has zero RAM bottlenecks.
There is nothing fresh about this "leaked" specs. This is just VGLeaks taking the same specs they reported on over a month ago that they had from a spec sheet back in 2012. The only thing "Fresh" about this is they go all technical on the different elements which they hadn't done before. This is the same info they had before just being shown in a different way. Nothing to see....moving on.
no rumours are facts and shouldn't be treated as facts, including leaks, until it comes from the horses mouth. I'm really sick of coming on N4G to see the say leaked info and rumours being used as fact by everyman and his dog. We haven't got long to wait until announcements. Summer isn't far off.
Gaf had been commenting on leaks and rumors about the ps4 months before it was leaked even have pics of the controller and those rumors and leaks were 95% on point minus the Gddr5 ram. The same has been done with Xbox and given the gaf sites good history on leaks being that devs and ppl in the know how actually have accounts their Xbox is looking to be weaker than ps4 especially in ram dept. You can say rumor this and rumor that but when ppl in the know how leak this info and the gaf site is usually right dont take these rumors lightly.
It is a fact that the leaks are a year old, possibly even older. This has been stated over and over again on GAF as well.
Same with the ps4 and it turned out to be mostly true. I agree with the one above that it is best to not take the rumors lightly since the ps4 rumor was mostly accurate.
True, in regards to the PS4 leak the most important details was left out... the fact that Sony decided to with the 8 GB of DDR5. So, if there were discrepancies 2 months prior to the reveal of the PS4, then surely MS has time to tweak the specs of the Nextbox.
Not only is the 720 going to be weaker, its also going to more complicated to develop for. With Sony having far better first and second party, its easy to see which console will pump out better looking titles.
My student is correct, lol.
Master, youre alive. Your son has surpassed us all lol.
Hopefully I will join you soon on the battlefield. Stay strong. lol
Minato you are a slave and Kakashi you will fall at the might of Madara Uchiha...you have no chance to survive make your time.
Your resistance is senseless...all power fails to compare to that of the Uchiha.
and the 360 was weaker than the PS3 yet most multiplat games looked basically the same this gen with slight edges to one or the other.
How do those multiplats compare to titles killzone, uncharted, god of war, and heavy rain?
....Tomb Raider. enough said
Ps3s architecture and bottlenecks are to blame for that. I still don't see any 360 games that keeps up with UC3, KZ3 and God of War 3.