GamersNexus: "AMD's APUs have proliferated with ferocity over the past year or so; now making up about 75% of the company's total chip sales, AMD seems to be investing more seriously in what was previously considered a niche market. We don't suspect just APU sales could support a monolithic company like AMD (at least, not in its current form), but the recent launch of the PS4 and impending promise of an AMD APU-driven Steam Box and Xbox could mean good things for the company."
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Can't wait to see what naughty dog and santa monica will do with PlayStation 4 !
Nothing to be impressed about.
Comparing the tech between consoles and pc is like collecting trophies. It's just to show off. The main reason we play is for games not which one is better. That's why some people still play mario/ps1/ps2 games.. etc
I still want to play dark cloud and spyro even though they are old games. So gaming is not only about graphics and limitation. These things only evolve gaming
And that will be good, not only for sony and the playstation brand, but also for gaming as a whole because more interesting games will come out, so even if you aren't planning on getting a PS4 or are not exactly amazed by the specs, you should be looking on at the release of the PS4 with at least some interest.
The APU may be nowhere near as powerful as any modern GPU on PCs but with the low TDP its achieving and the low level access developers have, its pretty impressive.
Undeniably true.
BUT the key words there are 'equivalent hardware'.
Already any decent PC desktop quad is a lot faster than a Jaguar 8 core, and already the top end cards are a lot faster than PS4's GPU.
This is despite the fact we are probably at least 9 months from launch, possibly a year in other territories if it is staggered, and another year after it launches before developers really start to push the hardware. Gears of war/Uncharted came out a whole year after their respective platforms launched....
By that time PC hardware will have moved on a long way so that even modest gear easily deals with whatever ports come across to PC.
A totally new Intel x86 architecture is due in the summer which will be considerably faster than current parts, and before the end of the year we will have a bunch of refreshed GPU lineups. Noth these things means faster of course, but more importantly more power for less money.
Its no big deal for PC, it'll cope easier with the console transition than the previous one because of the greater hardware advantage held.
9 months before xbox 360 launched there was certainly no single GPU on the PC market as fast as what ended up in 360, let alone much faster parts being around. Not the same circumstances this time out, hardware advantage still lies with PC.
PC also gains with the consoles using x86, something we have not seen since the original Xbox. It'll be hugely helpful, considering one of the main problems in many PC games is CPU utilization and optimisation.
You build it for 6 or 7 threads on console and it'll move right across to a PC CPU, but just run faster!
You make very valid points.
What people are not willing to understand, that for 600usd you could easily make a PC that will demolish the PS4 specs.
9 months from now the same 600usd will get you even better specs. PS4 specs arent improving thats a given, its probably set in stone now.
PS4 probably wont be selling less than 500usd for the top model.
So 500usd for a locked down PC(PS4) VS 600usd for a fully open machine that can be upgraded later. I would say the latter option easily wins.
Not to mention PC will virtually play every game you own on your current PC. The only arguement in the PS4s favor is the exclusives. Which really may be between 2-3 games a year (which people will really want to play not more than that, not every exclusive is liked by everyone.. Games arent good just because they are exclusive either).
The difference easily gets swayed in the PCs favor due to BC and cheaper games, anyone owning 100-200 games would always want their next machine to be able to play them, not having to rely on an old machine laying around.
So really its just 2-3 10 hours games a year that are to the PS4s advantage, no harm done PC has its own exclusives too.
It usually takes a year or more before the machine has a nice selection of quality exclusive titles.
If you jump in to be early and see the next gen, then I would point out that PC can deliver next gen style visuals already.
When the console exclusives start to stack up after that first year I would be happy to get a new console, but I am in no rush right now.
I also predict that PC will get more of the show than ever, thanks to the hardware being so similar. Literally everyone making a game on PS4 and it seems the Next Xbox will be dealing with x86. Everyone will have to be experts with it including every console developer.
This is fantastic news for the long term future of PC gaming.
PC gamers also ignore the fact that Intel tried to do the very thing AMD is doing with Fusion. Because they know it is the future of computing. Larrabee was an attempt at heterogeneous systems architecture. They failed at it. The Cell was the same thing. But it should get your attention that everyone is trying it.
