GE: Sometimes people complain about the silliest things. It's time to discuss common sense and whether these complaints are legitimate or not.
there is nothing to coplain about this ps4
We don't all share that opinion. No native BC is reason enough to complain for me regarding the PS4, I genuinely see this as an indirect attack on the used games market. What better way to put an end to used game sales than by making them redundant? Many people say to just keep their PS3's, well consoles don't last forever and when given the option of replacing/fixing a PS3 or purchasing a PS4 most people will no doubt choose the new model. @rezzah Im open to discussion on that. If you have any opinions on how BC could be a negative if it was implemented into the PS4's architecture , then by all means shoot.
We already know of the pro for BC, but what of the cons? How can BC affect the PS4 in a negative way?
@rezzah The one big con is cost, it would easily raise the price by as much as $100. They are using entirely different CPU/GPU so the only reasonable way to have BC is by adding in a cell chip. The GPU can probably be handled via a software abstraction layer but the CPU can't. By the time the PS5 rolls around though it would be powerful enough to fully emulate a PS3 in software.
do you have a ps3? ok problem 1 and 2 solved... apparently you're out of problems, so there is nothing for you to complain about...
@InTheZoneAC My PS3 is dead actually, but attempting to invalidate my legitimate concerns by painting them as petty complaints was a nice novelty we don't often see here on N4G... /s @Mounce Im 26 so yeah... Far from a kid. Anyway, I can't honestly be arssed to read your whole barely cohesive and frankly insultive rant, but for someone preaching the complexities of console architecture you sure are overlooking the possibility and ease of implementing a method of emulation, much like the 360 allows with some choice Xbox games. Geez, we're talking about how a next gen console could be better here, I haven't personally wronged you, ya know?.
You think that BC and making 'used games redundant' just happens via Space Magic? Do you know some of the complexities involving with coding new hardware with obsolete or older hardware?.... An idea can be sound but if you have no idea how to do it efficiently, there's no reason to speak on that subject. And to further bring up Backwards Compatibility, while an enjoyable feature for Convenience alone. It wasn't EVER A NORM! PS1/PS2 started it, literally. Cause I truly loved playing my NES games on my Snes.....my NES and SNES games on my N64.....my NES, SNES and N64 games on my Gamecube or Wii... Oh wait...No, you COULDN'T, lol. Xbox started doing it after PS2 could do PS1's so in a nutshell.... Backwards compatibility rose to a power of 'Demand' over a single fucking generation of the PS2's lifetime. It was never around Before it. Which also makes me see how obnoxious some whiners can be. People just came to think on their own that because PS2 could run PS1 games, that PS3 'HAD' to run PS1 and PS2. Sony tried, was more problem than it was worth and scrapped it, everyone moaned. PS4 is going the same route...People moan. I didn't hear ANY FUCKING BITCHING of BC on Nintendos consoles. Why the fuck NOW. Is my question. Just because people have tasted BC, they demand it a Norm?.... I understand the convenience of not having to swap consoles OBVIOUSLY, as a Gamer. However, there goes a time when you should ask, Why the fuck are you whining? For selfish reasons? Making demands to a company to make a feature come true and be a norm because you say so, and if they don't do so, they instantly become a shitty company? I remember being content with having an N64 and wanting to reroute the plugs around to play my SNES or NES instead on the old CRT TV back in the old days. You new generation kids whine too much and are spoiled. I'd say.
@ zerocrossing gaikai will allow for your precious BC on PS4. and your complaints are petty... also 26 is still a kid in gaming years.
why oh why do people care so much about BC? why is it so hard to keep your PS3? why is it so difficult to move on? as said above, the complaints are a bit petty.
I agree PC's can achieve emulation easily just as the you can get them from websites PS4 shud have at least ps1, ps2 emulation
Its ok to complain about BC. But when ps3 offered it, ppl made fun of it. Refuse to buy it, than put sausages in the ps3 and turned it into a grill. Xbox360 doesnt offer BC. It does have very limited BC though. Although it freezes and lags on half the games that is offered as BC. Nobody complained. Gamestop doesnt even accept xbox games as trade ins due to 360's failure of BC. If u wanted to show how important BC was or is. More ppl should of bought the ps3 when they offered it, and should not buy any 360s and complained about the lack of 360's BC. Since gamers failed to do those 2 things, making a BC complaint now about a future console is redundant.
