I think it's time that we all sat down and had a little talk about Xbox LIVE.
Until recently, I’d been an avid defender of Xbox LIVE, but the industry has changed so drastically within the last twelve months that I've been forced to admit that LIVE has become a smoldering rip-off.
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At least give everyone the ability to play online games without Gold now... C'mon, holding that feature hostage for money is just... Not cool... Sony manages to do this, and they're having financial issues. They could have stopped at any point and said, "we're going to charge for this now." Yet they didn't. Their conviction was held strong, and it really shows. To me as a customer, I'm happy to stick with them because they stuck it out and didn't gouge their consumers when it honestly (from a business stand-point) would have been good for them to do.
I really don't see how Microsoft will be able to justify the annual fee for Xbox Live next gen unless it drastically changes what it offers.
The thing is, for many of us, PSN is just a pain to use when gaming together with mates. Xbox Live is the sum of its parts; voice messages, cross game chat, the intuitiveness of the dashboard and features- going to PSN after using Xbox Live just seems so slow and cumbersome.
However, I expect Sony to get its act together when it comes to how PSN and XMB are designed from the ground up next gen. Couple that with Plus and Microsoft really are in the defensive when it comes to its online infrastructure.
Credt does go to MS though. They were the only ones that really pushed the online element of console gaming since the original Xbox whereas Sony were happy to just sit back and not really be proactive at all. PSN is strong now only because MS forced Sony's hand. Now its MS' turn but really, the service is still superior. Its just the value of its service that needs to be sorted out and that isn't a major thing to sort out.
However, this paying to play online thing won't last. Its looking like the PS4 will be announced before the 720, so Sony will set the tone for the next generation. Microsofts gunna have a tough time justifying that yearly Live fee when consumers get wind that you can game online for free on the PS4.
"PSN is strong now only because MS forced Sony's hand."
Right. If it wasn't for XBL, Sony would have never taken the online space seriously. I hope Microsoft provides that same competition this generation.
"when consumers get wind that you can game online for free on the PS4."
Consumers already know this with the PS3. But what will change is the fact that the PS4 will have much better social features than the PS3 which is the main advantage that the 360 has over its competitor. In the end when the PS4 offers all the same services for free as the 720 at the same or superior quality level how will 720 owners justify paying for online multiplayer, social features and cross game chat when the PS4 offers all that at no extra cost to the consumer?
If anyone is going to change their online policy its going to be Microsoft unless they know that future 720 owners are still willing to pay for free services.
@aiBreeze
"The features you pay for for gold is nothing short of robbery seeing how you can get a lot of the stuff free off your phone and PC."
Netlflix is one of the best examples of this. Seriously if its free on the PS3 why isnt it free on the 360?
Because the parasite said NO (Bioshock 2).
Theres a lot of misinformation out there. A lot of people, PS3 owners included, don't understand the value that services like PS Plus offer. Barely 10% of the people on my friendslist have are PS Plus members.
For me, the reason why I prefer XBL to PSN, not saying that PSN is bad, it just my personal preferences. I have more friends/cousins on XBL compare to PSN, therefore XBL would be more fun for me.
The way to communicate is a lot better, seeing as it's cross game chat and I find that it is overall easier than PSN, in terms of messaging/voice/chat etc.
Also by the fact that I only pay $12 - $30 a year for XBL. It is really low for me, seeing I hardly/occasionally buy games, I usually borrow games off friends/cousins.
Of course it would be nice for XBL to be free [multiplayer], and just have a premium service for stuff like TV etc.
For me it's a high chance that MS would pay XBL free for next gen, seeing as MS is the only one that charges for online play.
If not, then there is nothing wrong for trying to make a profit. Every business is trying to make profits anyway, in some way/form.
If they don't then yeah, they will have a tough competition. No matter what, there will be people that would suppose any service, regardless of being free or a premium service.
Overall, both online services are awesome, it is just people's own preferences and opinions. Obviously every consumer wants everything for free but in the real world nothing is free, so we all have to live with it.
the looming next gen is going to be fascinating to watch
Agree totally that many people are unaware of ps plus and then you witness their shock when they realise what a deal they can get. Sony need to find away to reach the masses about this great feature.
If it was, Linux would have been just as suitable for the general public as Windows is. Everything doable on Windows is doable in Linux!
My point here are two things:
a) software is not just about features, but ease of use is far more important. Make it easy to schedule and join a game with your friends for instance.
b) the community. Would you like to play with people that tend to care more about single player games? Friend lists with lots of friends that are inactive?
