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Submitted by Ezz2013 523d ago | article

Digital Foundry: Wii U graphics power finally revealed

While there's still room for plenty of debate about the Wii U Digital Foundry: hardware, the core fundamentals are now in place and effectively we have something approaching a full spec. It took an extraordinary effort to get this far and you may be wondering quite why it took a reverse engineering specialist using ultra-magnification photography to get this information, when we already know the equivalent data for Durango and Orbis. The answer is fairly straightforward - leaks tend to derive from development kit and SDK documentation and, as we understand it, this crucial information simply wasn't available in Nintendo's papers, with developers essentially left to their own devices to figure out the performance level of the hardware. (Wii U)

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decrypt  +   523d ago
Nintendo knows...

"Console gamers.. Dont care about graphics"

Wii U will be fine, 4 million console gamers already bought it.
Erudito87  +   523d ago | Well said
except for the ps3 which is has some the best looking games out there
deadpoole  +   523d ago | Well said
what I don't get is the $$$$ price of WiiU ... why the heck is it soooo expensive.

It's like Nintendo is sellin CRT TV with the price tag of OLED Tele and for some bizarre reason people are still buyin it.
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Mocat  +   523d ago
@deadpoole

Yes this, i two little nephews that really like Mario games but the price of the new console plus €60 for games, thats just too much.
kayoss  +   523d ago
@deadpool
I think its not the console that is expensive. I think its the tablet that came with it. I remember Nintendo mentioning that it cost about $230 just for the tablet.
ABizzel1  +   523d ago
I hate to be the one to say I told you so, but there it is.

I've been saying this for the longest, NIntendo has made some incredibly bamboozling decisions with the Wii-U.

Now that we officially know the GPU, there's absolutely no way Nintendo is losing money on each console sold. That's COMPLETE BS. They're losing money because software sales have not been able to recoup the cost of marketing the Wii-U, and other factors that have nothing to do with production.

That's $35 / $50 GPU at retail (4650 / 4670), and the CPU can't be no more than $50 either considering it's tech from 2000 that was used in the Gamecube.

The overall CPU + GPU + RAM combo for the Wii-U is easily under $100 which means the Wii-U actually cost about $250 to make, and that's simple thanks to the tablet controller or else it would right at $200. And the funny thing about it is the Wii-U could have easily used an AMD A8 Llano APU and have a better console for a similar price, and still had been able to get next-gen ports (albeit in 720p @ 30fps low settings). They wouldn't have a bottlenecked CPU, and they'd have a much better GPU.

It's funny how people who know nothing about tech were constantly disagreeing with me, but the ignorant would rather be ignorant, than enlightened, so hopefully NIntendo really gets some 3rd party on board, because when the PS4 and Xbox 1080 come out, it's back to the Wii days with vastly inferior ports, or flat-out no support.
ElectricKaibutsu  +   523d ago
In the NeoGAF thread mentioned in the article, someone mentioned how strange it is for the article to sound so sure of itself when so much on the die is custom and therefore unknown:

"The Digital Foundry Hypothesis

SPUs: 8 blocks (N1-N8)
TMUs: 4 blocks (J1-J4)
ROPS: 2 blocks ? (no proposed location)
ARM: 1 block (no proposed location)
DSP: 1 block (no proposed location)
Video encode/decode: 1 block (no proposed location)

Total blocks explained: 17 (12 with locations)
Total blocks unexplained: 23"

Edit: I should just add the article sounds legit to me. This NeoGAF quote is just food for thought.
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Blastoise  +   523d ago
Not gonna lie, I know nothing about these specs.
It's all a bit too technical for me.

Anyone fancy breaking it down for me in English?
:P
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Zhipp  +   523d ago
@ElectricKaibutsu
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed in Digital Foundry. The guys down at Neogaf are doing a considerably better job figuring out and explaining the exact potential of the chip. DF didn't even go into any detail on the GPUs extremely unorthodox design.

@ABizzel1
The major customizations Nintendo had made to the GPU could not have come cheap, and they may also result in superior performance in reality than on paper, not unlike the Gamecube.
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Perjoss  +   523d ago
"I remember Nintendo mentioning that it cost about $230 just for the tablet."

I read somewhere of someone ordering a replacement wiiu gamepad for $90, not sure if that's true or not.
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Ripsta7th  +   523d ago
People that enjoy Nintendo franchises will still buy it over the ps4, not everyone foes for graphics
metroid32  +   523d ago
The statement doesn't know what the gpu is,i emailed AMD and this is what they said.

http://nintendoculture.file...

It's not a HD4650/4670 what a laugh that is the chip supports dx11 obviously using Opengl4.1 ?

If u read it,it says going off previous rumours RV700 ect they just found a chip in that series that has a few specs the same and they are way out Unity4 is supported on wiiu dx11 basically,Gearbox is developing a FPS using UE4 on wiiu and they had problems on their ps4 devkits,Michel ancel said no limitations we even did super hd textures and forgot to compress them and the game still ran smooth ??

U can get comparable specs across different series ect 4000,5000,6000,7000,but in the later series dx11 was supported and that's what wiiu supports going off Unity4,Ubisoft,AMD,Gearbox ect ect.

Also Xenoblade and Beyonetta wouldnt be possible on that chip ??? these guys are talking rubbish as their is an UE4 game in the works as well this is just finding out speeds and trying to couple that with the wrong line on chips ie 4000 series,when in real respect its a E6760 custom.
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RustedMan  +   523d ago
@ deadpoole

Nintendo fell in love with the "Apple Mentality".
WrAiTh Sp3cTr3  +   523d ago
Eurogamer is a pro Sony website but they usually have to eat crow during head2head tech analysis. They'll tell you to buy the 360 version of a game because the facts cannot be disproven under such a microscope but they send little jabs at the 360 by downplaying its superiority in areas where it shines but they'll exaggerate those same benefits if the game comes out better for the PS3. But make no mistake about it, they don't like Nintendo. They havent even done a tech analysis on the Monolith project, which should also raise some eyebrows. But then again they may be short of staff. I respect them for their no-how but that's where it stops.
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edgeofsins  +   523d ago
It is $300 at launch. How is that expensive? Not to mention it is sold at a loss. Some of the worst console gamers. It is just like the handheld argument. Why do people think that handhelds have to be $100 or less? The games are what really matter and they have great performance now.
AsimLeonheart  +   523d ago
Where are Nintendo fans who claimed it to be next-gen powerful and not much weaker than PS4/Durango? It is confirmed beyond doubt now that Wii U is actually "WiiK U".
meetajhu  +   523d ago
@metroid

Cool story bro. Directx 11? Exclusive ue4 fps? Go to anandtech and run 4650 benchmark and laugh at urself.
Gamer1982  +   523d ago
Its expensive as that handheld controller costs more than half of the asking price! Why do you think you cannot buy a second controller yet? The console itself is only $150 the handheld though is $200 more than the console thanks to the technology it uses. Its more modern and up to date thus costing more to manufacture.
Stroke666  +   523d ago
@deadpool... arebyou serious? what do you think a new console should cost? its $350 thats nothing for a next-gen console. so do you expect to pick up an orbis or durango, because if the "underpowered wii u" is being sold at a loss and thats too much for you what do you expect those consoles to cost. its better than last gen consoles and selling for damn near the same price are you kidding me? crt tv? bad analogy, its more you want to buy a 4k tv for the price of a crt.
Ju  +   523d ago
It isn't $350 for a next gen console. It's 350 for a PS3++ without a HDD (but 32BG) and a fancy controller. That's the problem. No HDD should be far below $300. You get a 500GB PS3 for the same price...incl. game(s).
ElectricKaibutsu  +   523d ago
A person from Chipworks (the reverse engineering company that scanned the GPU) had some interesting insight:

"Been reading some of the comments on your thread and have a few of my own to use as you wish.