Well, lets keep it simple, how badly do you want backwards compatibility? Adding BC to the PS4 would mean for Sony to include the PS3's cell chip into the PS4, effectively raising the price. So how bad do you want BC? Bad enough that you wouldnt mind the price hike for the PS4? If you dont mind the potential $100+ on backwards compatibility, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind paying for the games again on the cloud.
For now i have a few complaints: - No backwards compatibility for PS3 games. - No backwards compatibility for PSN games. I bought those games, and now i can't play them on future consoles. This just tells me to avoid at all cost purchasing PSN content because it will not be compatible for future consoles down the road (PS4, PS5, PS6...) - No support for PS3 dualshock controller. I have 2 controllers, what the hell am i going to do with them.
PS2 BC was built into launch PS3, so everyone complained it was too expensive and it was removed. In complete honesty, how often do you play your old PS2 games on your PS3? Maybe every few months dig out MGS3 or maybe an old Burnout or GTA? In relative terms it's a huge gain for the consoles future, by sticking with the CELL for the sake of allowing you to play old games, devs would still complain about awkward programming and we'd still be dealing with terrible ports from certain publishers. We've heard this argument about BC at the start the PS3's generation, this is no different, in 3-4 years time when we have nearly as many PS4 games as we do old PS3 title, no one will care. The same goes for your Dualshock 3's. Have ever as much as ONCE felt the urge to use a dualshock 2 on your PS3? Or did you keep playing with your original Dualshock on the PS2? I know i haven't and i've been on my PS3 since launch day.
1. PSN games could be streamed to your console via Gaikai using your PSN account 2. No new console (only like the WiiU) supports the previous consoles controller. Were you mad that you ccouldn't use your old Xbox and PS2 controller for your 360 and PS3? 3. Maybe a system could be set in place where you put your pS3 game in the system then it could be detected and streamed onto your system via Gaikai They did say they would be using the service to stream PS1-3 games on PSN.
@ferm Then don't buy a PS4. Rather than complain and fill the interwebs with negativity, just don't buy one. Period.
The reason why you can't use the DS3 with the PS4 is because the DS4 has new stuff added to it. What if a PS4 game required the touch pad for instance and you were using a DS3?
Why are PSN games in a different category from Ps3 games? They're just cheaper Ps3 games. They're not somehow different in their coding architecture. PSN games == PS3 games. No difference. If ps3 games can't be run, then no sh1t psn games can't, either. People were in some shock thinking that PSN games are magically different because of their price. The Blu-Ray disc isn't the problem, duh, the ps3 coding is. Doesn't matter if the ps3 game is on a disc or downloaded, it's still a ps3 game! Gamers need to learn what games even are and how they're made.
I'm dissapointed about PS3 games and even more disappointed about PSN games, but in the end I don't want a higher overall cost to make them work. If they can make them available via Gaikai that will be good enough for me. As for the PS3 dualshock, they've always had new controllers with the system. If you have 2 controllers use them on your PS3. If you get rid of your PS3, get rid of the controllers with it.
Make this list after the system is released! It would make more sense
we still don't know 100% info on ps4 so let's wait and see, everything sony has shown has done nothing but proven that ps4 is gonna be a power house system and as usual will get a lot of support from sony's 1st-2nd party studios
Come to think of it, Xbox1 only received praise for its similarity to a PC. That you could get updates. And now years later the development community has taken to releasing unfinished games and patching - trying to - after the fact.
The only complaint that I currently have is the ps3 fanboys and their blog "dramatic" anti pc headlines. They are purposely making headlines and stupid blog articles, submitting them to N4g to rile up pc guys who will not stand for their ignorance. Then when you set them straight, the SDF comes in and bubbles you down and disagrees galore. Its really sad.
You don't actually believe all that bs you just wrote right?
