The verdict is in, folks, and it’s the same as it was last year: calling upset gamers ‘entitled’ is still a lazy substitute for an argument.
When supposed fans carry on the way some of the DMC fanbase did(ie death threats, hunger strikes, claiming you may attempt suicide, it goes on and on) you are acting like entitled whiny brat. If you dont want to appear that way, i dont know, perhaps you should change your ways. And if you dont act like that than you have been unfairly lumped into thier group because idiots are loud and attact attention. Lash out against those idiots with us instead of acting like the rest of the planet is being rediculous for calling it as they see it.
So the pro side is free to lump everyone with a legit concern in with the other aggressive and stupid crowd and can get away with it? Good to know. Edit: "Constructive criticism has been eclipsed by the noise of the mob." And whose fault was it? It's certainly not only one side's, I can tell you that much... as demonstrated by the regularly popping "you hate it because they changed his hair" comments. In the end, there is no need to act like everything that's been happening, including the misrepresentations of people with actual concerns, are the fault of people with actual concerns. Both sides are at fault here, and there is no need to sugarcoat it.
I'm not saying its right to lump all those people together with the ones acting out of line, however when the ones acting out of line make the most noise the general community is only going to see that side of it because thats what's in thier face.
Well said. Constructive criticism has been eclipsed by the noise of the mob. I just couldn't be bothered to sift through all the crying, immaturity and knee-jerk reactions prior to DMC's release. I'll judge the game on its own merits for myself. I liked the demo and I actually like the new Dante.
At least one guy got the ppoint of my comment.
@violents *holds hands* don't worry....you're not forever alone!
I agree to. It pretty much comes down to now I read no Constructive criticism about the game. Just theories on reviews scores, Capcom paid them off, Tameem is a douche, and etc. Lot of it has nothing to do with the actual game. Its got to the point someone that has a legitimate comment on why he hates it he is a whiner. Everyone is viewed under that category because of the small group that are considered whiners. Then it crossfires. The ones that like the game will complain about the whiners so at the end all this discussion board for DmC is for whineing^^ They will make some comments like its because of the hair because they know that will piss off the haters. They find it humorous on how but hurt they get when they mention that. So there is no Love.
What the hell are you talking about? We all know that those who sent death threats to NT, started hunger strikes and threatened suicide, are the "Vocal minority" and they do not speak for the core fanbase. Those of us with legitimate concerns were thrown in with the likes of them in an attempt to make moot our complaints and dislike for the reboot, it was all too convenient for the defenders of DmC too use the childish outbursts of the few to try to silence the legitimate concerns of the many, and it's still happening with every "It's the hair" or "DmC is 10/10 Haters gonna hate" articles, It completely undermines rational thought to throw everyone with a negative view toward DmC into the same group, and refuse to take notice of them because a few childish individuals got way too carried away and made everyone else look bad.
You know they are the minority however when all you see about the subject is the sensetionalist articles about that minority it shapes the general perception of the entire community. Im not saying its fair, that's just how it is. People have a mob mentality sometimes and I think that's why these "entitlement" issues get so overblown.
They may be the "vocal minority" but they are the ones making the most noise and molding the way the general public will view you. That is why anyone appearing to be of "anti-" crowd, regardless of their well-thought-out, constructive criticism, will be lumped in with the rest of the overreacting bunch. In this DmC situation, one would see at least 7-10 comments of people insulting and cursing devs and publishers before getting to that one comment where it's someone reasonably judging the game. If they are the minority, it sure as hell doesn't seem that way.
So basically, don't whine about the game, whine about the whiners so you don't look like a whiner? Here's a thought how about people like yourself stop validating the .00000001 percent.
If your refering to my opinion of how the general community acts in response to being constantly bombarded with articles talking of the sensetionalist things a few fans have done causing the general concensus of the community to disrespect and even refer to the DMC fans as "entitled whiners" as whining then yes.
I hate to say this, but I like the game. I just wish it wasn't called Devil May Cry. The game's story is very good. Visceral, fast paced, I don't find myself doing the same attacks because I tend to load-out skill points and experiment and go for S rank style points. Got it on PC, btw.
The problem is that there's no "with us." The gaming media, in general, has decided to call those with a problem "entitled." There ARE no legitimate reasons, because those with legitimate complaints are tossed right on in with the bad examples. What SHOULD be done is that these bad examples are ignored. What ACTUALLY happens is that the bad examples are the only ones taken note of, and the legit issues are ignored, instead. That's not how things should go, at all.
