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Submitted by Smurf1 501d ago | news

PS4 graphics "phenomenal", huge RAM makes innovation likely - Analyst

GC: "PS4's massive amount of available RAM is something that the industry has been cheering ever since its announcement." (Industry, PS3, PS4, Sony)

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arbitor365   501d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(4)
bullymangLer   501d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(5)
IaMs12  +   501d ago
Its great that they are going to be able to do a lot more now with next generation consoles but its also frustrating at the same time that the PC has had these capabilities for so long and are rarely utilized. Oh well, hopefully they will now with next gen.
rl_pearson  +   501d ago | Well said
"the PC has had these capabilities for so long"

Feel free to show us these PCs with DDR5 memory for the entire system like the PS4 has.

The amount of RAM in the PS4 is no big deal. It is the standard roughly 16x increase that every Playstation has had:

PS1 2/3 megs
PS2 32 megs - 2 * 16
PS3 512 megs - 32 * 16
PS4 8 gigs - 512 * 16

The memory speed is the huge power/performance feature for the PS4 not the amount of RAM.

Memory speed is one of the major reasons why the PS3's graphics looked so far, far beyond anything the Xbox 360 put out this gen despite the fact that both systems had 512 megs of RAM to work with in games like Uncharted 1,2,3, Killzone 2,3, Gran Turismo 5, etc.
#3.1 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(40) | Disagree(58) | Report | Reply
stragomccloud  +   501d ago
Gddr 5 isn't as good for cpus a ddr 3. By the way, no such thing as ddr5 ram. Ddr 4 will be coming out on pc by 2014 by the way.

Please don't talk about specs if you're a console gamer, it makes you look bad.

Just enjoy the awesome games that come out and stop comparing..... Specs or otherwise.
T900  +   501d ago | Well said
"Feel free to show us these PCs with DDR5 memory for the entire system like the PS4 has."

1. GDDR 5 RAM may offer high bandwidth, but comes with high Latency. CPUs dont work well with high latency and they cant really use such high bandwidth. Which is why PC has DDR 3 RAM for the CPU. It provides low latency and it provides enough bandwidth.

2. PC does have GDDR 5 RAM, since the last 4 years or so. Its the GPU that requires high bandwidth, Latency doenst matter to GPUs. Hence PC has GDDR 5 RAM that provides way more bandwidth than the one offered for the PS4, plus its dedicated ie not shared with the CPU. One can argue there are benefits to that too.

Hence PC gets best of both worlds, Low latency RAM for the CPU. Much higher bandwidth for the GPU.

How the PS4s CPU reacts to the high Latency of GDDR 5 is still anyones guess.

"The memory speed is the huge power/performance feature for the PS4 not the amount of RAM."

The memory speed is about equal to mid range GPUs of today and its going to be shared with the CPU, its not dedicated. Hence one may argue even midrange GPUs today get more bandwidth than what the PS4s GPU will be getting.

Edit: Just for your reference, high end desktop CPUs from Intel which cost about 300-1000usd dont seem to be able to take advantage of memory bandwidth beyond 20GB/s not in games anyways. One would have to question how far the PS4s low performance mobile CPU that is of no match to Intels desktop CPUs will take advantage of all that bandwidth, it just might end up suffering from the Latency.
#3.1.2 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(45) | Disagree(40) | Report
Feline_Pornographer  +   501d ago
> why the PS3's graphics looked so far, far beyond anything the Xbox 360

It really is amazing that something so obvious about console hardware performance, memory speed, is unable to be grasped by Microsoft.

Console engine programming is almost entirely based off of stream style processing where latency is of no consequence. Console engineers know how to build their engines in such a manner that the next data chunk is constantly being fetched while the current data chunk is being processed.

Disc->Harddrive->Main Memory->Cache

Everything being loaded asynchronously to the next stage of processing.

This is why PC game engineers like Carmack and others cry constantly about porting their old PC style engines to console hardware. They are use to just dumping everything into slow main memory once at level load time and work on the complete data set all at once. If their engine runs too slow then it is your problem and you need to go out and spend large amounts of money buying a faster PC to run their crap code.
#3.1.3 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(22) | Disagree(22) | Report
Zhipp  +   501d ago
PCs don't need GDDR5 ram for the entire system. It would actually be detrimental to system performance due to it's high latency. That's why you only use GDDR5 in the graphics card. Anything that the PS4 can do, a high end PC can do as well, which is why I really don't think we're gonna be seeing much difference between PS4 games and PC games next gen--even with it's magical 8gb-GDDR5. There's also the fact that, due to the PS4's architecture, PCs will most likely be the lead development platform going into next gen.

Also, you exaggerate the difference between PS3 graphics and 360. PS3 games look better, but not "far, far" better as you say.
LessThan2Tflops  +   501d ago
It's not ddr5, gdd5 is just a modification of ddr3 that gives better bandwidth but worse lantency
Feline_Pornographer  +   501d ago
"It's not ddr5, gdd5 is just a modification of ddr3 that gives better bandwidth but worse lantency"

LOL...

The 'g' just stands for 'graphics'...

Gotta love the 'PC gamers' trying to pretend to be graphics hardware experts.

"PCs don't need GDDR5 ram for the entire system. It would actually be detrimental to system performance due to it's high latency."

Yes, PC programmers do suck and, yes, their crappy code would not run well with the incredibly high performance PS4 ram. PC hardware is designed for the lowest common denominator - that is why PCs require such a huge amount of system memory, video memory, etc to compete with console engineers running higher quality engines on less expensive hardware.
#3.1.6 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(21) | Disagree(38) | Report
gamernova  +   501d ago
Dude, there is no DDR5 memory. Are you insane? If you mean GDDR then that is a different story. I dislike when know nothing console gamers (not all of you, some do understand) think that the ps4 is somehow a tech marvel with specs that have no been reached. We do not want shared GDDR5 memory. Why would we? PC gamers (well, speaking for myself) have a graphics card with GDDR5 memory just for gaming. We do not have to share with anything. That is called a dedicated graphics card. We even have additional RAM on the side of os and things like that. rl_pearson, you have to do some research. Do not talk about specs if you don't know what they mean.