1. This GPU is custom.
2. If it was based on ATI/AMD or a Radeon-like design, the chip would carry die marks to reflect that. Everybody has to recognize the licensing. It has none. Only Renesas name which is a former unit of NEC.
3. This chip is fabricated in a 40 nm advanced CMOS process at TSMC and is not low tech
4. For reference sake, the Apple A6 is fabricated in a 32 nm CMOS process and is also designed from scratch. It’s manufacturing costs, in volumes of 100k or more, about $26 - $30 a pop. Over 16 months degrade to about $15 each
a. Wii U only represents like 30M units per annum vs iPhone which is more like 100M units per annum. Put things in perspective.
5. This Wii U GPU costs more than that by about $20-$40 bucks each making it a very expensive piece of kit. Combine that with the IBM CPU and the Flash chip all on the same package and this whole thing is closer to $100 a piece when you add it all up
6. The Wii U main processor package is a very impressive piece of hardware when its said and done.

Trust me on this. It may not have water cooling and heat sinks the size of a brownie, but its one slick piece of silicon. eDRAM is not cheap to make. That is why not everybody does it. Cause its so dam expensive."
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Ritsujun  +   523d ago
Only sissies (e.g. Justin Bieber) love those childish/girlish/family Nintendo games,
i bet JB owns all Nintendo consoles and handheld consoles.
It's like playing iOS/Android games on a large screen, oh puking god.
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kelseypaul15   523d ago | Spam
corrus  +   522d ago
Yeah i doubt that Wii U will have games with graphics like Uncharted or Heavy Rain
mcstorm  +   522d ago
What I love about all this my device is better or more powerful than yours is why are people so obsessed with it all?

At the end of the day its a games console and all I want to see is new games on each console. I love the Nintendo own IP's and as long as the games Sony Microsoft Nintendo, EA, activision ect keep brining out games I want to play and that are fun to play then what is everyone's problem.

I remember being in school and the PSX and N64 came out and there was no my system is the best it was about have you played GT or Golden eye ect.

Stop going on with who has more power and ram and saying mine is better than your and press the power button on the console of your choice pickup the controller and play the game you like and tell everyone how good the game you like is, but don't site there moaning about what you don't like.
user3915800  +   523d ago
It was ballpark speculation at the time based on what we had eyeballed at the event, but the final GPU is indeed a close match to the 4650/4670, albeit with a deficit in the number of texture-mapping units and a lower clock speed - 550MHz. AMD's RV770 hardware is well documented so with these numbers we can now, categorically, finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U - the GCN hardware in Durango and Orbis is in a completely different league.All of which may lead some to wonder quite why many of the Wii U ports disappoint - especially Black Ops 2, which appears to have been derived from the Xbox 360 version, running more slowly even at the same 880x720 sub-hd resolution.

No surprise at all, the wii-u competes with outdated hardware the 360 and ps3. 720 AND PS4 will rule next gen cause wiiu its current gen. Next gen dont start until ps4 and 720 comes out, end of story.
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scissor_runner  +   523d ago
It's weird that this is a tech site and they confirmed the embedded ram and ignore it. 4600s do not have embedded SRAM. I believe they are lashing out at nintendo because of the non reveal of deep specs. there has been some serious reworking of this chip.

If you are a tech head your curious if you are a fanboy then you will just go on believing what you are feed.

We will be talking about this tech for a while. It seems, gpgpus are not fully understood yet. Ms and Sony could come out with $600 machines and beat the wiiu tech wise. Yet people play games not tech.

What is also sad is we might only see a small jump graphically while pc is about to so a huge jump soon.

I think the issue is the idea that the tech gap is going to be too big for ports. All next gen consoles have a gpgpu setup. They will all strong somewhat with current gen practices. They will all have to reeducate their teams to take advantage of this setup.

So games will look like better running ps3/xbox360 games at first and I'm sure Sony will show target renders for games 2-3 years from release. That works for their fanbase and the media yet they still have not solved a key problem, games. When Sony tries to make games cloning nintendo game play they fail. First the smash/karting clones.

Ultimidely every thing will hinge on does it look and play good not on does it have graphic effects. That crown will still go to the pc since the other next gen consoles can not even run unreal 4 with out some major scaling.

Hopfully that is not the case as Apis reveal more functions and the development docs get fleshed out.

This will be a interesting gen none the less. Also there is the fact that we have reached a good enough point verses cost with many gamers and developers a like. People swinging for the fences are on pc, graphically.

Plus you can not rule out that fact that Nintendo has figured out 3d game play that is fun while Sony keep fualtering in genres that nintendo is hugly successful in.

The only problem nintendo needs to solve is getting more hd content creators. Which they are currently doing.
metroid32  +   523d ago
try this link ??

http://nintendoculture.file...

The hardware is fine the gpu is around £70.
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Dasteru  +   523d ago
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sonic989  +   523d ago
LOL @ SCISSOR_RUNNER
sony copies and fail didnt know that sly cooper was a failure ratchet and clank uncharted and others lol.
and whats the fuzz every time a console is disclosed to be weak then right away the fans jump into the pc is this and pc is that ( while ignoring that pc games wont change that much because it would need support to have those features implemented so most of the games ( if even released on the pc in the first place ) will be dumped down to save costs first and to make a the revenue they wont out from every console ( ps3 and xbox 360 situation )
so the next jump in the pc gaming would start when next generation is about to end like what happened this gen and the gen before )
all those technological advancements and believe me when i say most of these hardware today are capable of going beyond DX11 but microsoft wont make their console look old quickly so extra power wasted already without even mentioning that most devs favor the consoles over the pc .
lets return to the wii u it will have great games nevertheless i remember when i played wind waker at my friend's place it was a great fun and beautiful game but lets not pretend that sony and microsoft have nothing in comparison cause that would be stupid and nonsense at its maximum level THANK YOU
RememberThe357  +   523d ago
sonic989
What are you in kindergarten? Learn some grammar, I couldn't get past the first 5 words and I just gave up.
scissor_runner  +   523d ago
Ok sonic what about that kart failure? What about that smash bros clone that failed? The list goes on. I'm not here to be down on Sony and I would love it if they did get some parity. I really don't like movie games with sub par stories. the graphic hype is a none starter if the game is not fun just ask any crysis fan.

Also pc devs are shooting for the low hanging fruit. Console gamers will buy any thing hyped up enough. Now steam is a real option to consoles. Linux is any option over windows 8 and open gl can and will go beyond ms only API then you have nvidia who are developing cuda. Seriously sonic go and download a few game engine demos, buy some pc games with the full editor and dig into that.

We bring pc up because it is a reality and if you want the best then you go for the best. Unfortunately there is no nintendo on pc.

Pc, mods, level editors, steam and tons of indie friendly engines almost for free. Then you just get a wiiu for nintendo version of game play. If Nintendo made mods possible on the wiiu, true mods and or game engine access the system would compliment pc gaming even more.

It's great Sony has a following here but this better not turn into a vita or smash bro clone failure. I bet they are really frustrated to see so much hype not turn into sales. Beating up on nintendo is not going to get you any where though. I'd advise you go to the Sony fan articles and make sure they buy the hype instead of just giving it lip services.
clyde san  +   523d ago
@ scissor_runner
i have to agree with sonic989 here. your post was "nonsense at its maximum level"

I'm going to go along with the majority here and disagree with your posts and heres why.

1. You say sony has not solved a key problem, games. In response to that i say THE LAST OF US. That game looks freaking amazing everyone is gushing over it.

you think the company that has dominated and i mean DOMINATED the last two generations doesn't know about games?!?!

Again, the last of us, i only refer to it as it is the most recent example. GAMERS are dying for it!

but i guess your right, sony knows nothing about games, they never sold over millions of software right, only nintendo has? lets forget for example gran turismo.

