Retailer warns platform holders not to alienate customers
Duh and so will Gamestop
I was coming to say the exact same thing.
@ Tctczach Well said my friend well said. The Next gen backlash would be as bad as what Nextflix faced when they tried to seperate the streaming from the move rentals. MS knows this and if they didn't then they got warned. It's up to them to choose this route or not. Evil
If MS alone bans used games on the next Xbox, then they could stand to lose a lot of customers. If they come to an agreement with Sony and both go this route, it could actually benefit them and the industry as a whole since used game sales actually hurt the developers and publishers. However in order for a model to be successful where used games are banned, I think both companies need to develop a Steam-like pricing strategy, where games become cheaper more quickly, and insane deals are offered where games and sometimes bundles of games are offered at a crazy discount. On a separate note, I read a rumor that if next gen discs come with an activation code in order to run them, places like GameStop might buy codes in bulk directly from the publisher so they can still sell used discs. It would be good for the publishers, but it would obviously drive up the cost of used games.
used sales in a part of life, video games is no exception. If MS/sony get away with it, next will be used cars, or tvs. Then we can't sell our car without giving some money back to Toyoda.
@ ANGRY TYPING GUY was it not the purpose of "USED games" for people to buy the game cheaper?? who can not afford to buy it NEW??? 59.99 and some people dont buy games until the price is 19.99 used game not going anywhere soon trust and believe that.
morkendo23 I have no issue with certain products being resold "used" such that the previous owner of said object gets more money then they would have scrapping said product and the buyer gets said product cheaper than buying it new. It's a WIN WIN. However in the GameStop used game case, the original owner gets screwed, the publishers get screwed, and believe it or not you the buyer get screwed; GameStop is the only one who wins. How does the buyer get screwed lets count the ways: 1) GameStop actually make MORE from a used game they bought for say $15 and resell for $40 than one they buy at $50 (cost) and sell new at $60 2) Since the publishers are loosing revenue due to (1) new game prices get hiked each generation to recoup the losses 3) Now in addition to (2) some games require you buy an Online Pass (or something similar) at $10-$15 to enable online functionality or missing CORE gameplay features (extra missions, weapons, etc; basically content already on the disc and available if you buy the game new at no extra cost) 4) Even more so in addition to (2) GOOD developers are getting dropped due to lost of revenue both directly and indirectly from used sales 5) And lastly, game quality goes down because budgets usually get cut down because a previous game returned less than it would have with more new sales In all used game sales actually stagnate and hurt the gaming industry as a whole and the only ones who don't loose in the long run is GameStop and their clones. I've stopped giving GameStop ANY of my money long ago when I realized how much highway robbery they were committing with their used game sales. Seriously, they buy games at anywhere between $5 and $20 and resell them at a minimum of a $20 profit ($10 or more then they'd ever get from new games). You know, pirating a game actually does LESS damage than buying a game used because at least it is a lost game sale to BOTH the publisher and GameStop.
Gamestop would only suffer if it proved successful :P But no this move would fail hard and fast. Why is it when I heard the word "block" and the words "used games" I immediately thought of the word "fail!"?
GameStop still sells new games, consoles and etc...so while their cash cow in used games sales would fall off , it would hurt any console makers more in the long run especially if the competition allows used games
Never worked in games retail so while not 100% sure, I was always under the impression that the majority of profit for game stores is through used game sales. It would hurt them a lot.
@Rainstorm81 The last numbers are that 45% of Gamestops income is from used games. So yea it would kill gamestop profits.
I'm not sure why people believe this will fail. Microsoft, Sony and the developers lose nothing by doing this. They could potentially gain the sales of people who have no choice. Many bought a PS3 despite the price, why not a regular priced game. Plus, games are almost always on sale that first week. The used market does not benefit them. It only benefits Gamestop and others like them. Gamestop is not so valuable that MS and Sony should feel the need to keep them around. I know I wouldn't miss them. Getting rid of the Gamestops makes the industry healthier.
NONE of what you said is correct. The people always have a choice. Game developers do benefit from the existence of a used game market, because used games bring money into the game market that otherwise would not be spent on games. If Gamestop didn't make a market for used games the game market would immediately replace them with someone else. Because specialty shops stock a few of the smaller budget, more exotic games, most hardcore gamers would miss Gamestop or its equivalent (it doesn't matter whether it was called "Gamestop" as long as it was somebody who did what Gamestop does). Getting rid of specialty shops like Gamestop would hurt the gaming market a great deal.
