Digital Foundry on what the recent leaks mean and how the next-gen Xbox and PlayStation compare.
orbis wins.. FATALITY!
With a huge per cent advantage!
i cant wait to have a ps4 in my hands. just like every gen. playstation is about making proper games of high quality.
"Sony hardware has a surprisingly large 32 ROPs; 32 comes across as overkill, but it could be useful for addressing stereoscopic 1080p for instance, or even 4K" 1080p 60fps shouldn't be a problem then. Nice! "we're told that the quality of the tools for PS4 has increased exponentially to the point where one highly experienced game-maker we spoke to rates the PlayStation Vita tools as the most impressive he's used" 3rd party devs have no excuses any longer, if you're unable to code for PS4 then it has nothing to do with the hardware and everything to do with your skill set.
I cant wait to have PS4 and Xbox 720 in my hands.. is what people should be saying
DDR5 vs DDR3 for GPU memory is a MASSIVE advantage. People say oh I only use DDR3 on my PC but there graphics card most likely uses DDR5. The bandwith in DDR3 will be a massive bottleneck for devs in the next generation and will lead once again to games being downgraded for both consoles to look on par.. However the exclusives on PS3 will be off the chart thanks to having this bottleneck removed.
Gamer- If the PS4 really is significantly more powerful than the successor to the 360, I really think third-party games will reflect that. It seems the reason for this happening this gen was the relative ease of development on 360 compared to PS3. If PS4 is developer friendly, then it wouldn't be hard for them to use the extra power to add extra effects and if there's a PC version, maybe even higher resolution and framerate to achieve something closer to parity with that version. Either way, I buy Playstations because of the exclusives the platform offers. Not having to worry about any Bayonetta or Skyrim fiascos is simply icing on the cake.
Comparing hardware that has only been speculated about. New low reached.
Ps4 will put 720xbox soon out of business. PS4 is a killing machine!
@Gamer1982 DDR3 in Durango is only half the story, though. I have a hard time seeing 68GB/s + 100GB/s = 170GB/s...the ESRAM is a cache; and never can the peak bandwidth be bigger than the fastest entity in the system - no matter if it runs parallel or not. If you make one read with 68GB/s and another with 100GB/s you still read with a max of 100GB/s - well, but you can move a bit more data - but only if you have a proper data layout which really can benefit from such a "data move". And in that case, it would actually drop down to the slowest transfer (like 68[pool1] + x>68[pool2] needs to wait till you have all data from pool1 loaded...). Well, all that said, though, MS tries to offset the limits of DDR3 with extra HW to remove dependencies from bandwidth. But it will require some SW tricks to utilize those. Funny, ain't it? Sony tried the same with the PS3. - One significant difference here, however, despite all customization, Orbis is still up to 50% faster...makes you think, huh? 360s EDRAM could level the SPU advantage, but wasn't faster... MS priority seemed to be the >4GB, it seems while Sony looks like is biting the bullet and goes with what's available. It also looks to me, that AMD did the whole chipset for Sony (this is a SoC incl. CPU and GPU) while MS might have had more internal work done to get those customization in? The fact is, the PS4 (supposedly) beats the Durango when 4GB are in your budget - by quite a bit. But if devs require more - there will be no other option but to add some streaming to the PS4, while Durango can use the bigger pool. I personally think that 4GB is the better route to go - if you build a console primarily. I am quite surprised that this time MS went for the excessive customization while Sony streamlined their platform. I think MS had the wrong priorities (but that's just me). 8GB GDRAM might be feasible in some near future which will make all that customization quite obsolete. And the other fact is, that if AMD packs all that onto a SoC (Sony), that the Orbis might actually be cheaper - with the offset that the 4GB GDRAM might clock at the same price as the 8GB DDR3. No matter what. We'll see some freaking looking games come next gen. No matter what you'll choose.
Hitler learns that the PlayStation 4 is more powerful than the XBox 720 http://www.youtube.com/watc...
@Stevo91 Honestly, I have no desire whatsoever to get a 720. Microsoft outright said that it's going to be less of a game console, and more of a "media-hub", a path that the Xbox has been going down since its start. The only reason I bought an Xbox in the first place was because it was all my friends would ever played. Xbox Live is the reason why I started getting angry at video games. Hopefully the PS4 will continue chugging out new and innovative GAMING experiences, not new peripherals that allow us to play shitty games in cool ways.