2. then in your first post you said "When Sony tries to make games cloning nintendo game play they fail. First the smash/karting clones." but in your second post you say " Ok sonic what about that kart failure? What about that smash bros clone that failed? The list goes on. "

the list goes on yet you keep harping on the same two examples??

lets say you're right and sony's karting game and all stars where failures, so what? at least they attempted something new for there customers. maybe there karting game isn't the best, but props to sony for trying to bring one to there platform so that they can have a well rounded plattform with different kind of games.

nintendo made great games, sony is trying to emulate them, good for sony fans. on sony's platform you can get an amazing simulation racer (gran turismo) and an good, not great kart racer. on nintendos platform you can get an amazing kart racer and thats it, there is no great or even okay simulation racer that nintendo puts out.

this is why overall sony has a greater appeal and dominated nintendo in the home market with ps1 and ps2. they made a mistake and made a grossly overpriced ps3 and wii benefited with its much more cheaper price and innovate control scheme that was hugely imitated by competitors.

but try not to draw all your examples from sony's failures and look at the whole picture.

3. and lastly, what nintendo games were sony cloning when they came out with ICO/Shadow, uncharted, last of us, heavy rain, gran turismo, god of war, singstar, resistance etc..

sure sony may have copied the move controller from the wii mote, but my point is there are still many types of games and experience to be had on playstation that are not on nintendos systems.

you talk about sony's problems being games, but there are more games and pieces of software sold on ps1 ps2 and ps3 than there is on n64 gamecube, and wii.

i have a ps3, cus i don't get god of war, last of us, gran turismo and all sorts of cool experimental games like journey on wii.

and i have a wii cus i don't get mario, kirby and donkey kong.

stop the fanboyism.

ps. (resistance may have been sony trying to copy microsofts success with halo. my point, nintendo is not the be all end all - they are not some gold standard that all videogame companies try to live up to, though they are a great company. there are many good companies that make great games that are massive sales success too. it's much more likely that when microsoft entered this market they were looking at sony and the success sony was having and tried to emulate sony's practices more than they did nintendos to find the success that they(microsoft) eventually did. )
TheEnigma313  +   523d ago
Actually it's 2.5 million bought and 4 million shipped.
WiiUsauce  +   523d ago
false.
xursz  +   523d ago
Shipped is correct. This is what Nintendo reported.
TheTwelve  +   523d ago
Oh don't worry, Deadpoole...the WiiU price will drop SOON. They can't get away with that price for this hardware for very long. - 12
RevXM  +   523d ago
They can't?
Wii begs to differ.

Where I live the Wii cost nearly the same as a 360 (arcade version anyways) back when they came out.
That is outrageous, and its the same reason Im not getting a WiiU now.

Also that Wii U controller prolly aint as expensive to make as some of you think.
Rather low spec restitive plastic screen, audio jack and wireless connectivity to WiiU console, low res plastic lens camera and a wii sensor bar thingy. there is nothing really big about it although it is pretty cool.

The console hardfware it self surely is not worth much more than 100 bucks if even that, how much does that leave to the controller?
200 dollars? Lmao, there is just no way.
But Nintendo will get away with it anyways because they will have the lowest price vs the upcoming xbox and ps4.
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Stroke666  +   523d ago
you guys are buggin out, the seven year old ps3/xbox360 are selling around the 300 mark( 199 if you sign in blood to get xbox live for two years) and the wii u which is better tech is selling around the same and its selling at a loss. you must not plan on getting the $600 dollar consoles that sonysoft may be coming out with, if their specs hold true. even with mods plan on spending $100-$150 more the wii u premium. as for the gamepad being cheaper than they say, i think your forgetting the gyroscope, accelerometers and g sensor tech in it. the mic, the plastic TOUCH screen, stereo speakers, nfc, rumble sensor bar, lithium ion battery, yeah no way that can cost that much. lol its alot more than a wii mote with a screen
herbs  +   523d ago
I guarantee there will be a significant price drop (prob $100) the same week the Orbangos launch (prob late November) accompanied with must have Nintendo exclusives.
squarecircle  +   522d ago
You may disagree with the price of the Wii U, but the fact is they can't drop the price. They're already selling the console at a loss and it would be insane if they made even more of a loss on each console.
Trekster_Gamer  +   523d ago
Speak for yourself! I love a powerful system. A powerful system is more, MUCH more than mere graphics.

CASUAL CONSOLE gamers most likely don't care or have any idea of what processing power is all about.

Serious gamers do care!
deSSy2724  +   523d ago
Than buy a PC...... i have a PS3 and Wii for exclusives and PC for multiplats.
kopite96  +   523d ago
what utter tripe, iv been playing games for donkeys years, i dont give a hoot about power and graphics, im here for the gameplay, iv owned almost every console.

i concider myself a serious gamer, i look at the console im buying and ask does it meet what i want if the answer is yes then its all good.

to call people not serious gamers because they dont give to ****s about the specs is just ignorant, does it really matter what the WII U has, i own one and i find it fun and enjoyable and i find the ps3 fun and enjoyable, and thats the main focus here
TheLeapist  +   523d ago
Yeah it drives me nuts when people try and claim that a more powerful machine merely means larger textures and a higher polygon count. If you think that all games this gen could be simply dumbed down in graphics to work on last gen consoles and still maintain the exact same gameplay, then you are sorely mistaken.
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givemeshelter  +   523d ago
@Trekster
Then your best bet is buying a custom built gaming PC if you love power. You will never get power from a console based on its closed architectural design.
WiiUsauce  +   523d ago
if you're a "serious gamer" that cares about graphics, then you shouldn't even be anywhere near a console and game solely on PC if you care about graphics that much, noob.
RememberThe357  +   523d ago
If you don't care about graphics and power then don't upgrade. It's pretty simple. I'm a console gamer and the only thing that has impressed me on the Wii U is Xenoblade.

If I'm going to go out and buy a new console it needs to blow me away. The Wii U hasn't done that as I've been seeing what the Wii U can do for 7 years on the 360 and PS3.

@TheLeapist: I don't get why your getting so many disagrees; your completely right. This fuckin site is so out of touch with reality sometimes. Why reject reality just to defend your position in an argument?

Oh and I cursed, I guess you'll have to take my last bubble...
Main_Street_Saint  +   522d ago
@Trekster,

How ironic, serious gamer.
I still want a wiiU eventually becuase of some good looking games. but It is still weakU.

More excited for ps4 though.
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GraveLord  +   523d ago
Actually more like 2.5million.
4 Million is the number they expect to ship by the end of March which is down from their previous 5.5m forecast. At the moment it is looking extremly likely they will miss their 4m forecast as well.

No, graphics aren't everything, but then again power is more than just graphics. Think about that for a second.
bullymangLer  +   523d ago
Okay. So nintendos gonna show us what their games will look likewith a ps3 or 360 powerd system = wiiU

And all i hear is confused people talking bout the ps4 this 720 that? . Yep this years E3 is gonna blow your souLs away
SilentNegotiator  +   523d ago
When will the denial end? CASUAL gamers don't care about graphics, but the core absolutely do. Stop seeing the Wii as a benchmark; it was one of the first consoles ever marketing towards "weight loss" and grannies, etc.

Nintendo didn't make a very generational leap and even made the hardware weaker in some areas next to 7th gen systems.

Everyone knows that the "hidden power" stuff isn't worth it. Even for the slightly more impressive things PS3 did than the 360 some times, it wasn't worth all of the iffy ports it got.

It doesn't have to be a bad thing that Wii U isn't very strong considering that it launched in 2012; maybe it will perk back up and start selling well again. But for a lot of people, it's very disappointing and fanatics have to deal with that.
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Stroke666  +   523d ago
ummmm I'm what the kids nowadays would call a core gamer. and i couldnt care less about graphics, when i played coleco vision didnt give a shit, atari, i didnt give a shit, nes, i didnt give a shit, sega master system genesis snes turbo graphix so on and so forth you get the jist. I'm an old school core gamer that plays games for the gaming experience, graphics is in most cases just a perk not a nessecity. people have seemed to obliterate the thick line between a core gamer and a graphic whore. the core gamer will argue on all side of this debate for you. the newbie graphics whore who thinks he is a core gamer cause he only plays game with blood and an m rating cause mommy lets him would say exactly what you just did. and wii u is simply stronger than last gen builds period not equal not weaker in some areas simply more powerful no matter how miniscule. will the next sonysoft outing be more powerful? i cant wait to see but my wallet sure can lmao
SilentNegotiator  +   523d ago
I didn't care that games were 8/16-bit either.....in the 80s and early 90s, that is.