Sometimes we are and sometimes we're not. DMC is an example where theres a bit of both but honestly its a perfect example of how pathetic gamers (or people in the internet in general) are becoming. For example people attacking the metacritic review page of DMC are absolutely pathetic. You complain about reviewers giving it good scores that you dont agree with and your response is not to play the game but then give it an even more ridiculous score? But the fans do have a legitimate argument. You dont take a character people love and change him/her so drastically. Some of these characters mean a lot to people but when you do these changes and then effectively say to the fans "**** the character you know and love, we prefer our version" you really are ruining the franchise for its most dedicated supporters. I present the proof: https://www.youtube.com/wat... ... Seriously? You want to basically redesign the main character but make it clear that your trying to alienate at least 80% of the hardcore DMC fans? I played a few levels at a friends and its a good hack and slash and no where close to as bad fans claimed it would be. But at the same time the devs are trying ever so hard to make fans reject it that its laughable Capcom even gave the all clear signal for the game to release. The overall solution to this though? The devs of this game should have had more respect. I was siding with them before release but the amount of middle fingers they gave fans during the game was unbelievable. The community is DEFINITELY entitled to the original Dante and other characters which were ruined.
The fanbase should be upset, I own the first 3 and have the 4th unopened on PS3. It's nothing like the originals, but it's good, like I said above, I wish it wasn't called Devil May Cry, because I am a fan of the series, I'm just not as hardcore as the people condemning this new one; "DmC"
About time someone actually gets it. All these labels made to insult gamers are just dividing the community which companies use for profit. I think any game developer that uses this immature tactic doesn't even deserve to be reviewed. I miss when arguments used to arrive to a consensus for both parties to be happy.
This game has brought the worse out in everyone. Haha
Game developers making games for the masses, and catering towards fans is something that shouldn't happen. Games should be unique visions untrammelled by fan demands. Sure we pay for these games, but by our own volition (we don't have to buy them). And it's not like we have anything to do with the creative process. Any game that bends to fan's wills is crap, because fans don't understand the development process- aren't engaged in the creative process. A vision is much more potent than some superficial thing a fan demands. Gamers think they want novelty, but they actually want sameness. Observe for example how much copies CoD shifts every year, despite the beration it receives. Let developers make out-there games based on their own non fan-inhibited visions, and buy them if you want. Developers deferring to fans results more often than not in crappy games that are just done to appease fans who are afraid of novelty, and to earn a quick, shallow buck. Stop being lazy and let videogames branch out before they stagnate. The only time you're allowed to complain about videogames is when they're culturally toxic, which is my complaint about DmC. I actually think it's a fantastic LOOKING game, with a very interesting art direction (in terms of the environments). But at the same time, it's perpetuating this stupid, annoying cultural idea of making fundamentally camp and ludicrous things into super gravely serious things (The Dark Knight, The Amazing Spiderman, Man of Steel) and making protagonists into vapid Twilight heartthrobs. On this front I think complaining is warranted, and does not equate to entitlement, but concern for what's been transmitted into the culture.
Cod receives beration by the hardcore. Casuals vastly outnumber us.
Yes, some games have a unique vision and no, we don't take part in the creative process, yet the problem at least for me lies not in the hair, not in the design but in the gameplay, and that's something they should have respected. And if the vision is so important why are you complaining about batman, spiderman and superman's message? Shouldn't you respect their vision?
Games may be art however the issue is now they've become mainstreamed so they also bear the duality as a product. Though I will say it wasn't the demo that turned me off at DmC, the demo just more or less gave me closure on what has been the most debatable game among gamer's ever. No it was this quote Tameem gave, "Usually the worst creative crimes are made when you're trying to make a game for someone else - some perceived demographic that, in all likelihood, doesn't actually exist." If I were to go to any product designer and tell him this they would most likely give me a weird look and then reply, "Is that some kind of sick joke?" No matter what industry your in there will always be a perceived demographic you want to appeal your product to. And to say its a creative crime is ludicrous because by finding that hook to draw the userbase in towards your product is where innovation excels at, look at the Apple iPhone, dozens of other devices performed the same functions they just were just implemented poorly though Apple found a great way to interact with the product with a great UI which made their product a success and got them recognition from the mass media, their peers, and their competitors.
"Games should be unique visions untrammelled by fan demands. Sure we pay for these games, but by our own volition (we don't have to buy them). And it's not like we have anything to do with the creative process. Any game that bends to fan's wills is crap, because fans don't understand the development process- aren't engaged in the creative process. A vision is much more potent than some superficial thing a fan demands" You mean the vision that is "tainted" from the get go by publisher demand? A vision that will always come second to profit?