If you cant see it, then, wow!!
I think he believes it. What a shame.
Maybe you switched the roles lol XD
I just bubbled you down for the irony. Lol #yolo #swag #fornicatetheauthorities
I think you're reading too much into things. Most console gamers are pretty clueless when it comes to PC gaming, there is no denying that, so if people are spreading misinformation it's probably not intentionaly. If you see an article and absolutely must "set them straight" use some tact if you value your bubbles.
I dont "value" bubbles per se. They are just bubbles on a website. I dont have an alternate account because, lets be honest, does it really take all that? You cant put forth the facts without being mis-labled. And most of us mainly PC guys like the ps4 and the ps3, I have a ps3 and will be getting a ps4 but not at launch. But when articles come and say the ps4 will destroy pc gaming for the next 5 years, or pc gamers are jealous of ps4, or ps4 has a supercharged cpu, we have to set the record straight. I would expect the same thing from a ps3 guy if a 360 guy comes in and says Uncharted looks like crap. What?
PC fanboys can be equally as clueless. They only have one point of view and it's their own. Their biggest downfall is a lack of understanding where others come from and why their preferences may be different. They often just scoff at it or talk down to people as if self proclaiming themselves geniuses and above other gamers. That is why overall all gamers (decent PC guys included) look to PC fanboys as the worst of the worst. The way they act and talk themselves up you would think they could control themselves and be civil or just ignore the "nonsense" overall. Instead they force themselves into articles and comments solely to "correct" people and put them back in their "place" as if it's somehow their duty as the "PC master race". I used quotes because all these terms are used very loosely and often with no context attached, just "facts" if you will. For a group of people who are supposed to be high and mighty, above all other gamers and genius tech experts, they sure come off as petty, arogant (in a bad way) and narrow minded. They talk down and attempt to correct industry vets who actually design and make these consoles and games or even now compact user friendly PCs. Sorry maybe I am wrong and every PC fanboy is a CEO, CFO, Lead Programmer, Lead Game Designer, Head of R&D for every major tech company, PHD, head of Marketing, and own the highest end PC equipment ever designed as of today. I guess you could say PC fanboys are often living in their own fantasy world where everything revolves around them and pleasing them. The second it doesn't or attention is placed on something else they feel a need spout off a bunch of negative or "but look at the facts (opinions)" nonsense. PC fanboys just need to lighten up a bit, accept other gamers and maybe once and a while just put down the keyboard and keep their thoughts to themselves when the topic isn't even geared towards them. Why they even show up to half the articles I don't understand. Its like they enjoy being pessimistic and attempting to knock others down a peg for their own enjoyment/well being/peace of mind.
As I mentioned in another thread PC is more powerful but devs are not coding for it. If this were the case then you would see games and techniques which'd be completely unique/unplayable/unseen on consoles and the genres would be further advanced but instead you are playing the exact same game with a different wrapping. Console gamers can still play games like Crysis 3 and other than lower graphics/resolution and framerates their is no difference. Power is not graphics. Again, PC's have more power but games are not and have not been made to take advantage of this. PC games will likely be forced to continue to evolve with the push of new consoles.
What really sad is that you honestly believe that its ps3 fanboy. Half the time you people dont even bother to read the article. When they say ps4 will out perform most PC for year to come obviously they don't mean gaming rig. Think about how many people own PCs what percentage of the people who own PC are gamers. I pretty much guarantee its less than half. Your average family will most likely spend $400 to $600 on a PC and keep for years never even bothering to upgrade it. So the ps4 will out perform most PC cuz most people buy cheap low spec PC. There are PCs still being made to this day that only come with 2 gigs of ram. You PC fanboy need to stop being so sensitive and actually think about what you're reading.
Not having any native BC with PS3, PS2 and PS One games is a valid complaint for customers to make. Especially to those who invested large amounts of time and money in their digital purchases.
so you want Sony to add this in ps4 and then have a very high price tag at launch. and of course hear people bitch to holy hell that the ps4 is too much just like they did with the ps3.
sony could sell 2 models, 1 with and 1 without? make everyone happy?
keep your PS3.
