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Submitted by Tolkoto 562d ago | article

Heavy Rain maker argues that games need to grow up and offers nine ways to make that happen

David Cage scolded the game industry for making the same games over and over and urged the game industry to grow up. (David Cage, Dev, Heavy Rain , Industry)

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davidfca  +   562d ago
David Cage is so full of shit I wonder that the man has not burst yet.
joab777  +   562d ago
Is he an idiot? Does he not understand how the works. First of all u need money to make games. To make money u must make games ppl want. These games fund and allow studios to try new things like heavy rain. i liked it but not everyone is gonna. Second of all, games are made for ppl of all ages and wants. Why dont movies have to grow up? Or books? Go finish Beyond, i wanna play it. But guess what, i love ni no kuni, bioshock and all sorts of games too.

Maybe we should just be like China. Give over all our rights and let the government run our lives and keep us safe. Oh wait, i dont wanna be like China and anyone who does can buy a plane ticket and move.
blitz0623  +   562d ago
He has valid points, but he fails to understand video games are nothing more than... well, video games. They are primarily played during someone's free time. They are a habit.

Cage's games are good and innovative, but if he wants the industry to evolve and go after more mature audiences, the video game industry will inevitably die. You can't ignore the fact that the games he mentioned are top sellers, even if they are iterations of each other. They sell, and they are what keeps the industry strong.
#1.1.1 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(3) | Report
miyamoto  +   562d ago
Music 3,000 years old???
Sports 3,000 years old???
Motion Pictures/Films 112 years old
Radio 110 years old
Television 90 years old
Animation 83 years old
American comics 75 years old
Japanese manga 68 years old
Video Games 40 years old

Maybe he wants video games to be accepted by the same majority that patronize all of the above mediums of entertainment and information.

Maybe he wants video games to be about many subject matters and to be relegated to a few types of subject matter like super heroes for American comics and more like Japanese manga which covers just about any subject in Japan.

Maybe he wants video games to grow and mature as the gamer matures and not be relegated to child's plaything status.

Video game medium of entertainment is young and compared to others and its the right time to mold it into a rich, dynamic, relevant and useful medium for entertainment and education.
#1.1.2 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report
ABizzel1  +   561d ago
David Cage is speaking to a mature audience of Gamers, people who want more than the same game every year.

David Cage is explaining how to take games from what people imagine are a child-like hobby, and introduce them into a medium of entertainment comparable to the acceptance of film.

I fully support him and his story for being of that 1% who are willing to take and stand and try something new. And those who don't just aren't mature enough yet to get his vision, and why it's so important that he and more developers think like this.

There will always be your GTA's, and COD's, and everything else, but we've been sitting at 250million console gamers for the last few generations, his ideas are how we move the medium forward for a more adult audience, and I'm not a child anymore. I'm a young adult, and I want those experiences.

If I ever design a game studio his outlook will be one that I share, maybe not to his full degree, but definitely one out studio will constantly dabble in. When game affect your emotional decisions or feelings then they've transcended from mere entertainment to art.
Irishguy95  +   562d ago
Ah piss off Cage, I like your games. Stop whining about other games that I like and that are better than your games. There's room for all genre's in this industry. It's not the gamers fault they like great fun gameplay and not only what you perceive as a good game.

Also, it's nothing but the media's fault that anyone is moaning about sex and violence in video games. It is NOT gamings fault.

Edit--- Kneon

" 4. Become accessible. “Let’s focus on minds, not on thumbs,” he said. “Who cares how fast you can move your fingers?” He said the journey is important, not the challenge. "

I ****ing care about games with challenge, I care about games with gameplay that drags me into it. This is especially the case for the Action genre, hack and slash genre and Shooter genre. What would Cage Say about God of war? A highly anticipated upcoming game?

"5. Bring other talent on board. Like filmmakers.
"

No. Why would I want more film in my games at this stage?

"6. Establish new relationships with Hollywood"

Are you ****ing serious!?

" The answer is games are “interactive” or geared toward kids.
"

Eh no. This is again NOT gaming's fault. It is the media moaning about every little thing. Remember Mass effect? Did that have Sex? Was is used in a childish way? Did the game have political **** in it? Yes it did. What happened? Fox spread **** about it. It's completely the media's fault. Nothing to do with gaming.

"“Press are very clever people who analyze the industry,” "

Cage destroyed his own credibility with his argument. Sorry kneon. He does not know what he is talking about. He thinks HIS game, and HIS story, are something gaming should move towards? I disagree. There is room for everything in gaming, the Media has to ****ing grow up. We still have to listen to shit like "Games kill people! Not guns!" And Cage thinks the gaming industry needs to change?
#1.2 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(14) | Disagree(13) | Report | Reply
-Gespenst-  +   562d ago
I agree with some of what you say Irishguy, but not all of it.

