Nintendo has released its results for this quarter.
only 2 months since the console launched not bad
Not at all. I think it was a world wide release too, right? If so, it's pretty impressive they were able to pull that off. I haven't been too impressed with the Wii U so far but Xenoblade 2 blew my mind. I don't even know if theres an RPG coming that I want more, maybe FFvs13 if it's not vaporware or headed to the next gen.
tell me how much the vita sold world wide in an 11month period? yea... Sony deems that a success. wiiu does in 2 months what vita cant #oldschoolsega
That includes launch amounts though its not gonna hit the 6 million by March originally forecasted by Nintendo. It's done okay but I still fell once next gen consoles are announced its gonna be in trouble. I think its why they announced so much last week.
Was 5.5 million but think that's been cut back down, still good when the economy isn't doing good and it's the highest priced console at the moment
@Gamer1982 It was 5.5 million (opps BIGTAMR posted before me) They lowered it to 4 million.
Don't want to sound too doom & gloom; but the Dreamcast (which had a great collection of core games & unique features), was released in a similar position between console generation. It sold great at first, hitting 500,000 sales in it's first two weeks, but peaked out at 10.6 million lifetime sales before it's cancellation... In this economy, with Sony & MS's next consoles on the horizon, the Wii U faces an uncertain future .
"In this economy, with Sony & MS's next consoles on the horizon, the Wii U faces an uncertain future."
There's this but also, nobody I know in the real world (by that I mean not on the net) seems to know that the Wii U is a new console. I told a few buddies a couple of weeks ago that I had picked it up for Christmas and most had not even heard of it while those that did thought it was just an add-on for the Wii. Maybe Nintendo could market it a bit better. A price drop would not change the fact that a lot of people don't even know that it exists.
@Johnydolls - WTF are you talking about ? Sega were in a really really really really bad situation financialy , Nintendo are not. Had Sega sold 150Million Gameegears and 100M Sega saturns before they made the dreamcast ? no. Please don't be stupid. Nintendo is a financial powerhouse right now , and they can more than afford the Wiiu to sell Gamecube Numbers , as long as they don't lose money from the whole thing nothing changes. Nobody can afford to bleed money out of the ass like Sony did with PS3 however. But Seriously , Nintendo is far far far from trouble right now. The Wii is still selling and making them money , The 3DS is starting to sell fast , and the Wiiu is selling faster than PS3 and 360 did at their launch. I think Wiiu Will do better once 720 and ps4 arrive , cus if they're expensive powerhouses people are gunna choose the Wiiu. Right now people are buying $150 360's instead of $300 Wiiu's . Simple. In short , Do not underestimate Nintendo and do not compare them to Sega as that's like comparing chalk and cheese.
I thought they announced games because their hadn't been any announce. I guess any attempt at doing anything whatsoever at anytime is now considered a desperate attempt, and an act done in "fear" of Sony and Microsoft. Just goes to show, that no matter what Nintendo does, its wrong as far as the gaming population at large is concerned.
The other 2 Nextgen consoles will fail miserably my guess is if WiiU is struggling so will the other 2,i also think WiiU would have sold at least 15 million units worldwide by the time the other 2 hit the market,that's going off themm hitting at year end if they leave it another year it will be impossible as WiiU will inevitably start selling bucket load come year end,i also know for a fact when Nintendo release Monster Hunter and Lego City in the UK consoles will fly off the shelves NFS MW Enhanced edition will help as well. In fact LegoCity will help Nintendo hit that 6 million by mid april and hit 1 million in the UK very quickly,as the Lego brand here in the UK is massive. Also all Nintendo have to do is show MarioKart HD then announce its coming to the UK in dec and that will make the WiiU trample on anything out there.