Do you know of some secret program where developers make money on every used games sold? I've never heard of one. All of that new money goes directly to the re-seller. None to the developers or console makers. You're right. The market would make room for another company to exploit people on their used games. Wait, it already has made several of them. Just more leeches to bring the market down. We're in the digital age. Rare games will all eventually be available for DL if they are really demanded. Gaming would be so much better off if they disappeared. People love to talk about being hardcore gamers. They will spend $600 for a console, but won't pay $5 more for a new game. What a joke. Look at Black Ops on Gamestop right now. $54.99. New for $59.99. I bet they paid the person that traded it in $25. So the person that buys it used saves $5. The person that sold it loses $35. Microsoft doesn't get another $10 royalty and the developer doesn't get any of that $30 difference that gamestop gets. How does this help gaming? That $30 Gamestop gets is probably as much as the developer made. After then develop pays royalties to the console holder, media licenses, development cost, overhead and taxes, Gamestop came out ahead. By being a middle man. An exploitative middle man. Gamestop needs to develop a talent, provide a unique service or die. It's business model is based solely on exploitation. But if blocking used games means that 25% of those people pay the extra $5, then gaming actually benefits. That means a developer might be able to stay in business. No one but the people that work at Gamestop and the people that own the stock benefit from used games. Oh, and the ass-clowns that run the company.
Your second post is all wrong as well. The second-hand market helps gaming by increasing the total number of dollars that go into the market. For example consider two scenarios. Say that I want 3 games labeled, A, B, & C, that cost $60 each, but I only have $150. Also say that another person wants game A and yet another person wants game B, but each person only has $30. If there is no used game market then I will buy 2 games, and the game industry will get $120. The other two people will not get either game that they want. The other game will sit on the shelf FOREVER. Once I play my two games that I OWN they will be worthless and I can never sell them. If there is a used game market then I will buy 2 games, play them and then sell them to a specialty shop like Gamestop, for $15 a piece. I will put the $30 I got from reselling my games with the $30 I had left and buy the third game. The gaming industry less Gamestop will get $150. Gamestop will sell the other two games to the other two people for $30 a piece. Everybody is better off with a used game market. I more games for my money ( 3 games for $150 is less per game than 2 games for $120). The other two people got to play a game instead of no game at all. The gaming industry, other than Gamestop got $150 instead of $120. Gamestop made $30 by making the market. It's business 101. More efficient markets are better for the masses. Gamestop makes the market more efficient and they deserve to be paid for that. Getting rid of them would make the gaming industry worse off. Blocking used games is going to shrink the pie. The game developers would have a greater percentage of a smaller amount of dollars.
Let's get one thing sorted out first. Are you under the impression that Gamestop severely undersells the developer. I have bad news, they don't. The games that most people buy are only $5 less. So those people with $30 won't be getting anything anyway. Or at least not anything that they wanted. Unless what they want is really old or was cheaper than $60 new anyway. Games like CoD and Halo will always be just $5 less than new. So there is no real savings. In fact, you can get them on sale from one major retailer or another for $45 or $50 in any given week. I can get that game cheaper right now from Dell with free shipping than I can at Gamestop used. I can get Halo 4 for $40 from Amazon with free shipping. If you take the time to look, you can beat Gamestop any day of the week will getting a new game. Using a site like Pricegrabber let's you do it in less than a minute. So the $30 people have a better chance of getting a new copy for less money and the right people are the ones making a profit. Not some opportunist. The same goes for the person buying 3 games. I have rarely spent $60 for a new game. When I do, it's usually with a credit or gift card offer. Which means the next game is cheaper and it comes with a card or credit. If you're really a gamer, you already know all of this. Another thing, probably the main thing. If you only have $150 and can't wait an extra week or two on one of the games, something is wrong and you need to look at fixing that. Not trying to be mean, just a fact of life. If you won't be able to come up with another $10 in the next few weeks, maybe games shouldn't be your priority. Sometimes you just have to go without. Many, many people do. But if you can't, just take a quick look on the Internet and get all three and still save some money over Gamestop. As for the business 101 thing. Umm, yeah. Business 101 should have been that an secondary market completely seperate from the main market does not benefit the main market in anyway. Though what Gamestop is legal, it is the equivalent of stolen goods. The money made off of the used items sold by gamestop don't make their way back to the developer or console maker in any way. No royalties are paid to the console maker. The developer pays a royalty. And the developers doesn't get a cut of Gamestop's income. So I'm confused why you believe Gamestop is part of the gaming market in that sense. Gamestop is a leech sucking the blood of another animal. A more efficient market would be for the developers and console makers to get together and start their own used games store. That way, the money does actually go back into the industry. The only gamestop money going back into the industry is from the employees buying games with their paychecks. Sorry, I forgot. The employees actually play the games and then re-package them as new and sells them to someone else. Dude, just sell your franchise before it's too late.
