Top
830°

Stranger than fiction: Is PS3 about to win the console sales war?

CVG: Once an absurd notion, Kutaragi's final console could outsell the Xbox and Wii with a last-gasp flourish

Read Full Story >>
computerandvideogames.com
The story is too old to be commented.
bicfitness1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

Well they're allowed to sell it in China now (as of Nov 2012), which will help. Furthermore, Sony has always done well in pan-European countries. The Wii is effectively dead, and MS won't have much success outside of US/ UK with post-720 Xbox 360 sales (and will they still support it with software too, is another question). So yeah, with at least another two price cuts to go - one around the PS4 launch, one a few years later - its easy to see how Sony will finish first for last gen.

A real limp of a start, but Sony always said it was a marathon and not a sprint. Still, its good to see them going into next-gen with a bit more focus and less hubris (PS4).

dedicatedtogamers1302d ago

It wouldnt surprise me if PS3 "won", though of course some will always change the definition of winning to soothe their fanboy souls. It won't be total consoles sold. It'll be something silly like "increased percentage of market share" that supposedly determines the winner. People counted out Nintendo back in 2006 with the Wii and look what happened. Today, people are counting out Sony, but we'll see

darthv721302d ago

there was never really a starting point we can assume there is no finish line either.

all the systems came into the market at their own times and there wasnt any kind of goal to aspire to reach other than their own individual goals.

It isnt like they all decided the first one to 100mil wins. each company has their own sales goals and from the look of things. Nintendo's wii bested the previous system releases (NES, SNES, N64, GC) and MS has certainly surpassed their previous xbox sales by a considerable margin.

Sony still has time to sell the PS3 so it could very well reach the numbers of the PS1 or even PS2 if sony keeps it on the market long enough.

they are all winners this gen. No spin, no derogatory comments. Just the pure fact that all 3 are selling (sold) to an ever increasing tough industry crowd is proof this was (if not THE) best console generation I have been part of (and I been around since pong).

Kalowest1302d ago

"People counted out Nintendo back in 2006 with the Wii and look what happened. Today, people are counting out Sony, but we'll see"

Something can be said about MS, no one thought they would stay in the game console business for long. As a gamer that owns all 3, I'd say all 3 did a great job this gen.

silverbeld1302d ago

@darthv72

All winners?

Why can't you just admid the Xbox losing this gen again.

insomnium21302d ago

We all knew PS3 would end up first. Even the xfans knew deep down. That's why they were so hell bent on fighting it.

Godmars2901302d ago

@darthv72:

There wasn't ever really a starting point because MS jumped the gun.

They may have needed to to get ahead of Sony, But overall the move wasn't all that good for the industry.

I wouldn't have been good for them if they hadn't had the money to repair the damage of RRoD.

Syntax-Error1302d ago

WHAT?! There's no one counting out Sony? Save that shit for your fanboy blog. Since Sony had that press conference last month it has been Sony all day every day. No one said anything negative except that they showed a bunch of tech demos. The negativity was about MS just as this article headlines by giving Sony the console wars of next gen BEFORE THEY EVER GET STARTED! How's that for flame baiting

pixelsword1302d ago

The stupidest thing anyone can do is be dismissive of any console; the Wii smashed everyone at first, Microsoft took America by storm, and now Sony might sell the most this gen?

With Sony's big PS4 reveal, obviously Sony is not taking the other two consoles lightly, but the irony is that fans of Sony just might.

Just everyone remember to support all of the devs/exclusives that is talked up

Skip_Bayless1302d ago

The Wii is not a current generation console. Please ignore articles like this.

BlindGuardian1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

this is not news, PS3 has outsold the 360 on all but one year when they were both in the market at the same time

if what happened with last gen consoles when this one hit, MS will dropped 360 as soon as they get the 720 out of the gate and the sales will drop to almost zero, while Sony will keep selling PS3s for years to come

will the PS3 overtake the 360 lifetime sales with one year less on the market? 100% certainty (if it hasn't happened already)

will the PS3 overtake the Wii's lifetime sales? tricky question, Wii's sales numbers will be almost zero by this time next year but the gap is huge, they will probably end up very close, but which one ahead is almost imposible to tell now

SHORYUKEN1302d ago

PS3 #1
Wii #2
360 #3

This Positions is so familiar like it does before.

