PS4 Memory Vs. Rumored Xbox 720 (Durango) Memory

Earlier, we analyzed the PS4′s memory bandwidth and compared it to the PS3. Sony’s use of GDDR5 is a bold move, given the price tag. But it could very well give it a leg up in this latest generation of the console war.
-PSLS

[iGAM3R-VIII]

http://www.playstationlifes...

Anyway, the PS4 looks dev friendly with the amount of RAM, I can't wait till E3

[TOGC]

A direct link: http://cdn1-www.playstation...

[knowyourstuff]

It will be difficult to match the RAM Sony has without Microsoft going all out and getting 16GB of DDR3 RAM, at 68-107 GB/s they've got a long way to go to match Sony's 176 GB/s. Hopefully the next Xbox won't get dorked, because it may mean Sony's console gets limited anyway, as Microsoft will be sure to include in its contracts that games can't look substantially better on other platforms other than its own.

[NewMonday]

hopefully the RAM will significantly reduce load times in games

[delboy]

What if MS puts faster EDRAM like on xbox, 256GB/s bandwith in combination with lower latency ddr3?

[NewMonday]

@delboy

their is no point to that if the GPU/CPU are not designed to take advantage of that.

the 8G of DDR5 on the PS4 were thought to be overkill until the CPU/GPU details revealed that they would be put to use.

[fr0sty]

@ Delboy, they already are rumored to be using 32mb of EDRAM, however even then it won't get around the bandwidth limitation completely, as you will still be bottlenecked by the fact that you can only fit 32mb's of data into that high speed EDRAM, and even with it's bandwidth combined with the DDR3's bandwidth you still won't even come as high as PS4's GDDR5 bandwidth is. The combined bandwidth of the DDR3 and EDRAM on "Durango" should be ignored anyway, as it represents an absolute best case scenario and will never be realized in real world usage.

As for GDDR5's latency, gaming isn't harmed as much by memory latency (which is why modern GPU's use GDDR5) as other types of computing are, so it won't make much difference. In gaming, bandwidth, not latency, is king.

[SatanSki]

@ sobekflakmonkey Do you think Sony is better? They are all, as you say, cunts. Its not about Sony vs MS. People have to realise its us vs them. They want to rip us off our money, they lie, they mislead us and manipulate. We have to show them ALL a finger.

[SolidStoner]

microsoft now can easily make same specs as PS4... and that wouldn't hurt anyone in the end, and ports would be fast, easy and good looking!!

[falcon79]

720 is rumoured to have 100Gb bandwith RAM.

ps4 has 174GB ?

WiiU has at least 200GB due to the huge amount of eDRAM,Nintendo really did go for a memory intensive design,40MB eDRAM on the MCM,plus some SRAM and couple this with main RAM wow prob around 220GB.

[1nsaint]

@falcon79 N4G should add an: no idea what their talking about bubble, just for you

[SkyGamer]

Does anyone know anything about PC architecture? GDDR5 is vastly different from DDR3/4. DDR you can use for more than just graphics hence the G in GDDR. Graphics memory is cheap. You can get a sub 100 dollar video card with enough GDDR. Different mechanics. sony has allocated ALL their ram for graphics so ai and multi-tasking wont be as good as traditional ram. It would be like taking the ram out of pretty much any video card out and using that as your ram. Why does anyone think that AMD is powerful? Am I the only one who doesn't buy into the bs? I mean even a second gen core i5 2500k would run circles around an AMD 8 core clocked at 1.6 ghz. I may be skipping next gen if MS follows the same suit. Laptop components that will already be out before the system launches?! No thanks! Besides the 7970m was already being used in MACS over a year ago! You call that next gen? Don't buy into their bs. Want nextgen? Build a gaming pc or get one of your buddies to do it for you. Sheesh!!!!

[MAJ0R]

Exactly, this is being way over hyped, especially the GDDR5 memory. You can only do so much with it until it gets bottlenecked by the weak CPU and possibly GPU as well.

[showtimefolks]

Lets wait for ms to confirm the specs, not long before sonys announcement it was reported that ps4 will have 4gb ram and than we found out about 8.

I hope ms at least matches what Sony is offering ram wise

[zebramocha]

From neogaf and beyon3d forums,they stay it is easier for Sony to add more ram than it is for Ms to make any architectural changes,other than ram.

[kreate]

MS probably keep specs slightly lower but also keep the price cheaper than the ps4.

I doubt they gonna have the same memory as ps4.
I also doubt they gonna cost more than the ps4.
Durango will be equal or cheaper than ps4. Probably $50-$100 cheaper.

Same strategy as the xbox360.

[showtimefolks]

Kreate

I don't think it's gonna matter if ps4 is priced $50 more just look at this gen $600 bucks yet still outsold the xbox360 even with a year ahead start and a higher price for ps3 at launch

As long as gamers see value in the machine they don't mind spending a little extra

Btw

Maybe this is why Sony hasn't shown the box and after ms conference they can make more changes if needed but that's just a guess

[Ju]

I wouldn't be so sure if it'll be cheaper. They invested quite a bit in that chip . We'll see if it can deliver. I think it's more expensive to design/build than PS4 straight forward approach. The RAM is cheaper, yes. And, you can only reach the 170GB/sec with operations where you have two source reads from both DDR and ESRAM which basically doubles the data path; and only if you don't write the result back. But this will be a very rare case. DDR latency is lower...