Huge percent advantage on what? As the article state, he dont know but speculate on results, the data its too closed together to activate a winner. Well, I know 1 thing for sure N4G is were most drolls come to and seems always 1 way. Comprehension level here its minimal, but to make it simple, they have same cpu, same amount of ram 2ddr3 = 1 ddr5, video cards or gpu are similar, so it all comes down to neat picking, faster does not meant carry more and thats were MS placed their eggs cause they want more functions and the reason they emplaced the 4 move engines. Either way, both consoles are going to rock, but PS4 its focused on raw power on gaming which will lack behind on media/entertainment models, while ms has the availability to resurface due to its flexinility. Either way none of this its oficial, what makes this article good, its how many of you already painted a picture of who will win based on rumours, lol, not to mention that most of you dont understand anything.
@PimpMaster I think you're mistaken. Microsoft has never said that the 720 would be more of a media hub. Sony on the other hand said these exact words yesterday: "SCE official says that the PlayStation 4 will act as more of a home entertainment hub than what we've seen in the past" http://n4g.com/news/1169923...
@NeverEnding1989 Hm, well I could've sworn I heard that from at least 4 or 5 different sources. Oh well. I guess the reason why I won't be buying it will be for my primary reason: Xbox has about 4 exclusive games worth owning, none of which I have any interest in.
Grow up .
That's what I want the most from a gaming console: High focus on gaming. This is how I wish ALL consoles were like.
I think it is funny, because all of this is rumor, but then again this mirrors very much the Xbox 360 vs PS3 spec wars. On paper, the PS3 has higher bandwidth and supposed superior computing power. In real life, all of that didn't matter because the bottle necks was too costly so any performance gain was really lost. So the question here isn't what has more raw processing power by the numbers, but what as an overall package provides the most balanced system? The Xbox 360 and PS3 generation, the bandwidth and latency wasn't as important as the amount of RAM. What is it next generation quantity of RAM or the speed of it? For that, we won't know for a while after the console has been released. That said, history has repeatedly shown that the highest spec machine almost always looses. It turns out, the content and features of said console is far more important....
Analysis from Nvidia engineer: http://www.examiner.com/art...
I have a feeling this conversation is going nowhere on this forum - people are splitting hairs on hypothetical arguments. The truth is, specs can be changed just like Ken K said. Once the opposition reveals their specs, all you need to do is figure out a way to match it somehow. Simple as that, and don't think either Sony or Microsoft is going to let the other get away with a massive advantage.
Don't care... my console is better the yours. *grabs popcorn* FIGHT !!!!!
lol good stuff.
I'll get the backwards compatible console first and the other one later. I do hope that one is more powerful than the other. All is fair.
yeah it seems the playstation 4 (orbis) is focused mostly on raw games power.
^ Which is exactly what a game console should do. Glad to hear Sony is doing it right. Their 1st party games will be amazing no doubt at all about that. Can't wait until Feb 20th!
Based on rumors...
Oh god here we go again. More pre launch sony propaganda just like before the PS3 launched. -Ps3 is more powerful than a super computer. -PS3 can do 1080p -Ps3 can do 120 fps On and on based on mis information and rumors. Pro sony media and sony are going to allow the sony fanboys to smear the 720 like they did with the 360 and wii u You can't trust Sony about specs even if the PS4 specs rumors were actually/truely leaked from Sony. Sony is known for telling lies to trick stupid fanboys from buying other consoles and to run negative smear campaigns against mostly MSFT. I won't believe anything until MSFT releases the specs for 720 and pro unbiased developers reveal the specs of the PS4 without Sony influence. Also multi platform games will be the best proof not linear games with static game design and lack of features.
