Just thought I would share what I found while surfin the gamestop website.
a great idea by MS, cause now you will have to buy their special HDMI cable for your 360, unlike PS3 which will allow you to use any hdmi cable. very smart marketing decision to line your pockets and not your competitor's.
Actually yep you're right. It's a special connection, so a special cable. All HDMI cables are expensive though.
The best thing is: Sony needs to put in special HDMI ports, while 360's port is just a digital out that can be used for whatever cable is on the market.
Like it can do 1080p now, it gets a HDMI cable and actually it might be included with the HD-DVD add-on.
Nope, not all are expensive. In fact there are some as low as $7. The thing with HDMI, that people should know, is that either the cable works or it doesn't. People will pay anything, it's $200 so it must be good. Monster is ripping people off, and so is Microsoft if they're charging $100.
Don't be fooled, the cheaper HDMI cables produce the same signal at the same quality.
Not cheap. Built Ford tough. You cant really tell the difference unless you compare on a really big HDTV, Radio shack $40 HDMI vs Monster $150 HDMI, i say Monster has a slight edge, it has deeper Black level. People are paying for the way HDMI cables are built not so much the BS you pointed out that everybody knows.
Mart said this figure a few days ago but obviously can accept the fact hdmi cables can be bought for coppers/cents..........yes there are expensive cables BUT, the average jonny will quick happily have a cheap as chips cable.
HDMI is a digital sytem not analogue. Ones and zeros are the only thing it carries. Either the cable functions or it doesn't. Saying a monster hdmi cable produces deeper blacks is like saying that the number one is way deeper on a monster cable than on a generic cable. It simply doesn't make sense.
Resistance is the enemy here with these high frequency transmissions. The resistance goes up with frequency and a lot of data needs to flow down an hdmi cable to support 1080p60. A generic cable may be fine at short lengths but at longer lengths you may have trouble supporting even 1080p24.
Of course, as with all things, you need to avoid the companies that are making marvelous snake oil claims for a premium price or companies that promise the world at rock bottom prices.
As with all things, you get what you pay for to a point but after that you are just a sucker.
100 bucks is out of the question, that's too much. VGA is 30, HDMI should be 50
A good sheilded HDMI cable that won't break cost around $80 to $150. Plus you don't know what the connector includes, do you. It could have extra features ect(AUDIO ports, EXTRA HDMI PORT). Why would MS try and ripp people off when they sell stuff at a loss to try and keep everything as cheap as possible.
What about the $100 20gb hdd. I'm pretty sure they're making a profit on that ripoff.
That price will be decreased around when the PS3 comes out. Mark my word on that.
But still it did make them alot of money, i'm no fanboy
I brought two hdmi cables for my comcast hd/dvr receiver over a year ago. The 6' cables were around $8 a piece and they work perfect till this day. I originally had a $90 cable from Fry's (phillips brand I believe) and I saw no difference between it and the cheap cable.
Consoles are sold at a loss but accessories are bread and butter. They are profit makers.
A good rule of thumb for decent functional hdmi cables is to expect to pay about $10/ft but this is of course skewed here since one end is a multiport so it is kind of specialized.
There are only 2 reasons for hdmi on 360 at present.
1 - 1080p game support. At present there aren't any games that support this resolution.
2 - 1080p movie support. Component will carry a 1080p signal so if you have a native 1080 set check if it will accept 1080p component input. Also, the 360 does not have hdcp hardware so at present it can't support ICT implementation. This cable will not solve this problem. ICT isn't enabled right now and shouldn't be until after the 360 life cycle.
Sooo... this means the only reason to buy this cable after the HD-DVD add-on release or 1080 game support) is if you own a 1080 set that only accepts full 1080p over hdmi. I'm guessing this represents precious few people. I would wait to see how things unfold over the next year.