Microsoft, Sony and Nintendo all looked at IBM, ARM, AMD and Intel to decide on their next console chips. Everyone chose AMD. There is a reason for that. Billionaires are dumping all of their Intel stock.
http://www.csmonitor.com/Bu...
There is a reason for that(there are others). They all know AMD is on the verge of breakthrough with HSA. And they will become the new Chipzilla. Tablets are taking over and APUs will be better for Tablets. Obviously they are better for consoles too. Stop making judgments based on the past. Technology doesn't stand still.
And just look at the difference between gameplay on the PS4 compared to gameplay on the current consoles and think back to the difference between the current consoles and their predecessors. We were told the real difference would come in the second and third generation of games this cycle. The PS4 difference is immediate. Wait till they really learn to use the new consoles.
They aren't that interesting for core PC gamers right now though. Thats cos discrete hardware will be faster and it will stay that way for years n years. The disads of having discrete is that it is more expensive and less power efficient. Two disads that havent bothered PC gamers for decades.
Discrete is easier to upgrade right now and just faster. It will be faster for ages because of simple die size limitations.
CPU + GPU on the same die means neither can ever be as large and therefore as fast as a CPU or a GPU on separate dies- even considering the efficiency gains by being on the same die. PC buses keep up just fine for the moment.
Look at PCI express 3 which is still fairly new getting to market. It massively reduces the encoding overhead of the bus and guarantees another long future of ample bandwidth for discrete GPUs. PCI express 4 will be certified within another 2 years. Maybe tip up in 3. Discrete is going NOWHERE.
APU makes perfect sense for consoles then and great sense for mass market personal computers. Still not too relvant for PC gaming anytime soon.
Also dcbronco if you are trying to pretend that never before ps4 arrived games have looked like a leap at launch then you are mad. Many launch games from all the previous gens were a decent improvement.
In my opinion what I seen of the Ps4 demos they are less of a leap than what we got from other gens. It will be some time before devs get properly to grips with the new console hardware- same as always.
PC gamers are looking at things from the standpoint that the way the parts will be used and the way software will be made are going to remain the same. They are not. The more transistors model is running out of steam. GPUs and CPUs working as one part is the future. Doing the task that fit each part best. And the software will follow that direction.
Computersaysno are you saying things are going to remain the way they are and things will continue to advance or do you believe HSA is the direction things are moving. Intel, IBM, Microsoft, Sony, ARM and AMD all seem to think HSA is the way of the future. And APUs work best for that environment.
http://www.marketwire.com/p...
PC gamers are looking at what is now instead of what will be in the next five years. This won't be a debate in 5 years. The PC will move past console gaming again, but it will take a couple of years. And gaming PCs will move toward HSA and APUs.
Technology moves on but the Ps4 hardware is now virtually set in stone. Are you trying to talk about what Ps4 is and will be this year, or what the future of APUs are for computer technology in 3 or 4 years?
It sounds more like you are trying to give a lecture on computing hardware for maybe 3 or 4 years from now, which bears no relevance to Ps4 now or even in the future.
Ps4 is fixed, and APU technology gains in THE FUTURE and all this HSA talk blah blah has nothing to do with what Ps4 will be in 3 years.
PS4 will be same basic hardware in 2017 as it was when it was launched in 2013, years before.
All that matters is that Ps4 is still an early large APU design which discrete PC hardware will have no problems outperforming and overpowering because it seemingly has before the machine even gets here!
It wont take a couple years to surpass the hardware performance, it already happened. It is just a case of getting so far ahead like PC does so that console fixed platform advantages are mostly wiped out. That will happen by the time the consoles even get properly exploited.
Banging on about the distant future of Pc hardware with regards APUs is pretty pointless when its about what PC is now and the very near future, versus what Ps4 will be for all its life.
These consoles will be or will be the closest thing to full HSA available in the home market when they are released. So these consoles will contain a lot of the technology PCs will be moving to. But they haven't done it yet. That's why it matters.
Let me add. Full HSA is several times more powerful than todays computers. Many experts believe ten time as powerful.
All PS4 is getting is two tiny Jaguar quad core CPUs welded together, dumped on a die next to a GPU with modern architecture with interconnect, neither component of which will set the world alight.
PC already has the fusion/APU concept for years.