PS2 #1
Gamecube #2
xbox #3

My predictions

PS4 #1
WiiU #2
720 #3

I love doing this!

Welshy1302d ago

@SHORYUKEN

As much as i have faith in Sony in terms of long term support over Microsoft or Nintendo, i think you're getting SLIGHTLY ahead of yourself if you think the Wii U is going to outsell the next Xbox.

SHORYUKEN1302d ago

@TheFaceless

WiiU still not showing their true powers and they already sell millions.

Once they release Zelda and new Mario then it will kick xbox @ss again.

+ Show (10) more repliesLast reply 1302d ago
Azurite1302d ago

I read an article in late January which said China -may- life the ban.

Haven't read anything about since then, doubt they've lifted the ban yet though since we'd see more news about it in that case.

shutUpAndTakeMyMoney1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

Sony definitely won the hardcore gaming war.. Shame MS dropped new AAA IP xbox support after 2010.. Alan Wake was awsome!! Got it on steam!

Grap1302d ago

even if Sony win the sales war. u have to give MS a big credits selling nearly 80M with their second gen console compete with Nintendo and sony who has so much experience in this industry.

AlphaJunk1302d ago

what is makes a game hardcore and what are examples of games not being hardcore?

maniacmayhem1302d ago

Didn't you just rag on another poster for their never ending troll service of Sony. Saying how they have nothing positive to say about Sony and should be marked for trolling every time?

http://n4g.com/news/1186742...

How is this any different from what you do?

GusBricker1302d ago

This all comes down to Japan. MS has no shot in hell of ever winning a worldwide console war without getting a piece of the Japanese market.

They've tried their damnedest, but we all know, they had no chance in the first place.

darthv721302d ago

has been completely overused this console generation. That term was coined by the type of person who played games on a regular basis. not specifically the type of game.

If you were someone who was dedicated to playing games on the various platforms back in the day...you were considered hardcore.

it seems so many have lost touch with that aspect and have turned the phrase into something more associated with the "game" rather than the "practice" of gaming.

By simple definition, a casual gamer is someone who plays games occasionally. on a semi regular basis and the games can be anything from simple puzzle types to graphic intensive types.

the hardcore gamer is someone who plays games on a consistent basis. the games can range from simple puzzle types to graphic intensive types.

It centers around how dedicated the person is to playing games. NOT the games themselves. There are some casual killzone players out there just as there are some hardcore angry bird players out there.

i think what the majority of the self proclaimed 'core' dont understand is that we are ALL in the same hobby and we can ALL respect that hobby even if we dont ALL play at the same level as the next person.

AlphaJunk1302d ago

@darthv72 - great post and exactly what I was getting at - I was hoping someone that plays and knows what a "hardcore" game is and isn't would attempt to explain the stupidity behind such a term. I get so tired of hearing these dorks on here call a particular game "hardcore."
Back in the day when video games were getting big, there were Super Mario Bros. tournaments where people played hours, but I'm sure these goof-balls wouldn't consider that a "hardcore" game; or even further back when arcades were huge people stayed for hours playing Pac-Man and Galaga for that matter. Lame people on here.

darthv721302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

while there are some "goof-balls" and "lame" people on this site. it really isnt their fault they misinterpret things.

Its the association of the term over the course of many console generations that has conditioned them into believing the "hardcore" phrase is by virtue of the game and NOT the player.

It is somewhat disrespectful to those who had to earn that designation by way of being very dedicated to playing games in general. I dont proclaim myself to be a hardcore gamer anymore. I dont deserve to fit into that crowd because i dont dedicate the amount of time i once did when i was younger.

I still consider myself a gamer however because I do still play but by no means would I fall into the casual association either.

I just find it funny how even the execs at the companies misuse the term as well. As if to say they know that to be respected by the gaming community, they have to talk the talk even if they dont walk the walk.

BitbyDeath1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

"By simple definition, a casual gamer is someone who plays games occasionally. on a semi regular basis and the games can be anything from simple puzzle types to graphic intensive types."