[JackBNimble]

Let's not forget that we are talking about memory here, the real question here should be .." does it or will it matter whether or not MS adds memory to the console for what they want to do with the nextxbox".

8gbs of ddr3 is suffient in most rigs with specs that are close to what the nextbox should be. Will it really matter if ms added more ram for what MS plan on doing with their next console? I personally doubt it. Numbers on paper maybe different then how the console will actually preform. Is 8gb of ddr3 suffient or would more ram just be over kill?

It's to late now for ddr5 unless they planed that from the start, and unless the o/s supports more then 8gb ddr3 there is no changing now anyway. Unless MS delay their next console , they maybe stuck with what they have.

[DonFreezer]

Can someone with more knowledge inform me on why desktop computers do not have gddr5 memories and ps4 does.If it's so important to have GDDR5 ram why don't pc hardware makers make the same type of ram for the pc too?

[Irishguy95]

Because it's not important. GPU's have it. The rest doesn't need it.

[falcon79]

All the figures so far have been developer's kits not retail you bunch of glory hunters,the 8GB is the dev-kits ie 4GB retail double WiiU,so 4GB in retail means 2GB for games,2GB OS not once in any statement have they said the retail ps4's will have 8GB's ???? it's why they had 1.5GB for Killzone normally they woul get 2GB going off 8GB devkits,WiiU devkits have 4GB's,half this for retail.

But take in mind that even with retail getting half it still equates to devs being able to build games on the dev-kit specs and just compress it all down to retail that's what they do'i guarantee you ps4 games will get made with 8GB and compressed down to 2GB,WiiU games will get built with 4GB and compressed down to 1GB,it's how it works,although Nintendo could allow 1.5GB in the future either way their wont be a big difference in scale from ps4 exclusives to say WiiU exclusives due to this ?

[TheUndertaker85]

@falcon: Are you stupid? Sony stood up on stage and listed off the specs. Why would they bother telling Devs about dev kits many studios already have? If that's not enough, from the official PS4 page on us.playstation.com:

https://secure.webassets.sc...

Not to mention that time and time again the comment has came up that the WiiU is underpowered by its own controller. Even running the WiiU requires roughly half it's own RAM. That's the cost of having a tablet controller with nothing in it, something MS and Sony wont have the same problems with since Kinect, Vita, and other accessories already have their own processors and what not.

PS4 & "Durango" won't be stuck in the same box as the WiiU or even close to it, this much is already clear.

[N0S3LFESTEEM]

Why does everyone tout ram as if it's miraculously make or break the console. 8gbs is complete overkill in lieu of the other specs in the PS4 and Microsoft could stick with 4gbs and there wouldn't be any negligible differences... More ram is always good though just to argue with myself but it would be even more redundant if the new consoles make use of Tessellated LOD which is by far the best features the new consoles should be capable of.

[tubers]

TBH I don't see gaming devs getting complete access of 8GB RAM. I bet at least 1/4 of that is reserved for something other than main gaming.

[Cupid_Viper_3]

I would sympathize with your feelings if at the start of this generation there wasn't the same scrutiny towards the PS3's ram vs the unified one in the 360.

So yes we should simply wait for MS to announce the next Xbox, but those websites need hits so you can't definitely throw that concept out the door right now.

So my advice to you is to sit back and enjoy show.

@tubers,
Wouldn't the same be true for the Rumored Durango? Proportionally the advantages/disadvantages would be the exact same if you reserved 1/4 of the memory from both system.

[soxfan2005]

It's because the PS4 is rumored to have more RAM than the next Xbox. Therefore, RAM is suddenly the most important detail of the new consoles. Of course, any technical aspect in which the next Xbox beats the PS4 will be dismissed as unimportant and meaningless.

[Ju]

The PS4 was never rumored to have more RAM. Most expected the PS4 to have only 4, but the faster RAM. Now both have the same, but 8GB GDDR5 were quite unexpected.

[N0S3LFESTEEM]

@ cupid

The PS3 was horrid piece of equipment... that's not me talking, that's multiple devs and even Gabe Newell humself. Mentioning that, it is impressive what the first parties have squeezed out of it and with no doubt in my mind it's obvious that it would've had more potential had they gone with that unified architecture instead of splitting up every little thing up. PS4 is making that up big time but their gloating about the amount of ram while the rest of the specs hardly give a rise. I'm pretty sure Microsoft will respond with 8gbs come E3 or something but their specs are almost identical give or take a few things.

Just a little insight... I know things always change but as it stands right now I can max a game out on my PC without even touching 4.5gbs out of my 8gbs, BF3 64player included. I bet a majority of the ram being used in the consoles will go towards social aspects tied into the OS... it's a waiting game to know for sure though.

[Cupid_Viper_3]

" I bet a majority of the ram being used in the consoles will go towards social aspects tied into the OS... it's a waiting game to know for sure though."

I don't mean to be disrespectful, but what load of nonsense son you're spouting son... THE MAJORITY of 8GBs of RAM on a console will be used by the OS? Meanwhile your games maxed out on your PC barely uses half of your 8GBs you say?

Meanwhile in reality land....The PS4 comes equipped with a secondary Processor for Social Aspect such as streaming and download and stuff, as STATE BY SONY.......

[Cupid_Viper_3]

**STATED** by Sony...

[Jockamo]

essentially it would ensure that you could run multiple applications at the same time...maybe even multiple games.

but for it to dramatically affect graphics and/or gameplay? c'mon..

