Earlier, we analyzed the PS4′s memory bandwidth and compared it to the PS3. Sony’s use of GDDR5 is a bold move, given the price tag. But it could very well give it a leg up in this latest generation of the console war. -PSLS
http://www.playstationlifes... Anyway, the PS4 looks dev friendly with the amount of RAM, I can't wait till E3
A direct link: http://cdn1-www.playstation...
It will be difficult to match the RAM Sony has without Microsoft going all out and getting 16GB of DDR3 RAM, at 68-107 GB/s they've got a long way to go to match Sony's 176 GB/s. Hopefully the next Xbox won't get dorked, because it may mean Sony's console gets limited anyway, as Microsoft will be sure to include in its contracts that games can't look substantially better on other platforms other than its own.
hopefully the RAM will significantly reduce load times in games
What if MS puts faster EDRAM like on xbox, 256GB/s bandwith in combination with lower latency ddr3?
@delboy their is no point to that if the GPU/CPU are not designed to take advantage of that. the 8G of DDR5 on the PS4 were thought to be overkill until the CPU/GPU details revealed that they would be put to use.
@ Delboy, they already are rumored to be using 32mb of EDRAM, however even then it won't get around the bandwidth limitation completely, as you will still be bottlenecked by the fact that you can only fit 32mb's of data into that high speed EDRAM, and even with it's bandwidth combined with the DDR3's bandwidth you still won't even come as high as PS4's GDDR5 bandwidth is. The combined bandwidth of the DDR3 and EDRAM on "Durango" should be ignored anyway, as it represents an absolute best case scenario and will never be realized in real world usage. As for GDDR5's latency, gaming isn't harmed as much by memory latency (which is why modern GPU's use GDDR5) as other types of computing are, so it won't make much difference. In gaming, bandwidth, not latency, is king.
@ sobekflakmonkey Do you think Sony is better? They are all, as you say, cunts. Its not about Sony vs MS. People have to realise its us vs them. They want to rip us off our money, they lie, they mislead us and manipulate. We have to show them ALL a finger.
microsoft now can easily make same specs as PS4... and that wouldn't hurt anyone in the end, and ports would be fast, easy and good looking!!
720 is rumoured to have 100Gb bandwith RAM. ps4 has 174GB ? WiiU has at least 200GB due to the huge amount of eDRAM,Nintendo really did go for a memory intensive design,40MB eDRAM on the MCM,plus some SRAM and couple this with main RAM wow prob around 220GB.
@falcon79 N4G should add an: no idea what their talking about bubble, just for you
Does anyone know anything about PC architecture? GDDR5 is vastly different from DDR3/4. DDR you can use for more than just graphics hence the G in GDDR. Graphics memory is cheap. You can get a sub 100 dollar video card with enough GDDR. Different mechanics. sony has allocated ALL their ram for graphics so ai and multi-tasking wont be as good as traditional ram. It would be like taking the ram out of pretty much any video card out and using that as your ram. Why does anyone think that AMD is powerful? Am I the only one who doesn't buy into the bs? I mean even a second gen core i5 2500k would run circles around an AMD 8 core clocked at 1.6 ghz. I may be skipping next gen if MS follows the same suit. Laptop components that will already be out before the system launches?! No thanks! Besides the 7970m was already being used in MACS over a year ago! You call that next gen? Don't buy into their bs. Want nextgen? Build a gaming pc or get one of your buddies to do it for you. Sheesh!!!!
Exactly, this is being way over hyped, especially the GDDR5 memory. You can only do so much with it until it gets bottlenecked by the weak CPU and possibly GPU as well.
Lets wait for ms to confirm the specs, not long before sonys announcement it was reported that ps4 will have 4gb ram and than we found out about 8. I hope ms at least matches what Sony is offering ram wise
From neogaf and beyon3d forums,they stay it is easier for Sony to add more ram than it is for Ms to make any architectural changes,other than ram.
MS probably keep specs slightly lower but also keep the price cheaper than the ps4. I doubt they gonna have the same memory as ps4. I also doubt they gonna cost more than the ps4. Durango will be equal or cheaper than ps4. Probably $50-$100 cheaper. Same strategy as the xbox360.
Kreate I don't think it's gonna matter if ps4 is priced $50 more just look at this gen $600 bucks yet still outsold the xbox360 even with a year ahead start and a higher price for ps3 at launch As long as gamers see value in the machine they don't mind spending a little extra Btw Maybe this is why Sony hasn't shown the box and after ms conference they can make more changes if needed but that's just a guess
I wouldn't be so sure if it'll be cheaper. They invested quite a bit in that chip . We'll see if it can deliver. I think it's more expensive to design/build than PS4 straight forward approach. The RAM is cheaper, yes. And, you can only reach the 170GB/sec with operations where you have two source reads from both DDR and ESRAM which basically doubles the data path; and only if you don't write the result back. But this will be a very rare case. DDR latency is lower...