Megaplaynate: I regard those three films much like I do DmC culturally. I've already said this in the comment?? I think wanting more out of the gameplay is a sort of entitled attitude. They should have respected the spirit of the original games yes, but that's not the same as respecting the demands of gamers. Gamers should make suggestions, but not demands. It'd the developers' project. Whitefox: Ya see, you're too caught up in this idea that it's all about "products" and "consumers". Don't you realize how vacuous that is? You seem to prioritize all that stuff way too much. And how does finding a demographic encourage innovation? If it encourages innovation, it does so on an incremental level. It's just responding to consumers who want more of the same- are afraid of novelty. Think of how virtually the same each iteration of an Apple product is. Art isn't serious enough to think about the needs of others. It's become serious by virtue of it's co-option by the culture industry. It's become serious by virtue of it's understanding as a product, in which case profit and sales becomes prioritized. You've all forgotten what's actually important here, and that's people bringing their wildly original, individual ideas to life and sharing those experiences with everyone to enrich their lives.
It may be vacuous but that is the reality of an industrial world, this isn't the renaissance era. Just as I stated before the ideals of video games have changed since its now mainstreamed media. To answer your question on finding a demographic to make innovation its quite simply like this, I want to make an action game that appeals to not only action game players but also to fighting game players, so with the experience I've seen in most of the critically acclaimed action games I have to ask myself what can I do differently that they have already done? It's asking these questions that helps make a game in a genre stand out to the other titles its competing against. My father is an owner of a small business that designs kitchens, cabinets, and bathrooms and he always told me as a child and even now that his boss is his customer. If he went with the mentality to design his customer needs without their input and they didn't like the new kitchen with the granite stonework, and marble sinks then he would have wasted man hours, money and ultimately his customer would've been dissatisfied with his service where their satisfaction helps spread the word of his business, much akin to if a video game is good people talk about it the video game gets sold and the publisher makes money. "You've all forgotten what's actually important here, and that's people bringing their wildly original, individual ideas to life and sharing those experiences with everyone to enrich their lives." None of the gameplay ideas of DmC are original they are Ninja Theories own interpretation of the gameplay (each iteration of DMC 1-4 brought forth new gameplay mechanics).
you guys cry more than the haters themselves and the funny thing is that most of you don't even understand the complaints. =/
When it comes down to it, I don't think it's that pros don't understand the viewpoint of those that have legitimate concerns.It's the fact that there are those against the game that are a lot less rational and venomous. Like Tameem is a douche 100 percent, but my God you should go see the man's Twitter feed. You can find everything from disgusting racism, harassment and death threats on a day by day basis. These people are unfortunately much louder than some fans with legitimate concerns. N4G is a small place and from the outside looking in many "fans" come off as rabid and vicious. This is unfortunate.
While it is sad that some gamers have been labeled as fake DMC fans because they like dmc, it's just the same if the valid complaints from old DMC fans are ignored. I did not like the game, my brother defended the game, tried it didn't like it, yet we still respected our opinions, I'm glad there's people who love the game and if it ends up selling well I'm gonna be sad that there's not gonna be a classic DMC anymore, but that's just the way life is. Maybe they should have released it under a new name, maybe they shouldn't have changed so many things. Times change and we have to move on.
Dante's original hair is offered as a DLC. All is resolved!
It isn't because the hair wasn't the main complaint Oh I forgot though people like are ignorant and believe that's the only problem people had with the game ¬¬
No, it's not the hair. It's the gay face also.
No one is entitled to anything. Capcom owns the rights to the game, they pay money to develop it and therefore the only person entitled to anything is the one creating the thing. We all can voice opinions, but they "should" be based on facts. Not Dante's hair. Fact is that the new DmC is pretty awesome. Fact is no matter what people say you cannot take that away from them developers and publishers. fact is, if you don't like it then don't buy it, or even play it. Its simply not your style/taste. But boycotting games and death threats and all that silly shit for what?! Kickstarter is very popular now. feel you can do a better job? then make your own game. See how much effort and resources it takes THEN ask yourself if some anonymous voice on the web is "entitled" to demand anything from you.
"Fact is that the new DmC is pretty awesome." I wasn't aware that something like a videogame being "pretty awesome" can be considered a fact... "We all can voice opinions, but they "should" be based on facts. Not Dante's hair." Where were you when the demo was released and everyone was voicing their concerns regarding things that they have witnessed with their own eyes? I'm guessing you were too busy trying to be politically correct at some other, irrelevant place... "fact is, if you don't like it then don't buy it, or even play it. Its simply not your style/taste. " This isn't some spinoff/new IP that has no relation to a very well known and established franchise. It's a reboot of one that's loved by many people and they have more than enough right to voice their opinions by boycotting the game in many different ways... And no, this does not include sending death threats to the developers. But that crowd also doesn't include the one I'm talking about. "Kickstarter is very popular now. feel you can do a better job? then make your own game." So to at least have the right to criticize something we have to have absolute knowledge regarding how it's made down to every single detail and have to have the ability to make it ourselves? With that mentality, a huge majority of the game reviews can be considered invalid since people who review them are just simple journalists and not developers themselves... Or were you just simply trying to say that we shouldn't voice our negative opinions out of pity because of all the work developers put in the game? Jesus... I can't decide which one of them is worse...