[ProjectVulcan]

RAM won't even figure much if the Next Xbox has a considerably slower GPU as has been stated.

[falcon79]

Your right with S3TC u can essentially turn 1GB TO 4/6GB SO WHO CARES.

[ALLWRONG]

So real vs... not real?

[flyingmunky]

I'm with the author of the article. I'm a little bit confused as to how the RAM cache within the GDDR3 RAM just gets to add the two speeds together to produce 170gb/s.

This implies dedicated pipelines for both the cache and main RAM with the ability for the GPU to accept data from both concurrently. Generally the cache just gets data from the main memory in an effort to allow commonly used data to have faster access times. Which means that data in cache is just duplicated from main ram. I don't know that both the cache and main ram's speeds can just be added together, that isn't really how caches are used in computers.

Even if they had dedicated pipelines for each you still couldn't just add the numbers together, there would be some considerable overhead for the GPU to manage.

Oh well, it's a rumor anyway, so it's all conjecture.

[Ju]

That's a pure theoretical value under the assumption you load two sources with 68GB + 100GB/s - which simple uses the amount of data as a multiplier (say, you move 2x 64bit floats which means you can transfer 128bit with 68+100 = ~170GB). For the bean counters. And yes, those two memory channels run independent. MoveEngines can move data into ESRAM while GPU moves them within ESRAM - for this to work one source must be DDR the other ESRAM - and I would think you store it in a register??

But, it's BS math, because even if true, you can't do anything with the 100GB transfer until your 68GB transfer is ready - which "theoretically" drops this to 2x68 = ~140GB. Splitting hair here.

Well, true is, to move the same amount of data in GDDR you need to serialize those 2 values, but still, it is 176GB/s to move the exact same amount of data.

[sjaakiejj]

It's an incorrect calculation, considering the RAM cache is only 32 Megabytes big. Once those megabytes are transferred to the processor, the RAMs bandwidth is again limited by DDR3 as it's attempting to fill the 32 Megabytes up again.

The cache is more likely to be used for small but performance critical operations, as well as AA in games. Adding the bandwidth of the two memory chips together however is absolutely meaningless.

[Omni-Tool]

Sony has omitted that they may be using 2 types of ram. On the rumored leaked PS4 dev kit specs, they have 2 types of memory listed. 10gb of XDR2 (which is used for high end graphic cards and networking) and 10gb of GDDR5. Granted the amount of GDDR5 was reduced to 8gb, I bet they are still using XDR2 but not sure how much since they omitted that part.

http://www.ps3news.com/imag...

It would be completely stupid of Sony to just focus of Graphics RAM and not have any computation RAM. There is another ram source at least from a development stand point.

[TrendyGamers]

Shouldn't have to wait too long for the official 720 specs.

[princejb134]

microsoft cramming memory in as we speak

[Jaqen_Hghar]

A man pictures Bill gates with a pile of memory sticks and an Xbox just shoving them in there as it overflows lol

[ALLWRONG]

"microsoft cramming memory in as we speak" That wouldn't be a good thing for Sony.

[krisq]

640kb will do just fine :-)

[greenpowerz]

More like PS4 memory from 4 weeks ago vs PS4 memory boasted at the reveal.

PS4 had 4 gigs of ram a few weeks ago do we really need to hold the unannounced 720 to a different standard?

4 gigs of RAM on PS4 just weeks ago
http://www.vgleaks.com/worl...

Now Sony has 8 gigs of RAM boasted at a PS4 reveal without having any console prototypes built LMAO

So lets compare changed PS4 specs against the 720 rumors of our choosing with double standard logic to declare a victor LMAO

[Bumpmapping]

GDDR5 VS DDR3 Winner-Sony.

Play B3YOND.

[Gamer-40]

You play GDDR5 for the console? GDDR5 is a good game? Man..

Games very important, not only tech.

[bratman]

games are very important...
Man..ddr5 was a good game (;

[DonFreezer]

How the f*** is this a well said answer to the ligimate concerns the above gamer had?PS3 fanboys are so butthurt that they can't even reply something ontopic?He just says the the rumors turned false about ps4 and it's memory type and know we have a double standard and predict that Microsoft can not change anything because they have a prototype already built?And where did everyone read that Sony had a prototype with 8gb of ram and that the rumours were just plain wrong?Why can't the same happen to the 360 ps3 fanboys?

[shutUpAndTakeMyMoney]

Games vs no games Winner-Sony.
Free Multiplayer vs paid Multiplayer Winner-Sony
Casual focused vs core gamer focused Winner-Sony
Creative 1st party vs creative kinect focused 1st party Winner-Sony.

Play 4Ever.

[GribbleGrunger]

I've been saying all along that the two systems would be more or less equal in power. What matters is HOW that power is used and what that power will be focused on.

[GribbleGrunger]

Wow, 6 disagrees lol. What is so important about your console of choice that you can't bare the thought of another console being equal in power? Seriously people, the differences are going to be negligible but I don't give a damn. All I'm interested in is what these two companies have to offer. You're going to see equally impressive looking games from Microsoft for certain.

If you favour certain franchises then fair enough, but don't hope that one will be significantly more powerful than the other because you'll end up looking a little foolish. And remember (before the react instead of respond) I'm a Sony fan.