PS4 is merely another step, an extension by adding fairly significant GPU power on the scale not seen on PC before.
Mainly not seen in Pc gaming because as I said before, ITS CRAP FOR PC GAMERS. Fixed hardware aka APU is slower than separate high end discrete chips and not easily upgradeable. Fine for consoles and great for other Pc users and laptops, not much good for core PC gamers with desktops.
Wow so you got a CPU + GPU fixed on a combined die with lets say 3 billion transistors. I can have a CPU thats nearly 2 billion BY ITSELF, and a GPU thats 7 billion BY ITSELF. I can also swap both these out for faster models at a slightly later date individually as I please. Guess what option Pc gamers want?
This by no means whatsoever is new, amazing, super powered, impossible on PC, or a major threat to discrete hardware at this point in time nor in the near future when PS4 launches.
Unified architecture came first in 360, very new and basic, then came later in vastly better and more powerful discrete hardware for example. 8800GTX says hi.
I don't get your point.
PS4 has a good, modern APU. So?
PC has much faster discrete hardware now, and will have even better, faster discrete hardware by the time Ps4 launches.
Would you like to go on again about APUs in 3 years? Feel free, but it isn't particularly useful to the discussion about Ps4 which will be the exact same basic hardware in 5 years as it is when it launches.
Nor are Pc gamers giving up discrete hardware anytime soon for the reasons I have now stated multiple times.
Like I predicted.
Your next reply will be all about future PC computing hardware and nothing to do with discrete hardware PC gamers will still be more interested in, nor much about Ps4.
If you want to lecture on the future of computing hardware dcbronco with minimal relevance to PS4 or discrete gaming hardware then you should probably find a more relevant topic to do it in!
Cos talking about something basically irrelevant for the comparison of Ps4 and much more powerful discrete Pc hardware in this topic is....pointless.
Throwing about HSA jargon as if it means PS4 will suddenly be much more powerful than hugely superior discrete hardware is hilarious.
I think the problem is that you believe computers will just continue to add transistors and become more and more powerful. No of the experts I've read seem to thing that's true. They believe a new architecture will have to be developed. And most seem to think HSA architecture is the one that will be the next evolution of architecture.
Jaguar is as close as mass market has come to that. So you believe computing will stay the same and I believe architecture will change drastically. Jaguar core are that move toward the drastic change. And they will be inside the PS4 and 720 before they appear in PCs. PCs will pass them in a couple of years, but when they launch, they will be the best machines short of someone spending thousands to beat one.
If these machines have enough HSA ability, they will be better than a gaming PC. Let's agree to disagree and re-visit this in November.
Also for the GDDR5 part. According to PS3 announcement, ps3 has full ps2 backwards compability. Wait, what?
the eu 60 gig had hybrid back compat meaning just the gpu was on board cpu was emulated
this was removed during a price cut option.
and props to uncharted explorer, well said
we know your elite pcs are far superior to anything but WE DONT CARE. we chose consoles for other reasons then graphics. maybe it was budget or maybe we wanted something we wouldn't have to upgrade, fix, rebuild, spend money on often,
so stop gloating or commenting on how weak ps4 is to your 20 core 50 gig uber rig. its getting annoying
for the record my own pc is a 6 core amd with 32 gb ram and dual 5770s i use it for web browsing and cgi stuff.
Microsoft guy this gen here, saying I am REALLY excited for the PS4. Even if you hate Sony (which I DONT), at least realize that the stiff competition they are about to put up will help motivate the other companies to try and compete and bring out their own big guns...
absolutely agree with you 150%
i'm hyped myself and can't wait to see what it does.
Why would you not be a fanboy of your own creation?
Besides, we already know it is a beast just by going off of the Killzone Shadow Fall game (It was completely in-game btw, as it was even played on Jimmy Fallon).
Not being a fanboy or anything, but this is an honest question to all PC players;
How much would I have to pay to be able to play something as good looking as Killzone Shadow Fall on PC? Keeping in mind this is early footage and a Killzone in the future life of the console will likely blow it away?
@Bladefist
"We have no idea what the PS4 will cost so it is very hard to answer your question."