We've come a long way and embracing nicer graphics isn't a weakness.
007Bond  +   523d ago
I don't even see the WII U as a gamers console, so many families who never play video games have it in their living room. It's like the new trend that every other robot follows it will die out eventually and Nintendo will be no more.
WiiUsauce  +   523d ago
Console gamers do care about graphics to a certain extent. Graphics aren't everything, but pretty visuals are needed for a game to be more immersive and engrossing. But the graphics argument with the Wii U is irrelevant.

Just look at how amazing and utterly beautiful the graphics in the single player campaign of Halo 4 are. And they're being pulled off on a platform less powerful than the Wii U, PS3 and of course the PC.

There will be drop dead gorgeous games on the Wii U in the years to come. They might not be as impressive as what's gonna be done on the other two 8th generation consoles, but still they will look great enough to immerse you in whatever worlds game developers design for the Wii U.
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Starfox17  +   522d ago
It's been official in my eyes that the wiiu gpu is a modified E6760 from the moment both IGN and NEOGAF emailed AMD and got this response.

http://www.ign.com/boards/t...

sorry guys but even digital foundry said themselves 30% of wiiu gpu is unknown ? plus the 550 mhz is just 50mhz shaved off the E6760 simple,what it doesn't say is the EDRAM is alot faster than GDDR5 ect alot alot faster.

E6760 scores a higher vantage score than the HD4850 and with less power ? look it up the HD 4850 runs at 1.1 terraflops the E6760 576 gigaflops,so terraflops mean nothing.

Basically a very Memory Heavy chip design,as well as all the modern architecture for todays standards makes the WIIU NEXTGEN end of memory is what developers wanted most.
#1.12 (Edited 522d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
claudettewebb73   522d ago | Spam
Ezz2013  +   523d ago
the GPU is more powerful than 360/ps3..not by much
but is bottlenecked by the CPU
if that's what i'm reading
which i worse than xbox360 CPU and not even close to ps3 CPU

so we can now finally rule out any next-gen pretensions for the Wii U
#2 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(52) | Disagree(18) | Report | Reply
a_adji  +   523d ago
Although I won all the systems to date I actually enjoy the Wii U and it gets the most play right now.

What exactly is next gen these days? be careful what you wish for with graphics because it will cost you £££££ big time.

Personally, I don't even understand those figures but I love the experience right now.
kayoss  +   523d ago
you need to remember something. Cost wont be much of an issue with the PS4 or the nextbox why? because in technology standards... what we will be seeing in the Next gen will be old tech. Old tech means the cost will be dramatically lower then if they were using new technology. You look at current gaming PC, they have the most high end and up to date technology and the cost of a gaming PC is near $1000. Next gen sony and microsoft is doing the smart move and doing a low production cost consoles.
MasterCornholio  +   523d ago
"What exactly is next gen these days? be careful what you wish for with graphics because it will cost you £££££ big time. "

Not really just subtract the tablet controller and add that money to the actual hardware of the console and you could get much better results.

I expect the PS4 and the 720 to be around 399€ at launch.
vulcanproject  +   523d ago
Well....can't say I didn't always say so lol. I said for a long time even before the launch clearly it is not very much faster than 360 and PS3, and after made it very clear that the GPU was only slightly quicker AT BEST than Xenos in Xbox 360.

It is almost certainly slower than a desktop Radeon 4650 because of having half the TMU's and reduced clockspeeds as well as seemingly less usable memory bandwidth.

I banged on about the TDP of the machine pointing out the absolute certainty it cannot be much faster than PS3/360, it was just impossible with such a low design power consumption with current known technology.

The GPU is perfectly competitive to RSX and Xenos, but nothing mind blowing that could make up for CPU deficiences so easily as some people have claimed.

Consider that even a Radeon 7670 touted to potentially be in the next Xbox would be at least twice as fast. If Orbis is anything like 2 teraflops, that would be roughly 5 times faster conservatively.

Nintendo don't care, people buying it don't care which is fine. It is just good to see the maximum capabilities a bit better defined.
#2.2 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(24) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
miyamoto  +   523d ago
Nice analysis...puzzle solved.thanks

everything has fallen into place

from software drought, HD remasters fillers, third party collaborations, first party developer unification & integration... Ninty has a lot of homework to do.

"Nintendo's in-house development teams are only now coming to terms with what it takes to create software in high definition, and we can expect future release to be more visually advanced that what has already come, president Satoru Iwata has told investors.

"I may add that each game console has its own unique qualities, and developers must go through a trial and error phase to acquire the knack of taking full advantage of them," said Iwata. "This time does not come until a final version of the hardware and development tools for the version have been made available and then a base for software development has been established.

"For Wii U, such a time finally came in the latter half of last year. In this sense, we could not avoid the trial and error stage to create games which take full advantage of the hardware. I think that this is true for third-party software developers as well as Nintendo's. The home consoles of other companies are six or seven years old and software developers have sufficiently studied them and know how to take full advantage of them well. As Wii U is new to them, some developers have already acquired the knack and made good use of its features and others have not.

"You might see this gap among the games that are currently available. However, we are not much concerned about this problem because time will eventually solve it. Actually, we believe that our in-house development teams have almost reached the next stage."

Iwata added that "it is not true that we are deadlocked with a lot of trouble in our development. Otherwise, we could not aim for 100 billion yen or more in operating profit for the next fiscal year".

Shigeru Miyamoto added: "We already went through this initial learning phase and are now tackling how to take full advantage of high-definition graphics. In this sense, retraining our developers used to be a great hurdle."

The Mario creator also revealed that Nintendo's inexperience with high definition development is one of the reasons the platform holder has chosen to partner with external studios more versed in the art.

"The other point is that many of our third-party software developers have been dedicated to technologies like shaders. As Wii U is designed to bring out their real strengths, there have recently been more cases where we develop something with their help," said Miyamoto. "It has been more convenient for us to work together with them because they have been able to more smoothly utilize their know-how for development for Wii U."

They had no choice but to launch Wii U before PS4 and capitalize on multi-platform games that can be ported on PS3/360 for the next 1-2 years
and top developers like ND mastered & maxed the PS3 for 7-8 years....so....

Good Luck Nintendo.
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Zhipp  +   523d ago
I highly doubt that Nintendo would put a CPU in their system that would bottleneck their GPU. I wouldn't even do that with my own PC, and I'm not putting hundreds of millions of dollars on the line like they are. We're still missing something. Do we have the die shot of the CPU yet? That might answer a few more questions.
Computersaysno  +   523d ago
The cpu is miniscule. Nintendo said that the machine is heavily GPU biased themselves.

It isnt about development cost it is about manufacturing cost. The small central processor is cheap to make.

The cpu in your pc is many times larger, faster and of course more expensive to make.
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profgerbik  +   523d ago
Not like I ever needed someone else to tell me this. Hell I could've written that article but no I am just a troll for pointing out the obvious months in advance.
Starfox17  +   522d ago
Its about 5x the power of the ps3 ect.
DivineAssault  +   523d ago
i knew it wasnt going to be able to compete nx gen.. Doesnt matter cuz the games will still look decent in HD.. It not being able to run full 3D games in native 1080p is disappointing but ive been playing em like that this entire gen so i can handle it from em...

1st party games only again is prolly how itl play out with a few good 3rd party gems here n there..