Edit: And you're disagreeing with Knight_Crawler too. I don't always agree with him but what he's written below is spot on. Regardless of which machine is the most powerful, 3rd parties will always code to the lowest common denominator anyway.

What will make the difference is how these two companies choose to use that power ... which brings me neatly back to my first point.

[Knight_Crawler]

Well said, the PS3 CELL was more powerful than what MS had inside the 360 and games like Uncharted, God of War, Killzone and GT5 was proof of the power of the CELL but MS managed to some how sell consoles regardless that the PS3 was more powerful had Blu Rey and free online.

The truth is that while each console can get the most out of exclusives, the real console sellers are 3rd party games which comes to my point that even if the PS4 is 10x more powerful than the 720 3rd party developers will make there games to fit both consoles which means that they have to cater for the lowest spec console and will not use the full power of the PS4.

[zebramocha]

@gribble I personally don't care if they are equal in power but reading threads on various sites,forums,suggest that the ps4 has a noticeable performance advantage over the 720 as of now.

[SDF Repellent]

Don't worry, remeber the PS3 specs when it was released, oh the Xbox 360 is doomed, blah blah blah...I am sure Microsoft will have a system just as powerful, it is only logical that itwi willl be. Remember this is not Sega or Nintendo we are talking about here, you are talking about a 800 lbs guerilla that can outright buy Sony if they wanted to. So what if Sony uses a faster ram,it is only part of the equation to a console..

I will no doubt await Microsoft' s reveal of its next console and get my daily comedy fix from PS fanboys hilarious comments in the meantime

[Muerte2494]

but GribbleGrunger is correct. I'm thinking they are going to be really close. PS4 is going a have a slight lead in memory and GPU Clock speed. What it's going to come down to, is software people. This is where Sony shines. Sony 1st and 2nd party share information. One studio takes an advancement another studio has made and improves on it.

But people need to be weary of Microsoft. They have shown that they can spot killer IPs. They usually try to lock the developers in with a trilogy contract(Bungie, Epic). I kind of like that approach because it guarantees that's the IP will remain exclusive to your console no matter the market.

[supraking951]

watch 720 do the opposite and show a prototype build but no specs cause it wont match Sony's LMAO
Sony showed the specs in the first reveal. New consoles dont do that usually. Sony threw specs and games out at us, the stuff that matters.

[messedupworld]

greenpowerz I don't know why you bother. You simply point something out using common sense and get a ridiculous amount of disagrees for it. This is a joke site overrun by a bunch of immature and irrational haters. It's ironic that they call themselves gamers.

[DoesUs]

Deary me, you just can't pipe down can you. I'll be watching your posts very closely once MS unveil. The amount of twisting and turning you're going to be doing will be a sight to behold.

[DoesUs]

@Don

"unless Microsoft has radically upgraded its graphics and memory configuration for Durango in the last nine months (an engineering nightmare unlikely to happen - it can't really add more chips as Sony has done)"

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

There are many many reports out there, confirmed by devs to be accurate, that the rumored Durango specs are accurate. No one's saying MS can't upgrade, they can but they will absolutely not launch in 2013, and even the first half of 2014. Their system is specifically built around a machine with 8 gig ddr3, with ESRam and the move engines there to try and compensate for the lackluster bandwidth ddr3 sports.

[a_bro]

so many feels on this thread... they never thought that sony would give developers the goods, now they're on damage control.

don't know why they should behave that way since everyone is now on a leveled playing field. Competition makes things better for everyone.

[FrigidDARKNESS]

Folks should be aware that the spexs from VGLeaks are from an early durango dev kit and havent been finalised. the Orbis specs have been finalised.
LLMAO AT THE DISAGREES BECAUSE I SAID THR VGLEAKS ARE ARE FROM A YESR AGO AND FROM AN EARLY DURANGO SDK.

[lovegames718]

Its not even the amount of RAM its the type of ram that the ps4 is using that gives it the advantage ddr5 is diff. From rumored ddr3 Durango ram

[josephayal]

I have seen rumors detailing the XBox 720 having 16 GB of RAM and double GTX 680 cards, not so bad tbh

[Munky]

Link?

[theDECAY]

He made that up, so he won't be able to provide that link. I'm sure most people on N4G would know of a Durango 16GB rumor if it was legitimate.

[Dasteru]

Even if he could provide a link, dual GTX 680s would make for an intresting $1200-1500 console.

[deSSy2724]

Here, link:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum...

[NastyLeftHook0]

there is none

[supraking951]

oh so cause Sony "leaked" Orbis specs were 4gb and then were confirmed double that, you think 720 "leaked" 8gb will now be doubled LMAO
Nice try

[Jaqen_Hghar]

A man believes 16gb of RAM would be complete overkill considering gaming PCs don't even use 16gb completely, and consoles don't use nearly as much RAM as PCs. 8gb of GDDR5 will most likely have around 6 for games at the beginning. 1080p 60fps with lightning fast app switching and navigation (most notably the store), multitasking (PS4 has promised this with background downloading and uploading in the middle of playing), and in game load times.

[silkrevolver]

How about we just wait until the thing is revealed, alright folks?

[Gamer-40]

Why wait the thing is revealed? This logical?
Now doomed the "thing"!

What? Dont understand?

Nothing revealed offical, but this site many people say: Now doomed new box. This absolutely objective? I dont think so.

[silkrevolver]

...WHAT?

[NeoTribe]

Somebody buy this kid rossetas stone. Stay in school kids.