I dunno the world has changed.
Casual gamers are kind of extinct using the old definition. Even my Grandma plays games on Facebook regularly. Does that make her a hardcore gamer? Or how about all those on the trains, planes and buses who constantly play games on their phones while travelling? Are they hardcore?

Casuals should be based on the amount of types of games they play IMO cause the world is now a different place.

BitbyDeath1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

Ignore/delete this comment.
Double post.

darthv721302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

"Casuals should be based on the amount of types of games they play IMO cause the world is now a different place."

I agree. These are different times we live in. But which is it? Amount or type? There is one thing to have a fascination with something like games and then there is another with having an obsession. the association of the terms is where it falls apart.

The old days of the hardcore gamer was the obsessive nature of wanting to play games all the time. It didnt matter the game or what platform so long as there was that addictive desire to play.

These days, things are perceived differently. Maybe your grandmother is a hardcore facebook gamer if she is constantly playing the various games available.

Just because she isnt slaying zombies or kicking some multiplayer ass does not mean to discredit her desire to find entertainment in the games that appeal to her.

And that is the word of the day kids...appeal. People of all ages and types find things that appeal differently. I think there has been such a lack of respect for the industry as a whole because we see an increase in a certain type of game here or a decline in others there.

Yet we are all on the same side when it comes to enjoying the various things this industry offers. There are simple games that do not appeal to me but i can respect others who like them. But maybe that sense of respect comes with age.

I am 40 now and i can look back and see what a punk i was when i was younger but i never lost sight of respect for the craft (gaming).

BitbyDeath1302d ago

"But which is it? Amount or type?"

I'd say the "amount of type" because Facebook being one category is as casual as the FPS craze. (eg. Those that only play COD).

So someone who plays multiple types/genres is more hardcore than someone who plays just 1 or 2.

nukeitall1302d ago

@BitbyDeath:

Then who decides the category?

What if I play Facebooks games, then I jump on iOS, then on Android, then I play Minecraft on Xbox 360, and then finish off with some Wonderbook. Each I play only a little bit.

Does that make me a hardcore gamer?

Hardcore gamer should and always has been about how much time and "real genuine" interrest in games.

BitbyDeath1301d ago

@nukeitall,

There is casual gamer and casual games. Not to be confused with one another. Most of what you listed were casual games because they generally only hold your interest for a short period of time.

So yea, maybe a combination of both time and genre diversity as i'd think someone who only sticks to one or two genres would also be casual.

+ Show (11) more repliesLast reply 1301d ago
Tapani1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

Misinformation.

The first time they suggested the ban to be lifted was 2012 September and Ministry of Culture squashed the rumor/suggestion immediately.

The latest rumor was sparked again by China Daily: http://www.chinadaily.com.c...

I'm sure the ban will be lifted within the next 3-4 years and that's when the gaming industry will be finally tilted back to Asia. And most likely it will stay there as the new middle-classes rise and have buying power to support the supply.

The funny thing is why you got so many agrees. It merely suggests that most people have no idea what is really happening in the gaming industry (or in the world) and buy everything they hear just like that.

Edit: Just to add, console hardware sales number does not really represent anything, but something to do cheap PR about.

Software sales, licensing fees, digital sales and other revenue streams (such as PS+ and MS memberships) are equally if not even more important than simple overall hardware sales numbers. If you want to pick a winner, then pick the one that makes most money overall.

All in all, this "article", once again, is irrelevant and is not even journalism. Just keep feeding yourself with this silly "information" and you will never know nothing of the real world. Sorry for the cynical touch, but I'm slightly tired of these articles and these "opinions". Especially when I see this crap on a renowned gaming website.

bicfitness1302d ago

I'm going off the information listed IN THE ARTICLE. I read the article (step one), I commented on it, appropriately. It is not my job to fact check the information that they post. Take it up with CVG if you believe that information is incorrect. Your argument is misplaced.

I do however agree that China is the next major superpower, particularly in terms of economy and/ or the gaming industry. The writing has been on the wall for that shift for some time.

Tapani1302d ago

It is your own responsibility to be educated/enlightened enough not to believe every single word that is written online.

My comment is not misplaced if we are after the truth from an objective and factitive perspective.