1. No BC support 2.No DS3 support but PSMove works? 3. Too much social media stuff 4. Touch pad will be as usless as the sixaxis 5. DS4 looks cheap
The last 3 ponts are just your opinion...
What looks cheap about the DualShock 4? The LED lighbar? The rubber grips? Polished shoulder buttons? You are grasping at straws son
Although I agree with you, I don't think the DS4 has rubber grips. Look at the pics again.
I don't understand. What detriment would the social media stuff have on your experience with a PS4? Its OPTIONAL. You don't HAVE to use it.
if you are complaining about backwards compatibility , move own. The games are old now. You're telling me after seven long years of ps3 , that you are angry that you can play old ps3 or ps2 and ps1 games on ps4. Games are moving up. Ps4 needs to be a fresh experience, not the main console to play ps1 games on. Were you mad that Dreamcast didn't play sega genesis games too, if so keep your old system and please stop with the complaining. No one is forcing you to buy ps4 but if you decide to , then welcome to the next generation. If you have downloaded and bought a lot for ps3 no one is required to meet your demands to move it to ps4. Stop acting like babies
Lol, who complains it's just a PC? All video game systems could be considered "computers", only now that the technology is converging more obviously that we can make easier comparisons. People will certainly build PCs based off the specs of this system for a cheaper price, but that won't stop everyone from purchasing a new game console. Some people just prefer consoles.
Well people will try to build a PC with similar specs, but just try and find a motherboard that will accept GDDR5 (or something of comparable speed)as the main system ram.
Not for nothing but Samsung is dropping their ddr4 modules soon so..ya that would definitely speed things up comparatively to gddr5 and most likely without the extra latency
It's not all about GDDR5... DDR3 is perfect for the processors on the market right now which in a gaming rig will be dedicated straight to the processor and not split between the CPU and GPU. Every graphics card on the market that's worth even mentioning uses a dedicated amount of GDDR5 and the higher on the list you go the faster the bandwidth is and that's strictly dedicated to the GPU. If Microsoft sticks with the split architecture which is being rumored you wouldn't see a difference in the graphics if say they did 4gbs DDR3 for the processor and 4gbs GDDR5 for the GPU... that would be a much better option in my opinion because you would actually be able to get more out of the processor. Even 4gbs of GDDR5 would be overkill but it would allow for larger open area's but it's hard to pinpoint the exact gains from it considering if they implement tessellation it would be a mute gain.
The only problem I have with the ps4 is it not having backwards compatibility. Most people say in the defense is that it drives up the cost of the system. While that is true, it is a stupid defense because it doesn't cost as much as people say. Yeah, I can understand with the ps3 having the cell and being different from traditional development that it could be a problem with the ps4 but there is no reason why they can't add ps2 and ps1 BC. Look at the ps3, they took out the BC there and it still stayed really high for years so it wasn't BC that made the ps3 600 bucks. The WiiU is fully backward compatible and the system is dirt cheap, the xbox 360 (while limited) has backward compatibility without a problem. Sony just wants us to re-buy the ps3 games we already own through Gaikai, and to the people who say it hasn't been confirmed yet just look at the facts. Sony payed a ton of money for Gaikai and they are a business, they need their money back plain and simple. Lastly to the people who say "just keep your ps3". While that is a true option, it's also a dumb defense. One systems don't last forever and the ps3 won't be on the shelves forever so you can't rely on a ps3 living forever just to play the older games on. Two, backwards compatibility is a convince that we deserve. People, and a majority of the people who will buy a ps4 who own a ps3, either don't want clutter in their house of old unused systems or can't have it because apartments or houses may not be big enough for the extra stuff especially if they have kids around. Also there are a lot of people who will want a ps4 who may HAVE to trade in their ps3 in order to purchase a ps4 but want to enjoy older games. Those reasons could be anything from a parent making them trade in for it, or someone who may not be able to financially pay full price (and I'm not talking about they are barely affording rent or food either, there are plenty of people who make rent and utilities out there just fine but anything extra is rough, so your saying they can't have a hobby or do anything because of that?) No backwards compatibility is a stupid decision. If Gaikai isn't free (which it probably won't be) then a lot of people are going to loes their entire collection of ps3 games or just simply pass on the ps4 until it's cheaper and has a larger library. Nintendo was smart to keep the wii games compatible and they went a step farther and kept the expensive controllers too (which obviously was needed for wii games) but usable on the Wiiu games was good. Like I said, that is my only problem right now with the ps4. The next one would be price but Sony hasn't announced that and I highly doubt they would make the mistake of pricing it high like the ps3 and seriously hurting themselves. Ps4 will be expensive but I have faith Sony will look to make it affordable for the masses maybe around if not rivaling the WiiU and next gen xbox.