You just hit the nail on the head. They take a loss on the console and mind you that is only really true for about the 1st yr, then the price of all the parts come down, plus through cost cutting, they eventually bring it down to the point where they are straight up making profit of the system), but they make all the profits on the accessories. Controllers, HD's, cables, games, memory cards, etc. However, I have to say that the Xbox1 is the exception to this rule, but its their own fault for making bad licensing agreements
Thank god, someone tell C-net and everyone else to shut up now. And if you really want HDMI, you will fork out 100 bucks for it. Me, im extremely happy with 1080i, so ill stick with it.
Are you saying a 20 gig Hdd is worth less than $100?. Sony has to use the Hdd for games(they wern't thinking of you when they give you such a big HDD for free) it's not MS's falt they have to sell the PS3 at Such a loss to compete.
Yes I'm saying they shouldn't be that expensive. I bought a 250gb hard drive, 7200 rpm, for $140. So I think a $100 price for a twelth of that is ridiculous.
Well you bought a standard PC drive. The xbox 360 uses the smaller 2.5 Inch notebook harddrives which cost way more.
that's a seperate HDD. This is an integrated one with a case and other hardware included. Furthermore, smaller HDD's are more costly per GB then large ones.
And yeah, it's a special product with no competition in producers. Seperate HDD's are having competition.
Competition gives lower prices. But the PS3 hardware won't be cheap either. So what's your point exactly?
You can get a 60 GB 2.5" notebook hard drive for under $60 (western digital), so seeing Microsoft shove a 20GB 2.5" notebook hard drive in an empty plastic case and charging $100 is pretty questionable.
SO what do you expect from Sony?
To give you cheap stuff? Like the PS3?
For real. It's not a legit point. Seperate HDD's have competition. There are more suppliers. Stuff special designed and patented in total always are more expensive. Understand me well, I would like 100 GB 360 HDD's for 100 Euro if you'd ask me. But I understand why there aren't (yet).
Look at all special hardware stuff, always more expensive then free to place universal hardware stuff.
So DJ you're wrong. This is the demand/supply question. High demand, limited supply/suppliers --> high price
Although the ps2's hard drive was pretty much useless, it was 40 gigs and came with FFXI for 100 bucks. I'm hoping MS does something so I can upgrade from the 20 gig HDD. I really like downloading demos
20gb external hard drives run for $75 and that is for 4,600 rpm. Is the 360's hard drive 7200 rpm?
No, its not! its a 5400RPM drive, and the 360 HD is too expensive. Dont give me this, "it's not", crap. And to KMart, the PS gives you 40 gigabytes mores (equvalent to 2 more 20 GB 360 HDs, which would cost you $200), and a wireless wifi (which is $100 for the 360). So the HD is cheaper on the PS3 than it is on the , period! There is no way around it, the HD on the 360 is expensive
You really do not need it. My projector can do 1080p and it only has a 5%-10% improvement. It not that important. But I will get the HDMI cable when it is offered under $40.00.
What, 1080p is 5 to 10% improvement on 720p? Or do you mean that HDMI is 5 to 10% improvement on the signal being more stable?
The 360 hard drive has some music and a game and some other BS on it also. MAn! the price is normal/average. give it a rest.
how Microsoft is going to put a built-in HDMI port in order to compete with Sony. Whether or not they're get the rights to version 1.3 is another story, and that's if it's built-in.
If they do another add-on (which they have to in order to support older versions of the console) the quality might not be as good as having a built-in port. There's little doubt in my mind that they'll try it though.