Why would PC gamers want to have to share an entire system on a small amount of RAM?

We have things in our systems dedicated for each specific thing. This no only gives (well, the ones with nice set ups) an earth shattering lead in graphics and overall performance but it leaves the system open for future upgrades as we see fit.

I agree, it is a nice upgrade for console gamers and one that will benefit us all but do not talk about shared GDDR5 memory like it is actually a good thing.
Cupid_Viper_3  +   501d ago | Well said
Every time you guys start harping on about specs, I'll just nicely repeat it over and over again.

OPTIMIZATION, OPTIMIZATION, OPTIMIZATION

1200 HP Corvette will not beat a 600 HP Formula 1 car on track. The F1 car is OPTIMIZED for circuit racing, The Corvette wasn't.

So please stop comparing console specs to PC Specs, it's just not the same. A PC with 512 MB RAM will not run Uncharted as it is on the PS3.
reynod  +   501d ago
@Cupid_Viper_3

"OPTIMIZATION, OPTIMIZATION, OPTIMIZATION"

Thats all we hear console gamers say lol. If console optimization is so good then why is it current consoles get out performed by Low end PCs of today. PCs that might be costing 500usd.

Even back when PS3 was released a PC equipped with a 8800GTX outperformed it. Same is the case today. A 6 year old PC equipped with a 8800GTX will outperform a console even today. So where is the console optimization?

We have seen games like Skyrim, Battlefield 3, Farcry 3, Mafia 2 literally lag on consoles. Where was the optimization then?

Atleast on PC when something is wrong and the devs arent doing anything (such was the case with Skyrim PS3), the community patches the game itself or PC gamers do have the option to upgrade to better hardware so they can play the game, where as console gamers are left with no OPTIONS.

Just as today many of them are crying about not having BC for their machine, Its because console gamers lack OPTIONS, OPTIONS, OPTIONS.
LessThan2Tflops  +   501d ago
@feline

What did I say tha is wrong? Gddr5 is based on ddr3, look it up . It's nothing new and have been in graphic cards for years . Gddr5 has worse lantecny than ddr3,
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Vicodin  +   501d ago
.
#3.1.11 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(6) | Report
LessThan2Tflops  +   501d ago
@vicodin

No gddr5 and ddr5 are not the same thing. Gddr5 uses ddr3 technology, ddr5 doesn't exist
Cupid_Viper_3  +   501d ago
@ reynod

Clearly you don't understand what the word means.

"op·ti·mi· ;za·tion [op-tuh-muh-zey-shuhn] Show IPA
1.
the fact of optimizing; making the best of anything.
2.
the condition of being optimized.
3.
Mathematics . a mathematical technique for finding a maximum or minimum value of a function of several variables subject to a set of constraints, as linear programming or systems analysis."

I don't know how else I can explain what that means to you than the example I gave you earlier with the cars.

lol Options? lol, like I'm not typing this from a computer? How dense are you son?
#3.1.13 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(19) | Disagree(9) | Report
cayleee  +   501d ago
@Cupid_Viper_3

So now Consoles are 600HP Formula 1 cars, While PCs are 1200HP Corvettes.

Stop making yourself look bad.

Despite all the optimization low end Pcs are in fact outperforming consoles. No reason to believe that will change even with the arrival of the next consoles.
aquamala  +   501d ago
I can't believe I'm still reading posts of people that think gddr5 is ddr5, how long are people going to stay uninformed?

let me google it for you

"Like its predecessor, GDDR4, GDDR5 is based on DDR3 SDRAM memory"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

and @faline yes PC gamers that build their own PCs would know a lot more about memory,CPUs and GPUs than your average console gamer
#3.1.15 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(8) | Report
bourg  +   501d ago
Are you guys serious?

DDR5 and GDDR5 are the same thing. The memory is called GDDR5 if it is used exclusively in graphics cards and DDR5 if it is used for an entire system like the PS4.
aquamala  +   501d ago
@bourg

no not the same thing at all, show me the specs of ddr5, it doesn't exist. ddr4 won't be out til the end of the year. gddr5 is just ddr3 with a pre fetch buffer.

oh of course your account is just created 8 minutes ago, why you already used up all your bubbles?
#3.1.17 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(4) | Report
cayleee  +   501d ago
PS4's total shared Memory bandwidth will be 176GB/s

Mid range GPUs of today are already pushing 192GB/s (Dedicated).

By the time PS4 is out, Midrange GPUs will be pushing 250GB/s (Dedicated)

PS4's memory really isnt anything special when compared to PCs. It has to be shared with the CPU, which will just compromise how much the GPU gets.
#3.1.18 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(14) | Report
Dead_Cell  +   500d ago
Virgins.
kikizoo  +   500d ago
"Even back when PS3 was released a PC equipped with a 8800GTX outperformed it. Same is the case today. A 6 year old PC equipped with a 8800GTX will outperform a console even today."

Amnesia ! show us 2006 to 2009 games withy better graphics than unchartedµ2, gow3, etc

COnsole always have better games and graphics for 4,5 years, before pc can take back the graphic crown (with only few games, and only some pc)...and don't dream, specs and resolution are not enough to make beautifull graphisms.

By the way, why all the unsecure pc fanboyz with costy graphic cards are always making the same mistake at launch ? (after that, they generaly disapear
#3.1.20 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(12) | Report
T900  +   500d ago
@Kikizoo

Check out BF3 running on 8800GTX. 720p Medium settings. 64 player MP. I bet it could probably handle 1080p with some tweaking.