Since when is Eurogamer pro-Sony? How is any of this Sony propaganda? Sounds like baseless speculation from someone whose entire argument claims to be against such things. Remember, these specs are just rumors, there's no need for an Xbox fanboy like you to get all worked up just yet. P.S. The proof of your lack of logic is contained neatly in one sentence: "I won't believe anything until MSFT releases the specs for 720 and pro unbiased developers reveal the specs of the PS4 without Sony influence." So, you need a "pro, unbiased deveoper" (whose legitimacy I'm sure will be determined by how their words affect your agenda) yet you are more than willing to accept the word of Microsoft's marketing department. Sound logic there... Edit: One thing Sony didn't lie about is the fact that they would continue providing an experience unavailable on any other console. The number of both blockbuster and unique exclusives delivered this gen delivers on that promise. A good number of them do so at a fidelity that is also without rival on anything other than PC.
bahahaha and your saying microsoft dont tell lies ??? your serious right ?? i think you best do i history lesson on microsoft, see what ya find lots of lies since the company was formed in 1975.. ever company tells white lies and bends the truth, but theres no way you can point the finger at sony when they all do the same !! plus sony never released no specs on any console nor did microsoft. its the media and or moles who make you think what you wanna hear....
You forgot 4D.
you mad bro?
or no linear sub hd games that are dark and have only flashlight features.
Did i miss something? Since when and how do they know both consoles specs? I've must have missed a big article or something? Caause suddenly everyone is calling it durango and orbis (terrible names btw) and know specs and is saying it only plays new games and all kind of other details I know its going on for about a week now but there did this info come from?
Should bookmark this page and come back when we get real specs. In the meantime sit back and watch the self destruction. Watching people fight and argue over made up forum specs and wishlist is funny as hell.
I only understood the last sentence, but the rest sounded impressive :)
We don't know yet what the spec's are just yet wait and see !
Am I the only one that hates both of these names?
They're development names only. Like the vita was NGP or Nintendo's Dolphin. They'll have changed to official names by E3.
Time to feed the fanboys. Here chook, chook, chook. I don't play consoles, I play games. Love the games, not the console.
So we're going by who wins rumors now? Ooookay
Would you expect any less from fanboys. No one knows the real potential of either machine and the fanboys are flying their flags high.
Expect that this is still a rumor..... still 50:50 or in other words, you could be right, just dont rush too early.
sony will not dissapoint . . fin
Graphical engine wins. Brutality!!!
Durango will get dominated, no doubt about it.
With a superior GPU and RAM, Sony's first party studios will do things only Durango can dream of.
I don't know why anybody disagreed with you on that, it's very true, look at the games Sony's first party studios pumped out with the PS3, it was incredible, I can only imagine what they can do with the PS4 once they get ever last possible bit of power of it.
The problem developers will be facing is that they have to make multiplatform games meaning the games must be playable on all next gen consoles. 3rd party developers won't able to use the Levis to its full potential.
I think this is less a technical problem than a political. If MS puts a class in their certification again which requires to make game on par if they want to get Xbox certification than we won't. But, both machines have some significant distinctions which will require developers to support each individually and in that process can max out each platform. Durango will need explicit code to utilize ESRAM and Move Engines, the new DX "direct path" interface will make all developers write shader code tailored for exactly this platform (using HLSL) while LibGCM has a shorter path anyway but uses its own proprietary shader language (closer to GLSL - actually I don't even know, but it's more a mix of GLSL and CUDA AFAIK). Theoretically Orbis GPU can handle more tris, not sure if we'll see that in num polys because this is heavily dependent on the arts pipeline (and pre-processing) and if the toolchains aren't flexible enough to do dynamic vertex reduction, then both platforms will probably look the same.
very true.. imagine if PS3 (256mb)had an equal amount of ram as 360 (512mb) while maintaining the 256mb of vram.. It wouldve murdered em.. The limited ram inside PS3 is one of the main reasons a lot of multiplats struggle to run smoothly.. Sony knows this so im sure they wont make that mistake again
"So what does this mean for game devs in real terms? Well, whichever way Microsoft tries to finesse it, the 32MB of ESRAM is a bit of a sticking plaster solution that is nowhere near as fast or efficient as the single unified pool of RAM available to Orbis." That answers the question of which is better, 4gb of DDR5 or 8gb DDR3. They go on to say it's not a complete disaster for MS but at least we have a clear, definitive answer to stop arguments.
The other things to take into consideration is that the new xbox has 256bit bus from the ram and nearly everything in ram will be compressed and decompressed on the fly by the gpu and move engines, and GDR5 ram has higher latencey than DDR3 ram so the new xbox may have faster ram access. It will probably better at open world games as it will all be precompressed from hdd/blu to ram. Also loading times will be faster and AA will be less stressfull on the gpu
I don't particular care I just rather sit and watch the impending stupidity battle between these two fans. It i quite entertaining.