& decrypt ^^^ wii u only sold around 2.5 million
#3 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(16) | Disagree(9) | Report | Reply
Starfox17  +   522d ago
The wiiu can do HD/3D chill out.
r21  +   523d ago
Interesting. So it'll be like the PS3 and Xbox 360 then.
ThaBlackBaron  +   523d ago | Well said
jesus the stupidity of these so-called journalist! So u refer the WiiU GPU to a PC GPU , even thou its a HIGHLY CUSTOMIZED CHIP and u dont know what 30% of the chip does? LOL

And what makes this even more funny is that WiiU has games that look better that of 360/PS3 at launch, and just recently showed games that are beyond PS360(Monolith Trailer)

Then Nintendo just released statements about Wii U visuals, and has said that their devs have now seen the "Next Stage" of visuals on Wii U after working with the hardware
stragomccloud  +   523d ago
Agreed. How can people take this seriously when the analyst admits he doesn't understand what 30% of the chip does. That is a pretty high unknown factor.
vulcanproject  +   523d ago | Intelligent
Its not stupidity. It is pure logic. I had it worked out as soon as the TDP was confirmed and the size of the die/process technology was known.

I pointed out the GPU logic itself couldn't be very big (i.e fast) because and I quite clearly said before that 32mb of eDRAM on the same die as the GPU will take up a huge amount of die space, leaving not that much for a particularly fast GPU.

If you look at the shot of the die http://images.nintendolife.... and see the cyan(read light blue) box as eDRAM, see how much space it takes up on the die! Its probably just shy of a third of the chip's entire area. It is just dumb memory for fast access, it does no processing like transistors used for logic which really determine the maximal performance.

Embedded memory is ridiculously easy to spot on a die shot, because it is just basic blocks of transistors like cache on a CPU. It is unmistakable.

http://www.legitreviews.com... Try this? These are CPUs, but guess where the embedded memory (cache) is on the die shots? Not exactly rocket science....

We know about the size of the die (about 155mm squared), and we know now (from that shot) that something like a 3rd of it is just eDRAM, besides the other sections there that are clearly extra embedded memory.

Therefore even if we can't precisely identify some sections of the chip, it doesn't matter. Because a GPU based on only 2/3 the size of the known die is not going to be very fast, it just isn't big enough!
#5.2 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(32) | Disagree(12) | Report | Reply
ABizzel1  +   523d ago
The ignorant don't understand logic. It's a concept they'll never grasp.
kayoss  +   523d ago
Best explanation so far... totally agree.
scissor_runner  +   523d ago
True the thermo is really low. Yet ram on the die is not going to have the same heat foot print as chip logic. Oops sorry got to go. It's going to be fun talking tech this gen. Get ready to dig deep!
ThaBlackBaron  +   523d ago
Your basing this off the assumption that the chip is based off a Radeon 4650, which the article states is " A Very Close Match" to the WiiU based off of its Core features :
"The Wii U GPU core features 320 stream processors married up with 16 texture mapping units and featuring 8 ROPs."...but that also points to almost an EXACT match to the Radeon 5550, which has the SAME clockspeed as the Wii U 550mhz and has DDR3 memory! http://www.amd.com/US/PRODU...

Based on all the "FACTS" that we know about the WiiU, and the statements from Nintendo and other Devs, it all points to the GPU being a customized radeon 5550
vulcanproject  +   523d ago
@ThaBlackBaron

It doesn't actually matter hugely which it is based off, my point was only revolving around its die size and process technology as we know.

The Radeon 5550 is in many ways 'based' off the previous Radeon 4k series architecture, the stream cores are virtually the same- 5 way VLIW architecture. Evergreen was an evolution of the previous R700 design, not some quantum shift (unlike the 'Cayman' 69xx series). It is well known that the 5550 core is not really much faster than a 4650 core (much of it can be attributed to the widening of the memory bus), so its hardly a big deal which you might believe it to be.

It was as I said, mostly irrelevant to my point that there is very limited die space for the GPU logic because of the amount of embedded memory included.

This really limits how fast the GPU can possibly be. Whether it is precisely based off Evergreen or slightly older architecture (indications is it is an R700 with tweaks) matters not, you can only get so much performance from such a relatively small die space.

There is a fairly well defined limit here, this is a small GPU with relatively low clockspeeds on maybe 100mm squared of silicon (155mm minus all that space taken by embedded 'dumb' memory not incorporated in most GPU designs) if you estimate generously.

On the exact same process a Radeon 5870 is over 3 times as large with hugely superior clockspeeds and no doubt memory bandwidth, so obviously, much much faster for it.

My point was then obvious looking at it, there is not enough space for a powerhouse GPU. I figured that fairly quickly lol
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delboy  +   523d ago
And what about DSP?
I mean all the tech people on gaf knowing tech stuff, don't know that every N console had/has a separate DSP unit.
And you don't need to be a scientists to know shit like that, but still?
People just love to bash Nintendo, it's cool and trendy these days.
What the heck did people expect anyway from wiiu, to have secret wizards jizz like xbox720 :-)

WiiU is ok, still more powerful than current generation, and will have some great looking games.
Or is now everyone unsatisfied with visuals like The last of Us?!
I'm not, and I can't wait to play a open world Zelda with better visuals then ever possible on ps360.
jetlian  +   523d ago
Doesnt matter the wiiu is stronger than ps360! 360 only has 10 mb edram and it makes a difference when it comes to texture quality.

I personally think cpu wont be a factor going forward. The polygon race is over. You dont need 1 million polygons to make a character. Texture is where its at. And that is more in line with ram and gpu performance.

With 1 gig ram and 32mb edram the gfx will be higher than ps360 no matter what you think of its cpu or gpu
Bltby38  +   523d ago
(This is from the NeoGAF thread and thought it should be posted here also.)
Some comments from Chipwork's Jim Morrison (ie a professional who analyses photos like this for a living):
----------------------------- -------
Originally Posted by Jim Morrison, Chipworks:
Been reading some of the comments on your thread and have a few of my own to use as you wish.

1. This GPU is custom.
2. If it was based on ATI/AMD or a Radeon-like design, the chip would carry die marks to reflect that. Everybody has to recognize the licensing. It has none. Only Renesas name which is a former unit of NEC.
3. This chip is fabricated in a 40 nm advanced CMOS process at TSMC and is not low tech
4. For reference sake, the Apple A6 is fabricated in a 32 nm CMOS process and is also designed from scratch. It’s manufacturing costs, in volumes of 100k or more, about $26 - $30 a pop. Over 16 months degrade to about $15 each
a. Wii U only represents like 30M units per annum vs iPhone which is more like 100M units per annum. Put things in perspective.
5. This Wii U GPU costs more than that by about $20-$40 bucks each making it a very expensive piece of kit. Combine that with the IBM CPU and the Flash chip all on the same package and this whole thing is closer to $100 a piece when you add it all up
6. The Wii U main processor package is a very impressive piece of hardware when its said and done.

Trust me on this. It may not have water cooling and heat sinks the size of a brownie, but its one slick piece of silicon. eDRAM is not cheap to make. That is why not everybody does it. Cause its so dam expensive
----------------------------- ------
mason2005  +   523d ago
What's this? So 7th ran your ass out of the community and destroyed your N-Dub nation so now you're reduced to failtrolling on N4G? Did you even read the article? Moron.
ABizzel1  +   523d ago
It doesn't matter if they don't know what 30% of the GPU does, because the performance increase isn't going to be much of an improvement regardless of what it is.

Even if they somehow managed to shrink down another 4650 / 4670 GPU to do crossfire it would gain a theoretical 90% boost in performance, but when it comes to actual games it'll gain something closer to a 50% boost in performance via crossfire.

On top of that the CPU is a huge bottleneck even if it was more powerful.

Seeing how there's no way that's it, they know to expect bare minimal performance boost from whatever the remaining 30% of the GPU hides. If you don't know how technology works then you shouldn't be commenting on articles like these.
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Theyellowflash30  +   522d ago
How much is 'not much of an improvement'?
shackdaddy  +   523d ago
I saw this on gaf yesterday. Since it's customized specifically for Nintendo's system, there's still a ton they don't know. It would be ridiculous to come to a solid conclusion based on the information taken from just looking at the dye...
#6 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(15) | Disagree(10) | Report | Reply
skyrimer  +   523d ago
To put it simple terms, no matter how much I tweak my Honda Civic, it will never be a Ferrari.
stragomccloud  +   523d ago
I don't think that particular comparison works here. The guy even admitted that he doesn't know what 30% of the chip is for. You really can't just look at something and then call it a day.
ABizzel1  +   523d ago
@stragomccloud

It doesn't matter if they don't know what 30% of the GPU does, because the performance increase isn't going to be much of an improvement regardless of what it is.