why do any of you believe the gamestop website? Everyone is always saying how they are never right but now that its something positive for the 360 you microsoft fanboys are going to suddenly believe them? If it were something like this for the ps3 that most likly wasnt true you would all say bs its not going to happen and as much as i would like to have an hdmi cable to hook up to my 360 it probably isnt going to happen anytime soon if ever. O and FYI its been there for a couple of months now
MS designed the 360 as a HD console(HAVE SAID IT FROM THE START) 720p, 1080i, 1080p has nothing to do with Sony. The port in back of the 360 is all digital converted to anologe not, anologe coverted to digital. lol putting An universal digital port in the back of the 360 is not trying to keep up with Sony. MS did the same thing with the 360's software (IT WILL NOT BE THE SAME INTERFACE IN DUE TIME), it can evolve. Say what you want it just sounds like fanboyism. The 360 does not have RCA ports, component ports or composite ports, and the digital Audio port isn't on the 360, IS! IT!. I thought you said you had an 360?. You really think that they'll go through all this trouble to half ass build it?. MS will set a new standard as they always do, Watch!.
Can you explain to me the major differences between HDMI 1.2a and 1.3 and how this will benefit or show a major improvement in Video Games.
in addition to having Deep Color functionality. 1080p video was originally limited to 30 frames per second, but since version 1.3 doubles the bandwidth of 1.0~1.2a it allows 1080p video to be transmitted at 60 frames per second.
Movies are only 24 frames per second, but videogames run the gamut all the way to 60 frames per second. The importance of Sony's upgrade to HDMI 1.3 thus becomes obvious. It's completely a hardware feature, though version 1.3 output is still compatible with previous version inputs. This means that while HDTV owners with older HDMI inputs won't be able to experience the benefits of Deep Color and 60 FPS 1080p, they don't have to worry about the hardware not working.
I hope that answers your question Bladestar.
The colourdept from component already is good. I doubt if you'll see the difference really between 1.2 and 1.3 but well.
And your eye won't see the difference above 24 fps. So 30 or 60 no big deal. You won't notice.
And MS gave surprises before. Like implementing 1080p through software and having a DIGITAL outputport which can do HDMI if they want to make the cable and they will.
So the 1.3 HDMI couldn't they do it through the software update?
Are you crazy KMart!? no difference between 24fps and 60fps? Then I guess that there is no difference between COD2 (60fps) and say PDZ (30fps). You statements just keep getting stupider and stupider. And to answer your question about the HDMI 1.3 wire, it depends on whether it is a hardware issue or a software issue. The resolution on the other hand is a different matter because the main limiting factor for resolution is RAM (also the RAMDAC's are a limiting factor also) so in other words, the GC, PS2 and XBox could do 1080i or P, its just that they do not have the RAM or raw horsepower to process that res at a smooth framerate, unless they drastically cut down the detail & polys, etc., which just wouldnt cut it in this day and age.
I read that there aren't many HD tv's that can utilize the hdmi 1.3. And I also read that the upgrade to 1.3 could be as simple as a software upgrade in the system. For instance HD dvd stand alones can download an upgrade to be fully hdmi 1.3 complaint. I guess we will know soon enough. how many people this will effect is interesting...being since there are very very few HD Tvs that utilize hdmi 1.3. And the average consumer could care less.
This gives the 360 everything for HD.
Now there are even less reasons to buy the PS3 as 360 offers HDMI to those that need it...
No where on my list for buying a PS3 were HDMI and HD graphics capabilities, that goes for all the folks who don't have a clue about gamming and buy a console for Singstar or Eyetoy, yes there are a few million of them, possibly 10's of millions, there Sony all the way, oh MS is gonna fall hard this time round!
No one cared about FO cables untill it hit main stream and it still is not a mainstream selling poit. If you look at the back of your PS2 FO out put is there. But how many home really needed it or used it?
HDMI is the same. It is only another on of SOny true HD bluffs. Now if they said full HD I could agree with them. It's only fan boy food. They new as a hrd ware company that they could use this to turn heads and snatch it away at the last second.
1- The picture shown above is a plain vanilla DVI to HDMI cable. An XBOX HDMI output product will look nothing like that. In fact, it is most likely going to be a dongle, not a cable.
2- HDMI 1.2 already supports 1080p/60: At 8 bits of color data per channel, the same as DVI. The extra bandwidth in HDMI 1.3 is to support higher color bit-depths and better audio, not to enable 1080p/60.