Let's not forget that we are talking about memory here, the real question here should be .." does it or will it matter whether or not MS adds memory to the console for what they want to do with the nextxbox". 8gbs of ddr3 is suffient in most rigs with specs that are close to what the nextbox should be. Will it really matter if ms added more ram for what MS plan on doing with their next console? I personally doubt it. Numbers on paper maybe different then how the console will actually preform. Is 8gb of ddr3 suffient or would more ram just be over kill? It's to late now for ddr5 unless they planed that from the start, and unless the o/s supports more then 8gb ddr3 there is no changing now anyway. Unless MS delay their next console , they maybe stuck with what they have.
Can someone with more knowledge inform me on why desktop computers do not have gddr5 memories and ps4 does.If it's so important to have GDDR5 ram why don't pc hardware makers make the same type of ram for the pc too?
Because it's not important. GPU's have it. The rest doesn't need it.
All the figures so far have been developer's kits not retail you bunch of glory hunters,the 8GB is the dev-kits ie 4GB retail double WiiU,so 4GB in retail means 2GB for games,2GB OS not once in any statement have they said the retail ps4's will have 8GB's ???? it's why they had 1.5GB for Killzone normally they woul get 2GB going off 8GB devkits,WiiU devkits have 4GB's,half this for retail. But take in mind that even with retail getting half it still equates to devs being able to build games on the dev-kit specs and just compress it all down to retail that's what they do'i guarantee you ps4 games will get made with 8GB and compressed down to 2GB,WiiU games will get built with 4GB and compressed down to 1GB,it's how it works,although Nintendo could allow 1.5GB in the future either way their wont be a big difference in scale from ps4 exclusives to say WiiU exclusives due to this ?
@falcon: Are you stupid? Sony stood up on stage and listed off the specs. Why would they bother telling Devs about dev kits many studios already have? If that's not enough, from the official PS4 page on us.playstation.com: https://secure.webassets.sc... Not to mention that time and time again the comment has came up that the WiiU is underpowered by its own controller. Even running the WiiU requires roughly half it's own RAM. That's the cost of having a tablet controller with nothing in it, something MS and Sony wont have the same problems with since Kinect, Vita, and other accessories already have their own processors and what not. PS4 & "Durango" won't be stuck in the same box as the WiiU or even close to it, this much is already clear.
Why does everyone tout ram as if it's miraculously make or break the console. 8gbs is complete overkill in lieu of the other specs in the PS4 and Microsoft could stick with 4gbs and there wouldn't be any negligible differences... More ram is always good though just to argue with myself but it would be even more redundant if the new consoles make use of Tessellated LOD which is by far the best features the new consoles should be capable of.
TBH I don't see gaming devs getting complete access of 8GB RAM. I bet at least 1/4 of that is reserved for something other than main gaming.
I would sympathize with your feelings if at the start of this generation there wasn't the same scrutiny towards the PS3's ram vs the unified one in the 360. So yes we should simply wait for MS to announce the next Xbox, but those websites need hits so you can't definitely throw that concept out the door right now. So my advice to you is to sit back and enjoy show. @tubers, Wouldn't the same be true for the Rumored Durango? Proportionally the advantages/disadvantages would be the exact same if you reserved 1/4 of the memory from both system.
It's because the PS4 is rumored to have more RAM than the next Xbox. Therefore, RAM is suddenly the most important detail of the new consoles. Of course, any technical aspect in which the next Xbox beats the PS4 will be dismissed as unimportant and meaningless.
The PS4 was never rumored to have more RAM. Most expected the PS4 to have only 4, but the faster RAM. Now both have the same, but 8GB GDDR5 were quite unexpected.
@ cupid The PS3 was horrid piece of equipment... that's not me talking, that's multiple devs and even Gabe Newell humself. Mentioning that, it is impressive what the first parties have squeezed out of it and with no doubt in my mind it's obvious that it would've had more potential had they gone with that unified architecture instead of splitting up every little thing up. PS4 is making that up big time but their gloating about the amount of ram while the rest of the specs hardly give a rise. I'm pretty sure Microsoft will respond with 8gbs come E3 or something but their specs are almost identical give or take a few things. Just a little insight... I know things always change but as it stands right now I can max a game out on my PC without even touching 4.5gbs out of my 8gbs, BF3 64player included. I bet a majority of the ram being used in the consoles will go towards social aspects tied into the OS... it's a waiting game to know for sure though.
