190°
Submitted by paybackprahl 516d ago | news

Naughty Dog wants to change the industry by rising above the 'idiot plot'

PSU writes:

"Shortly after my hands-on demo with The Last of Us, I was fortunate enough to sit down with Minkoff and discuss the studio's role as the foremost leader in advancing games as a narrative art form. Minkoff first shared an amusing anecdote: "People were like, 'What do you want to do with this game?' and [Neil Druckmann, Creative Director] said, 'I want to change the f***ing industry, man.'" (Naughty Dog, PS3, The Last Of Us)

j-blaze  +   516d ago
is it me or ND always talk about how skillful and amazing they are but also forgetting that there are better devs, even probably laughing at their stupid statements?
many devs work hard, made better games and revolutionized the gaming industry...legendary devs like Kamiya, Mikami, Kojima, Sakaguchi, Miyamoto all are humble and down to earth never acted for once like ND
Mikami made a revolutionary game RE4 and invented over the shoulder camera view which is now a standard for third person shooters, and David Cage made a whole new genre did they ever mentioned things about owning a specific genre, change the industry or the game used that percentage of that console's power? no!

why ND is acting all cocky is beyond me but one thing is for sure.. they have no respect for other developers

@ GamersRulz

i've read the article, i'm just talking about them in general, read this http://www.eurogamer.net/ar... ND generalized storytelling in games are poor now, what about uncharted? and to be honest TLoU look nothing special or groundbreaking
#1 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(13) | Disagree(114) | Report | Reply
poopsack  +   516d ago
no.
DatNJDom81  +   516d ago
j-blaze seems to be confusing Naughty Dog with turn 10.
Cupid_Viper_3  +   516d ago | Well said
I think that N4G should have a rule where if you only have one bubble, then you shouldn't be able to get the first comment on an article because historically, what you have to say is usually of little value to the conversation.

I don't think I've ever found it necessary to reply to any of your comments J-Blaze. It seems as though your sole purpose is to annoy people most of time.

This is similar to when Lebron James said that the league would be better if there were less teams, and people got upset with him. It's almost as if they really believe that they understand the game of Basketball better then Lebron James himself....I'm sure there are plenty of things that Lebron don't know, but the game of basketball would not be on list as he's been playing it his whole life, statistically only the 12th player in the history of the game to have 20,000 points, 5000 assists, and 5000s rebounds, yet he's only 28. So he understands it better then most, which is one of the many reasons why he's better then most.

Similar thing for Naughty Dog here. These guys aren't one-hit-wonders dev who luckily got famous. These guys are legit veteran who, generation after generations, have managed to put out new and compelling games, and most recently, the most awarded game for this entire generation in Uncharted 2.

Every medium has its masters, and there exists no one better qualified to critic its respective medium then the masters themselves. And you better believe that Naughty Dogs are Master Developers buddy.

"and David Cage made a whole new genre did they ever mentioned things about owning a specific genre, change the industry or the game used that percentage of that console's power? no!"

Here's what David Cage had to say today actually
http://n4g.com/news/1169417...

Like I said, TLoU got you all bitter since its announcement, and Kojima among many others devs were in awe of the AI in the game, except for you of course. And we all know it's because you've seen it all before and those guys haven't right?
#1.1.2 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(29) | Disagree(6) | Report
vickers500  +   516d ago
"Every medium has its masters, and there exists no one better qualified to critic its respective medium then the masters themselves."

Not agreeing with JBlaze here, but are you saying that a developers view on a game is more important/factual than just some regular joe who enjoys games?

There have been some really good developers who have said some really stupid things about games, so are we supposed to ignore everyone elses opinions on games and listen to them? Consumers have just as much credibility to give an opinion on a game as the developers themselves. You don't have to be a developer to recognize a good or a bad game, just as you don't have to be a film director to recognize a good movie. Your opinion on quality holds no more and no less merit regardless of who you are, the creator or the critic.