6 years later its still playing games beyond what the consoles are managing.

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Way back when it released Crysis 1 was still new, i remember playing crysis 1 on a 8800GTX played the game in 1080p medium settings. Check today Consoles barely manage any Crysis game in 720p

Crysis > Uncharted or GOW period.
#3.1.21 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(12) | Report
"Feel free to show us these PCs with DDR5 memory for the entire system like the PS4 has. "

Feel free to show us these PS4s with DDR5 memory for the entire system like you say the the PS4 has.

Also how much of this memory is used for OS and other things?

Also dedicated memory > shared memory. And ddr4 ram and gddr6 next year.

Huge bandwidth and high latency through the whole system is the trade off but that will be fixed next year.

http://computerstories.net/...

Also ps4 has l3 cache shared for all 8 core which will slow it down even more.

PS4 is awsome but many don't want it to be an console they want it to be a 2025 high end pc. Please don't get in a power match with pc's you will lose if not at launch soon.

We have been through this before.

I hope killzone just get to 60fps. Either way I am getting a ps4 but let the power trip go please.

Games will look amazing! But it's a mobile cpu with a shrunken gpu to fit on the chip. Still ps4 ftw!
#3.1.22 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(1) | Report
Rageanitus  +   500d ago
ummm GDDR5 isnt it for video and not main memor ram.

I think hardcore console fanboys are gonna be in for a shocker when the console actually gets released at the end of thise year.

You have to remember consoles are static hardware configuration, and PC's are NOT.

The specs have already been determined in the background, and I am sure they had it set about a year ago.
loulou  +   500d ago
and RAM is going to be all that sony fanboys go on about for the next 5-6 years ffs
profgerbik  +   500d ago
Umm it is GDDR5 not DDR5.. -_-... and yea PC have had that for about 2 years now.. with just about every graphics card available.

It may not be set up the same as the PS4 but PC has indeed had that type of graphics memory for a while now.

I am not bragging or even talking shit but I am just trying to inform you or others who seem to be confused.

Do I really need to post links? You could simply look online at most of the graphics cards for PC and notice many of them all have been using GDDR5, these cards have been out for a about close to 2 years now if not more.

http://www.newegg.com/Produ...

Pretty old ATI with GDDR5

http://www.newegg.com/Produ...

What do you know the Asus Mars III even has 8GB of GDDR5 in one single card...

http://wccftech.com/asus-ma...

PS4 will be great but people need to stop being idiots about it is all I am saying. That is not even including using Cross Fire or SLI. You could quadruple that graphics memory if you wanted to.

I have seen decked out PC's running two CPU's and 4 graphics cards all at once not including the actual RAM in a computer can far exceed the PS4.. I am sorry but the PS4 just isn't going to be doing that or else it would be expensive as shit.

What kind of worries me is the PS4 only has GDDR5. Also I want to know what the graphics memory is running at internally, I know it is 8GB but graphics memory in a way works like a OS in a sense. I wonder what the internal memory is in the graphics chip.

Every GPU has an internal memory. For instance you could buy many 2GB graphics cards but not everyone one will perform the same because some will come with a lower internal memory. Internal memory in graphics I know is far more important than the graphics memory they show. Some may come with only 2GB at 128-bits or 2GB at 256-bit, 2GB at 512-bit and so on.

There reason I say it like an OS, you all know an OS can run at 32 bits and 64 bits and clearly there is a jump graphically between the two. In the same sense a graphics card with a higher internal memory will outperform the same card with the same graphics memory with a lower internal memory if that isn't too confusing.

It is kind of misleading how they label these graphic cards, it how they sell them most people just pay attention to the graphics memory.. I learned that ages ago when buying a graphics card it is important to pay attention to the internal memory size first then the graphics memory second.
#3.1.25 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report
profgerbik  +   500d ago
Sorry for any spelling errors and the skipped words.

I have bad habit of thinking I wrote something but I guess I tried typing too fast and like a blind idiot just skimmed by but you should definitely get my point.

I guess I used all my edit time writing that second part. So bare with the errors at the end, there are a plenty.
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Autodidactdystopia  +   500d ago
profgerbik

I think the word you're looking for when you say "internal memory"

Is "memory bus width"

absolutely correct a card with a 384bit bus width is usually outperformed by a wide margin with a card that has a larger 512bit bus width
ichimaru  +   500d ago
"Memory speed is one of the major reasons why the PS3's graphics looked so far, far beyond anything the Xbox 360 put out this gen despite the fact that both systems had 512 megs"

bro, you know the 360 used unified RAM , and the PS3 used spilt RAM right(256 for gpu256 for CPU). That was one of the few advatages Microsoft had over sony last gen. Unified RAM is supposedly more practicle in Consoles, as they can access data from the same RAM pool. This is also why I hope the rumors of the 720 using split RAM are false. Sony got it right with their Unified architecture for the PS4
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Amsterdamsters  +   500d ago
This is in reply to T900...looks like a lot of fanboys that don't understand tech at all have down voted your comment. I'm sure that it's because it doesn't correlate with all the hype they've bought into.
fr0sty  +   500d ago
Pc's have had gddr5 for a while. However, they usually only have a few gb's of it, unless you're spending as much on the gpu as the ps4 will cost. Then you have to factor in that even with the latest pci express connection, you still don't get cpu to gpu bandwidth like ps4 enjoys since both are on the same die in ps4, reducing cpu's ability to aid the gpu and vice versa in a pc. You do have more latency with gddr5, but video games aren't as latency dependent as they are bandwidth dependent, so for a game console it doesn't matter as much. Then you have operating system overhead, which will be much less in a dedicated console than in a pc that has many more background processes running, and api's that don't let you code "to the metal" as much on a pc. Then you have split memory pools, which increases bandwidth for pc but also gives ps4 the advantage of being able to dynamically allocate more vram if needed by it's gpu. Ps4's os is rumored to reserve 1.5gb's, leaving 6.5 for cpu and vram. Since pc games are designed to run on midrange systems for max compatibility, I see ps4 keeping up with pc's that cost hundreds more to build for a little while when you consider all of the above. Each has it's advantages, but ps4 is a very capable system fine tuned for gaming. Not an office machine retrofitted to be able to play videogames.
Ju  +   500d ago
GDDR5 is so bad for CPUs that AMD is actually releasing a APU using it: Kaveri will fully support GDDR5 later this year. I suggest sending an email to AMD because those dumbos must not have gotten the memo. /s

http://www.xbitlabs.com/new...