Kingofwiiu: Never once did I say that Nintendo as a parent company is in trouble, but rather the Wii U faces uncertain times. Because when sales forecasts are dramatically cut, you know the console is not hitting it's initial predictions. Which comes down to the aforementioned factors; consumers are harder pressed financially & are holding out to see what the competition have to offer before committing to new hardware. As to not comparing Nintendo to Sega; in the early 90's when the MegaDrive & Sonic were major names in the industry, few could have predicted their demise as console manufacturer only half a decade later. It could even happen to Nintendo, Sony or MS in a few years. The PS3, whilst still bizarrely considered a commercial failure by some gamers, still outsold the N64's lifetime sales at 2:1...and the GC nearly 4:1, so hardly the best example to use! That's not to say that the N64 (alongside the PS2) is one of the greatest consoles of all-time!
with all the hipsters playing games on iphones all the pc techies waiting for ouya and steam box all while gaming on the pc and the casuals converted to tablet gaming do you really think sony and Microsoft wont be in "trouble" as well wiiu will be at 7m Mill come December 2013 what does it matter how it performs in historically dry months feb-august, you think thats magically gonna change?
jony_dols, While the PS3 may have sold several times more than the GC did, it means very little since Nintendo made a profit on every single GC they sold. For the last decade, Sony has taken a loss more years than they have made a profit on their gaming division. So, while I don't think the PS3 is a commercial failure, it really is mostly a success due to the entertainment it's provided, and steps forward made for console gaming. Not the money it's made the company. As for the Sega comment. I think the point was that Sega was in a much weaker FINANCIAL position (there goes that money thing again - darn business) when they were forced out of the console business. Though personally I don't think that anyone will ever reproduce that string of failures again in gaming. Back then it felt like every week,, Sega was coming out with a new plug in for the Genesis, or a new console, or some sort of something or other to try and stop the bleeding but failed. Every console company going right now, is FAR from such a thing. Though I doubt it seriously that shareholders will allow Sony and MS to sell at a big loss again for any extended amount of time with their next consoles.
So far as it stands for Q3 only:
Nintendo - $450 million in profit (DS, 3DS, Wii, Wii U)
Microsoft - $596 million in profit (Xbox 360)
SONY - TBD
isnt those MS profit goes for all of their entertainment division and not just xbox 360?
The EDD has Windows Phone 8 and Skype besides Xbox 360. These products might have a huge potential, but are not the biggest moneymakers just yet. WinPhone could actually post a loss. So yeah, the 596 is for the whole EDD, but very mainly driven by the Xbox.
Hehehe, it's so funny, when EDD is down or doesn't post a profit Xbox 360 is said to be the main contributor and blamed round these here parts.
But when EDD posts mega profit everything else but xbox is given credit. Suddenly xbox business is no longer the main part of EDD.
What's even funnier is that NOBODY would ever admit that windows phone 8 is doing well until admitting it would mean xbox 360 isn't doing as well it is.
Hehehe, hypocrisy in action, I love it.
I mean are you people for real? You do realise that xbox live alone contributes $1 billion in revenue(not profit though) per year right?
Truth remains people, Microsoft profits in the games department are greater than Nintendo for the last quarter. SONY remains to be seen but holding one's breath for their victory is ill-advised
Lookey here http://redmondpost.com/2011... $8.176 billion revenue for entire EDD in 2011 and $8.107 billion of it came from Xbox business. My mathematics says only $69 million came from elsewhere.
That's 0.9% meaning EDD revenue is 99.1 % Xbox 360.
It seems I stand corrected
Nintendo - $450 million in profit (DS, 3DS, Wii, Wii U)
Microsoft - $530 million in profit (Xbox 360) shaved off $60 million which is 10% roughly instead of 6 million which would have been roughly 1%
SONY - TBD
I hope you guys can forgive my mistake there.
3ds is making buckets of cash 360 can't come close mate ???
Don't come here with facts, research and logic. People don't like that. :P
&Good_Guy_Jamal Very well said. unfortunately, logic is lost 90% of the time on N4g.
Even though the ps3 was a lot more expensive. Example: By March 31 2007 (3 days afetr European luanch) PS3 had SHIPPED 5 million. Which was considered failure even back then not compensating for the insane asking price. Why should Wii U be considered "not bad" even forgetting the overall growth of the console market. Besides that, people seem to think Playstation's loss of home console market share from one generation to the next is something to gloom about. How about what looks to be an outstanding loss of market share from Wii to WiiU by Nintendo. I'd like to ask why such an opposing view on two different console launches when both are similarly performing (like I said not even counting difference in price and market growth, which should favor Nintendo in this case). The ps3 arguably performed better when considering it wasn't available worldwide until 3 months - it sold VERY similarly in the same time frame - and it was deemed failure on arrival. I have complete faith the WiiU could turn it around similarly as well, but it will not regain the market share it enjoyed with the Wii. Oh yeah, DID I MENTION A PRICE DROP?? Do they expect me to pay 300+ for a upgraded 360 with a pad controller?! SOUURCE FOR SALES DATA: http://vgsales.wikia.com/wi... (further source on page) PS. I'm ready and waiting for your downvotes, fanboys of N4G.