3- There is technology available (tri-state buffers, I hear) that, *if* MS used it, would allow them to change the pinouts on the connector from analog to digital data on the fly. No conversion from analog to digital needed, children. (The XBOX produces digital data to start with; it just needs to be internally reformatted to meet the HDMI protocols, hence the need for a firmware/dashboard update to enable it, if it is going to happen. If MS is going to do HDMI on existing boxes, this software update is probably the reason why they aren't talking.)
4- There are direct dollar costs associated with HDMI output (licensing, patents, certification) that need to be either added to the console (as Sony did) or to the HDMI cable/dongle. Since MS is not rolling those costs into the console, they *must* be borne by the HDMI solution just ike the HD-DVD drive bears the patent and IP load associated with HD-DVD playback. This means that those of us who don't do HD-DVD or HDMI don't pay for those that do. It also means that a generic monoprice cable isn't an option if they don't want to be sued. PS3 fans take note; you get to use the cheap HDMI cables because you already paid for the IP. Its all part of the reason why the PS3 is $600. TINSTAAFL!
5- A significant portion of existing "HDMI" users actually are using HDMI to DVI cables with an optical cable on the side. (Or maybe plain analog stereo.) This is why I said an XBOX360 HDMI solution is likely to be a dongle or, as pointed out above, have extra ports on it. Just as the VGA cable has an optical port, any digital output cable for 360 will have to have the ability to support audio for DVI users and thus have extra ports.
Bottom line? $100 bucks for digital interfacing is high but not outrageous.
Of course, this assumes it is doable at all or that the market really cares. Almost all quality HD displays already have VGA and VGA right now is the best match for Plasmas (which run at either 1024x768 widescreen or 1366x768 widescreen) and the bulk of LCDs in actual use (1366x768). MS designed the 360 to match up with the displays out there today and the bulk of that installed base is either 720/768 or 1080i. And, finally, the difference betweem 1080i and 1080p isn't all its made up to be; internally the 360 rendering and the display frame buffer are both 1080 (that's why the 360 has always been able to render 1080 games); the only difference is how the data is transmitted to the display.
A 1080 HDMI solution is a nice thing to have but it is hardly the end-all/be-all to image quality.
Besides, when all is said and done, its supposed to be about the games, no?
Shall we move on?
You said it in more words than I would but well put. The difference between 1080i and 1080p is menial. It was just more bait on the hook for PS3 fan boys.
You know, I agree with almost everything you're saying except for one thing. I highly doubt that the 360 games are being internally rendered at 1920 by 1080. Cuz there is way to much aliasing (especially if they are supposedly anti-aliased, which I also doubt except for when being outputted at 640 by 480, well at least for most games), for it to be 1920x1080. Look at COD2, if you output it at 720P you can clearly see that the AA is being shut off, in comparison to when it is being ran at 480P. Which btw also runs at a overall better framerate, as it drops down less, therefore a smoother framerate overall. Also what is up with what looks like some seriously back bilinear filtering going on between the the mip maps, rather than using at least trilinear. Dont even let me get into the lack of Anisotrpic filtering. I think the highest these games are being internally rendered at is 1024 by 768, if not maybe, just maybe 1280 by 720. Which i seriously doubt. But believe are rather just being upscale/converted by the TV encoder chip. But correct me if Im wrong about the rez.
As for the 360 vs Ps3 arguement i like that fact that i can buy onto the 360 what i need and not what a company thinks i want. when i got the 360 i didn't use wirless, a year later i did so i bought the nic, same with the HDMI. my current TV doesn't have an HDMI input, if a year or so down the road i buy one that does it is great i can buy a cable to do it, but as for now i don't have the input so i don't need the cable hence i am not spending money on something i am using.
outside of hardcore A/V people it is still going to be 3-5yrs before HDMI starts to make it into the mainstream, componant imputs started 4 or 5 yrs ago and it isn't until now that everything is using them.