Internet experts.

For the ones actually interested, this is what the PS4 is all about:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

Kaveri shares the architecture of the PS4 cpu (on a different core).
#3.1.31 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(4) | Report
delboy  +   501d ago
Ps4 RAM=Ps3 Cell
Fanboys have to have something brag about.
Out of those 8GB only a small portion would be used as Video ram, maybe 2GB, because Cpu and Gpu can only chew so much, the rest will be for OS and texture or asets cache.
So a system with only 2GB of GDDR5 can produce same graphics as ps4.
Just look how much video ram Crysis3 uses on ultra settings and everything should be clear, and a side note a i7 with gtx680 can chew more graphic data then ps4 ever will.
#3.2 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(15) | Disagree(31) | Report | Reply
brich233  +   501d ago
Exactly, the cell was really overated and a waste of time for developers. Thier was nothing diffrent about the games that we havent see before. And as far as having 8gb of ram... developers have to be innovative first for the 8gb of ram to really mean anything.
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Feline_Pornographer  +   501d ago
"Thier was nothing diffrent about the games that we havent see before"

Take the fanboy goggles off...

The PS3 destroyed the wimpy Xbox 360 this gen. The wimpy Xbox 360 got beaten so badly this gen its fanboys had to resort to desperately scanning crappy multiplatform titles frantically looking for something to brag about.

No console in history has every gotten beat like the Xbox 360 did this gen in graphics.

Seven years after the wimpy Xbox 360 came out the only game its fanboys have to brag about is a game running Epics awful crossplatform Unreal engine with its 'shiny normal maps everywhere!' tech.

The Xbox 360's only game anyone every even tries to claim can come close PS3 level graphics, Gears of War, gets destroyed by the PS3's Uncharted:

http://kineticninja.blogspo...

People use to think Dreamcast fans were delusional when it got destroyed by the PS2 in graphics. Xbox 360 fans are making Dreamcast fans look sane...
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delboy  +   501d ago
Yeah but fanboys think that ram has computing power and that it will be used for better A.I. or thinhgs like that.
It's funny to read all dose comments from clueless fanboys.
Can ps3 run Skyrim? Or Witcher2? Or Fallout?
No ps3 is weaker than xbox360, ps3 can only run Uncharted and GoW wich are linear tunel shooters or has fixed camera like in GoW.
Nothing special abot those games.
#3.2.3 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(15) | Report
aquamala  +   501d ago
@feline_

if ps3 is so much more powerful than 360, why don't the multi plat games look like the PC versions? why do they always look about identical to 360? we are not seeing games in 1080p with dx11 effects onh ps3 are we?
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bourg  +   501d ago
Those actual Gears of War in game graphics are absolutely hilariously bad.

Unbelievable that that is the best the Xbox 360 was able to put out this gen. Microsoft really blew it when they rushed the Xbox 360 out the door with such ridiculously weak graphics hardware compared to the what Sony ended up putting in the PS3.

Looking back at the GameCube, PS2, and Xbox. All three consoles had games that were the best looking of the generation. The GameCube had the Metroid Prime games, the PS2 had the God of War, Gran Turismo games, and the Xbox had its games with 'teh shiny' like Halo.

The Xbox 360 has been an unprecedented graphical failure.
#3.2.5 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(19) | Report
teo72  +   500d ago
Do you Delboy even know what Unified Memory means. It means that they can allocate the 8GB Gddr5 memory any way they want. Memory bandwith / 30 FPS (console standard for many games) = 5,86 GB max detail per frame active throughput with CPU and GPU combined. This means they can and some developers probably will allocate around 5GB for graphics. Not many PC GPU cards can do the same. And common for them all is that they are rather expensive...

What will be interesting is to see if the PS4 has enough grunt to take advantage of this much VRam. 5GB frames sound like an awful lot of data.

Remember: In order to take advantage of the theoretical active throughput per frame, you need at least that much Vram on the graphicscard, as the GPU needs somewhere to store the data before sending out the finished frame.
#3.2.6 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(9) | Report
T900  +   500d ago
@teo72

Thats not how things work.

First you have to consider not all 8GB will be used toward games. More so all of it cant be used toward VRAM, its shared.

You need to chop of 2GB for OS and future reserves.

The game itself will probably end up taking 2-3GB of RAM.

You will potentially only be left with 2-3GB for VRAM.

Its debatable how much of that VRAM the PS4s GPU really will be able to use. If RAM was all it took to increase performance Nvidia and AMD would be packing tons of it on their PC GPUs, they dont do that for a reason.

The GPU used in the PS4 is nothing ground breaking its a mid range GPU at best.

Further evidence can be seen with the upcoming Killzone game, it only uses 1.5GB of video RAM. That should tell you something. PS4 wont be able to take advantage of all that RAM not from a VRAM perspective anyways.

Hence stop using RAM size as a guide to performance.

Rather it will be the CPU and GPU that will be the determining factors, both of which are low end to mid range on the PS4.