If they just lowered games to $29.99,people would buy more new games. They got this $60 thing in their heads and there are people out there that will only buy the call of duties. Single player games should be $19.99 and multi/single should be $29.99, then knock off $10 for digitals. Then the game is like 6 months old cut price down. All these rich dickfaces want $60 +tax for a game that takes 4-6 hours to knock out is insane unless there is only one or two games to choose from. So what people like me do we play em all when they hit the bargain bin, and newer games we buy$10-$30 cheaper on craigslist. Adjust your prices and shut our pieoles. If u block used games on your "CONSOLES" people like myself will move on to steam and get less expensive games with BETTER GRAPHICS and your industry will sour even further. Ahh,...tear :*-( Plus free to play is gonna knock all these activisions and epic types dicks in the dirt.
Gamestop dying would be the one of the good things to come from used games being blocked.
Exactly, which is why MS won't go through with it. MS hasn't shown any signs blocking used games this gen that would speculate any kind of evidence next gen. Besides the rumored constant internet. Quick Note: That rumor could retain to piracy. Nobody's bought that up yet. XBL has been MS saving factor in used games this gen. Hell you can pick up Alan Wake used be silver member and still play it with no extra charge. Because MS is making money off of gold anyway, not used games.
Pretty much common sense..... Actually even someone borderline retarded can figure that out.
Never would of thought this would come from GameStop...
I hate used games, They're always scratched and the cases are in bad condition that's why i'll only buy new. The real problem here is sharing games with my bro who plays a different console to me and we usually share single player only games. We're still saving to buy two next gen consoles day one though haha
Where the heck do you buy used games from? Off the back of a truck? Most reputable used games retailers here in the UK have have used games in near mint condition, and at next to half the price of the new sealed version that is amazing value for money. I discourage people from buying second hand versions of brand new releases, since that would eventually hamper the industry but buying used games of titles 6 months to a year old does no harm at all IMO, and could even get you interested in a franchise you wouldn't have considered purchasing for the price of the new version.
I bought a few from Gamestop when they had no new copies and I wanted to play an old favourite. They have always been in bad shaped. Scratched, ripped or no books, sticky cases etc. I guess I've just had bad luck.
@Jovahkiin Well that is understandable, Im sorry to hear you've had such a bad experience with used games. You should do what I do and demand to see the condition of the disc, etc, before buying it, that way you avoid those nasty surprises.
I've never seen a scratched PS3 blu-ray/
Sadly the same is not true for the US, at least in regards to Gamestop. They have no problem taking in games in bad shape, they merely deduct a "refurbish" fee from the persons TiV sometimes. GameStop doesn't even refurbish them, and most don't even test the games. People literally trade in games that won't read and the only time it becomes known is when someone else buys it and promptly returns it. This generation has been better due to how tough Bluray's are, but last gen games are usually in horrific shape and many 360 games are in bad shape. I kid you not I'm now finding used PS3 games that are scratched! It makes me sick really as a gamer I can't possibly understand how some people can treat their games like this. I wonder if a lot of people purposely damage their games before trading it in, or maybe they store their game discs in a bucket of razor blades that they happen to keep on their running dryer. Many brush it off as the price you pay for buying used, but sometimes it goes a bit beyond that.
You wouldn't be buying used 360 games would you? A lot of people still have the old 360's that scratch the discs. The used PS3 games I have bought are never scratched.
Yeah im rocking a 360. All my games are in mint condition so can't really blame a console. Looking forward to blu-ray next gen xbox haha
Yea I hate getting cases with stickers on them and then they don't peel off well. Or the artwork is damaged. Have not had a problem buying used games scratched this gen well not since I sold the 360 for a ps3.
To get the stickers off use a hair dryer. just run the hair dryer over the sticker for 5 seconds or so to heat the glue up then slowly peel it off, if there is any glue left on the box just use the sticker to pull it off.
I just peel the label slowly, then use it to get the rest of the adhesive off. By the way, I work at a label printing company.
Gamestop will cease to exist if this happens. I would say goodbye you crooks.
I thought this might happen if the rumors are true. The irony would be that employees at Gamestop are always pushing Xbox games. I remember when I went to buy KZ2 and the guy kept trying to sell me Halo instead.