If we are after something else, such as feeding ourselves with misinformation to feed the N4G bubble you are living in, then sure, it's misplaced! ;)

bicfitness1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

It is a bit ridiculous to expect someone to question every piece of information published by a major media agency. That sort of proactive investigation is usually reserved for the greatest of tin-foil hat speculators, which is what you are sounding more and more like you are. Your comment is misplaced because you are attacking me, when you should be attacking this truth that you are supposedly after. Take it up with CVG. Get mobilized, start a campaign if you like.

Also, at what point in the article that you linked or in another piece that you would like to submit does it say that the ban will be lifted in "3-4" years as to your personal speculation. It sounds as if it will be lifted sooner than that. And that's going off the information that you, yourself put forth. For someone that is so aggressively focused on transparency and realism in their news, you seem to be able to conjecture and fabricate as well as the sources you deem unreliable.

Regardless of your semi derailing of this argument, the FACT remains that even without China, if the PS3 keeps on that trajectory, selling more than the Wii or 360 each year, it will likely crawl to 1st place after several more years and a few price cuts anyway.

Edit: A short lesson in N4G etiquette. "Agrees" and "disagrees" can happen with or from various parts of a post. It can be an overall concurrence or rejection of sentiments contained therein, or it could be related to specific points of reference in a text. Its not all or nothing as you are trying to make it out to be. While persons might not agree with the point that you've isolated and continue to harp on, they may very well agree with everything (or the preponderance of) what was said. Enough to click "agree" at least.

Its not that hard to figure out. Its a black and white voting system for statements that are shades of grey. People have to pick one absolute, even if they're not 100% committed to what they are agreeing to.

kayoss1302d ago

@bicfitness
"That sort of proactive investigation is usually reserved for the greatest of tin-foil hat speculators..."
This was AWESOME!!!

@Sharp
Dude, we still waiting for your rebuttal to bicfitness reply.

I have to agree with bicfitness. When most people who dont have time to do research to determine facts and speculation they read the news. They depend on the news to do all the research and get the fact.
For example, if a scientist were to publish a piece about how bacteria react to a certain chemical and published is findings. How would you go about "educate/enlightened" ; yourself when you dont have to tools or know how? You have to assume what the scientist publish is fact.

Tapani1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

I base my information in the discussions I had with people in the gaming industry (Tokyo Game show, biz meetings etc.) when I was working in the financial industry in Asia. I read daily business news (it's my job) about companies and their financial statements. Plus, I had my own small gaming company and did a lot of research before I was planning to launch it. (Sadly, I didn't have enough time as other interesting challenges arouse). I do also read www.gamesindustry.biz and most of the comments there to get an insight what people in the industry think and do. On top of that I read Japanese and Chinese biz+gaming websites daily.

The way I see it: The gaming journalism is an entity living its own reality, well, rather fantasy. I doubt most of the people writing on these websites have a degree in journalism (Note: not necessarily required to do good journalism) or understands how any industry works from a financial point of view. Gaming companies only goal is to make money, not to sell X number of units at a loss (PS3 wasn't profitable from the beginning). No matter how "customer centric" they claim to be, it's all about money. Of course the overall units sold represents their customer reach to an extent, but it's more important how that customer behaves after receiving the product.

My question (hypothetically) is: What's the point of selling 100m consoles if your competition sells 50m and 2x the software + other paid services? These X number of hardware sold figures do not matter, therefore all these articles do not matter. And eventually, all these opinions on them do not matter. All the data under that superficial analysis matters.

I think (personal opinion!), to get to an X number of units sold is a symbolic value that serves a good PR trick to try and convince stockholders and potential customers that there is another upward trend going on (keep investors desperately on-board). So that the initial crazy investment in R&D and that silly PS3 design (plus TV division and other consumer electronic divisions) would be forgiven.

Personally I give props to the new CEO as he managed to turn the sinking boat into a barely floating one. But selling X amount of PS3 won't recoup the losses. The licenses/blu-ray association fees, software/digital/PS+ and DLC etc. might help them, not the X number of units. PS+ is a key component and I'm sure they will be extending that with PS4.

SONY has also sold it's DeNa shares and US and Japan HQ buildings to create a cushion for the new losses (R&D of PS4 + bad sales of other divisions). So basically, this is their last chance.