Edit:

"Not many PC GPU cards can do the same. And common for them all is that they are rather expensive... "

Wrong again, most mid range GPUs of today already provide more than 176GB/s Memory bandwidth. Btw again PS4 will have to SHARING that bandwidth not all goes to the GPU.

In the PCs case all of it goes to the GPUs.

HD 7950 already provides 240GB/s bandwidth (dedicated), thats alot higher than PS4's Shared 176GB/s.
#3.2.7 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(11) | Report
Armyntt  +   500d ago
Some of these comments from the likes of felinewhatever are the most fanboyish stuff ive read in awhile. Now while a person is allowed to have ones own "opinions" on things he has such a negative spin on things it makes you wonder what the quality of life this guy has outside of gaming. The PS3 had great looking games this gen but so did the 360. Fanboys are just that fanboys, not hardcore gamers. I used to think this site was for the hardcore but there is just too many fanboys on both sides now.
TAURUS-555  +   500d ago
im so glad im getting the PS4
bullymangLer  +   500d ago
. affected by my facts ha! = facts of pain?
#3.4 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Gameatholon  +   501d ago
Bully not sure what it is you're trying to say.

I thought this article was about the PS4 being able to do some amazing things, but you guys feel the need to attack Nintendo.

I think a lot of you fail to realize that without Nintendo, gaming wouldn't be what it is today, so give a little respect.
#4 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
smashcrashbash  +   501d ago
Yeah may I also point out like I have done several times that gaming wouldn't be the way it is today thanks to every single gaming company we have had.So I would appreciate if you would stop pretending Nintendo did it on their own with no help or inspiration from anyone else like most people do. Never forget it was Magnavox, Atari and Sega that pioneered gaming along side Nintendo.Gaming would be what it is today without everyone's help and innovation.Even failed consoles like Jaguar and 3DO contributed fully voiced animated cutscenes.
#4.1 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
kingPoS  +   501d ago
Man, your so right! Without Nintendo the PlayStation might not of ever happened. Heck they practically pioneered the shoulder buttons & the four button layout.

Remember the GEN vs SNES era. Well I use to think the SEGA six button pad was better. lol It might have been great back then then, but it ain't true now.
#4.2 (Edited 501d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
Geovanny  +   501d ago
Maybe COD will finally die out now. Thanks innovation.
Knight_Crawler  +   500d ago
And replaced by what Killzone and Halo...innovation -_-
N0S3LFESTEEM  +   500d ago
It would be a first person hugging simulator if Obama has anything to do about it.
Rainstorm81  +   500d ago
Obama said he was banning violent games when did this happen?......oh wait good thing Games fall under the 1st Amendment.

I swear, ever since we have had a black president you conspiracy theorists have gone over the deep end harder than normal.
Felonycarclub8  +   501d ago
Wii u is not next gen but its not a bad system is just overpriced and well at least is in hd but am going to wait for a price cut.
admiralvic  +   501d ago
"Wii u is not next gen "

People like you do realize that "next gen" isn't about how much power the system has, but simply releasing after this gen, right?
Hicken  +   501d ago
Actually, "generation" can be used to denote either way. We wouldn't really call the Wii U "next-gen" if there were no significant performance improvement over the Wii, would we? I mean, the Wii, itself, got away with it because it was a completely different concept from the Gamecube.

Technologically speaking, generations are often separated by performance capabilities, not just the period during which they're released, chronologically.
younghavok  +   501d ago
If all next gen is is more power than Wii U IS next gen as it has more power than the ps360 and way more than the Wii. If its a measure of time than it is also next gen. If its an expansion on gameplay than its also next gen. I didnt have built in remote play last gen or any other gen before it. I could never pause a game and open a web browser before. I could never play 5 player split screen in a game before with only 1 tv. If that isnt next gen than i seriously dont know what is. Nintendo has done more with the Wii U than people give it credit for. Plus its fully backwards compatibile with the Wii. Its expanded more on its previous version than the PS4 has over the PS3. So think about that
Felonycarclub8  +   498d ago
Okay so wii u is next gen and ps4 and the next Xbox are next next gen, sorry but Wii u is not that much powerful than the ps3. PS4 is way more powerful than ps3 and it will do more things than pa3 ever could or the wii u. I don't hate the wii u I just think is overpriced and it's not fully backwards compatible if it was it would play GameCube games not just wii games if the wii could play them then wii u should too right? Ps4 doesn't play them for a reason the same reason they took the GameCube out of the wii u? So think about that before you go bashing on the ps4 for not having backwards compatibility.
younghavok  +   498d ago
I had to re read my post to make sure of it but nowhere in there did I bash on the PS4 for not having backwards compatibility. And Wii U is fully backwards compatibile with the Wii. It plays Wii games and uses Wii accesories. Gamecube is two gens behind and the Wii was backwards compatibie with the gamecube. As I said, when you compare the consoles to their previous iterations, the Wii U is more advanced than the PS4 is. I stand by that. Remote play, Miiverse, downloadble retail games, 5 player splitscreen, video chat. All this is out the gate and out the box. Just because its not as powerful as the PS4 does not make it any less of a next gen console. It added plenty with console features, same way Sony is doing with the PS4 and power. Everybody has their own tastes, for me personally great visuals lose their appeal faster than anything else to me. Remote play is still a joy to me all these months later But thats me.
_QQ_  +   501d ago
that's like saying ps4 is not next gen becuase a high end pc pulls down it's pants and shits all over it....
Qrphe  +   500d ago
That's like saying PC and the Magnavox Oddysey are in the same generation because there was no PC2

Brotip: don't categorize PC in generations for obvious reasons
Brotip to 90% of everyone above: reread the stuff you post sometimes, seriously
_QQ_  +   500d ago
the point of my comment is to show him how dumb he looks saying the wiiU isn't next Gen, not sure how you didnt catch that.
#6.3.2 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
khowat  +   500d ago
Okay here is some video of Infamous Second Son
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Sucker punch has confirmed that this is real gameplay

This is the zelda wii u tech demo, I cannot say that this is real gameplay, but we at least know that this is running in real-time
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Again I cannot say this is real gameplay

Obviously the PS4 wins no question

But with the wii u that's pretty good for 2 gigs of ram and a seven-year-old tech

The gap may not be as wide as we think
first1NFANTRY  +   501d ago
I'm really happy Sony went with 8gigs of GDDR5 ram for the PS4. I think next gen will focus largely on AI, larger worlds and overall immersive experience for the end user.