Games DO have to wise up, but Cage isn't the one to do it. He thinks his games are intelligent when they're really just as juvenile as most of the other games he's implicitly complaining about.

It's not "just the media's fault". Games ARE immature. They treat violence and sex on a surface level. Reveling deeply in wilful ignorance about both, and that's not good for a culture, especially as games become more ubiquitous and accepted.

As for challenge in games. I think it's important. While I hate competitiveness, life isn't a pushover, and games should never trick us into thinking that's not the case. Life is challenging, and while games serve well as escapism, they shouldn't become too complacent. Challenge keeps us alive and awake.

"Establishing relationships with Hollywood" is of course the wrong direction to take. Games contain music and film, but don't revolve around them, those things contribute to it, provide a means for games to be considered as art. The game has to learn to tell it's story in it's own terms too (Think Half Life 2)

Games just need (much) more intelligent, well read (and watched), imaginative and inventive writers. They can't rely on people who've been writing exclusively for films.

David Cage wants to make films at heart, he should just do that. (Though they might suck)
kneon  +   562d ago
Did you bother to read the article, because he's absolutely right.

Or perhaps you're just commenting on the title, which seems to be the norm here on N4G. Even the title is correct. Most of the supposed M rated games are clearly designed for a 12 year old.
BlackTar187  +   562d ago
They most likely didn't they just use title and run with it. Either that or they are so defensive they are unable to see outside their bubble.
1nsomniac  +   562d ago
Your a bell end. Go play with the other sheep!

David Cage is a hero. Not afraid to speak out or try new things, wants progression & is fed up of developer laziness.
#1.4 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
-Gespenst-  +   562d ago
That's rich coming from Cage. Fahrenheit is like the most immature thing ever. Lead guy's an introverted, moody guy with a dull office job (i.e the writer of the game) until WHAM gets thrown into an occult conspiracy and becomes Neo from the matrix with super powers (i.e. ego-trip / delusions of grandeur on the part of the writer) Yeah, real grown up.

As for Heavy Rain, the game's just Saw. It tries to be intellectual and profound with it's thinly explored themes of fatherhood and it's melodramatic music and it's (completely meaningless and obligatory) dream sequences, but it still has all these stupid little juvenile fascinations with "Origami killers" and "cool" technology and fight sequences, and grievous saw like trials with all the inventiveness of a 6 year old child. Not to mention the dreadful script and voice acting.

Quantic Dream is overrated.
#1.5 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(10) | Report | Reply
Reverent  +   562d ago
No offense man, but let's see you write a better script and turn it into a video game as successful as Heavy Rain was.
I agree and disagree with him..
Reverent  +   562d ago
I'm in the same position. I think he's a really talented guy and I like his work, but I also don't really believe he quite has the right to tell the rest of the industry what to do. Not sure how to feel at this point.
Good_Guy_Jamal  +   562d ago
Overrated and pretentious. I don't want to watch an interactive movie, I want actual gameplay. No thanx Mr Cage. How about you make games that YOU want to play and I'll have some more Mario and Rayman please.
I'm glad I live in a world where I can choose to play what I want and not be at the mercy of an overly self loving man's whim.
#1.7 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(3) | Report | Reply
Oh_Yeah  +   562d ago
Games are first and foremost about gameplay, always will be...they are games after all. The story comes 2nd and it's a bonus to have a good one yeah but more important than gameplay? No. So David...start critiquing when you have made an actual game... K. Dont get me wrong I like his interactive movies, theres certainly a space for them in the game industry.. But don't sit there and talk down on games until you have made a traditional game yourself.
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JeffGrubb  +   562d ago
A Caged David is my new blue grass band that only sings lyrics from David Cage dialogue.
SybaRat  +   562d ago
I don't wanna grow up. I'm a Toys R Us kid.
Kran  +   562d ago
I don't wanna grow up; I wanna' be a Toys R Us kid*

Get it rittttttttte :)
ApolloTheBoss  +   562d ago
Lmao loved those commercials.
Lifeequals42  +   562d ago
David Cage speaks the truth. Why, in nearly half a century, have games scarcely progressed past the following modus operandi: Kill everything. Gaming is a new medium, but it's done very little growing up.
matrixman92  +   562d ago
JAAAAAAAASON!!!
banjadude  +   561d ago
Gotta press X!
BitbyDeath  +   562d ago
"If the main character can’t hold a gun, designers don’t know what to do. How do I play?"