[Gamer-40]

@NeoTribe

Easy neo-geo kid.
I 39 years old, but not american or english.

[Y_5150]

It's so stupid but funny!

[KwietStorm_BLM]

My head...

[AlphaJunk]

LMAO ??? ... I Lost????

[SpinalRemains138]

NextBox doom for maybe?
DDR5 RAM good but not xbox because site objective no.
I am feeling the horny now.

[LackTrue4K]

lol...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

[GraveLord]

Keep in mind that this article doesn't take into account the amount of memory reserved for the OS. Rumors point to Durango using 3Gb for OS, and PS4 using 512mb.

Like they said in the article, PS4's memory is unified and a lot more straight-forward. It easily wins as it doesn't resort to convoluted methods to make up for its weaknesses.

[mistertwoturbo]

You never know, some people believe Microsoft can change it to GDDR5 at the LAST MINUTE because they are MICROSOFT.

Kids I tell yah'

[imt558]

Hardly to expect this because console are in the final stages before mass production. If M$ will put another type of RAM or another GPU, that will delayed X720 for more than a 6 months.

[mistertwoturbo]

This is precisely my point. But speculation is getting long in the tooth, so let's see what they come up with when they announce it. Who knows, Microsoft might not even talk about hardware specs at all.

[Jek_Porkins]

Well we only have rumors to go on for the next Xbox, so you cant really say. I'd imagine they are pretty close and the third party games should be equal on both.

We know Microsoft and Sony want background downloads and two things going on at once, it wouldn't surprise me to see 4 gigs for OS and 4 gigs for gaming.

My only wish is that Nintendo would have slapped a few more gigs into the Wii U.

[Jaqen_Hghar]

A man doesn't care what a pilot believes. A pilot died without getting rid of a single tie fighter. A man believes PS4 will use 2gb max for OS (games shown at conference only had 1.5gb being used).

[StreetsofRage]

Man what really disturbs me is that these consoles aren't even going to be released till the end of this year and we're already getting tons of garbage websites with their juvenile journalism. UGH!

[jizzyjones]

LoL "Just like Chewbacca, that does not make sense"

Windows8 is rumoured to drink near 3Gb of it aswell

[BanBrother]

Windows 8 can drink donkey semen for all I care. It looks disgusting.

[hobohunterz]

Not true I have a laptop with 2gb of ram that flies on windows 8

[StrongMan]

The PS4 can go as much as it wants at the same time with 8gb of random access memory.

[SDF Repellent]

@Strongman,

Even if the PS4 uses 256k of DDR1 memory, somehow you will find a way to make it in Sony's favor. Oh..Strongman.

[Ritsujun]

Hello weakman

[jacksheen0000]

Sure, Sony's Ps4 RAM is faster than Microsoft's 720 RAM, but what everyone fail to realize is that Microsoft has one advantage over Sony Is software.

DirectX works with many advance tools that are readily compatible with out the gate.

For example, TressFX Hair works with DX11 although some are speculating the AMD's PhysX engine will have a hair component implemented. We will have to wait and see.

One more thing, the more efficient the tool are, the less bandwidth/speed it demands from the RAM.

http://hexus.net/tech/news/...

[hazardman]

Its seems from all the research I've been doing that the xbox 720 would need 16gb of DDR3 ram to match Sonys 8 DDR5. So I'm atleast hoping that's the case. Either way both for me day1!

[BanBrother]

Maybe you should......re-research? :-)

[hazardman]

I read an article on either her or nea gaf can't remember where someone said it was like 1gb ddr5=2gb Ddr3. I meant memory wise tho not that it makes up for the how much faster the ddr5 is. So I understand where your coming from. Just worded it wrong..

[kB0]

I could see Durango going to GDDR5 or splint in order to regulate the latency issues of GDDR5. I highly doubt they will do 16 GB of Ram though...anything more than 8 GB will be over kill and waste of resources. They would be better off adding more clocks for the cpu or gpu at that rate...or add more SP.

In the end it all comes down to programmer optimizations, much like we've seen with the PS3 and first party games...the difference now is that pS4 will feature more robust and dev friendly hardware (actually A LOT more dev friendly)

In this case, microsoft is making things too complicated for devs, giving them so many choices to allocate things in ram, instead of leaving a general norm.

Let's hope they retweak the hardware so we can see an even split between the 2 consoles. It would be nice to see the only difference being the interface between the 2:)

I'm little worried about PC gaming at this point, because the old consoles had more than 7 times less ram, and for crap ports of console games meant us PC gamers using up way more than ram than we need too...Hopefully with the consoles so close to PC hardware, we will see proper easy optimizations...so we don't have to have 32 GB of ram to run crappy ports:)

[airshiraz]

i think ms has some really big surprises for gamers not only a new more powerful console but a revolution like kinnect

[jocomat9]

your ass just hung a vacancy sign and my foot is looking for a room.

[amiga-man]

Oh I have no doubt M$ have plenty of surprises coming like not allowing you to trade games, always online and probably an increased live subscription and still there will xbox zombies that would defend it.

[Jazz4108]

Just wait till ms announces it as amiga you are just assuming and you know what that means. God help us till we have an official announcement as fanboys are just that, little boys.

[amiga-man]

Jazz with all respect as much as the first two are rumoured the fact microsoft take away your internet forcing you to pay to get it back there is no doubt microsoft would love to put the first two place, the only thing that may stop them is the outcry from xbox owners it's a shame the same outcry wasn't heard when they took away their internet if they had they would now have free internet like everyone else exactly how it should be.