Not to take anything away from the graphics but the features mentioned above will breath more life into the games.
EffectO  +   501d ago
lmao,GDDR5=New Cell

Pachter is really clueless when it comes to tech.
TrevorPhillips  +   501d ago
I think I'm going to cry guys, I love you Sony :')

PS4 coming soon to our homes!
ichimaru  +   500d ago
You love a company....based halfway around the world
stuna1  +   501d ago
I'd like some of what the guy above me is smoking!

What some haven't taken into acount, is when the WII came out it was was smoking the competition of the assembly line! Cheap, innovative motion controls and most of all Casual friendly. Those are really things that are afterthought with the WII U! Example the WII transcended all age barriers, from the very young to the very old.

The WII U doesn't have that ability to entice the the older population, hell most 55 year old and up don't have up to date phones, the majority would just as well settle for a Obama phone.

I read a commenters post a while back where he progressional increase of ram has been between 8x to 10x, and for the most part that has happened with each console from generation to generation except in Nintendo's case.

It's pretty obvious with the close of this generation, the increase of ram for next generation was not just a want, it has become a necessity.
admiralvic  +   501d ago
The thing is, the Wii U is the very definition of "2 steps forward, 1 step back".

While the Wii progressed onward, Nintendo seemed to have acknowledged turning their backs on the "hardcore" community and made some changes to accommodate them. These changes also result in it being easier / more likely to see third party support.

However, the Wii U still supports the Wii mote and can still appeal to the groups you list.
solid_warlord  +   501d ago
Nintendo has its fair share of massive failures

Virtual Boy = Fail
N64 = Fail
GameCube = Fail
Wii U = (impeding failure)

If Nintendo fails this gen, they either gamble all there money and try for on last next gen of home console war or they call it quits and become a software only company.
admiralvic  +   501d ago
@ Solid_Warlord

What does that have to do with ANYTHING I said?
1nsaint  +   501d ago
@solid_warlord really? N64 and gamecube failed? Last time i checked it made nintendo billions.

What have you accomplished? besides having an dumb username on N4G.
Jakens  +   500d ago
Overall, Nintendo is not is trouble. Meaning, they could fail and easily try agian.
Amsterdamsters  +   500d ago
This is in reply to solid_warlord.

Please explain what made the systems you mention failures. While from a sales standpoint, the Virtual Boy was the worst, it still managed to sell 170k+. Just curious, have you produced and sold that many of anything? If not, are you a failure because of it?

The PS3 is in last place, yet I along with many others have enjoyed it for years. Lastly, your prediction of the Wii U failing makes me wonder if your were also one of the people who claimed the 3DS was going to fail early on.

If a system is produced and has games that I enjoy, I would never consider it a failure...that would take a very narrow minded person for that.
TheSaint  +   501d ago
Isn't this an article about PS4? We all know the wii is weakest console so how about we focus on the actual next gen?
Bladesfist  +   501d ago
This site is really going downhill with all these stupid articles. Developers bring innovation, not hardware. It is normally something that is aimed at by indie developers who tend to prefer an open platform because then they do not have to worry about working with Sony or Microsoft, paying stupid money to update their game ect. This is why PC is the home of indie developers.

GDDR5 is not a miracle that Sony have invented. It is Graphics RAM that is used because of its high bandwidth making it a good choice for transferring big chunks of data like textures. It is not used for system memory as it would hurt the performance of the CPU by increasing latency. People keep saying that GDDR5 is the future but have no idea about hardware.
CEOSteveBallmer  +   501d ago
Great, 360fans vs. PS3 fans, when it went cold now its "PC fans vs. Playstation fans. All I can say is, PC fans just leave the console gamers alone okay? they are just pointing out their opinion even though some of it is wrong. It's like PC gamers are looking for a "Fight". Stop it because it will only make you look "Bitter" because the developers support the consoles more. So if a console gamer says, "Yey wow great graphics im soo happy PS4 is so awesome", just leave them alone Ok? they are not Provoking you to an argument. So tendency is, you comment on them, they will obviously fight back.
kenshiro100  +   500d ago
I just think its hilarious. We know nothing about either console and there's fights breaking out all over the place.
Mogwai  +   501d ago
People keep banging on about how apple and google are taking away core gamers....they are bloody not! people that play games on phones/tablets arent core gamers, they play these simplified games while waiting for the train or at the doctors surgery or for a casual distraction, no gamer is thinking "stuff ps4/xboxnext im getting an ipad/iphone for games instead" even kids get bored of app games, my 8 yr old neice would rather play minecraft than anghry birds. its absolutey ridiculous reporting.
Jakens  +   500d ago
Great graphics to me don't imply that they are great graphics to PC gamers. I never intend to put down what others may call great graphics.
leemo19  +   500d ago
Patcher is a idiot he really is. Ps3 by the time it ends it will sold 85-100 million,. Sony gets it under $200 ps3 will be going off the shelf really fast. If Sony sells ps4 for $600 or even $500 like they did with the ps3 it will be very slow start again. I can see Sony selling the ps4 between $350-$450 its gotta be at some reasonable price.