you calling someone a fanboy hahaha and I thought mika and akuma etc were the morons @_@
Wow, I have no choice but to respect such an intelligent response to my original comment. I'm in a tough position to argue but, well, here goes... First of all I wasn't cheerleading for ps3 nor spelling doom for Nintendo. Simply pointing to the hypocrisy of fanboys. "The WiiU will win the generation" coming from Nintendo fans when it doesn't seem to be fairing any better than the early ps3 which was met with "lol Playstation is dead". Seems funny considering the WiiU can barely (BARELY) squeak by the Wii in sales numbers when Wii has seen the slippery slope for 3 years now. Also consider that sony's sales forecast in the period which led to 5 million shipped was *6 million* (only relevant time period I have since this is when the ps3 was officially available ww). Means the forecast was missed by 1m, horrible launch right? Nintendo's forecast was lowered (for the SECOND time - but for relevance we'll stick to the latest forecast) to 4 million from *5.5m*. Missed the mark by 1.5. To Rose Tinted Shaders this says: "Outstanding launch!" Is the WiiU dead? Of course not. Does it need a price cut? YES! Like I said earlier -- no way I'm paying 300$ for an ugraded 360 (and in some ways downgraded; UI i'm looking at you) with a pad controller.
Nintendo loses money on every Wii U sold. I doubt there will be a price cut until it's cheaper for them to produce. I can't speak for everyone but part of the reason some people say "not bad" to how the Wii U is selling is BECAUSE of the PS3. We experienced a similar phenomenon last gen and are less surprised this time. Also I don't think anyone actually thought the Wii U could replicate the Wii's success. I'm looking forward to seeing how the PS4 and 720 do. This will be an interesting generation.
@xursz I think it has to do with PS3 being made by Sony. PS2 demolished Dreamcast (in sales) so Dreamcast boss went to MS. MS's xbox was also demolished (in sales) by PS2 so these people grew themselves a grudge against Sony big time. Now with MS's headstart and arrogant PR people they finally found a chance to destroy Sony's PS3. That's why they've been so rabid. That's why they cannot find themself seeing that MS went for casuals and stopped getting them exclusive hc-games almost completely a few years back. That's why we have these claims that exclusives don't matter anymore or that this gen is over and such. They are way too cought up in their hate for anything Sony all they want is to see them in a bad light flip flopping from metacritic to sales to back to metacritic and finally to "exclusives don't matter" when ever it suits their agenda. I'm not saying PS3 fanboys are right. They are just as much to blame for all the BS in here but since I was here all those years and saw everything unfold before my own eyes there is no going around the fact that the entire console war regarding PS3 and x360 is/was caused by MS people. It was either the biased media or MS PR people or fanboys of this site who were always quick to judge doom on PS3 in every possible turn.
@insomnium Your approach to "fanboy wars" is very unique and i can see some truth in that. The media bias seems pretty skewed at some points where others get a free pass. For example, as I mentioned above, the WiiU's launch numbers are VERY similar if not wrse than ps3's, yet is deemed 'acceptable'. But this isn't really about that so, moving on. @ElectricKai Well then they should start considering it (insider tip: they already have) if they plan to be competitive. Imo it doesn't look good when your two largest competitors are consistently tearing you apart (for lack of more descriptive expression) in the sales department with old hardware which isn't much less expensive. To be fair we know the WiiU probably doesn't cost a lot more than 360/ps3 to manufacture not counting the Pad controller, so there is room to manuever. And if it means gaining market share there's no doubt it will happen.