Now if we're talking about the actual development process (coding, optimization, tech stuff) then yeah, devs opinions hold a lot more weight, but when it comes to being able to identify a quality game, everyone is on the same ground, you don't need to be an expert in games development to recognize something great or terrible. You just have to have an opinion of your own, preferably a well thought out opinion and not just some hatred spewing nonsense.
TheGamerDood  +   516d ago
When critics like Adam Sessler react to your games like this I think you're entitled to be a little cocky.
http://youtu.be/HA2cuwYSIqs...
#1.1.4 (Edited 515d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(4) | Report
007Bond  +   515d ago
Yes shut up fanboy they made copy and paste sequels on Uncharted. ROCKSTAR is the company to beat and they're not even close.
GamersRulz  +   516d ago
as a fellow gamer, I encourage you to read the article.

you are welcome.
Gran Touring  +   516d ago
What are you talking about? Naughty Dog is far from cocky if you ask me. Even if they weren't so humble like you claim, the quality they put into each of their games has lauded them to be one of the best studios in the industry, regardless.

And what's wrong with trying to change the industry? I applaud ND on their endeavors to continuously progress the industry through innovation and creativity, and would sincerely hope their attitude could inspire other studios to think likewise.
xursz  +   516d ago
I think you're reading it wrong. He didn't insult anybody, really, he's just showing his ambition in this interview. By 'idiot plot' he meant that when the character makes a decision it should be a believable one, and not one that makes you scratch your head like 'Wtf, I would've just walked the other way, why is it that I'm FORCED to walk into this dang ambush when I, as the player, can see it coming but my character can't.'

It explains it in the article.

**To clarify what he meant by parallelism in storytelling, Minkoff explained, "There's a cinematic term called an 'idiot plot.' An idiot plot is when a character makes a choice that the audience wouldn't make. It's like, don't go through that door! And it's very important to us that we do it right, that we make you - every moment - buy into what the characters are feeling and make you feel the same way."**

Seems the quality control department is in good hands at Naughty Dog.

edit:
Why didn't I realize I was replying to a stealth troll. Carry on.
#1.4 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(23) | Disagree(4) | Report | Reply
pandaboy  +   516d ago
It's kind of ironic since 'idiot plot' seems to sum up the uncharted series actually.
kneon  +   516d ago
They are being pretty ambitious though, if you look at most stories, whether they be in books, movies or games, the story very often requires people to make stupid decisions. If they made the right decision right up front most stories would be very short.
onyoursistersback  +   516d ago
personal attack...(like a ninja)
lol....you talk about other developers that i have NEVER HURD OF!
I think the list you gave sucks, Naughy Dog is one of the best out there!
I was going to bubble you down, but much like that list..."you have nothing"
:D
GribbleGrunger  +   516d ago
So, do you think that Naughty Dog goes out seeking the press so that they can make these statements, or do you think the press seeks out Naughty Dog and asks them specific questions?

You know, Kojima visited Naughty Dogs studio for a reason and they've won awards for a reason too. This industry needs studios like Naughty Dog and men Like David Cage. David Cage said that the industry needs to grow up but I think he was being gentle to be honest. The gamer need to grow up too, but will he/she? N4G makes me doubt this on a daily basis.

These are the sort of people that would watch The Road and Mad Max and think they were both 'just' post-apocalyptic flicks.
#1.6 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(24) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Nimblest-Assassin  +   516d ago
Sigh... J-blaze, here is something I honestly do not understand. You claim ND is cocky and arrogant and have no respect for other developers. But what is your proof?

ND is not using "idiot plot" to insult devs... its a term used when a character makes choices that do not make sense practically to the player.

ND is not insulting any other developers they just want to go beyond and do something better. How is this wrong? They are not criticizing other devs. They want to try to be better... and thats cocky?

Hell they respect other devs, did you purge Kojima visiting ND to see the last of us? Remember how much Kojima is interested in this game, and you were in so much denial you try to dismiss your own idols claims as lies? Seriously? Do you not understand ND respects and has the respect of multiple devs? Watch any of their DICE keynotes, commentary and you can see that

And the funny thing is... some of the devs you respect are more arrogant and cocky than you claim ND is.

Kamiya raves and rants on other developers, and when someone criticizes him he gets all defensive and attacks those people

You respect Cliffy B, A guy who claims other devs have no idea how to make their own games, and trys to pass of like he knows how to fix their games, but makes no attempt to prove it, and just makes statements for the sake of making statements

And finally David Cage. David cage is one of the most arrogant in the business. He litterally held a DICE keynote 2 days ago and claimed todays devs have no idea what they are doing, that they need hollywood to help and they are not innovative... when he essentially made a quick time event movie... and Shenmue did it first... not Indigo prophecy or heavy rain

You claim ND is arrogant with zero proof, and yet you respect some of the most arrogant in the business whom you can find proof of their arrogance with no effort whatsoever
#1.7 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(22) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
CGI-Quality  +   516d ago
At this point in time, anything regarding Naughty Dog from you should be flagged as IGNORE :)