Now the ram is more than enough and will help push games even further and smoothly, but innovation of how the games will be made? well that depends on the imagination and creativity of the developer.
leogets  +   500d ago
doesn't "super charged PC acticture" mean anything to u guys?
DivineAssault  +   500d ago
Publishers, Indies, Developers, Analysts, Gamers, Fanboys, etc ALL PRAISE PS4.. Sony will rule nx gen w/o a doubt (core market anyway).. Vita & PS4 will have some amazing stuff & i cant wait to see it.. The possibilities are endless.. New IPs, reboots, sequels, prequels, every damn thing will be on it..

I dont think it will be hard at all for nx gen to replicate current gens sales.. All the latest n greatest games will be on them so ppl will upgrade within the nx 2+ yrs
#18 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
The_Infected  +   500d ago
^^
"ALL THE ABOVE COMMENTS ARE CONSTANT ARGUMENTS"

Can't we just say its great to have the 8GB GDDR 5? It's great we have such a great system coming and lets enjoy the hell out of it!
Studio-YaMi  +   500d ago
Funny thing in the comment section ..
most of the comments(trolling) are from PC fanboys ..!

Why are you people so damn scared of the PS4 ??? I don't get it ! :\

If it's not as impressive as your godly rigs at home,why care !? let the console gamers gloat about how good their next gen consoles are instead of trying so hard to make it "less" than what it's meant to be.

The PS4 is a beastly console,the games are going to talk for the system,not anything else.
puamdefokejpn  +   500d ago
well said.

PS: PC guys should be thrilled by this,.. since almost all AAA games that come to pc come from us and because of us.

Gddr5 is just godly.
#20.1 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(9) | Report | Reply
CrustifiedDibbs  +   500d ago
"Why are you people so damn scared of the PS4 ??? I don't get it ! :\"

i dont think anyone is "scared" of the ps4. not sure why you kiddies think that way? the reason for pc gamers chiming in has to do with the gross amount of disinformation flying around this place. i think most pc gamers are trying to keep you people gounded and realistic, which most consolers, are not atm.

i play mostly on pc and im not "scared" of the ps4. i cant wait. im buying it day one. new consoles help everyone.
#20.2 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
MikeMyers  +   500d ago
Why would anyone be scared of the PS4? Don't we want the industry to flourish whether you play games on consoles, PC or handhelds?

People know the cycle, they know in the beginning consoles comes out swinging and competing with PC games for graphical supremacy and then the PC gets further and further ahead. That's just the way things go.I think what people get sick of (at least I do) is all the arguing going on from console fanboys. We seen most of this this generation from the Xbox 360 and PS3 camp. It was embarrassing to see and it will no doubt carry over next gen.

From the article,
"He also predicts Microsoft’s Xbox 720 to sell the same amount."

Who here agrees and disagrees with that? Who here has a problem with that statement? Who here has already sided with one system and not the other even though we don't know all the details? So to sit there and mention PC fanboys are scared of the PS4 is just stupid? The people who are really threatened are the console fanboys with the competition.
Omeganex9999  +   500d ago
You PC whores should be happy that the PS4 is a mid range PC. It will improve all your multiplatform games, you will have a lot of good portings this time.
cayleee   500d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(7)
b_one  +   500d ago
im wondering, how Scorched earth would look like on ps4 with so much GDDR5 ram.
TABSF  +   500d ago
Refer to my previous comments

http://n4g.com/news/1187625...

http://n4g.com/news/1180153...

http://n4g.com/news/1181637...

http://n4g.com/news/1178068...

http://n4g.com/news/1178049...

My points are

PS4 CPU is based on a midrange laptop/home theatre PC just doubled up (AMD don't consider Jaguar High-End)
Has a barely high-end GPU that will be midrange before the PS4 is even out.

Only thing going for it is the 8GB RAM but like everyone has said, even the best looking games on PC never go over 2GB GDDR5 at 1080p unless its 3 triple monitor or higher resolution. PS4 GPU can't achieve 4K gaming only 4K films
Plus the memory latency could be a issue for PS4.

PS4 is only gonna be equal to a midrange gaming PC, its using PC hardware which is not even considered high-end.
Intel Core i7 3970X, i7 3770K or i5 3570K (been out over a year) destroys the PS4 AMD Jaguar CPU
AMD FX 8150/8120 and FX 8350 can destroy the PS4 CPU
Nvidia GeForce GTX Titan destroys the PS4 GPU
AMD Radeon HD 7970 destroys the PS4 GPU
Omeganex9999  +   500d ago
Yep, talking about raw power you are right, this is nothing new, it's always been the same.
But you can't forget the optimization; build a PC similar in power to the Xbox 360 or a PS3 and try to play today's games on them.
A console doesn't need all the power a PC needs, since it's main purpose is gaming. Games usually do not take advantage of all the features of the hardware, so there's no point in comparing and saying which one is the best. This is almost as stupid as saying "PS4 CAN'T DO 1080/60p".
Ju  +   500d ago
That might all be true and valid, but the "other" truth is, if I'd want to play around with HSA and see what I could do with it, there's nothing remotely close to the performance envelope of the PS4 - not yet, not any time soon, unfortunately (Kaveri the only one on the horizon will still be half the performance at best; unless they upgrade the GPU to a 79xx series). But, well, I'd like to build me one of those ASAP available. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.
Drainage  +   500d ago
ps4 shits on the PC gaming platform except the graphics which we control anyways because they are made with consoles in mind. lmao!!
Stevo2k  +   500d ago
Hang on a minute if 8 gb ram is no good and wont be used then why have the debs themselves asked for more ram?