They have to start making a profit on each Wii U before they have room to maneuver. http://arstechnica.com/gami... There probably will be a price cut but I bet they're going to wait to see if Rayman or the Wonderful 101 sells some consoles first. If not: price drop in the fall. You heard it here first.
insomnium2 wrote, "I think it has to do with PS3 being made by Sony. PS2 demolished Dreamcast (in sales) so Dreamcast boss went to MS. MS's xbox was also demolished (in sales) by PS2 so these people grew themselves a grudge against Sony big time." Who are 'these' people? What world do you live in where it's MS people, Sony people and Nintendo people? Can I ask you, if I walk down the street do they look different? Should I approach people at the bus stop and ask what kind of people they are? The reality is this, The PS2 dominated and both Nintendo and Microsoft have done much better creating parity this generation. That's it, end of story. The competitive market field has changed and Sony are no longer in control, nobody is. "Now with MS's headstart and arrogant PR people they finally found a chance to destroy Sony's PS3. That's why they've been so rabid. That's why they cannot find themself seeing that MS went for casuals and stopped getting them exclusive hc-games almost completely a few years back." Excuse me? Arrogant MS PR people? Funny how the whole gaming industry pointed to Sony, not Microsoft, about being arrogant coming into this generation. Going casual has also paid off for MS as Kinect has extended the life of the Xbox 360 and generated more fans. One you probably used to call FPS only fans. "That's why we have these claims that exclusives don't matter anymore or that this gen is over and such. They are way too cought up in their hate for anything Sony all they want is to see them in a bad light flip flopping from metacritic to sales to back to metacritic and finally to "exclusives don't matter" when ever it suits their agenda." Of course exclusives matter but they are not end all be all like you think they are. Sales suggest PS3 owners like both. In fact the best selling franchise on the PS3 happens to be a non-exclusive IP. The problem I see is you're way too wrapped up in this war between MS people and Sony people as you call them. There's a reality that exist outside of game forums and most people don't care about the war between the systems like you do. "I'm not saying PS3 fanboys are right. They are just as much to blame for all the BS in here but since I was here all those years and saw everything unfold before my own eyes there is no going around the fact that the entire console war regarding PS3 and x360 is/was caused by MS people. It was either the biased media or MS PR people or fanboys of this site who were always quick to judge doom on PS3 in every possible turn." No fanboy is taken seriously, that's why they are labeled fanboys. You're using way too many generalizations that makes it appear like you're still living in 2006.
Sorry mikemeyers. Accidently hit disagree. I agree with you.
Can we all just be honest the only reason 3ds is selling is because they cut a WOPPING 80 BUCKS!!!! of the price like 4 months 5 months after release... If vita did that they would sell out in 12 minutes lol
I agree, but it's a major reason. The price cut increased sales and thereby also cemented a ton of third-party support because Nintendo did just that. The Vita has been out a year and it is faltering and yet Sony won't cut the price of it or its very expensive memory cards to increase market share and win back third-party support. So, when you say "only" I say "wisely".
Then somebody better call Sony and tell them that's all they have to do to get Vita selling at 3ds numbers then...
No its actually really bad, they have plenty of hardware just sitting on stores, they were actually able to produce, but the bad news sales suck. WII-U its in big trouble, you dont drop forecast cause of sales ever unless you have it on market and is not moving, they have slow down production. WII-U its facing a serious challenge and onced the other 2 come out inmarket, you can say wii-u will be lucky to reach gamecube numbers. This is what we get when you are bringing last gen hardware and people become aware, thats what we get, people knowing what they what with wii and now they are waiting. Its going to be another repeat with the exception of sales, hardly any third party support, great first party and people going with the new. Sprry, but we can say itss premature, but the WII9U its dead compared with wii sales, the wii-u its a failure.
It's hard to judge whether it's a very bad sign or not that they lowered their predictions. Games sell consoles and Nintendo delayed all their big launch window games. If they had released their big games AND fell short of their forecasts it would have been definitely bad. Looks like we're going to have to wait for next quarter's numbers to see how they're really doing.
Agreed. If the 3DS launch told us anything, it's that Nintendo can bounce back. With the handheld, the resurgence can be pinpointed to the release of Mario Land and Mario Kart. If Nintendo can get some of these games out before the other consoles, then no questions asked, they'll be absolutely fine.
It wasn't about the games man. It was the price cut that helped the 3ds sell.
It's better that they're playing the long game; getting the titles where they need to be instead of pushing them out the door. That run seems to ruin a lot of launch titles that otherwise could have been pretty cool. Genji comes to mind.