Lol I've seen that here in NYC a few times and i just laugh at them. i just go to my brothers store because he and his people don't do that, they push games for all systems.
So I have two thoughts on this topic. 1. PC has effectively already done this for the most part. This seems to be okay and maybe it is because the games are cheaper. Either way blocking used game sales I think has no overall effect on the success of the new Xbox. Yes it will defer some players away but in the long run Microsoft nor publishers want used game sells. 2. Gamestop just understands that if it happens they will take a huge hit taking over 90% off of the used games and selling them for 5-10 bucks cheaper. Also why are "hardcore" gamers not behind this movement. If you want the gaming industry to thrive even more you would want your favorite publishers to get paid. Now if this was to happen we would need price reform and DLC reform in order to ensure the consumers aren't getting fooled such as lower game prices and more reasonable sells like a Steam. Just my opinion.
I'll tell you why Im against this. Used games have been around since the beginning and even with their apparent detriment to the industry it's still running strong, so much so it has now become main stream with devs and pubs raking in millions of $. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying and selling used games, and as I have said above "I discourage people from buying second hand versions of brand new releases, since that would eventually hamper the industry but buying used games of titles 6 months to a year old does no harm at all IMO, and could even get you interested in a franchise you wouldn't have considered purchasing for the price of the new version." Ive been buying used games for years and many of them are games that are no longer available new. Another thing it will drastically effect is trade in value, since as soon as you use your copy of a brand new release in your machine it loses all of it's value because you cannot sell it on, or trade it making it now ultimately useless to anyone else. Blocking used games is a stupid move aimed solely at maximising profits by forcing consumers to always buy new for as long as their product is available, it is detrimental to consumers who will purchase a product knowing that it will inevitable become dead weight as soon as they stop playing it, supply and demand on many games will also suffer due to the fact old games will become useless because resale is impossible, only being able to purchase new means the amount printed may not meet the demand leaving some gamers out of the experience. Honestly, how any hardcore gamer can actually be for this is beyond me.
They can be for it because they don't study business, finance, or markets. They don't know what they are talking about, they just think they do. You said this move would drastically affect a game's trade in value. It would completely eliminate it's trade in value. I think you meant to say it's VALUE BRAND NEW. Used markets add value to an item. When people know that they can't sell an item once they use it, they offer less for it BRAND NEW. These rumors are all BS. Game developers may think this is a good idea because they are educated in computers. They make bone-headed business decisions with their games all the time. (See "releasing a broken Bayonetta on PS3 where the hack n' slash gamers are") But Sony and Microsoft pay people with the business degrees. And they know this is stupid. Any lip service given to this idea would be about pacifying developers who are upset at 1) learning, apparently for the first time, that everything from socks to spaceships can be resold AND 2) watching Microsoft profit from charging people for access to their games while they (the developers) are unable to do so.
I've always thought the best way around this was used game stores like GameStop should make it a policy that games can only be traded in after they've been available in retail stores for roughly a year after release since most games get marked down to nearly half their worth around then anyway. This would be an effective compromise between developers making a profit and GameStop making a profit.
Really?! I figured they would skyrocket! **sarcasm**
The console sales would probably suffer in the short term. But, that is irrelevant. Consoles are typically sold with very little profit or even a loss for the first couple of years. So this might make consoles more profitable even though sales are depressed. Also, since consoles are more than just games now, people will probably still buy them for the apps and other entertainment functions. In the long term sales would increase back to normal levels as people accept this will not change. It is highly likely that third party publishers would abandon all platforms that do not block used or pirated games. I would expect to see longer cycles for game sales going forward. People will only buy games as they drop to their acceptable price point. On the plus side we shouldn't see online passes going forward as they are unnecessary in such a world.
Gamestop wont jus't suffer it will die...
This coming from the people that charge crack prices for there used games. $55 for used game with no account for online pass. Best buy at least knocks off $20 or $30
Best Buy can afford to. I hate defending it, because I don't like the high prices, either(actually, it's the low trade-in value I REALLY dislike). But they'd never be able to survive selling just new games, systems, and accessories. Damn what publishers say; used games don't hurt the industry. That market has been alongside the new market for decades, and both have grown mutually. I can't tell you how many games I traded in to get a new game(I'd go back and get those old games, eventually, as I rarely ever buy games I WANT to part with). Most recently was for my acquisition of P4G. Nor could I count how many franchises I never would have gotten into had it not been for buying a used game first. Persona, again(as well as Shin Megami Tensei, in general); Disgaea; Zone of the Enders; Dynasty Warriors; the Shining series; Burnout; .hack; Shadow Hearts; Drakengard; Star Ocean; Need for Speed; Devil May Cry; Parasite Eve; and plenty more. Almost every one of these franchises saw me buy one game used and then go on to buy the rest new: I bought SIX .hack games new after picking the first one up pre-owned. In any case, the industry will definitely suffer.