All that how many units X consoles sells is irrelevant in the big picture. It's just news made for the gamers so that CVG can make money by getting readers (ad revenue).

I have nothing against anyone here personally, but I just try to correct some of the information if they are pulled out of what not. I provide my own worthwhile or worthless opinions while at it.

bicfitness1302d ago

This article is about the PS3 outselling its competition IN HARDWARE UNITS once the tally from this past gen is completed. You've covered almost every possible deviation on the subject matter aside from the meat of the article itself. Kudos for your mental contortions.

A few issues of contention with what you have said:
- I wasn't aware that the PS3 had any attach rate or software selling issues. In fact I'm pretty sure its right up there with the 360 at 7-8 software units per hardware unit sold. Why even mention this?
- I find it amusing that you list your various "credentials" and "qualifications" as if visiting a variety of NA and Eastern gaming and news sites makes you any more informed than any of the posters here; who - myself included - read just as many and varied sources of news each day as you do, if not more.
- Pertaining to the last point, listing Chinese news as if it is somehow more credible than what is found on N4G or elsewhere, when it is a KNOWN FACT that Eastern news from mainland China is basically as skewed and controlled as you can get, does not support any arguments you are trying to make very well.
- All in all, you're veering from accusatory, to paranoid to pure hyperbole and based on your assessment of SNE you don't have any firmer a grasp on their business restructuring than you seem to have on anything else. SNE has gone from $9/ share to $15 and climbing. They're hardly on "their last chance" as you've put it.

Armchair analysts like you are exactly the reason why my portfolio is doing so well.

Why o why1302d ago

Lol how'd you like them apples.

Sony Ms or Nintendo don't know or care about my life I'm just a punter to them. What some do more than others is give me more of what I want which is games of high quality varying in genre. 1St or last doesn't change anything even now. So yeah well done Sony but thanks for dealing with my needs better than the rest. Story done

N4g_null1302d ago

Great post sharp and good luck some thing is brewing in the market again and no I don't like what the rock is cooking. The industry is not responding.

+ Show (5) more repliesLast reply 1302d ago
brish1302d ago

Didn't the wii sell the most consoles? Didn't the wii sell the most games?

If the winner is defined by install base, or game sales then the wii won the console war this generation.

Tito081302d ago

I wouldn't really say Wii won since it was the console with the worst 3rd party support and sales. Maybe casual-wise, but not for the most part. Handheld wise they are the winners, but I liked the PSP more!

Wh15ky1302d ago

Is this generation over already?

awi59511302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

I find this whole topic silly bragging you won a race after everyone else has gone home is nothing to be proud of. You do know the last Ps2 game came out in 2012 and who cares. Microsoft and nintendo would have moved on and stopped support when sony passes them Gen over. Microsoft and nintendo dont have to wait for Sony to catch up, the lights on the track have been turned off it's time to go home.

Wh15ky1301d ago

"I find this whole topic silly bragging you won a race"

The silly thing is calling it a race.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1301d ago
OlgerO1302d ago

Wow just imagine that China opens up as a console market. that would mean more then doubling the potential people the consoles could reach!!

H3ADWOUND811302d ago

Yeah but don't forget, the majority of people living in china ain't got a pot to piss in.. It'd be interesting to see some unit sales figures, no doubt..

hiredhelp1302d ago

Sony lets face it have always dominated console market since PSX days never have i seen such a libary on a console than the first playstation. Then PS2 another dominator against nintendo sega.
Sony have always been very inovative and have always had gamers in mind and casuals example of that of casuals sony first to intro duce dance dance games. Eye toy with eye pet.
To me the reason why sony yet again dominate PS4 if for same real reason they have always been about gamers and the games.
Ps3 was slow take off but kaz stated idk some couple years maybe ago the ps3 will over take the 360 he was right many people beleaved sony fail MS win but once price reduced redesigned the system bought studios come out more first part games people started moving across.

GAMES EXCLUSIVE GAMES thats whats gonna win it for them infact to me they already won.

psn_arakouftaian1302d ago

Plus if you did the maths you will have figure it out

showtimefolks1302d ago

it on pace to sell 129 million consoles according to gaming analyst reports followed by xbox360 at 117 and wii at 107

its amazing at where ps3 started with a huge price point to now maybe against selling the most for 3 straight gens for sony

50Terabytespersec1302d ago

Considering the massive collapse of the US economy and the European countries. The PS3 did very remarkably well for the most expensive system on the block.