Ha, so true. Sony need to buy QD. His points will only lead to extending the life of gaming so people shouldn't be against it.
#6 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(9) | Disagree(11) | Report | Reply
LightofDarkness  +   562d ago
A plethora of Nintendo titles beg to differ, among many others. This guy just doesn't like shooter dominance and wants everyone to think he has the best alternative.

Except I don't believe slightly interactive movies are a better alternative. They've been around since Dragon's Lair and Space Ace, and we sort moved on from there. I'm not saying there's no room for the genre, I'm just saying it is not in itself a means of maturing or elevating the medium.

I can certainly appreciate big stories in games, but I can also appreciate games that have a paucity of exposition, where the story is told through actual gameplay (not the "use analog sticks to brush teeth" QTE type), and often have a much better time when story/narrative is conveyed as an experience, rather than a strictly controlled expository sequence like a cutscene.

Games are predicated on interactivity, it's the element that sets it apart from all other forms. I'm sorry if he can't see the art in finely crafted gameplay and experiences, and needs a handholding narrative to keep him invested. But he shouldn't try to tell people they're luddites and mouth breathers because they don't think like he does.
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BitbyDeath  +   562d ago
I don't think he is saying all games need to be interactive dramas, just that gaming needs to expand from what it is.

Genre diversity should always be pushed.
CouldHaveYelledUiiW  +   562d ago
He is right. I am not saying that all games have to be that way but it bugs me to have a photo-realistic game and you can't do anything without a gun in your hand.
CynicalKelly  +   562d ago
Heavy Rain was a boring ass game. His words hold no merit.
ratcop22  +   562d ago
Honestly where has he been if he's saying all of this? Point 2 to says-Change our paradigms. “We cannot keep doing same games all the time,” he said. “Violence and platforms are not the only way. We have to decide that as an industry.” He added, “If the main character can’t hold a gun, designers don’t know what to do. How do I play?
Has he not played journey, Dear esther, and Dishonored and etc? Those games aren't violent and in Dishonored's taste you can play it without hurting a fly! Also Point 1 where he says games should reach a larger audience again where has he been?? If i'm not mistaken the Wii alone has brought in a whole new demographic with motion controls. Next point 3- You guys can beat me with a stick but every game i've played so far has had a message of what the developers are thinking. Bioshock, Mass effect, hell even Amensia and etc. MOST have messages. Point 4- Again if this David cage is only focusing on Cod/Bf then he hasn't played games. Ponit 5- We don't have to we can take notes from films and what not but I do encourage that. Infact most cinematic games do that already. (I would list the other points but this David Cage is a fool!
RTheRebel  +   562d ago
yea hes full of himself
ratcop22  +   562d ago
I will suppourt Beyond, but he's pissing me off.
dgonza40  +   562d ago
Yeah, he's getting annoying.

Like in movies or music, you can have both.
SAE  +   562d ago
Why ?. He's just giving points of what he thinks to make gaming evolve . he have good points . best example is call of duty. just shoot and kill. no point of playing unless you are playing against your friends. Other developers trying to do what call of duty doing right now instead of doing new things. so a lots of games having the same idea . that's why i got bored of cod . It was great when cod4/5 released but after that it started to getting old. There are developers that do new things and work hard to deliver but not a lot .Games could be much much better . It could be better then movies because in movies you just watch the story but in games you controle everything and get a story too thats why you see movies created from games ...
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ratcop22  +   562d ago
Lol half of your comment was about Cod. If you think that's all gaming is then you're no better then this naive man. I will say many games are copying Cod but not all games in general. I.e Journey,Walking dead,Dear Esther, and etc. Maybe if he made his points make more sense I wouldn't be so pissed.
contradictory  +   562d ago
i'm kinda depressed about that every game ever that comes out has to be FPS or younger people will not like it.

that's literally the criteria of good game for some "hardcore" assholes that went to the same school as me
expect instead of being hardcore they were superbly stereotypical 24/7 CoD players...
grailly  +   562d ago
it's always weird to talk games with these people.

This guy in my class was telling me how he thought that when farcry 3 "prompted you to press buttons on-screen" it was great. I guess it was his first QTE experience ever, and thought it was awesome, lol.
contradictory  +   562d ago
LOL
Jek_Porkins  +   562d ago
I'm all for free speech, but this guy is quickly someone I turn away from when he speaks. I play all different kinds of games, not just shooters. Shooters will always be popular because a lot of them are just in the culture and the casual gamer outnumbers the core gamer.