It's too small of a space to be another 4650 / 4670 for crossfire and even if it was the boost would be around a 50% improvement (higher in some cases), which still wouldn't be enough to compete with low end PC's of today.

Especially considering the CPU.
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delboy  +   523d ago
No Ferrari, but faster than your old Civic;-)
And by old Civic I mean old ps360
scissor_runner  +   523d ago
You have a very valid point here. Civic are not going to go that far when trying to catch up to a ferrari. Yet I like the aventador my self. Yet the other two consoles will be civics also since they all use gpgpus. They all have sub par gpus. The exotic car of gaming is still the pc. Maxing out to 2gigs, 8 i7 cores solid state drives, if only you could see what can be done with such hardware. Please don't refer to the xbox720 and ps4 as exotic cars when pcs and even an nvidia handle is more powerful.

I understand you are excited that is fine but please talk about what you know. Too much hype kills also.
pennywhyz  +   523d ago
These articles suck.And the PS4 and 720 are not next gen compared to a PC.And thats the way it is wii u owners suck it up and ps4 and 720 fanboys suck it up. Its a big wheel that goes round and round. All about the games.
#7 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(18) | Report | Reply
zebramocha  +   523d ago
Yes they are,their GPU's are based off of current technologies by amd.
ElectricKaibutsu  +   523d ago
Jeez, finally that debate is over. Now we can move on from "Wii U is weaker than 360."
LOL_WUT  +   523d ago
Going by your disagrees it looks like the fanboys don't want to leave that topic just yet. Lets face it people the Wii U is a current-gen console lets try not to spin it any longer. ;)
Killzoner99  +   523d ago
LOL , Next gen? The PS3 is more powerful !!! "Orbis is in a completely different league" The PS4 is going to bury this thing. I almost feel sorry for the WiiU.
herbs  +   523d ago
Why is there always these fanboy's still claiming the Wii U is weaker than a PS3? It's now a fact that at worst the Wii U's GPU is 1.5X more powerful than that of the 360s and guess what the 360s GPU has an edge over the PS3s - fact. Sure the Wii U may have a slightly worse Cpu but when you also consider it has double the Ram and is a far more efficient design the answer should become obvious, unless of course your a fanatical fanboy.
Nodoze  +   523d ago
This is another example of Nintendo's conservative nature biting them in the ass. If this had been released 5 years ago (and they easily could have done it) then it would have fit perfectly into the current generation. This would have offered a true 3rd option for this gen.

If Nintendo hopes to sway 'hardcore' gamers (the strategy that failed miserably for them with the Gamecube) then they are well and truly screwed.

While we buy Nintendo platforms for Nintendo games, they need 3rd party to stay alive and to be relevant.

I think Nintendo knows they are screwed which is why they rushed the launch and HAD to release the WiiU this past holiday. They know they don't stand a chance against next gen offerings.

I really wish they would stop being so conservative.
TongkatAli  +   523d ago
I don't think Nintendo has the money to go all out on a console, there is too much risk. Nintendo is a gaming company and has nothing else to fall back on.

Edit: I wouldn't worry about the competetion going anywhere. Sony and MS are going to be in gaming for a long time, these debates won't be ending for a real long time................ : / fun
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stragomccloud  +   523d ago
At least their games division is profitable though. Sometimes I worry about the competition.
Theyellowflash30  +   523d ago
Nintendo always stands a chance. Lets judge the system based on its games. Not tech specs.
delboy  +   523d ago
In other words
Go play your Hardware, I will enjoy N software :-)
TimeSkipLuffy  +   523d ago
When Sony releases PS5 & MS releases XBOX1080, Nintendo will release Wii Z with a slighlty better chip than PS4&XBOX720... XD

as long as they got Mario, Pokemon, Metroid, Zelda, etc. they will continue to survive XD
a_adji  +   523d ago
Sounds like what you all said about the PS3, PSP and Vita.

lol, silly rabbits.
stragomccloud  +   523d ago
I'm sorry, but you can't know everything based on just looking at a die. The only way to know is to have specs released, or benchmarks performed.

As an example, the ati(amd) 5000 series gpus actually have more transistors than the 6000 series gpus, yet the 6000 series are more powerful(smaller, cheaper, consume less power). If one was only looking at say a 5850 and comparing it to a 6850, one might draw the conclusion that the 5850 is the stronger. This is not the case.
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MarkusMcNugen  +   523d ago
Actually, in many cases the 5850 is "stronger". Check the link.

http://hexus.net/tech/revie...

Look at the comparison chart on wikipedia. One of the reasons for a smaller transistor count on Barts was the use of the Redwood memory controller which was smaller than on Cypress. Taking that into account, the transistor size is relative to the 5000 series.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...
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ZoyosJD  +   522d ago
By "looking" at the die you can determine transistor fabrication process size, frequency, cache sizes, number of cores, general architecture design, size of the die, voltage useage, etc. Which is far more than you'll ever get out of a hardware specs release from a game console company.

Still comparing this to similar PC hardware and what that PC would be capable of is a waste of time just because its a closed environment.
ps3_pwns  +   523d ago
for 350 dollars the wii u is not worth it especially with the games it current has released right now. I did not buy the wii u day one because I am waiting for pikmin 3, a 3d mario and smash bros. Also 350 is just to much to ask just to play nsmb u day 1.

Instead im saving that 350 dollars and when ps4 comes out I will put another 50 dollars with that 350 making 400 dollars and have the ps4 day one with a lot more next gen games as well as guaranteed big name multiplat titles.

Im still wondering why some who dont even have a x360, pc, or ps3 would skip over those console that are cheaper with better online and multiplats and have games like ni no kuni in order to pay premium 350 dollar price to play nsmb wii HD :/.

Control yourselfs and always think logicaly when making purchases. There is no reason to have a wii u right now. nintendo games are the only games you really dont need to play day one except smash bros. everything else is single player mostly and mario kart is just mariokart not really something you need to rush out and play.

Most people I know beat nsmbu played with nintendo land for a few minutes and are now going back to pc/ps3/x360 games like ni no kuni and multiplayer games. getting multiplayer games for the wii u at this point is the dumbest thign you can do as theres maybe 1000 people maximum in a game. use your brains people...
#14 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(12) | Disagree(11) | Report | Reply
deafdani  +   523d ago
You tell people to use their brains and wait until there are more games that actually make the Wii U a worthwhile purchase, yet in the same post you say you will get a PS4 day one. What, you think the PS4 will launch with new God of War, Uncharted, Gran Turismo and Infamous games all available on day one?

Logic much?
#14.1 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(17) | Disagree(8) | Report | Reply
1upgamer99  +   523d ago
Good luck getting a PS4 for $350 LOL. The BASIC PS3 was $499 and that was without a game.
pikey  +   523d ago
Maybe im too old, but when did the term "next generation" change its meaning from simply the next iteration of a companies console, to being based on what type of gpu and cpu a console has. For example, My father is from one generation, he has 3 children. One of those children grows up to be larger and faster than him, one is a little smaller and not as fast, the third is practically a twin. So, by a lot of people's reasoning, one kid is in the next generation after him, the other is in the same generation, and the third is a generation behind.

Its dumb arguments for the sake of arguing. The newest nintendo is nintendos next generation or iteration of its console, the next xbox is thiers, PS is thiers, and so on. Generation is a timing based word and i wonder when the Gaming definition of it changed. since game cube was more powerful than ps 2 was ps 2 not really the next gen for that gen and wii was less powerful than xbox360 and ps3, so wii was not in that generation but still in game cube generation while ps2 would have to be lumped somewhere between N64 and ps1 generation. Its all stupid.
skyrimer  +   523d ago
To continue with your weird example, for me PS3/xbox 360 would be normal twins, Nintendo WiiU would be your son that is faster, smarter, and then Xbox720/PS4 which are basically Chuck Norris.
Crystallis  +   523d ago
more like Bruce Lee, but I get your point.
stragomccloud  +   523d ago
I am surprised that someone disagreed with you.
But then again, it's popular with all the kids these days to hate on Nintendo. I fully believe that these kids really actually want to kill Nintendo, that's why they run all of these smear campaigns. They want Nintendo to fall and fall hard. They want Nintendo's console to be weak so they can legitimize their hate.