That is why I was asking how much it would cost to play something that good looking "on PC". SMH
That article was a good read and basically explained the whole fixed system vs open system thing. I would say that's the only reason PS4 games will look better, if not the same, as current PC tech. Give the first party Sony studios like a year or two once the PS4 is released and you'll see what I mean.
Also, I always say, I REALLY hope Sony's PS4 will support the ability to take full advantage of an SSD, (I think SATA 3 is needed in order to achieve this, though probably wrong). They mention that in the article, and I agree as well that it would greatly enhance the overall performance of the PS4. Sony would be fools to overlook SSD.
ram 8 gig 40
motherboard 75
gpu 180 for a 7870
40 for hard drive
40 for bluray for spec matching
560£ from aria technology
The Cell was a nice chip but IBM, Sony, and Toshiba all have CANCELED it!
So if the 3 corporations who CREATED the Cell have turned their backs on it and killed it off then it's time for some of you fanboys to GET OVER IT! The Cell R.I.P!
now on to the PS4PC
I like the specs and system set-up. Because of the the wattage caps the PS4PC is basically a Laptop PC but with unified 8GB GDD5 Ram.
Kids running around like "8GB unified Ram is so GREAT".....Shut-up as you don't know what your talking about!
1. the PS4PC will be Powerful and very capable and this I guarantee but
2. A GPU having to share Ram with a CPU is NEVER a good thing. A GPU works faster than a CPU therefore it's utilizing Ram at faster pace than the CPU so the Devs are gonna have to slow down the GPU to match the speed of the CPU so everything is fluid.
OR Devs will just cut out 1GB ram for the CPU thus allowing the GPU to have 7GB of dedicated Ram for itself or whatever.
It's always best that a CPU and GPU have their OWN ram so either chip doesn't have to wait to utilize the ram during intensive functions
3. But since the PS4PC is basically a gaming machine and will not Encode Video, Burn Cd/dvd, do Auto Cad, or run intensive programs then it's set-up is very good!
Sony has hinted on Multi-tasking but it all seems very limited at this point. Nothing major like what a PC does!
4. Devs will be able to Optimize to the max on the PS4PC and really pump out High Graphical Games that will rival and SURPASS the PC "There I said It"!......well Until Ray Tracing hits the PC!
the PS4PC will Not surpass High Texture Graphic Mods on the PC
5. My only concern is with all this POWER and CAPABILITIES will console Devs continue with the same 15 hour Linear Games or will they take advantage of the PS4PC and create HUGE worlds with advance A.I. and Let Gamers decide what goes on in those worlds like how Us PC Gamers have in our Games.
anyway looking forward to the future as always while enjoying some it Now!
GamersNexus: "AMD's APUs have proliferated with ferocity over the past year or so
LMAO! what a Joke! AMD APU's haven't DONE SQUAT in the marketplace! No one is using them except Next Gen Consoles
Nvidia's Tegra and Intel's dominate the market. AMD does have a strong showing in Laptops but it's their mobile chips, NOT APU's that's selling well.
AMD is a Friggin JOKE in the CPU Market now a days but I guess since they stuck one in the PS4 then all of a sudden they are Godly, LMAO!
AMD makes great chips but they are a finger snap in the Market that Intel DOMINATES as far as Sales and Performance! AMD GPU's are neck and neck with Nvidia!
http://www.investorvillage....
http://hothardware.com/News...
APU's are only good for saving Watts on low power systems like CONSOLES, TABLETS, and Cellphones!
if your not Watt Capped then you always want your CPU and GPU to have their OWN Ram!
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Ports might end up being much better. I hope anyway.
ps3/360 gamers = 1/2 nerds,cool guys and girls.
"never go full nerd"
With optimization, I think the ps4 (at 1080p, obviously not higher), could look like a high end pc.
The error I see disllusional fanboys claim is awesome we get a high end pc for $400. Then when you point out it isnt, they backtrack and use the catch words: game experiences and we dont care about graphics. (if you didnt care about graphics, then just buy a ps1).
You should be pleased with the PS4 specs. Now that the architectures are more similar it's more likely that developers will be able to give you the enhancements you've paid a lot of money to get because porting wont cost developers as much. I also expect pretty much all multiplatform console games will also arrive on PC next gen, no more missing out.
Stop with the petty spec comparison and look at the bigger picture.