" I bet a majority of the ram being used in the consoles will go towards social aspects tied into the OS... it's a waiting game to know for sure though." I don't mean to be disrespectful, but what load of nonsense son you're spouting son... THE MAJORITY of 8GBs of RAM on a console will be used by the OS? Meanwhile your games maxed out on your PC barely uses half of your 8GBs you say? Meanwhile in reality land....The PS4 comes equipped with a secondary Processor for Social Aspect such as streaming and download and stuff, as STATE BY SONY.......
**STATED** by Sony...
essentially it would ensure that you could run multiple applications at the same time...maybe even multiple games. but for it to dramatically affect graphics and/or gameplay? c'mon..
RAM won't even figure much if the Next Xbox has a considerably slower GPU as has been stated.
Your right with S3TC u can essentially turn 1GB TO 4/6GB SO WHO CARES.
So real vs... not real?
I'm with the author of the article. I'm a little bit confused as to how the RAM cache within the GDDR3 RAM just gets to add the two speeds together to produce 170gb/s. This implies dedicated pipelines for both the cache and main RAM with the ability for the GPU to accept data from both concurrently. Generally the cache just gets data from the main memory in an effort to allow commonly used data to have faster access times. Which means that data in cache is just duplicated from main ram. I don't know that both the cache and main ram's speeds can just be added together, that isn't really how caches are used in computers. Even if they had dedicated pipelines for each you still couldn't just add the numbers together, there would be some considerable overhead for the GPU to manage. Oh well, it's a rumor anyway, so it's all conjecture.
That's a pure theoretical value under the assumption you load two sources with 68GB + 100GB/s - which simple uses the amount of data as a multiplier (say, you move 2x 64bit floats which means you can transfer 128bit with 68+100 = ~170GB). For the bean counters. And yes, those two memory channels run independent. MoveEngines can move data into ESRAM while GPU moves them within ESRAM - for this to work one source must be DDR the other ESRAM - and I would think you store it in a register?? But, it's BS math, because even if true, you can't do anything with the 100GB transfer until your 68GB transfer is ready - which "theoretically" drops this to 2x68 = ~140GB. Splitting hair here. Well, true is, to move the same amount of data in GDDR you need to serialize those 2 values, but still, it is 176GB/s to move the exact same amount of data.
It's an incorrect calculation, considering the RAM cache is only 32 Megabytes big. Once those megabytes are transferred to the processor, the RAMs bandwidth is again limited by DDR3 as it's attempting to fill the 32 Megabytes up again. The cache is more likely to be used for small but performance critical operations, as well as AA in games. Adding the bandwidth of the two memory chips together however is absolutely meaningless.
Sony has omitted that they may be using 2 types of ram. On the rumored leaked PS4 dev kit specs, they have 2 types of memory listed. 10gb of XDR2 (which is used for high end graphic cards and networking) and 10gb of GDDR5. Granted the amount of GDDR5 was reduced to 8gb, I bet they are still using XDR2 but not sure how much since they omitted that part. http://www.ps3news.com/imag... It would be completely stupid of Sony to just focus of Graphics RAM and not have any computation RAM. There is another ram source at least from a development stand point.
Shouldn't have to wait too long for the official 720 specs.
microsoft cramming memory in as we speak
A man pictures Bill gates with a pile of memory sticks and an Xbox just shoving them in there as it overflows lol
"microsoft cramming memory in as we speak" That wouldn't be a good thing for Sony.
640kb will do just fine :-)
MS fanboys love that kinect thing...omg...
More like PS4 memory from 4 weeks ago vs PS4 memory boasted at the reveal. PS4 had 4 gigs of ram a few weeks ago do we really need to hold the unannounced 720 to a different standard? 4 gigs of RAM on PS4 just weeks ago http://www.vgleaks.com/worl... Now Sony has 8 gigs of RAM boasted at a PS4 reveal without having any console prototypes built LMAO So lets compare changed PS4 specs against the 720 rumors of our choosing with double standard logic to declare a victor LMAO
GDDR5 VS DDR3 Winner-Sony. Play B3YOND.
You play GDDR5 for the console? GDDR5 is a good game? Man.. Games very important, not only tech.
games are very important... Man..ddr5 was a good game (;
How the f*** is this a well said answer to the ligimate concerns the above gamer had?PS3 fanboys are so butthurt that they can't even reply something ontopic?He just says the the rumors turned false about ps4 and it's memory type and know we have a double standard and predict that Microsoft can not change anything because they have a prototype already built?And where did everyone read that Sony had a prototype with 8gb of ram and that the rumours were just plain wrong?Why can't the same happen to the 360 ps3 fanboys?
Games vs no games Winner-Sony. Free Multiplayer vs paid Multiplayer Winner-Sony Casual focused vs core gamer focused Winner-Sony Creative 1st party vs creative kinect focused 1st party Winner-Sony. Play 4Ever.