What happened to the gaming world!!!!????
I miss nes and snes. lol
skyrimer  +   523d ago
Quite ironic, since snes was the most powerful console of its time.
AWBrawler  +   523d ago
nope it was not. the powerhouse has never won a gen. The Genesis Was more powerful. i know, because I owned both and I played games like Beyond Oasis, Valis, and the early cutscenes having games on the genesis.
mamotte  +   523d ago | Well said
And here we go, back to the N4G's logic:

- X Console is not powerful, we want more power
> Then buy a PC
- Nah, it's true PC has all the power we want. But no. Because it's all about the games.
> Then power shouldn't matter.
- But we want power
> But...
- Enough! If I say -insert company game here- is bad, then it's bad-
> ...
- We want it cheap, too.
despair  +   523d ago
Your logic on the otherhand says that you can't have games and power in the same console which is what Nintendo has brainwashed/fooled its fans into thinking.

I want great games with great graphics and performace, is that so bad. I keep saying, Imagine the next Zelda game in a lush FULLY DETAILED world with high definition models and serious details for both the world and characters and keep the usually great combat and gameplay style and tell me that it won't be one of the greatest things ever. Think the E3 video they showed before the WiiU launch just even better (because even that didn't have as much detail and effects as some PS3 and Xbox games).
#17.1 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(9) | Report | Reply
mamotte  +   523d ago
...then buy a PC?
despair  +   523d ago
there are many games out on consoles that don't come to PC and how exactly do I get Zelda or Mario in HD on a PC...you've missed my entire point.

I want great nintendo titles with proper full hd resolution and high quality graphics and its clear the WiiU and Nintendo will not do that.
Kos-Mos  +   522d ago
Haha. Thanks for the laugh. People here are desperately trying to not be compared to this comment.
Spookshow  +   523d ago
Now Nintendo's gonna show you how power should be utilized.

:)
deafdani  +   523d ago
They always do. With ALL of their consoles, Nintendo has made games that use the hardware to great effect.

While I think the Wii U will probably be considerably weaker than the PS4 and Next Xbox, I also think Nintendo will blow my socks off with their next 3D Mario, Zelda and Metroid games. What they may lack in power, they will very likely make up for it in art direction, tight gameplay and a clever use of the resources available with the hardware at hand. Nintendo has always been pretty efficient at this.
Shok  +   523d ago
So basically in the end, we still know nothing. Judging by those photos, that thing is WAY too customized to do a raw number comparison.

Looks like another system where only Nintendo and dedicated 3rd parties will be able to exploit the full power of the system, cause that is NOT a normal GPU architecture.
Trago1337  +   523d ago
i'm suspecting that when the other consoles come out, the Wii U will be the low end base for development, and the PC will be the high end, since all three consoles will be using AMD GPU's.

But future multiplats remain to be seen.
#19.1 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Ck1x  +   523d ago
Not only was nothing proved at all. But these people really screw up their own math by saying the Wii puts out 24Gflops and Nintendo has stated publicly that the WiiU has approx, 21-22x the processing power of the Wii.=(504-528Gflops) Something doesn't add up there! Not to mention games like -X- and Platinum Games now confirming that the really detailed monster at the end of the Bayonetta 2 developer reel was in fact in game graphics...
MarkusMcNugen  +   523d ago
I just read the article and I saw no mention of GFLOPs anywhere. So I dont know where you pulled that 24GFLOPs spec from. Everything I have ever read has said the Wii could do about 16GLOPs.

Wii - 15.75 GFLOPs total, Broadway CPU: 2.85 GFLOPs + Hollywood GPU: 12.9 GFLOPs

If Nintendo did say the Wii U had 21-22x the processing power of the Wii that would be around 330GFLOPs. Which is right around the 360s 355GFLOPs.

Not that FLOPs are a good benchmark for real world performance.
#19.2.1 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(2) | Report
nintendoland  +   523d ago
honestly who cares what specs wii u has? My all time favorite console is gamecube or SNES. Games of those consoles are over 9000 times better than some BF3, COD, Crysis, CS, FC etc. Graphics don't make the game. My 3 years old computer is 3 times more powerful than Wii U but that doesn't make Wii U bad. Wii u is really shitty now but after Lego City, Smash Bros, Wind Waker HD etc it will be much more quality than generic ps4 will ever be.
superdupernintendo   523d ago | Spam
Ck1x  +   523d ago
I can't stop from laughing just reading the responses on here. People are so gullible I tell you! So someone tells you that from a photograph, he can determine exactly what's going on under the hood of the WiiU(even though 30% of the chip can't be guessed at because it's custom, or the purpose in most of the design.) And you guys take this as factual information! So now not only is the CPU horrible and slow, but the GPU is outdone by the 360&PS3 as well... So I guess the only thing to explain a game like X running on the WiiU, is Fairy Dust then! Lol
ABizzel1  +   523d ago
Have you every build a PC?

Do you follow PC tech?

Your answers clearly show you don't, because any PC enthusiast has known from the start (during the first breakdown) that the Wii-U is barely a step ahead of the current-gen.
Ck1x  +   523d ago
Wow boy are you barking up the wrong tree dude... See you are only knowledgeable of off the shelf PC components my friend. But I went to school Electronics/Robotics, so I do think that I know a thing or two myself and yes I've built my own computer from the ground up many times. But you still aren't getting the point here! You are boldly claiming that 30% of a custom GPU somehow doesn't matter. You have no clue as to what the base is for the design of the chip and furthermore how all of this interacts together. Still I'm stuck on the part of you saying that not knowing 30% of the chip is not a big deal! No one expected the WiiU to be outputting 1-2Tflops of power, but chips and design have come along way to achieve a respectable performance without sucking 130watts or more for great graphics.
ABizzel1  +   523d ago
And I come from a Computer Science background.

So as a fellow CS student, you honestly believe that there's a chance that that 30% of the unknown parts of the GPU are really going to make enough difference to where it powers the GPU to be 2x as powerful as the core components are.

Come on that's ludicrous. I know you're not saying that, but even implying that the 30% unknown could push the Wii-U even more is giving false hope to people who are obviously fanboys.

I'm not bashing the Wii-U at all, far from it. I've been one of the few support the Wii-U for taking a stand on getting back to core gaming, and even suspected that they we're only going to do just enough to pass the PS360. But they didn't.

"No one expected the WiiU to be outputting 1-2Tflops of power, but chips and design have come along way to achieve a respectable performance without sucking 130watts or more for great graphics."

I completely agree with you, and look back at my history, it's what I've been saying the entire time, and what I expected, and I was fine with that. The GPU could have been better, but it's fine enough with me. It's not a powerhouse, but it's the push Nintendo needed, and it's an improvement over the PS360. I applaud them on the GPU.

My gripe with the Wii-U is the CPU. This is where I have a problem with Nintendo, and it's also the reason the Wii-U is going to struggle with 3rd party support once again. This quote sums the Wii-U up so well after knowing it's specifics:

"We're still working on dev machines but there have definitely been some issues [in porting PS3/360 games]," our source said. "It's not actually a problem getting things up and running because the architecture is pretty conventional, but there are constraints with stuff like physics and AI processing because the hardware isn't quite as capable."

The same source concluded, bluntly: "I suppose you don't need sophisticated physics to make a Mario game."

That's the problem I have with the Wii-U. Having a solid GPU means nothing if they're going to keep using updated versions of the same CPU they used in the Gamecube back in 2000 (over 13 years ago, and also why isn't there Gamecube emulation on the Wii-U since it's the same CPU).