There is room to grow of course, but it isn't exactly like he's trying to make it out in my opinion.
e-p-ayeaH  +   562d ago
Whatever this guy says doesnt change a thing

Now someone like Kojima now that´s someone that means business
Ducky  +   562d ago
So, he wants games made for a wider audience, with even less challenge.
He overlooks games that don't emphasize violence since any games that does is somehow aimed at kids. I suppose point and click adventure games never existed.
Overlooks games that have addressed social issues (MGS, DeusEx, Bioshock, etc)

... and make games more like film by involving Hollywood.
Not sure I want games to grow up if that's the direction they're going to go.
#14 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(7) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
linkenski  +   562d ago
David Cage is as arrogant as any man can be. He isn't very humble to other gamers and developers, nor does he seem to respect them. He's always makiking that typical childish fuss "Well i'm doing it like THIS, so i don't see why YOU are not doing it the same way that I do it"

We'll give you an applause Cage. Heavy Rain was an evolution of gaming in a certain direction, but it doesn't mean that other games need to change format so they apply to your ideals.

Okay so let's say i'm a musician. I walk into a room full of Jazz enthusiasts, but i come from the rock'n'roll-genre, so i tell them that they're doing it all wrong. I say "music isn't supposed to sound skewed like this" "this isn't a competition to see who can put as many notes within a bar as possible. We need to change this" Essentially i'm the same as David Cage if i do that, but instead i should really just focus on my Rock'n'Roll and forget about Jazz, because it's not really what i'm trying to make.
#15 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(11) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
TongkatAli  +   562d ago
I liked Heavy Rain. It looked good on my TV and the story wasn't bad, LOL. Good game to show off the TV and casuals love stories like the one Heavy Rain had.

"The acting was bad" Go watch Step Up or Batman and Robin to learn was is bad acting and a bad story.
mayberry  +   562d ago
I totally agree with most of his points, especially #9, US gamers can use our wallets to do more to affect this industries freedom to take our money at a maximum, and give us a minimal product! I've obersved this trend getting worse, not better over the years! Game associated companies have figured out that our love for our 'hobby' has allowed them to expand their profit margins very disproportionatly to the product we receive. Paid DLC on disc, online subscriptions, inferior ports, and on and on. While those things aren't necessarily that bad, they will get more agressive if not checked.
rainslacker  +   562d ago
While I agree consumers should vote with their wallets, the fact remains that there is a significant number of people that want games that offer what they do. If there weren't we wouldn't see these practices today. I don't like the things you listed, and I vote with my wallet, but it hasn't made a difference this gen, and that's unlikely to change with gaming becoming more mainstream. Games have to cater to as many people to make a profit, and it's one of the reasons why gaming isn't innovating much anymore.

Telling people their purchasing decisions are faulty is the wrong way to go. If you can show them what your talking about, instead of just disparaging their decision to buy every COD that comes out, then maybe they will come to appreciate gaming more, and give their money to where it counts. Either way though, those purchases are things that have value to them, and if they are OK with it, then there isn't much you can do but expand their horizons.
Sharp  +   562d ago
I like the guy.

He is just trying to make a difference in the industry.

Plus, his games are ambitious and he always creates a new IP, where he has sort of cameo appearances of the previous mechanics he worked on.

Once you realize David Cage is just a human being, just like you and me, and not our servant who creates us games we can bash, then you might actually respect him.

To be honest, respecting him is quite easy for me. Sure, he talks a lot, but hey, so do our lecturers in Unis and our bosses in our daily jobs. The point is to get the best out of it and carry on.

I also suggest Jonathan Blow's lecture about games and human condition. It really gives you an idea how complicated it is to be a game designer.

David Cage will be in history books sometime soon, mark my words. That Kara demo made me almost cry! :)
alegolo  +   562d ago
I liked Heavy Rain and Im waiting for Beyond: Two Souls but I DO NOT AGREE with most of the stuff he said
Bathyj  +   562d ago
Its funny that when he says the games industry should grow up, people start reacting like children.
Sharp  +   562d ago
Spot on!
3-4-5  +   562d ago
So it's our fault they can't market their games ?
ChocolateGiddyUp  +   562d ago
I'd just like to point out that a character in Heavy Rain actually uses the phrase, "You go, girl."

When the guy who wrote that line tells you to "remember the importance of meaning," you shouldn't take it too seriously.
#22 (Edited 562d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
mochachino  +   562d ago
I agree with a lot of that list but I don't think game controls should be overly simplified. The best games have great gameplay and great story - for me both are necessary.
SAE  +   562d ago
Exactly. He is making good points. Developers must take them. Try to make something meaningful but in the same time make good gameplay . most games just focus on gameplay because it's just a game and that's a wrong thing...
SAE  +   562d ago
You guys think he's talking without knowing after watching this video ?. If you can't understand this video then it only proves him right ..

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

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