Bottom line, we will see what MS pulls out of their hat, but the same thing was said earlier in this generation. PSN is free, has been for some time now and feature wise they are relatively close. There is still a reason why people *still* choose to buy an Xbox 360 and Xbox Live Gold despite their being another option.
There is no question, a basic Xbox 360 + Gold cost as much as a PS3 to keep it in perspective.
It's not the hardware, it's not all the features, but it is the experience that consumers are buying.
All companies would do well to keep that in mind next generation! It's not about a particular area, because the console is now grown. They all have to keep it well rounded to succeed or else SteamBox will have a chance to succeed.
I don't have a problem with the quality of XBL,
I have a problem with them charging for it.
The PSN isn't as polished as XBL,
but It doesn't matter because the price is right.
PS Plus doesn't do much to enhance the PSN experience,
But you get games, which is why I bought a console in the first place, not to talk to friends.
I'm not paying $60 for another phone, thank you.
"But you get games, which is why I bought a console in the first place, not to talk to friends."
No, but some like to play socially and keep in touch with friends. Because you have a phone doesn't make it the ideal way to connect with multiple friends. In fact, I don't tend to give strangers that I just met online my phone number, but to each their own.
I guys on PS3, that is probably necessary. Heck, some of my friends use Skype with the PS3, because there is no party chat.
The 360 got in early and you made that investment and it was too late to change but this time its reset you get that chance..
Even if that were true its still not warrented to charge for access to stuff like Hulu+ Netflix and other online items we they are freely available on other platforms.
I love Xbox live I really do, playing with my friends hanging in the part chat shooting the shit is to me no different than hanging in the arcade, but MS needs to understand that more has to be done besides giving us 1-2% off of our purchases, and access to services most of us don't even want.
-Buy PS+ and stop complaining about XBL and the pricing. Honestly, if we got enough people to do this the price point would go away OR the value would increase when they started giving out free games.
There are millions and millions of people out there who don't realise XBL Gold for the rip-off it actually is, and will pay for what I already said. Eyes need to be opened, and by ignoring a relevant and important conversation piece, you're doing gamers and the industry itself no favours.
The thing though, is that before praising PS+ as the XBL killer, you would have to know why all these people are playing for Xbox live over PSN. You can not assume that be cause you prefer PSN, all XBLA users will have that same opinion. The only way for them to even consider PS+, is for them to experience it and come to that conclusion for themselves. That would mean that they would either have to be sick of paying $40-60 a year or just want to change from or add to 360 gaming selection.
In my case, I stop gaming on consoles after Turbo Grafix and came back when the Xbox was released. That experience has been so great that I have had no reason to move away from Xbox so far. 2 of my nephews who grew up with PS1 and had the 360 for a few years, have bought PS3 because of RRD and no longer use 360. But they also have no interest in paying for PS+ as they don't see how it would make their online experience any better. I and most of my friends on the other hand, have stayed with 360 because it is how he game. we just log on and play, no hassle. I love everything about the Xbox, from the controller to the support, XBL, the interface, Kinect, and the fact that M$ has the resources to keep pushing forward. I trust M$ to keep pushing and leading and keeping things interesting.
After all this chatter, M$ will charge next-gen, and will continue to grow. M$ will no doubt add features to XBL. They always do.
XBL Gold and PS+ are services which charge for entirely different things. Comparing them is not neccesary because they are not meant to be competitors to each other.
PS+ is a value-added service which provides "free" games and good discounts on software, along with a few other perks worth having. PS+ didn't come around to compete with Gold, it came around to offer a subscription based revenue stream that MS was enjoying with Gold.
Gold is a service that is required to get the most out of the games you have already purchased, or required to get the most out of the hardware that you already paid for (ie streaming services).
A better comparison would be between Gold and the free regular out-of-the-box PSN, as it is PSN where most of the features exist that are comparable to Gold.
The generation is about to take another turn, I'm not sticking with the cheaper system per say, I'm going with the one that doesn't charge me for needless shit. Have fun with your digital Dragonfire, I'll go play some PS+ games.
XBL is sooo much better isn't it lol..../s
I love how they constantly add great games to Xbox Live Arcade (one of the best things about Live) but they need to start offering free online play for silver members.
Wouldn't mind some kind of PS+ features for Gold subscribers either.
With Halo taking a change in direction and Gears of War judgement pretty much giving Gears fans the middle finger, Microsoft better have more than a few tricks up it's sleeve if it wants me to buy their next gen console.
Obviously not everybody plays the exclusives and sticks to FIFA/Madden etc.. so they would have to make some 3rd party deals too.
Its the net you people can't do nothing about it NOTHING at all others will continue to enjoy it.