Ugh. This is too long and I used up my bubbles. PM.
#22.1.2 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(4) | Report
scissor_runner  +   523d ago
Being a CS major doesn't meant you are a chip engineer.

True the wiiu could have been stronger but I'm glad nintendo makes gaming affordable.

Tech wise you should know about the many conference that are going on this year about gpgpu computing. How the cache is set up is very important. So much is being ignored. Yet the other consoles are going to use very similar tech. My question to you is what hardware have you programmed on so far?

I'd suggest you learn more about arm CPUs and gpgpus as soon as you can. Most CS programs are behind the times except a few that actualy get new tech when it comes out.

Like I said tech is finally taking off again. It's time to dig deep!
Kaiou  +   523d ago
Isn't it weird that this information is coming out only weeks before the reveal of the next gen consoles ? i feel that either Microsoft or Sony is behind this so that we have a more "on paper" comparison !!! or is it just me ?
chadboban  +   523d ago
Well, still doesn't change my mind. Wii U and PS4 will be the consoles for me because I know they will have amazing exclusives. Will also have my PC for multiplats. Speaking as a guy who can go from PC to PS3 to Wii to 3DS all in a single day without having my eyes throw up (or whatever exaggeration people come up with) when I look at the my Wii and 3DS games, I know it won't bother me. Like always Nintendo will make the most out of their system.
1upgamer99  +   523d ago
Once again another article claiming to know the specs, but then in the article itself it says , we are not sure and it requires further analysis, blah blah blah. We all know (accept Akuma) it has more power than PS3 and no where near the power of PS4. Lets just say it has 15% more power than PS3. It still can pull off some really nice looking games. The last of us is great looking. I do disagree with this article saying that the ports do not look good. I traded BOPS2 in for my PS3 and picked up Wii U's (because of the gamepad) and it looks just a little bit better on Wii U, so does Trine, Ninja Gaiden, So really it is up to developers to take the time on the port, to get rid of the hiccups. It has nothing to do with the capability of Wii U.
lilbroRx  +   523d ago
I wonder how many people actually read the article and all of the "we don't know" comments from DF(without taken into account that 30% of the chip is still a unknown).

People see what they want to see.

I've been reading the actual Neogaf thread that this is all supposedly based on. It tails a completely different tale than what digital foundry is, and some of the people in it are actually slamming digital slammery for their rushed write up.

These two comments I saw from 2 different contributors stand out the most.

"[But you have to admit, it took you guys hours just to get where you are and you still don't know everything. Yet they make that article in less time and makes it seem like what they don't know about isn't important at all. Seem a little suspicious if you ask me.]

What they don't know gets in the way of making a click baiting headline, so they ignore it. They are gaming journalists after all. "
#26 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
FinalomegaS  +   523d ago
i love this comment:

madeinbeats 46 minutes ago
Why don't you, Digital Foundry, just admit you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. You know the same as us about the GPU, basically nothing because its such a custom chip. There is no way you have the abillity to get any worthy info from this image. NO WAY. This is a joke, you complete bunch of clowns. Learn how to calibrate your TV first before you start trying to offer your take on custom GPU designs.
madeinbeats

Matt
MegaLagann  +   523d ago
True, another quote from NeoGaf

"DF article really sounds sensationalist. Why do they come with their own private lose definition of "next-gen" ? Is there a clear barrier between what is next-gen and what isn't ? They avoided to talk about the components in the bottom right of the chip that we don't still know about, and don't think it can influence (greatly) the overall output of the console ?

That's really amateurish."
Yodagamer  +   523d ago
As usual it looks like i'll be buying both. I did with the wii and the ps3, nintendo and sony always seem to have something for me to play. What i don't get is why didn't the third parties say something, as far as i knew they had some say in the project. The actual analog sticks was one of them.
#27 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(0) | Report | Reply
SkullBlade169  +   523d ago
A Radeon HD 4000 based GPU? 2008 called, they want their GPU back.
lilbroRx  +   523d ago
There is another groups that are leaning towards it being based on the HD5550 as a lot of the components match.

Even though Digital Foundry rushed to get this article up, they are actually still uncertain about a lot of what is know. Also 30% of the chip is still completely unknown territory.
#28.1 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Qrphe  +   523d ago
Well, the HD 4670 was released on Sept. 2008. This card is more or less a rebranded HD 3870 released on Nov. 2007 (high end at the time). The Wii U is ahead of the PS360 by two years so it's more powerful no matter what anyone says but it's not wonder it can't do 1080p resolutions either.

I called this already, but I'm sure some games will run at said resolution (probably F-Zero and StarFox [if Nintendo has the decency of releasing more of these]).
lilbroRx  +   523d ago
A large chunk of the games on the console are in 1080p already. How did you come to the conclusion that it can't do 1080p when it already is?

Monster Hunter Tri = confirmed 1080p
Rayman Legends = confirmed 1080p
Toki Tori 2 = confirmed 1080p
Might Switch Force HD = confirmed 1080p
Transformers Prime = confirmed 1080p
Skylanders Giants = confirmed 1080p
Scribblenauts Unlimited = confirmed 1080p
Puddle = confirmed 1080p
Chasing Aurora = confirmed 1080p
The Cave = 1080p
Nano Assault Neo = confirmed 1080p
#29.1 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(8) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
Qrphe  +   523d ago
Do you honestly think Nano Assault Neo, Monster Hunter Tri or Rayman Legends use as many resources as the next Zelda, Metroid or Mario will?

Just because the PS3 can run Super Stardust HD, Monster Hunter Portable 3rd HD or Rayman Origins in 1080p doesn't mean TLoU of Beyond will.
7uff1  +   523d ago
If you want to play a game because of it's graphics, buy a good PC then, If choose a certain console because it's "more powerful", you are not a gamer, stop looking inside the console and look at the things it offers(like the games, services and gameplay, of course good graphics counts too, but barely 10% of what a console really is), you shouldn't care to much about the number of pixels on screen(I believe all consoles will be 1080p this gen) or jaw droping visuals. There's no Legend of Zelda in HD yet but still one of the best games ever. As we saw in "X"'s trailer Wii U really have a good potential, stop being childish and bashing Wii U. Should I remember you fanboys Wii U uses less than 50% of the power PS3 uses while providing even better graphics? Buy consoles because of it's games, if you want graphics, go play on PC.
SkullBlade169  +   523d ago
It better be more efficient than the PS3, it came out 6 years later.......
7uff1  +   523d ago
Well, it is, but will obviously be the weakest when Sony/MS announce their consoles, but it doesn't means Wii U won't be able to compete graphically with them. My point in the last comment is that the games don't need to have the best graphics to be amazing. I'm terrible with words, sorry.
FlyingFoxy  +   523d ago
graphics aint the only reason, one of my main reasons for owning a pc is games performance, if you have a good rig you will get 60+fps in practically all games.
profgerbik  +   523d ago
Everyone cares about graphics to an extent if you didn't you would not buy a new console to play new graphically improved IP's or remade franchises.

It's just a stupid excuse when people say they don't care about graphics if that was the case you wouldn't be buying a new consoles especially Wii U users, that is all I heard forever is how much more powerful the Wii U is when I always knew it wasn't really if at all more powerful. Too many Nintendo fans always said they didn't care about graphics but as soon as they got a console that had decent graphics I never stopped hearing about it which is ironic.

It is just a shame some people have to be so in denial about things, nothing wrong with caring about both hardware and graphics, as it is a standard in all new hardware. It just comes with the package.

It really isn't anything new anyway with Nintendo, very few times had they had the most powerful devices. So it shouldn't even bother Wii U fans if they truly didn't care about graphics why even defend them?

As as I said if one wasn't interested in better graphics and improved games due to better hardware they would not be buying new consoles.
#30.3 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
exfatal  +   523d ago
I upgraded from a wii to a wii u for the games such as gamplay, exploration, or to continue the series, not the graphics.. cause u know Nintendo stop supporting the Wii? dont be ignorant
#30.3.1 (Edited 523d ago ) | Agree(1) | Disagree(1) | Report
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