The 100 price tag is outrageous but I don't think they'd be foolish enough to release one that pricey. Although business wise people with HDTV's would mostly buy into that price. But the inbetweens wouldn't. The balance has to be found somewhere lower than 100.
Also I can't believe PS3 didn't come with component. Your gonna have to buy a 30-40 dollar cable with their sku for HD.
Ripoff with no componet cables! You can`t get HD gaming out of the box with ps3 like you can with the 360! Ps3=$600+componet cables=$40+extra controller=$50 all with tax=$700 plus! What a ripoff!
It will sell for a bit less I would guess. This is probably a safe price bet till the actuall price is set ... even still ... no big deal for a nice HDMI cable
I would NEVER buy a $180 monster cable but I would never buy the cheapo $20 cable either.
For those of us with a big $$$ investment into a HDTV, trust me .... another bit of money for a cable to take advantage of our investment is not that big of a deal.
I guess the kids playing on Mommy and Daddy 27" TV at home are a bit upset but hey ..... such is life.
JUST FOR CABLES IN GENERAL (side topic)
Just as a side note .... if anyone is lucky enough to have an "X-CESS CARGO" store close to them, go there for your cables. If you don't know what I am talking about they afe and OVERSTOCK store and sell the BULK extra of supply for very very cheap.
Monster component cables my bud dropped $85 on, I picked them up for $25.
Well whether it's true or not alot of you sound like idiots like usual. But Forza 2 is going to be 60 FPS and if you can only achieve 60 FPS on a HDMI 1.3 cable, than drr Microsoft will be releasing something like this...
wow, $100. the x360 is now as expensive as the ps3! now i really don't know which one to buy for xmas :-\
but for all the people saying that one hdmi cable is better than the other, they are all *pretty much the same*. sure, monster might use more expensive components or higher quality components to make their cables, but hdmi/dvi either works or it doesn't. it's a digital connection, 0's and 1's. so it either works or it doesn't. if you're using analogue connections, it would make a difference (shielded cables, etc), but for digital connections, it shouldn't really matter.
It`s not as expensive as the ps3! You have to buy a componet "OR" HDMI for the ps3 to display HD gaming and movie watching. It` doesn`t come with a HD connection out of the box as some people will tell you! Ps3 comes with regular standard definition AV cables in the box. You still have to spend more money on top of the $600 plus tax that you`re already spending for the ps3!
well, i want to buy one for my brother. he just got an hd tv. here is the break down to what each would cost to make a "hd game system":
ps3: $600 60gb + $10 hdmi cable = $610
x360 = $400 prem + $200 hd-dvd + $100 hdmi cable = $700
i know the x360 is more, but there are more games right now. but i still don't know. sigh.
Just use the HD component cables out of the box. You really don't need HDMI for HD graphics. Unless you don't mind paying top dollar for a marginal upgrade, I just saved you $100.(considering you go the 360 route)
Don't be fooled into buying Monster when these are the same quality just might not look as pretty outside. Last time I checked people don't come over to look at my cabling. lol
The cable shown is not an HDMI cable it's DVI(the end with loads of pins) an HDMI looks the same as the other end. Although you can get HDMI to DVI adapters.
Make me think it's BS!
ok, i'm correcting you (sort of). you're right, the cable pictured is a dvi->hdmi cable. the picture used above is a place holder. if you click the link provided in the news, you will see that there is no official picture yet...
But not completely
You are correct, that is NOT a HDMI end but rather a DVI on one end and HDMI on the other ... so you are correct.
HOWEVER ..... "THIS IS NOT THE ACTUAL CABLE"
It is just a pic that was used by the poster of the topic. The MS cable WILL NOT be blue either .. think about it !!
Think about it and if you own a 360 you should know this ..... NEITHER END is the correct end that goes into the back of the 360 into the A/V slot.