OT: Can't wait to see The Last Of Us's impact on the industry.
cpayne93  +   516d ago
"TLoU look nothing special or groundbreaking"

The atmosphere, characters, and tension in this game looks incredible. You may dislike the people at ND, but they're work is amazing. Btw I remember when Kojima spent some time with ND at the last e3... I seem to remember you being quite upset about that. smh.
Gamer1982  +   516d ago
@j-blaze.. Just wow.. Since PS1 ND hasn't made one bad game they are legendary in their own rights.. There lineup of games is legendary. There not many more skillful if more skillful. The things they did with PS3 nobody did better. They may have matched but didnt do better..
EmperorDalek  +   515d ago
I thought Jak II was pretty bad...
AznGaara  +   516d ago
Sigh...

"An idiot plot is when a character makes a choice that the audience wouldn't make."

Your welcome.
Riderz1337  +   516d ago
You should have 0 bubbles and please do us all a favor and gtfo from this site.
ps3_pwns  +   516d ago
50 disagrees lol. Had you read the article this may have not happend. With that said naughty dog is awesome and if anyone can do it they can.
cpayne93  +   515d ago
It's j-blaze it would have happened anyway. He despises ND for some reason.
wenaldy  +   516d ago
Yo, j-blaze..

Get the fu*k out!!

*waits till marked for personal attack*

Pissed me off
Ezz2013  +   515d ago
j-blaze never dissappoint
he will always be in every ND article oing what he do always
say something lame and BS
and every one fall for it
guys just ignore him
DigitalRaptor  +   515d ago
Ha! j-blaze getting a whip-snapping, and not just from me this time.

How does this fool know that the other devs are "better"? How does he know they "work harder"? How does he know they "make better games" when ND games are recognised and awarded industry wide and not just by a bunch of reviewers?

He doesn't know, he just reads quotes and headlines and watches short gameplay clips without context and claims he knows developers and their games and their design choices. This is just another j-blaze 'bitter & butthurt' again and again.

"David Cage made a whole new genre did they ever mentioned things about owning a specific genre, change the industry".

Are you new to gaming Mr Blaze?? Or do you just not have your eyes open to the PC platform, to which the adventure game has existed for decades. or even a game like Shenmue from the master Suzuki-san. Not only this but David Cage has had this to say for a long time: http://n4g.com/news/1169417... His words are more consistently arrogant than Naughty Dog representatives have ever been.

"they have no respect for other developers"

Says who? You? After 3 generations as solid AAA developers who are bringing out a sensational looking game in The Last of Us, they can be as cocky as they want. As long as their games are always up to the same standard.

"TLoU look nothing special or groundbreaking"

LOL, again your hate for the company supersedes your ability to judge a game on its own merits. Give us actual reasons that can't be proved against, and you will have a point. Otherwise GTFO.

There is a reason you get whipped so bad in replies. So it would really help if you knew what you were talking about before you commented.
#1.16 (Edited 515d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Knight_Crawler  +   516d ago
@ Naughty Dog - Kojima, Quantic Dreams, Team ICO and a few other says hi.

I love Uncharted but ND need to stop thinking that they are gods gift to gaming.

You dont see Kojima or Shigeru Miyamoto acting like this.
#2 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(48) | Report | Reply
CGI-Quality  +   516d ago
Another misinformed user. They just don't learn (nor read).
Reverent  +   516d ago
They don't. In fact, they are pretty modest. Try reading the article, and don't say you did, because your comment says otherwise. People really need to stop posting their comments based on their interpretations of an article's title on this site..

Also, off topic, but I am getting REALLY sick and tired of those stupid Black Ops 2 ads every time I click a damn link around here. That commercial really is not even that funny. (For anyone who doesn't know what I'm talking about, just disregard this last part of my comment)
#2.2 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(16) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
hulk_bash1987  +   516d ago
Haha some one isn't to keen on reading the article before jumping on that high horse.
deSSy2724  +   515d ago
ND never act like that.... even if they make awesome games, they never bash others/competition for no reasons. Even if they are in partnership with Sony they never bash Nintendo developers or systems for example..... more than that, they even praised Nintendo in general numerous times (example N64, some Nintendo games, Wii U etc).... just google damn it AND PLS READ THE ARTICLE!!