Imagine if the ps4 was BC and you got rid of your ps1, 2, and 3 to save space. Yay I can play all my games on ps4. Ps4 breaks, I can play no gamez.
Agree with you No BC=No Buy, at least for me. Maybe later, but I doubt it, will probably skip it and wait for ps4 emulator.
Seriously? How often have you played PS2 or PS1 games on your PS3? Honestly? I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice, but the last time I put a PS2 game in my PS3 was years ago. I still haven't even caught up with the PS3 games I want to play. I think people that refuse to buy it because of that one reason are really just making some self-righteous point about nothing.
i am another No BC= No buy @thedecay right now i have game saves of soul reaver, dragon quest, chrono trigger, MGS, FF12, etc and yes i still play them
@kris Then why don't you keep your PS3. It will be worth next to nothing once PS4 arrives so why in the world would you sell it?
Honestly, no troling at all. I have all MGS games, FF games, and huge collection of rpg games from ps1 and ps2,still play them from time to time. Hell I even play some SNES rpgs on emulator, Crono Triger, Zelda, Secret of Mana ect. So on average I would say I play through one old game per month. And in between all those old and curent gen games, I often find time to play some classics for short times,you can alwas have a quick 15min of some mario, crash, probotector, street fighter, metal slug... and the list goes on and on.
@ delboy The PS4 will be antiquated by the time someone makes an emulator.
You're making an awful lot of assumptions. You say the cost of including BC is a stupid defense because it doesn't drive up the cost "as much as people say'. How much does it add to the cost? $30? $50? How much is too much? You make it sound like PS1 and PS2 compatiblity isn't happening. How do you know that? Dave Perry said at the announcement "PS3 games are not natively supported". He said nothing about PS1 and PS2 games. You say the PS3 was expensive even after BC was taken out. You know, Sony dropped $200 off the price in under two years, which coincides with them taking out PS2 support. It doesn't matter if it remained expensive. It was a hell of a lot more expensive when it did have BC. You say Sony just wants us to rebuy games we already own through Gaikai. That's just something you assumed. You act like Gaikai is intended for the sole purpose of reselling us games we already have. Fact is, you have no idea what will be offered. I'm pretty sure Sony has bigger plans for Gaikai tech than trying to get you to rebuy a handful of PS3 games. You say "keep your PS3" is a dumb defense. I kept my PS1. I kept my PS2. So far, that "dumb defense" has worked out alright. If one of them dies, it's not hard to replace. A PS2 isn't hard to find. And I can still play PS1 games on my PS3. And for all we know, I might be able to play PS1 and PS2 games on my PS4. Combine that with the fact that PS3s will easily be available for at least another six or seven years, and I'm not exactly sweating it out. You mention clutter as a reason. Really? It's a PS3, not a refrigerator. And needing to trade in a PS3 to afford a PS4? GameStop will give you $110 in credit for a 500GB super slim, and that's after a bonus 30% trade-in value promo they have going on. You'll get beans for a lesser model a year from now, especially if Sony drops the price. If you need that kind of money to afford a PS4, you probably shouldn't be buying a PS4 to begin with. If money is that much of a problem, trade in your games too and BC won't even be an issue. And affordability via trade-in is a dumb point anyway. It's asking for Sony to add BC... and increase the price... so that you can trade in your system... to reduce the price.