Yeah, this is the second piece in a row. Its f**kin old people.
I for one am cash-scrapped atm, with about $15k debt, so I can get but few games day 1. Why would I pay for live *next-gen* when Sony's service will be identical, with the addition of PS+ if I need it (who can say no to ps+)??
I am not going to argue why people pay for xbl *this gen*, as they can't simply abandon their friends and library of games, but next-gen it is a no-brainer for me. I will not be paying for Live next-gen, although I'm still interested in some of the exclusives they have now and then. MS need to adapt or perish. They need to take a look at what everyone else is offering, or else people will surely abandon them.
It's important to acknowledge Microsoft's strategies which is to simply make as much money as they can at the detriment of the consumer. It's simply outrageous to force people to pay what is free elsewhere (and rightly so) - basic P2P and free services. It's nothing short of rip-off and only the most dedicated loyalists and the massively ignorant are defending that.
So I'll re-iterate again for those who only focus on a small part of the picture. The internet doesn't hate XBL, because XBL is an excellent service. The internet hates the fact that Microsoft are ripping its consumers off, and robbing them blind of real choice.
Yet, people don't really notice it because of the advanced features that Microsoft and its fans promote, as they mask the real truth behind what it is you're really paying for. There's just no defense for what they do, yet you see it from those who are too heavily invested both emotionally and financially to want to accept the truth.
@ optimus
There aren't 60 million XBL Gold subscribers dude.
Now i'll admit microsoft used to offer a lot for the money but now they seem to be taking away more features, especially with the newer games...i decided to go with the free membership for awhile and just realized i can't access the spartan ops in halo 4 without the gold membership, that's just not right.
The article mentioned not being able to do gesture controls with kinect which isn't really true since i'm on silver and can use it just fine (although i haven't tried everything). But for navigation and voice control it's still there.
As for the ps4 i would not be surprised if sony decided to charge for online access seeing as how it works for microsoft and is a major source of revenue for them...granted, they could compete by making their's cheaper, and i'm sure ps fanboys would be outraged but would pay regardless...like the xbox users do. :p
All that being said, there may be plenty of people that would pay regardless, as obviously they do with Live almost without question. If that's the case then I would only be able to shake my head, knowing that all the defensive attitudes and complete and utter acceptance of a antiquated practice on MS console was the reason why others now have to deal with something I find unacceptable in today's market.
Sony needs to do things that set them apart, not make them part of the crowd. They did that with PS+, and IMO it is one of the best digital subscription services available.
"Sorry guys but i dont think PSN will be free next gen"
with Sony having:
Ad revenue
PSN Game Sales revenue
Music service revenue
Movie service revenue
youtube service revenue for music/movie revenue
Playstation Home Premium Content revenue
Playstation Home Premium DLC Game revenue
Online Game Multiplayer DLC revenue for Retail Games!
And
PSN+
all those thing's provide "revenue"
running a service Like PSN and XBOX Live require a lot of revenue to make it so they can get Profit, but on the same token Xbox Live has nothing in its ONLINE revenue That is Like Playstation Home that also generates revenue for Microsoft.
Playstation Home for Sony is such a Profit generating revenue stream that Sony has added ever week! new content! that is not just once a month or every two weeks, no this is every single week every year to year for 4+ years now in a row.
This fact alone:
PlayStation Home is a good, profitable business, says Sony's Buser
Jul 2nd 2010
"With numbers like we have, it goes without saying that Home has been a huge success for our company, something that we have been very proud of." The numbers he's talking about look pretty decent on paper: there are over 100 games on the service, the average user session is about 70 minutes, there are over 50 unique spaces available and 14 million people have at least stepped foot in Home once. Not bad, but it's all about the context -- do people play those games? Do people explore those unique spaces? How many of those 14 million are actual active users?
http://www.joystiq.com/2010...
the A:
update with extra content every week since he stated that is Nice Answer! why would Sony continue if there was no revenue to do so?
Simple Answer is there is profitable revenue for Sony , as Much as XboxLive? Maybe or Maybe Not but there is Profit. there is more than getting the Most Profit out of your service for your consumer's like Having Happy Consumer install Base with the services you are offering.
Home must be doing very well or No one would buy the content!
http://www.destructoid.com/...
I have no problem with xbox fans saying it's worth it for cross game chat etc, but if they were that good why do M$ feel the need to take away your ability to go online, thats why people pay give the ability to go online for free and watch xbl subscriptions drop like a stone.
Make online free M$, no chance not while there are mugs willing to pay.