The Actual 360 HDMI cable will have "HDMI" on one end and the "360 A/V" connector on the other side.
One side will look like this
and the other end will look like the current end that goes into your 360. IF you have a 360, as I said, you know what it looks like
Here you go ..
This is the VGA version of the cable, but the connector on the far left is what you are looking at.
Another nice feature (not to get off topic) IS INDEED the VGA cable, the update will also support 1920x1080 over the VGA cable.
So what you may say .... well ...
If you don't have a expensive TV, but have a decent video card and nice PC monitor, you can use your PC monitor and be playing your games RIGHT NOW in HD (720p right now, and 1080p with the upcoming update)
While I wait for my TV to come in, I am playing my 360 on a 21" HD monitor/TV to hold me over ... and it looks TOTALLY AWSOME !!
Doubling data bandwidth over a hardware connection can't be done with software updates unfortunately. If you hook up a PS3's HDMI 1.3 port to a TV's HDMI 1.0/1.2a input you only get the benefits of 1.0/1.2a. This is also true of connecting 1.0/1.2a output to 1.3 input.
Edit: I put this as a reply, but N4G somehow put it down here. I'm responding to Mart's post (13.2)
It's impossible for the 360 to be HDMI 1.3 capapble since the specs for HDMI 1.3 were released after the 360 was released. Firmware updates and new HDMI cables will not make a system 1.3 capable, only hardware updates will. The only time a software update will make s system attain 1.3 is when a device with 1.3 hardware was released so fast that the developers of the device did not have time to develop software for the 1.3 output. After they have had more time, the company then releases the firmware update for the system (I guess syou can see it as like what MS did to make the 360 1080p capable.)
Think about it. If 1.3 was on the software end, why would there be a big deal on whether or not the PS3 would support 1.3 if just any HDMI device can do it? Obviously, then 1.3 is on the hardware side.
As for 1.3 TVs, you are right. They won;t start really showing up on thje market until this spring.
As for HDMI cable cost:
THEY DO NOT cost $100. I have seen monster cables at Circuit City for $120 of which were listed at 1080i for maximum resolution. The truth is that monoprice.com IS THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN THE DIGITAL WORLD. Any audio/videophile knows this. (Really, check some of the AV forums out there. It really is known as “the best kept secret in the digital world.”
I am not here to tell you that all digital cables are the same, because they are not. There is a common misconception that either digital cables work or they don't. The point is, just like with analog cables, there is a difference between digital cables. The difference is in the durability (measured by AWG - referring to the wire gauge of the cable in which the lower the AWG number, the better quality cable) and length of the cable. Pixelation on the screen may be noticed on longer digital cables (generally over 40 feet) and with cables that have a bad AWG.
You can go to monoprioce.com and get a better cable than monster for $100 less. Check it out - a 10' high quality cable capable of 1080p for $20, not $120 capable of 1080i as Monster and retail stores would like you to pay.
I bought two HDMI cables from monoprice.com already - one for my cable box and the other for my long awaited PS3. The one for the cable box is working great with no problems.
Ok... BIG NEWS? ... NOT! The xbox 360 has no plans for HDMI support! That ad at gamestop has been there for months and it hints absolutely nothing.
And.. the cable shown is an hdmi/dvi generic cable.
I doubt that there will be support for another 2 years to allow 1080p future technoligies to be released and allow these tv's to become cheaper.
And... I believe NEC has a hybrid chip available and planed to release 2007 that will allow us to view both formats, which will be an ideal drive over current console solutions.
How about... HDMI 1.3 USB adapter for the 360? Any.. real techies out there able to answer this possibility?
Come on... is it really worth it? Maybe for some, but for me, I'd rather keep my $79.99 and play my games in 1080i (which looks pretty darn good, I must say).
The cable shown looks like a standard DVI to HDMI cable -- nothing at all to do with the 360. GameStop are a joke.
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