I think you misunderstood my post or perhaps I was not clear. I believe in the used game market...or more specifically, your right to sell, trade, or borrow. What I do not believe in is buying a used for $5 cheaper than a new copy. I also hate the fact that they rip you on trade-ins. Lastly, Best Buy is closing hundreds of stores. They are in worst shape than Gamestop but at least they are trying to be competitive, which GS is not...
gamestop don't have to die more like the xbox will, honestly if this the case and say sony will not follow suit? when a kid walks around gamestop all he sees is wii u and ps4 games, more money for the man in japan. i can't see this happening, microsoft don't want to shoot themselfs or even sony.... if if this no second game trend kicks in, prepare for lower new game cost? ill be very happy with 40 dollar price tag for new game? even are the biggest rip off, a used game cost 56 dollars if is new but used? psshhhhhhhhh
Gamestop would have no used games to sell. It would hurt their business more. Pc gaming has taken off no problem without the ability to sell their digitally purchased games.
in the end I cant see them doing this; however if they do, I dont buy used games however it would be a dumb move.
Obviously sales of the next Xbox would suffer, which is why it's idiotic to think that Microsoft would block used games. Why would Microsoft take a chance that people would go into a used game store, see huge walls filled with used Wii U and PS4 games and not have any presence whatsoever? Aside from the obvious money and fans that they'd lose it just doesn't make any sense. In the same way that I said it didn't make sense for Sony to do the same thing they were rumored to do last year.
see what some of you don't understand is, not everyone buys games on launch? so when when little charlie walks into game store with his mom and sees game wall with ps4 and wii u? what is the chance of gamestop even carrying xbox new games if used games are blocked?
If the Xbox has this ill just buy a ps4 or vice versa, and if they both have it ill just stick to titles I know I won't waste my £40 on, games like fifa, etc. Any game that is not a long campaign will be off my shopping list, so no more dead space or games that can be completed in a day or two, ill probably play far less on my console and find other things to do. There won't be much creativity anyway as the developers won't want to risk creating a new IP that's a bit niche as there won't be the used game market to drum up word of mouth so we will end up with more sequels and call of duty yearly bore fests. This will kill the games industry not save it, unless another company enters the console hardware market and strikes the right balance between profit and customer satisfaction.
I don't buy at gamestop and support my favorite developers as much as I can afford but the one thing that bothers me about this "no used games allowed" is, why would game prices ever go down? Besides the obvious crap titles or games that fail and are in the bargain bin after 3 months. A competitive price drop at launch like what Sly Cooper did (It really was the best pre-order incentive i've ever seen! Cross-buy plus a $40 dollar price tag.) Might turn out to be the the way to go but we could also see well known franchises and popular games stay at $50-$60 bucks for 2 or 3 years, maybe longer. Or it could be just the opposite and developers will be competing against each other for the consumers money and delivering a better overall game experience than the other studio can. Either way, I don't care if gamestop goes tits up as long as there are still kick ass games for me to choose from and enjoy! :)
I buy all my games day one so this wouldn't affect me. I honestly cant even remember the last used game i bought. I don't care what ends up happening. I just want what's best for developers that spend 80 hours a week for months on end making the games we all enjoy. I want them to get the compensation they deserve so they can make more awesome games.
So technically should this come to pass games should be cheaper next gen. I will accept 49.00.
This is so stupid people think this is gonna happen.They will never make it so you can't play used games on consoles.Thats what PC is for.This rumor has been out forever now at least since early last year.Just a rumor nothing else.Just sounds like Gamestop is getting scared to me ;)
Gamestop are messing themselves right now. Without preowned software they are DEAD.
And if Gamestop dies so will a huge retail chain that hardware and software makers rely on to sell their product.
You Don't Say -______-
unless they adopt a steam-like policy of discounts this will just hurt the industry piracy will be rampant will most likely ruin console market. in favor of steam box and PC the only place DRM works in any consumer friendly way
N4G is a community of gamers posting and discussing the latest game news. It’s part of NewsBoiler, a network of social news sites covering today’s pop culture.