PSN+ only interests me because of the Instant Game Collection. It's starting to have less value now as I've either played the majority of the games they introduce, or I'm just not interested in them.
Live is obviously a necessity if you game online, but Microsoft need to step up next gen. They should have implemented their own Instant Game Collection on the 360, with the likes of Rare's older titles for starters.
The overflow of non-gaming related advertisements on the Xboxlive dashboard is a discrace to Xboxlive Gold members.
don't give me xbl is better crap, if you want to pay for xbl fine but you shouldn't have to pay M$ to access the internet.
Are you happy that youre paying for features that are FREE elsewhere?
Why do you have to pay to use all social networking apps, Netflix and even a web browser when PSN gets all of that for FREE?
You get advertisements on a paid service? WTF is that?
XBL is a con.
I was shocked to see that MS can charge up to a million dollars for a single targeted ad that runs for about a month on their service. Apparently their ad space is effective, otherwise they couldn't command that price, which is higher than your average non prime time TV show.
I haven't actually seen how the ads are served on Live, but it seems those that have it aren't bothered by them too much and they seem to not be all in your face like some websites force on you. I would hope if Sony goes this same route then they also aren't all over the place and in your face. Sony isn't likely to want to ignore possible revenue streams. Generally ads don't bother me as I understand why they exist. It's the the pushy ones that bother me.
MS will probably (hopefully) allow free access to MP and charge for other services ...like this 'Take over your living room' thing they keep touting....
Time will tell....as always ;)
Definitely in no rush to buy the Next Xbox, if PS4 has free online, it will definitely be my console of choice, as 99% of my favourite games are multiplats.
Back in 2005 I felt it was value for money.
Now, what with FREE online with Playstation, Wii U, and PC, I can't believe they get away with it.
And the adverts! XBL is an utter disgrace.
My gold runs out in May and I won't be renewing.
The only reason I chose 360 over PS3 is the pad. I hate the triggers on the PS3 control pad (my fingers slip off) and the analogue sticks are in the wrong place. Or at least it feels that way to me.
If I could have brought a Sony pad that looked and acted like the 360 pad I would have been off years ago.
I will NOT be buying a 720. I'm getting a PS4
1. Xbox Live should be free but its okay for Sony to charge for PSN+
2. I have been on Xbl for 10 years and rarely have I ever paid full price. I think that even today you can easily find it for 30-35 bucks. If you can afford 2-5 bucks a month for XBL maybe you should have another hobby.
3. PSN is good and I have no complaints. It serves its purpose. Hell I am downloading the DUST beta right now.
4. Sony and MS are in this business to make money. MS has found a way to make money off of something that probably should be free but guess what they are doing a good job with XBL.
5. I think that problem is going to be Sony trying to make people pay for something that has been free is going to be a problem. Don't be shocked if PS+ becomes the standard next gen. MS is making money hands over fist with XBL. Hell that maybe why they don't make exclusives because XBL is their exclusive that sells tens of millions copies a year.
Lets get out of this which one is better crap every single day!!
2. I can afford 2-5 bucks a month for the air I breathe. Doesn't mean I want to or SHOULD. It's not about being able to afford it. It's about whether or not you should have to pay for it.
3. Okay...
4. They're in the business of ENTERTAINMENT. This seems to have been forgotten, but IF YOU DON'T ENTERTAIN, YOU DON'T MAKE MONEY. We're not obligated to give them money. They have to EARN it; having a fee for online use is NOT earning it.
5. Won't happen. I have no proof of this, but it's entirely too good of a selling point for Sony to change it. PS+ can't be a standard, because it's an OPTION. People buy into it BECAUSE it's an option, and a damn good deal. If MS is making so much money on XBL subs, it should be no problem for them to put that money into a AAA game or two. But the fact that they make money from XBL doesn't excuse the fact that they SHOULDN'T be.
Whether one is better than the other is kinda a necessary thing to talk about, as much of their value is derived from what each offers over the other.
Thats $3 a month for excellent online gaming experience people.
Heck. you probably drop off your rented dvd/blu-ray late at least once a month.
But with Sony and Nintendo(Big question mark?) finally catching up or coming close with free online service. I do think MS has to think about that next gen.
@medman
I also was surprise and a little annoyed to see advertisements on Xbox live gold!!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mic...
Once every couple weeks some "journalist" comes on repeating the same arguements...
If you don't like Live go buy a PS3 and use the PSN.
You HAVE to have gold for Youtube.
You HAVE to have gold for the internet explorer.
Bought a Lovefilm sub? You also need gold to watch that.
Microsoft seem to like to charge for stuff that's free literally everywhere else.