[FreshRevenge]

Does it matter, what the specs our? It doesn't do Microsoft any good if they do have more RAM than Sony or a better graphics chips, if they don't have any developers making use of it. Sony has pushed the limits of the PS2 a few times over; when most developers said nothing can else be done with the system.

Plus if Microsoft waited for Sony to reveal their specs, so they can whip up a super console by E3. I just foresee a RROD or poor manufacturing, just to get their system out in time to rival with Sony!

[Dragos75]

The type of RAM means diddly squat. Neither will use it all for games anyway.

[kB0]

Type of ram is absolutely important...why do you speak if you don't know?

Specs of ram can be the difference between steaming textures properly and not, cases seen in Rage (IDtech engine).

How can you say ram speed means diddly squat? This isn't the same as PC where you might see a minimal difference in frequency, this ram needs to both handle graphical processes and computing, 2 completely different beasts.

Have you seen laptop Graphic cards? GDDR5 vs DDR3 could mean pretty significant difference in frames.

Let's say if it's as small as 5 fps...that could mean the difference between 30 fps stable and 25 fps.

Good example in terms of Graphics:
http://www.gaminglaptopsjun...

Plz research before posting!

[Dragos75]

Dude please. I didn't say RAM wasn't important. These are consoles and not PCs. MS can get the same performance or maybe even better depending on how EVERYTHING works together. It's all about design.

[kB0]

I'll quote you:
"The type of RAM means diddly squat."

What exactly does that translate to you?

Computer or not, hardware works on the same level. Yes the devs can def make something work for any hardware, but you can't possibly be that narrow minded to think that ram types don't matter.

As for your everything works together, yes thats the basis of computers.

You seem to be selling the obvious and getting agrees. It's like me stating the sky is blue during the day and dark during night. I mean yes science support this, but ur just giving those types of answers.

Should I try that too?

Ram speed is when the hardware supports those speeds.

LOL

Also your actual statement is flawed:
"please. I didn't say RAM wasn't important. These are consoles and not PCs. MS can get the same performance or maybe even better depending on how EVERYTHING works together. It's all about design."

That would be like saying that if they had a better cpu it would be faster. Well yes when comapred to CPU ram does offer insignificant differences, but if we start disecting the possibilities we could say the Xbox can be packed with a i3 Crappy cpu, but then compensate with a 680 GTX lol. I mean at high resolution the CPU does very minimal anyways....

So really I don't understand what your arguing?

The fact that ram doesn't matter or the actually hardware of the durango? Because thats not up for debate here...seeing as we're talking about RAM, and your first post was completely See through and vague.

[Pillsbury1]

The 8gb of ram is a nice bonus. Sony brings the amazing exclusive games ALONG with the latest tech.

[C0MPUT3R]

SONY has put MS in a tough spot.
.
Option 1) Release Durango in 2013 with weaker hardware.
.
Option 2) Redesign Durango with a more powerful GPU & GDDR5 RAM, causing the system to be delayed to 2014. Thus giving the PS4 a 6-8 month headstart.
.
I think MS will just trudge forward with the weaker hardware, and spend more on advertising, and go for a lower launch price.

[AO1JMM]

I'll compare specs when msft actually reveals thiers. Until then I refuse to take these discussions seriously.

[SlavisH2]

once people understand rumored means nothing they will see this article means nothing, lol. Slow news day so why not speculate on speculation! The only ones how can enjoy this are they fangirls :P

[SITH]

There was an article earlier talking about the specs ps4 has that PCs do not. I have an x86 mother board, and DDR5 ram in my GTX 690. Things that article said PC gamers do not have.

[worldwidegaming]

I am sure this will be fixed. Adding ram is never an difficult issue. But its going to be a monster generation!
Pc games do not even use that much in games unless your using High res with everything on.
I Think 4gb will be used in most games with the rest being used for cool stuff like watching a friends game while your in the middle of yours etc.
I have never seen a game eat more than 2.5gb on my rig (i have 16gb)
And thats with the game maxed out.
You can never have too much ram!

[Qrphe]

People act like there'll be a huger disparity between the PS4 and 361 when that probably won't be the case.

[dangerousjo44]

so what x720 specs are still on par with ps4 and their both putting money into motion gaming dont matter hard core games well be even better with the new power of move and kinect wait and see. already the next splinter cell with old kinect is making dev and fans shit their pants from how cool it is to order airstrikes with your voice and not a buttion while u still use your normal controller

[dangerousjo44]

u know whats funny the ps4 and the supposed x720 specs are closer together then the x360 and ps3 and look how close all games look in graphics lol

[Munky]

From what I have read, as it stands now... The Ps4 is quite a bit ahead of the rumoured specs of the Nextbox in terms of RAM and the GPU, the rest is pretty much a wash..

[Munky]

To anybody who knows... If switching to DDR5 this late in the development cycle is to difficult, what's stopping MS from increasing the amount of DDR3 RAM to even out the playing field? And I'm not saying doubling the amount as was suggested earlier, I mean like increasing it to 10GB or 12GB... You get my drift. Would the cost be to high? Would the amount of RAM sockets on the MB take to much room? Please educate me. :)

[Strange_Evil]

It's not the amount of RAM that matters here, it's actually the type of RAM that really matters. GDDR5 RAM (one in PS4), is nearly 3x faster than DDR3 (Durango Memory). Slapping in more memory won't help the case here.