I've been saying all along that the two systems would be more or less equal in power. What matters is HOW that power is used and what that power will be focused on.
Wow, 6 disagrees lol. What is so important about your console of choice that you can't bare the thought of another console being equal in power? Seriously people, the differences are going to be negligible but I don't give a damn. All I'm interested in is what these two companies have to offer. You're going to see equally impressive looking games from Microsoft for certain. If you favour certain franchises then fair enough, but don't hope that one will be significantly more powerful than the other because you'll end up looking a little foolish. And remember (before the react instead of respond) I'm a Sony fan. Edit: And you're disagreeing with Knight_Crawler too. I don't always agree with him but what he's written below is spot on. Regardless of which machine is the most powerful, 3rd parties will always code to the lowest common denominator anyway. What will make the difference is how these two companies choose to use that power ... which brings me neatly back to my first point.
Well said, the PS3 CELL was more powerful than what MS had inside the 360 and games like Uncharted, God of War, Killzone and GT5 was proof of the power of the CELL but MS managed to some how sell consoles regardless that the PS3 was more powerful had Blu Rey and free online. The truth is that while each console can get the most out of exclusives, the real console sellers are 3rd party games which comes to my point that even if the PS4 is 10x more powerful than the 720 3rd party developers will make there games to fit both consoles which means that they have to cater for the lowest spec console and will not use the full power of the PS4.
@gribble I personally don't care if they are equal in power but reading threads on various sites,forums,suggest that the ps4 has a noticeable performance advantage over the 720 as of now.
Don't worry, remeber the PS3 specs when it was released, oh the Xbox 360 is doomed, blah blah blah...I am sure Microsoft will have a system just as powerful, it is only logical that itwi willl be. Remember this is not Sega or Nintendo we are talking about here, you are talking about a 800 lbs guerilla that can outright buy Sony if they wanted to. So what if Sony uses a faster ram,it is only part of the equation to a console.. I will no doubt await Microsoft' s reveal of its next console and get my daily comedy fix from PS fanboys hilarious comments in the meantime
but GribbleGrunger is correct. I'm thinking they are going to be really close. PS4 is going a have a slight lead in memory and GPU Clock speed. What it's going to come down to, is software people. This is where Sony shines. Sony 1st and 2nd party share information. One studio takes an advancement another studio has made and improves on it. But people need to be weary of Microsoft. They have shown that they can spot killer IPs. They usually try to lock the developers in with a trilogy contract(Bungie, Epic). I kind of like that approach because it guarantees that's the IP will remain exclusive to your console no matter the market.
watch 720 do the opposite and show a prototype build but no specs cause it wont match Sony's LMAO Sony showed the specs in the first reveal. New consoles dont do that usually. Sony threw specs and games out at us, the stuff that matters.
greenpowerz I don't know why you bother. You simply point something out using common sense and get a ridiculous amount of disagrees for it. This is a joke site overrun by a bunch of immature and irrational haters. It's ironic that they call themselves gamers.
Deary me, you just can't pipe down can you. I'll be watching your posts very closely once MS unveil. The amount of twisting and turning you're going to be doing will be a sight to behold.
@Don "unless Microsoft has radically upgraded its graphics and memory configuration for Durango in the last nine months (an engineering nightmare unlikely to happen - it can't really add more chips as Sony has done)" http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... There are many many reports out there, confirmed by devs to be accurate, that the rumored Durango specs are accurate. No one's saying MS can't upgrade, they can but they will absolutely not launch in 2013, and even the first half of 2014. Their system is specifically built around a machine with 8 gig ddr3, with ESRam and the move engines there to try and compensate for the lackluster bandwidth ddr3 sports.
so many feels on this thread... they never thought that sony would give developers the goods, now they're on damage control. don't know why they should behave that way since everyone is now on a leveled playing field. Competition makes things better for everyone.
Folks should be aware that the spexs from VGLeaks are from an early durango dev kit and havent been finalised. the Orbis specs have been finalised. LLMAO AT THE DISAGREES BECAUSE I SAID THR VGLEAKS ARE ARE FROM A YESR AGO AND FROM AN EARLY DURANGO SDK.
Its not even the amount of RAM its the type of ram that the ps4 is using that gives it the advantage ddr5 is diff. From rumored ddr3 Durango ram
I have seen rumors detailing the XBox 720 having 16 GB of RAM and double GTX 680 cards, not so bad tbh
He made that up, so he won't be able to provide that link. I'm sure most people on N4G would know of a Durango 16GB rumor if it was legitimate.
Even if he could provide a link, dual GTX 680s would make for an intresting $1200-1500 console.