360ICE1302d ago

Sorry, but that is highly likely to be misinformation. Everyone seems to believe the ban has been certified for the Chinese market, though, because of a generally misunderstood report released by Reuters last year.

Read more about it here:
http://www.forbes.com/sites...

As for CVG, they ought to take that information down.
And as for PS3, China and consoles in general, I sure hope they get moving with lifting that ban. They have to rely on tablet and mobile games. That's some kind of living hell.

+ Show (8) more repliesLast reply 1301d ago
Shadow Flare1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

"But here we are today, with an estimated 77 million PS3s sold worldwide, about 23 million units behind the market leader, the Wii - and enough potential in the console to carry on past Nintendo's high-flying system.

Let's get the clearest fact out of the way: the Wii is not going to sell many more units."

This is something I've thought about for a while. The possibility is there. PS3 is steam rolling at the moment, I think it sold about 1.2million in February globally, if my memories right.

With Wii effectively dead, and Sony showing ps3 continued support with games like GT6 (possibly) and Beyond,.....why not?

If all 3 consoles hit 100 million units sold, this would make for quite a remarkable generation

"(amazingly when you think about it, the ps3 still costs far more than what the Wii did at launch in 2006)."

Well written article btw. It has very sound reasoning which actually shows it will definitely overtake the wii's total sales. Further price cuts and Sonys continued support will be a big part of that.

"In April and August 2006, Sony reduced the price of its PS2 to $129 in the US and £99.99 in the UK - the console went on to sell more than 40 million units at this low price point. Then in 2009, the PlayStation 2 RRP fell below $100 in the US and at similar prices worldwide, picking up another 15 million sales thereafter."

PlayStation - Number 1 console, 3 generations in a row

DigitalSmoke1302d ago TrollingShowReplies(1)
shivvy241302d ago

wow it has been an awesome generation , All 3 consoles being succesful

InTheLab1302d ago

What kills me is how many articles there are about how mobile gaming is taking over despite coming off the most successful generation of gaming since...well...ever.

nosferatuzodd1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

Indeed nicely put sir Shadow Flare bubble for u man

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1302d ago
Bumpmapping1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

Not strange just FACTS PS3 been whooping 360 @ss WW all gen.M$ had America all gen keeping them afloat with a year head start....once Sony announced the slim the PS3 was selling like hotcakes forcing M$ to jump on Kinect gather some casuals to keep up with PS3 sales.

Kaz and Ken where right 360 was nothing to be worried about they should be proud they got the last laugh....

MultiConsoleGamer1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

No.

And to win anything it must first recoup all of its financial losses, and that's not going to happen.

We will also never know the truth about sony's sales numbers because they've only pushed shipped figures, combined ps2 and ps3 shipments for 2 years, and channel stuffed 3 hardware revisions.

PS3 will not sell another 25 million units. Xbox 360 will not stop selling.

Moonman1302d ago (Edited 1302d ago )

I disagree bigtime. PS3 has GTA V, The Last Of Us, Gran Turismo 6 and many more. PS3 isn't even $199. PS3 will reach 100 million. 360 won't beat PS3. Nintendo could squeeze maybe 5-10 million more sales out of Wii.

dredgewalker1302d ago

You need games to push more sales and honestly the PS3's advantage is that it still has games being developed for it exclusively along with the multiplats. The 360 will still sell but without any big game to push it, the PS3 will outpace it in sales. But on the brightside this console generation has been the most successful one considering they all exceeded the 50 million mark. MS, Sony and Nintendo did a good job in competing with each other.

roshi19871302d ago

It is not like it's in Sony's best interest to keep shipping units that arent being sold on the front end. Such a shit argument.

You make no point at all. Why cant it sell more? Your only reason is that they give us shipped numbers?

Get out of here fanboy.

kenshiro1001302d ago

I know you would love to see Sony at the verge of bankruptcy but it's not going to happen.

Sorry.

And I fully disagree with your poorly researched assessment.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1302d ago
Cocozero1302d ago TrollingShowReplies(1)