A PC is as fast as it's slowest component. The DDR3 RAM is a bottleneck for Durango. MS's way to offset this is by including a 32MB SRAM which is a high speed cache which could 'theoretically' life the performance to near PS4 mark, but there is a huge difference between 'theoretical' and 'practical'. PS4 uses a simplistic approach... One expensive rocket that is fast... 720 seems like a dozen of smaller cheaper rockets and is hoping to fire them all at once to get near the performance of the bigger one... Jumping through such hoops can be dangerous... Just look at the PS3... It had the same story and it was a development nightmare...not saying the same will be true for the 720, but it could be the case where it is not always possible to get all of the things firing in sync.

Just adding in RAM isn't the answer. 8GB is more than enough for at least the next 4-5 years and i don't feel developers will need more as it's quiet an overkill. To give you the perspective, Killzone 4 running on the PS4 is rumoured to be just using 1.5GB of the fast RAM. As they didn't have newer dev kits. So if that 8GB number is increased to 16Gb, it wold be of no use if the developers themselves don't use that much.

On the other hand, faster RAM would mean slower load times and zippier OS. Another thing to note is that PS4's RAM is unified. I don't know how the 720's RAM is gonna be, but unified RAM is always better.

[Fatal-Aim]

I asled myself this same question, and do you know what I came up with? A rock and a had place.

Ok, it is rumored by very trusted sources that the 720's UI is going to be a memory hog due to MS aiming to make the console a full blown media device while running apps paralle to one another. Hence the part where the system is suppose to run multiple games at one time.

On the other hand, Sony's system is say to do less, which, in the end, consumes less RAM.

So not only is the RAM hampered by apps, the RAM is far slower than Sony's RAM as it is, which gives developers less to work with in-game.

To add insult to injury, MS is trying to ship the next Xbox with Kinect 2.0 and possibly even the Illumiroom device and 3D glasses, which is going to already make the console expensive enough to produce. By introducing more DDR3 RAM only adds to that cost. Now, I am not saying that they are not going to do it, but if they are expecting to keep the price competitive and the package attractive to the consumer while obtaining a decent profit from it, is where I believe they may have their biggest problem. Either that or MS may have to exclude certain feature/standards that they originally had planned for the console at launch. Which takes me back to Sony......

apparently, they have MS beat on GPU/APU to CPU performance, ease of development and thus far RAM too. Then there are the new capabilities of the controller which may ship with the eye standard, adding to a greater set of toys for developers to work with in their already robust package.

Now again, I'm not saying that MS won't beef up the RAM, but if MS had any plans at matching anything Sony threw at them to make their console more attactive to developers, today their luck may have run out.

[Enigma_2099]

fer chrissakes... the systems aren't even out yet, and you've already started with these articles?

[dangerousjo44]

if ur getting a ps4 u should go sign up for shitty crappy ustream so u see its far from as good as youtube lol

[fullmetal297]

RAM is a less important component when it comes to the GPU and I'm really more interested in what GPU will the next Xbox have. If Microsoft opted for 16gb of DDR3 but decided to pair it with a really high-end GPU like the HD7950, then it would defiantly outweigh the 70 mb/s difference in memory speed.

[landog]

they could go with 4gb ddr3, a way better/faster quad core cpu and a way better gpu and it would face stomp the ps4

will they, hell no, they'll just match the ram (which matters least out of gpu,cpu, ram) and put a mediocre cpu and gpu like ps4

[black911]

The difference will be minimal. Only 1st party exclusive will see a slight advantage. As we all know Microsoft doesn't have any except Halo,Gears and Forza.

[ashcroft]

I think Microsoft will match the memory. In order for them to outperform the ps4, they would need to put a higher end gpu. The ps4 can only do 30fps at 1080p, so MS still has time to enhance the cpu and gpu to achieve 60fps.

I don't think MS will have THE games, with the exception of halo,forza and gears and maybe Alan wake... but that's not to say they can't match or surpass the ps4 in performance...there's still quite a bit of time.

[MRMagoo123]

It is evident you have no clue about hardware at all and are dribbling forward bs please refrain from doing that in the future so you look not as stupid thanks.

[ashcroft]

I actually know about hardware more than you. But I am preaching to the wrong crowd. Afterall n4g is very pro-sony and even something that may be considered slighlty negative, people on here tend to want to mash the disagree or try to prove you wrong.

It's up to the developers, sure...but there's a thing called a bottleneck...you can probably try going at 60fps and it will lag ...you can't put that much power at a affordable price.

Learn about tech, the business and about common sense. I look forward to the uneducated whiney little girls who spam the disagree button when their mighty lord is taken down a few pegs.

n4g = news 4 gays....stick with neogaf if you want a legit gaming community that have members that actually have reached puberty.

[imt558]

... The ps4 can only do 30fps at 1080p, so MS still has time to enhance the cpu and gpu to achieve 60fps...."

You really believe that PS4 will run games at 30 fps at 1080p???:) It's developers decision, not the capability of the PS4.

[jack who]

so whos will to bet how much off the ps4 spec is gona change by the time it comes out? like the ps3 did.

[MRMagoo123]

I shall wait and see what the next xbox has inside before judging how it is, but if the rumours are anything to go by ps4 is pretty far ahead.