i agree with it all on the video but the cd's were great in the older consoles for things like when you do ur homework for school or doing stuff around the house...it made it so u would not have to have the big cd players...but still its not something to whine about....i have my money for the ps4 and will hopefully be playing mine day 1
I would say the only thing I could see complaining about is lack of true backwards compatibility. We haven't seen the console itself, so cant really complain about that. No price to complain about yet either. The idea that it's close to PC architecture as a negative blows my mind, that is why the Xbox 360 got so many great versions of 3rd party games, you want to make it easier on programmers, not tougher.
the cpu is too slow the gpu could be better no bc thats my 3 *totally agree that ps4 should play ps1 and ps2 games upscaled to 1080p with anti aliasing, if my pc can do it with pcsx2, the ps4 should too heck my wifes 2 year old laptop can play ps2 games in 1080p http://www.youtube.com/watc... (thats running on a $170 gpu from 2 years ago, if the ps4 is so powerful, why can't it do that????)
Im tired of the BC argument too. It truly is ludicrous. Seriously, anyone who buys a next gen system to play old games is in need of help. If you love the old games so much, then play them on your old system. This argument is purely derived from convenience, and as we know today, everyone under the age of 22 is lazy and entitled to everything being as easy as possible. Walk it off, kidies, and grow up. The new system is a PS4. It's not a PS3.5 or a PLAYSTATION EMULATION SYSTEM. PS4 will play.......wait for it.........PS4 games.
My main complaint is that I won't be able to transfer my PSN purchases. I've spent aboout $800 on it. But what I'm gonna do is buy the white 500gb slim, transfer my account over and give it to my kids when the PS4 come out. Problem solved. That's it..I'm looking forward to everything else. I mean I can't really complain about something I haven't had time with.
Complaint 1: If the ps4 was able to play ALL Playstation generation games (emulation), then it would've been an even better selling point. Even if it's temporary, like what they did with the ps3, it would've been an amazing feature. Super Playstation 4! It has the ability to play ALL PLAYSTATION GAMES! Again, it would have been amazing. Complaint 3: Audio Cds? That was really a "major" complaint? My own complaint are the games. I just want to see more of the launch line up before pledging myself to getting a ps4. That complaint will be answered by E3 though...So I don't really have any other complaints.
Backwards compatibility was a nice feature back in the day but now it is time we put it to rest. A game console should stand on it's own. I bought a PS3 to play PS3 games, not to play PS2 games or PS1 games. Yeah it was a nice perk but it was not mandatory. If I wanted to play old games I would play them on older systems; that's why I have a Dreamcast, N64, Gamecube, Sega Genesis, exc. As for the audio cds? I agree, who cares. CD's have been obsolete ever since late 2005. It's easy to purchase the MP3's and put them on a cheap MP3 player.
BC is nice but not necessary. If you really wanted to play older games, you'd buy the appropriate system. Having the whole Sony library playable in one box is nice but it would expensive and the games most likely wouldn't play the same as they did on their original system. Besides are you really buying a PS4 to not play PS4 games? Why spend the money on a new console to play old games? Doesn't make sense. I hardly ever go back and play old games on consoles. Its a cool nostalgia trip every now and and then, and then PS1 or PS2 goes back into storage. Playing older games is sometimes harder because of the control schemes from the old days just don't work well in the present. Graphics never bother me, its the stiff controls.
No BC also a complaint of mine, but only in the short term because until a new console starts pumping out the quality games which can take upto 2 years, like the PS3, it's very nice to have last gen games to play. Such is the case right now with my PS Vita, there's lots of games I have already bought, but now we are in a period where there just isnt enough new games to buy at a regular rate (barely one new game a week). So Im glad I can still download and play the about 30 games I purchased digitally for my PspGo and play them. Its possible that Sony is only teasing possible streaming BC, but then not deliver on it, because by the time PS4 reaches 2yrs and has a lot of good games under it's belt, then could turn around and say BC is not needed because we are now playing more ps4 games than older games. I hate that. Sony has had a reputation of having BC and now they are at a point where they pass it off as irrelevant. Thats why people are dissappointed.
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