Nintendo only "bounced back" after a 40% price cut and some crazy exclusive (for now) software like MH. Why do people always gloss over that fact? And now they're missing their 3DS targets because outside of Japan, interest just isn't that strong. The Wii U will never be another runaway hit like the Wii, and its safe to say the same about the 3DS next to the DS. Next quarters numbers will be low, the quarter after Xmas for every manufacturer always is, so I wouldn't expect much growth there. I'm not decrying doom btw. The profit margins on Nintendo hardware are always good and they have decent coffers accumulated over the years. I'm just trying to paint a realistic picture. I wouldn't expect too much from them this gen, its mostly a stopgap till they figure out what they want to do next (see: merging of console and portable divisions).
>>The Wii U will never be another runaway hit like the Wii I think it's also because of the price in comparsion with its rivals.
The 3DS at this point in time has sold more units in the US than the DS. Why the hell do people misremember that the DS was selling like gangbusters throughout it's lifecycle? It sold like crap for nearly two years, especially in the Americas and EU, and then finally picked up steam when the DS Lite was released. The 3DS may not be selling like it is in Japan, but don't be fooled into thinking it's selling poorly. Some weeks sales are average, others its above average, other times it sells really well (though still not comparable to Japan). The 3DS hasn't really sold like crap since the period between May-Aug of 2011.
AdvanceWarsSgt, the 3DS had its price almost halved in the first six months of its shelf life, followed by a public apology to early adopters. The DS was never the subject of such aggressive repricing so early or apologetically in its cycle. And Nintendo keep missing their targets for the 3DS or adjusting them down. That did not happen with the DS, they kept going over their quarterly targets. That means that they are overestimating demand for the 3DS - even after a massive product restructuring (price cut + new model). There is not other way to interpret that, but go ahead. Anyway, its wikipedia, but its as comprehensive as one can find: http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Its unrealistic to expect the 3DS to sell like the DS did, even Nintendo is admitting this in various ways. Also, in 2005, cellphones and tablets weren't a suitable alternative to playing anything worthwhile on a mobile device. Now they are. The entire landscape has changed from the DS era. Yes, the 3DS is tracking well, but trending DOWN. That is what happens when you slash so much off the MSRP. A move usually done incrementally, over time, not in the first six months. The sales that they would have gotten later, they are getting now. That's not good business and it only saturates the market and empties out consumer demand quicker and leaves little wiggle room for price adjustments later. What next? A $99 3DS? Where does Nintendo go from here to stimulate growth through price adjustment and still keep value - perceived and real - in the product? P.S. The not quite pop-up (can't be blocked, just scroll away from them) while typing adds recently added to the site are completely friggn' annoying.
bicfitness, I wholeheartedly agree that Nintendo overestimated that the demand they would see for the 3DS at $250 dollars. Consumers didn't see the value in the product, especially now with the increasing popularity of smartphones and tablets that, for only $100-$150 dollars more, could do everything the 3DS does and more. However, it's a bit early to say that at a lower price point that interest isn't there in the system, or that it has begun to saturate in the Americas, especially now that the library for the 3DS is much more attractive now than during the launch period. The only place where it is doing relatively poorly is really in EU, as even with the price drop + decent/good library sales are down across the board in that region. Also, you have to keep in mind that the DS was a gamble, and Nintendo themselves even admitted they didn't know how exactly it was going to perform in the market because it was so fundamentally different from the GB/GBC/GBA. Nintendo's sales forecasts were much more moderate then they were for the 3DS, which, as you said, was unrealistic to begin with because the 3DS is not the phenomenon that the DS was, nor isn't it unchallenged from smartphones/tablets. I'm not saying that Nintendo didn't fudge up their launch. The lack of compelling games during and after launch + it being overpriced certainly killed the momentum and hype that Nintendo had built at E3 and in the general public. It should have never been priced at $250 to begin with. Though I think that even if it had launched at it's current price point, it still wouldn't have reached Nintendo's expectations, but it most likely would have performed much better and a price-cut would have never been made. PS: Get AdBlock for your browser. It makes your internet experience 10x better.
They reduced it by 30% actually but whatever math you have to give to make your point seem valid I guess! Sales really started to increase with the reduced price and Zelda releasing for the 3ds and then Mario 3d land and MK7. If people believe that the 3ds is only selling because of the cheaper price. Then how come the 3dsXL is the model that's currently selling the most at $200?
cKX1 http://www.geek.com/article... 40% in Japan, which is the 3DS's largest market, because of currency exchanges and whatnot, it was closer to 30% in the US. So your information is incorrect. A Google search would have told you that. Can you provide data to show that the 3DS XL is selling at a higher ratio than the standard DS? All we have are Media Create figures (for one region), and as stated beforehand the hardware is cheaper in Japan - overall - than anywhere else in the world.