ND is one of the best developers in the industry..... they really are.
KwietStorm  +   516d ago
Lol nice way with words
hulk_bash1987  +   516d ago
Lol yeah how bout you read the article before making assumptions.
KwietStorm  +   516d ago
Holy shit..9 disagrees? I was referring to 'idiot plot,' its right there in the title. Assumptions? Assumptions about WHAT? It sounded funny, so I laughed. This is why so many people have a problem with this site. You can't say anything without someone ASSUMING some other motive and downvoting you for it. I never even mentioned Naughty Dog. I love the hell out of Naughty Dog. Amazing..
#3.1.1 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(0) | Report
sdozzo  +   516d ago
Sadly, that's how n4g rolls... Too many people read titles and post.
hulk_bash1987  +   516d ago
Ohh okay that's my bad, vague comment is vague. I guess I'll eat my words and apologize, sorry about that.
#3.1.3 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(0) | Report
peowpeow  +   515d ago
Talk about irony..
Hicken  +   515d ago
Given all the crap that just happened above you, you didn't think to give your comment some context?

Be mad if you want, but you really only have yourself to blame for making such a vague comment.
KwietStorm  +   515d ago
Jesus man give it a rest. There was nothing at all vague about my comment. People who disagreed just took it out of context because, like was already discussed, too much assuming going on. I didn't read any other comments before I wrote mine, and half of them weren't there anyway, because they're replies. You're kidding yourself if you think I'm gonna blame myself for someone else's ignorance. To your own point, I'm still getting disagrees AFTER the explanation to my "vague" comment, when it really ain't that serious.
Zefros  +   516d ago
If some of you guys READ the article, you would have known what naughty dog MEANT by IDIOT plot. Some people are just to stupid to understand...
poopsack  +   516d ago
About the Telltale Walking Dead Comparison comment, the game was fine and all but I've found it easier to become emotionally invested in what little Ive seen of TLOU than the entire TWD series, simply cause of animation and visuals involved. At this point you might be thinking "OHMERGERD GRAPHICS IDIOT" but the point is the cartoonish animation, simple geometry and muddy shaders in telltales game made it difficult to become that invested in its events. And its cinematography could've made up for it (cause being cartoony isn't necessarily bad for drama) but it wasnt quite there. Not hating on TWD, but Im just saying comparisons isnt a thing Naughty Dog is really gonna have to deal with. I never even thought about it until this point.
Norrison  +   516d ago
Only characters I really got invested with were lee, carley and clem.
Last of Us, if performed right, will be a masterpiece.
#5.1 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
ninjahunter  +   516d ago
Hello nameless hero, you our only hope, better go save the world. XD

anyway, i havent played any naughty dog games, but i hope their pacing is good, you cant tell a deep story with lots of info with wrong pacing or 2 things are going to happen
1)it will be boring
2)no one will get it
sdozzo  +   516d ago
Go play some of the uncharted series. Top shelf!
ninjahunter  +   515d ago
Sadly i do not have $300 for a Console, Another $300 for a TV and another $120 for the three games, or i would.
akaakaaka  +   516d ago
forgive the naive hatter's and keep doing the amazing job you guys do!!! ;)
PirateThom  +   516d ago
I like how people think Naughty Dog are insulting other developers and not pointing out a well used trope that they want to avoid.

You know who you are.
kingPoS  +   516d ago
Bring on the immersion Naughty Dog!

In horror movies don't you become annoyed at the main protagonist when they open the front door when he/she hears a strange noise.
#9 (Edited 516d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
Riderz1337  +   516d ago
Before you comment and make an idiotic statement like "Naughty Dog are so full of themselves", I suggest you read the article first.
plaZeHD  +   516d ago
Why is it hard to people like j-blaze to actually read the article? Happens every time. Don't jump to conclusion, read the article first.
vlonjati77  +   516d ago
most of you guys commented more out the idiot jblaze than about the article itself.The smartest thing here and in real life is to ignore.ignore is the nicest way to say f off or whatever.Man cant wait for the Last Of Us.
sdozzo  +   516d ago
Hey, N4G... It's Friday night and I'm getting drunk.
NastyLeftHook0  +   516d ago
drink water after a couple beers, stay hydrated.
Norrison  +   516d ago
I would say eat something to prevent hangovers and get a higher tolerance.
Ezz2013  +   515d ago
try eat something or drink something

i my self never drink or smoke in my life..i don't even drink tea lol
peowpeow  +   515d ago
Oh you ladder goat, you so random
NastyLeftHook0  +   516d ago
they are the best
r21  +   516d ago
j blaze never disappoints when it comes to trolling ND news :L
Father Murder X  +   515d ago
Naughty Dog wants to change the industry by rising above the 'idiot plot'---- so does this mean that there won't be an Uncharted 4?
saint_seya  +   515d ago
shame ND cant change u.. we saw trolls comming, yet we couldnt stop em, hope ND does a better job ;)
smashcrashbash  +   515d ago
People just saw the word 'idiot plot' and ran with it.
baodeus  +   515d ago
then let me ask you guys these:

"Our dream would be for every great game that's trying to tell a story, to do it with proper pacing and character-driven and all of that. If we can do it, if we can prove that it can be done, then people can learn from us."

1. So does he mean that there hasn't been any game out there that have achieve this? Do you guys think that is a true statement?

2. Do you guys think there are any game that could be consider perfect game?

Also when ND said they want to change the industry from idiot plot (i read the dam article so u don't need to rephrase what it means)

1. so does that mean that all game out there (up to date) have suffer idiot plot, as in no games in history have ever get the plot right "parallel to character" before?

2. Do any of ND games have suffer from idiot plot?

3. Could what ND said only applies to certain very popular games (Gears or CoD for example) that most people are fixated toward, but ND isn't referring to other games that do have excellent character driven story?
#17 (Edited 515d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
oakshin  +   515d ago
1) u cant expect them r any1 else 2 play every game ever made 2 find out and its save 2 say 95% of movies even have this "idiot plot" thing

2)each there own its personal preference .... so yes and no

3)its not fair 2 compare ND older games 2 the last of u cuz the last of u team has only made 1 other game ever uncharted 2

and its also important 2 remember 2 be fair 2 the gameing developers in general they dont have the resources that ND does ND has a blank check from sony and work next and with SS one of the single biggest developers studios ever (think SS told colin from ign SS made 14 games inhouse in 2012)
baodeus  +   515d ago
So does that mean that there are at least 5% (since you say 95%) that don't have idiot plot?
- ND can't possibly be responsible for all 5% of entertainment (and im only referring to the game industry, because i don't know what % ND would be if you count everything) that revolve around story driven correct? If that is the case, than can you say that ND isn't the only one who has or will change the industry from idiot plot?
Since you say 95% have idiot plot, could you say that it might be a common thing? It is possible that people do make stupid decisions or doesn't make sense according to your or my view, but it could possibly to make sense to them? Can idiot plot be a preference thing because it depends entirely on what you know and what you don't know (your experience)? Example: look at cupid_viper 3 comments at the top: he said ND aren't 1 hit wonder and they are veteran and a master developers who have the right to critic its perspective (I guess on the game industry as a whole), but here you said, the “A” team have only made UC2 (so who made UC1 and UC3?). So does that mean that the TLOU (team A) has not earned the right to critic anything (only 1 game, which means they aren’t veteran)? Would that also mean that you and viper contradict each other?
So with all that said, how can ND get rid of idiot plot and how can they determine, According to their own preference, based on what they know, what make sense or what doesn't?
It is possible that ND can't ever get rid of idiot plot (in their game as well) because there will always be people that may have different preference?
It is true that many people on here think ND is like a messiah, god given to the game industry, etc….and then only bring out UC2 (what about the rest of their games compare to other developers) as their back up point? Even if you put everything into account (AWARDs, RATING, Sell Number), UC2 isn’t at the top at all. I guess im trying to make sense of what ND said here (like I said above, they might aim at a certain games that sell tones but plaque with idiotic plots only and have nothing to do with developers who actually do try to make better games like CD projekt for example) in a crowd full of ND fanatic which I would consider it an idiotic thing to do here on n4g :D
oakshin  +   515d ago
The last of us team was is a mix and match team uc2 was there first game together but not first games ever r even at ND the lead story director for ND is AMY HENNING the story director of legacy of kain soul rever my favorite gaming frantise of all time and a game series it doesn't have the idiot plot so if any one can do it it ND with Amy at the lead ooooooo if u never played a legacy of kain please do masterpiece to the max they r
ratcop22  +   513d ago
YIKES! That's a bold claim ND! Honestly I wish you guys the very best but, all this hype is very very crazy! Many developers have made the same claim but failed to come even a inch close to there promise. I believe in you guys and I hope the last of us will be the best post apcolyptic game ever.

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