*grabs popcorn* This year is going to be very entertaining.
I'm almost sure I heard a rumour that Sony is pushing 8gigs of DDR5 ram. If the Ps4 gets 8 gigs of DDR5 ram the differnce between the systems will be huge. Either way the system with the best exclusives and free online is the one I will buy.
that would help future proof things a little. High end PC games only use 8gb so that would cover them for awhile considering consoles don't need nearly as much RAM. I would also be excited to see what they could do with multitasking if they had that much RAM.
@bran I've heard people say that half a gig of gddr5 is equivalent to 1 gig of gddr3,though if there was an additional 512 MB of gddr5 than 4GB of that would be for games instead of 3.5GB.
via EDGE report, not rumor: We have confirmed with sources that recently leaked tech specs are accurate. Though Durango devkits offer 8GB of DDR3 RAM, compared to Orbis’s 4GB, Sony’s GDDR5 solution is capable of moving data at 176 gigabytes per second, which should eliminate the sort of bottlenecks that hampered PS3 game performance. Importantly, we’ve learned that Sony has told developers that it is pushing for the final PS4 RAM to match up to Microsoft’s 8GB." http://www.edge-online.com/... Sony is pushing 8 or at least 6 gigs of DDR5 ram in ps4/orbis.
Wonder what that will do to the price if they push for 8GB? Honestly Id rather shave £50 off the price on launch day and stick with the 4GB.
I dont know why people are playing the consoles out like there is a huge difference... The author basically reminded everyone that differences between durango and orbis, are less pronounced when comparing 360/ps3. How big can the difference be if this is the case. AKA the 2 new consoles are much closer in power than 360/ps3...
They said that architecturally they're very similar, but power-wise Orbis is clearly more capable. It's like saying a 200HP gasoline car is more closely related to a 300HP gasoline car than it is another 200HP electric car. Orbis has 14 CU's for rendering, which alone beats the 720, but it has 4 more for physics, AI, etc. so it doesn't even dip into that rendering power.
I don't really care what the specs are I'm buying Playstation whatever it's called (I predict 4) because they have most of my favorite devs in their first party. I just want to see what ND, SP, MM, GG, Insomniac (I expect Fuse to bomb and them to come back to Sony and continue my favorite franchise of all time Ratchet and Clank), SSM, Polyphony, Quantic Dream, and all the other first party studios will do. A lot of people bought MS because they were cheaper and out first and all they wanted to do was play COD and/or a sports game. This time will be VERY different especially if PS releases at the same price or lower because of Kinect on Xbox.
So you bought a console because you say that your favorite devs are on that console but then say people bought xbox because it was cheap. Maybe some people like Halo (bungie,343), or Forza (turn 10), or Gears (epic - not first party). But it doesn't matter if they aren't on your side of the argument. Insomniac isn't 1st party anymore. ON TOPIC: I cant wait to see either machine. The next gen will be interesting. I will eventually own both but not right off the bat.
Exactly 3 franchises are good on xbox, and Forza and GT basically wash each other out. I won't go listing all the exclusives I happen to like because maybe you're not into any of them and do like Halo and Gears, but my point was the fact that the PS3 has outsold the 360 nearly every year both have been out (08 aside) despite being out later (less friends who pulled the trigger in the first year asking you to buy it) and being more expensive the entire gen (sometimes $200 more) is a bad sign for MS. Normally price and timing are two of the most important factors in a console's success, especially price. If they couldn't win being cheaper and earlier than what chance do they have on an even playing field?
"If they couldn't win being cheaper and earlier than what chance do they have on an even playing field?" Win what? You guys/gals and this fanboy BS have got to stop it. For your own sakes. Microsoft is profitable and have made a name for themselves in the gaming market. The xbox 360 thrashed the original xbox sales. Is that a win?The ps2 has sold a gazillion more units than the ps3 has in less time. Is that a win? These companies dont get trophies when the ps4 and xbox 720 are released. The world keeps turning. G.E. lives with LG, whom lives with Sony, whom lives with Samsung, whom lives with Sanyo, etc etc. They all sell phones, washers and dryers, televisions, and other electronics. Profits are the only thing that matters not if they sell 20 more televisions than the other guy.
AND THE WINNER IS SONY! THEORETICALLY.... Because it's all a rumor and not fact... Still getting a PS4 at launch though love Sony's first party offerings.