3DS losing interest? what's this fella smoking?
Wow, so lowering sales expectations is a good thing? really fanboyism can make you lose touch with the real world in serious ways.
When your sales expectations are ridiculous to begin with (seriously, Nintendo really thought that at $250 dollars the 3DS was going to sell exactly like the DS did at it's 3 yr. mark), then yes, being more moderate in your forecasts isn't conclusive of something "flopping" or doing poorly.
I see this one falling way behind the Wii sales, and i dont like speculating at all.
Shouldn't be too surprising. Wii launched at a cheaper price, in a stronger economy, motion control was novel and simple. Don't forget it had a new Zelda on release and Wii Sports out of the box, and who could say no to party games (at the time)?
Also the marketing for Wii was pretty extensive, the "Wii would like the play" adverts were made to hype you up, I haven't seen a single WiiU advert on T.V. yet (only store ads). Tbh a lot of people probably have no idea the WiiU exists or what it's supposed to be. Could use some public awareness
decent sales but when nintendo unleash the big guns i expect to see better numbers =)
I agree and Nintendo will be fine. You don't have to finish 1st in a gen or sell 100 million consoles to make money. Once we have games like Mario Kart, Zelda, Metroid ect sales will pick up even more for the WiiU and I think Sales for the Next xbox, PS4 and WiiU will be around about the same next gen.
The problem is that the big guns (zelda, mario etc) are at least a year away, and by then MS and Sony next gen consoles will be around, and things may get ugly for Nintendo by then, Zelda and Mario or not. Really, what was Nintendo thinking with their release schedule for the WiiU? It's hard to believe they don't have single big franchise out or coming in the next 6 months, this could cost them everything. And sorry, but 3ds out of Japan is going down fast, last Black Friday sales were 500k less than the year before, that's huge, and in EU 3ds sales are really low. As far as I can see, nowadays mobile games look on par with 3ds games and cost 10 times less, it's hard to justify bying games for 3ds.
what I don't understand is why people here think that the 720 & PS4 are going to sell in droves? just because a few fan boys here on n4g plan on buying them doesn't speak for the general public. Every system Nintendo creates will get the title of Dreamcast 2, because that's what you guys called the Wii as well! To think that a Nintendo system won't sell in the face of their competitors, when they have their big franchises on the scene is stupid and delusional at best...
I agree with the poor sales of the 3DS in EU, but where are you getting the idea that the 3DS is failing in America? It's about a mil or so off from what it's selling in Japan, and at this point has sold more than the DS did at this same point in it's lifespan.
There are a lot skepticism on the web around the wiiu, but somehow I think wiiu will end in first place leading in sales.
Not gonna happen without third party support. Plus they lost the casual audience they moved on to tablet and mobile games.
what about kinect then?
@ G-cis Kinect also took its decent share of motion controlled crowd. So now WiiU is in a diffenert market situation, than Wii was.
There getting the 3rd Party Support. You guys think 3rd party only means multiplatforms but they are getting 3rd party exclusive. *looks at rayman, W101, Bayonetta 2, Shin Megami Tensei X Fire Emblem*. I think the Wii U will get a lot of 3rd Party Exclusives and that will be the reason why to get 1. Plus Nintendo is really trying to get multiplatforms on their console also, so i have faith in them.
@Joegrine20 I think it's not accurate to call Bayonetta 2, SMT X FE and W101 3rd party exclusives, since they are published by Nintendo. Rayman on the other hand is clearly a great 3rd paty exclusive.
yes u can due to the fact that they get platinum games, ubisoft and atlus to make the games. so yes its 3rd party exclusives
Above nex-gen? Not this time. Last time Nintendo had the edge thanks to it being available to everybody. It was VERY casual. This time they want more hardcore and hardcore gamers want the best. Nintendo will rely on Nintendo fans for sales once nex-gen comes out and people hopefully picking one up as a second console. I havn't bought one because right now theres no games making me want to pick it up that I havn't got on my PC/PS3. Not saying it isn't gonna have decent sales just not Wii sales..