[Shacojin]

I can't wait to see all that extra power Microsoft is going to put into the next Xbox and see next Gen games such as Halo! Gears of War and Forza.... Microsoft get some new IPs already... or at least tell Rare to bring back Killer Instinct

[Sh0ckWav3]

how about a new, mechassult,crimson skies and phantom dust...

[kingPoS]

They both have the same amount of ram. The 360 & ps3 also has the same amount, but shared different architectures. This right here is the same difference!

They'll both each have strengths & weaknesses, what they'll be... remains to seen.

[JeepGamer]

There was little if any discernible difference between the PS2 and the Xbox unless it was a case of poorly done porting.

There was little if any discernible difference between the PS3 and the 360 unless it was a case of poorly done porting.

Go ahead, guess what the discernible difference between the PS4 and 720 will be... Just guess.

[Kennesu]

Welcome to the Ram wars...

[DivineAssault]

MS may be rethinking their strategy now that sony gave em a peak of their cards.. Maybe not either & they go in all the way with this whole illumiroom kinect thing.. An entertainment hub for multiple media options with unique functionality is prolly the best thing for them to do..

Going toe to toe with sony for core gamers might be an uphill battle for them.. Games 1st, media 2nd is what i want.. MS seems to be doing the opposite which will attract customers but a different type.. People who only play shooters & or casuals, will prolly go with MS nx gen due to the simplicity more media app focused style.. Hardcore gamers that buy systems to play the latest n greatest multi genre games will go Sony & see the media functionality as an added bonus..

90% of the time i turn on my systems are to PLAY GAMES.. Others may watch hulu or netflix 90% of the time they turn theirs on..

[CC-Tron]

......or Sony rethought their strategy after getting rumored info on what MS had in the 720. Hence the 8 gigs of RAM but no console. Who knows? I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Sony delays their supposed holiday 2013 launch.

[MasterCornholio]

" Hence the 8 gigs of RAM but no console"

Not showing the console has nothing to do with it. Sony could have shown an empty box if they wanted to but they didnt because the actual design of the console isnt finalized. I personally dont believe that Sony will delay the launch for the PS4 but im not expecting a global launch either. My predictions is that the USA and Japan get the console first followed by the rest of the world in march.

What i do find really odd is Microsofts silence though especially since the supposed unveiling event of the 720 will take place behind closed doors.

[Droid Control]

What if M$ included 10GB of DDR3 RAM?
How would THAT compare to Sony's 8GB of DDR5?

[Sh0ckWav3]

so let me get this straight..you guys say ps4 will mop the xbox infinity memmory? ps4 mem runs at 176 gb xbx runs at 170 gbs , thats not a big of a deal.. so let ask the experts ...if MS decides to go with ddr5 + 32 esram would that mean they are gonna mop the floor on the ps4 memmory?

[KillrateOmega]

Console warfare for dayz :P

[dcbronco]

I think the key is that no one really knows. There have been many leaks of many different things and I'm not sure the developers even know what the final builds will be. They know the basics so that they can program for the consoles. But not the final strength of the consoles.

Everyone is making paper estimates. A lot of people have made paper estimates in the past. Sony did when they thought the Cell could act as the GPU and CPU. Then they made the chip and added the RSX. Intel did when they designed Larrabee. Then they made the chip and dropped the entire thing. AMD did when they designed their first APUs. Then they launched them and they didn't meet expectations.

So let's wait to see which console will be more powerful. Not even the experts seem to be able to read them properly on paper.

[cyhm3112]

Microsoft is just like a dead rat in a bowl of rice. It ruins the gaming industry. They should release a more powerful gaming machine instead of a stupid kinect-focused machine. Xbox next is about half the power of PS4, it lowers the lowest denominator of gaming development.

[jakmckratos]

I'll care when th legit console gets released. And even then I won't care that much. Sony promised to end load times..I don't think it gets much better than that.

[gdguide]

Even if MS could change DDR3 to GDR5 to react to the PS4, I'm not sure they would make the change this close to release. It totally completely changes the cost to put out the unit, and also changes the contracts they probably have in place to change to this kind of way more specialized RAM. I'd love to be wrong on this, but If MS has any plans of releasing this at the end of the year, they will probably will have to have this plan in place months before the PS4 announcement.

[Thepcz]

sony fans are getting ahead of themselves with excitement and could well be left feeling like wiiu fans if microsoft come with something even more powerful than ps4

[Thepharaoh]

So a console whose full details are not official vs. a console none of us are sure even exists? Seems legit

[Tzuno]

Even with 8gb of ddr3 ram Microsoft will deliver all that ram is more than enough. Games don't use that much. Say whatever you say i don't bother anymore.

[OSIRUSSS]

Man! Sony really got into the Xboys heads on the 20th. The panic is thick here. It smells delish!

[GiantFriendlyCrab]

i can say this; multiplats games will look nearly identical on ps4 and xb720

[deanobi]

The new xbox will destroy the PS4 (trust me).

[kevnb]

who cares? we know ram wont be the bottle neck this time, so lets talk about something else.

[TheKayle]

well i understand that this guy who wrote the article isnt very techy...but here is all good explained of how the durando with dme reach 170 gb/s vs 176 gb/s (ps4) without having the latency problem of the gddr5 (ps4)

http://www.microsofttransla...

[Max-Zorin]

Are people really arguing about Ram? I have seen it all.