Related video
Cueil  +   500d ago
because they probably already know what the overhead is going to be
cedaridge  +   500d ago
PS4 make.believe
Schawk  +   500d ago
So the truth behind these comments are if u want to have a decent gameing machine buy a PC?
N0S3LFESTEEM  +   500d ago
Indeed...
Adolph Fitler  +   500d ago
@MasterCornholio
"You would think that having a superior console that's cheaper than the competition would cause it to blow the competition away in terms of sales which would bring heavy 3rd party support to the system."

If the whole power thing were true, then 3DO, Jaguar, etc, etc, would have been a more dominant force in this industry. Nope, you need an already established name, which is why Sony had no problems with consumers, as brand recognition & trust was already a weapon they donned. Not only did they don that, but they had on there side, a secret weapon that Nintendo built for them pretty much.....They offered these 3rd party developers an escape, from these Japanese giants in Nintendo & Sega, that practically hated 3rd parties, as they saw them as competition. This is why I dislike Nintendo's ethics & ideals. They put profit, far ahead of innovation & all the other garbage that Nintendo fanboys praise them for. Google the EA 16bit days, story. It is fascinating reading, & gives insight, into just how controlling & money driven Nintendo is, & the greed part is the reason they deceived Sony, when PS was a project Sony research & developed & funded, putting multiple millions of dollars into, as an add on CD drive supposed to be for the SNES. Nintendo had them do this, then showed there true colours by meeting up with Panasonic, behind Sony's back, when Sony & everybody else, were under the impression that they already had a pretty much sealed deal. Nintendo did this act of deception, to try & maximize there end of the profits. They thought Sony were getting the better chunk of the pie, simply because Sony were the ones who did EVERYTHING, the R&D, the input of finances, the blood, sweat & tears involved in production. But, off Nintendo went & made deal with Panasonic, that would infuriate the best of us, if we were on Sony's end of the stick. They went ahead, making a deal with Panasonic, then screwed Panasonic & broke off the whole thing.
I was a former NES & SNES owner, & I did like the company before I heard all this, & more, which I partially get into below.
As I was saying, I thought Nintendo were the greatest, that was until Sony came along & proved, you don't have to be a-holes to developers & publishers, to be successful in the console biz. I mean, it's worked for Nintendo, as they have this untarnished, family value BS going on. But, the truth is, they are greedy bastards, that are still attempted to hold up the proper amounts of progress, all in the console hardware business should be making.
Adolph Fitler  +   500d ago
@MasterCornholio
"Not only that but as a consequence of poor sales 3rd party's choose to support the PS2 instead of the GameCube."

No they didn't, as stated above, the majority of 3rd party support was gone before GC was a thought. Sony & Nintendo's stubborn, pig headedness, when they refused to give the limited cartridge format the flick. Sony's CD based PSone was 3rd parties opportunity to escape Nintendo's non existant 3rd party support. And when looking at GC's & N64's poor sales (install base), you have got to factor in the controller, as well. Nintendo, not only had the most powerful hardware, when compared to there competition, back in the 16bit days, but they also had the most practical, comfortable, best laid out, quality feeling controller. The SNES buttons felt beautifully awesome to press in, I'm bit sure what it was, but they just had a comfort & quality feel to them.
Then, Nintendo decided that there proprietry cartridge format, was what we needed, & gave us the N64, & that hideous, horrid, uncomfortable, cheap Chinese plasticy feeling thing that was OK for about 1 genre, Mario...Yep, the 3D platform genre, was about the only single genre the abomination that is the N64 controller was at least partially functional for.
So, 3rd parties were waiting for the day they could give Nintendo the 1 finger salute say, "sianara & sorry for the spelling bitch, shove Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Tennis, Mario Golf, Mario Cricket, Mario Baseball, Mario Bowling, Mario badmington, Mario Crochet, Mario Cross stitching, Mario Horseriding, Mario does Debbie (f$#k, I'd get that one), Mario bangs Luigi In His Backdoor Of The Mansion".

With that said, Sony came along & gave developers & publishers the chance to do the aforementioned, that they had all been yearning for, as for all these years, Nintendo were complete tyrannical, communist-esque, a-holes. They charged ridiculous prices for poor 3rd party developers the opportunity (or privilege, as the ego-centric, overly greedy, & nasty Nintendo saw it), HUGE costs for dev. kits was just the entry point, that many wannabe developers couldn't afford, unless they mortgaged the whole companies dev. teams houses, or were already massive, established 3rd party developers/publishers, Nintendo kept on ripping off 3rd party developers & publisher by making shonky hunks of plastic called cartridges...these outdated pieces of history were a huge finance generator for Nintendo (& Sega), as they would not only charge a license fee to use there trademarked format, but the cartridges themselves, Nintendo charged an arm & leg for, as Nintendo & Sega, were the only ones allowed to produce these things (until EA came & kicked some arse &
#29 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
jacksheen0000  +   500d ago
All this talk about the GDDR5 latency problem the PS4 will have should be the thing of the past.

I mean, hardware technology is getting better every year.

Hardware manufacture like itel/amd have finally realized CPU don't need to have high clock speed to crunch out enormous amount of calculation. So technically, latency problem should be down to a minimum.

Not to mention, the CPU and GPU is on the same die which should also help in some way to bring down the latency problem.

OH, what about the GPU/CPU mother board? It could be soldered on to a 2 ply board or 4 ply broad for all we know. There is a big difference. Remember the NEO GEO? well, it was packing a 4 ply mother board and not a 2 ply mother board like 360/ps3 uses; which make a helluva difference when it come to bandwidth. Oh, what about the 28nm process Sony's CPU/CPU is made with. There are many factors to consider here before passing any judgment on whether the PS4 is using current tech or not.

just my 2 cents.
#30 (Edited 500d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
worldwidegaming  +   500d ago
I agree, we need to start focus on the other parts.
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