Welcome and hello! Let me start this small write up with a statement: I think the outcry across the web over the upcoming game DMC is pathetic and is just another display of a first world problem.
There is no right or wrong answer for the argument here, there is just a conflict in opinion. A lot of original fans of DMC dislike the new art style, the more accessible gameplay and really plain don't like the new Dante's look or attitude. I understand that a lot of people are really looking forward to DmC and that's fine, I don't want to make those who like the game feel as if they are wrong for doing so, but for those of you who are just getting into the franchise with this reboot, try to understand that DmC is quite a step away in certain aspects from the type of game the franchise started out as, I know much has been said in reviews to the contrary of that but it simply isn't true. Now DmC may well turn out a good action game, but the reasons I think a lot of us enjoyed the past franchises are either lacking or vacant in the reboot, because of that its simply impossible for some of us to really accept it as a proper DMC game, but like I said Im sure many people will enjoy it regardless especially those of you who are just getting into the franchise. That said I hope some of you are a little more aware of the issues some fans have, and for those of you looking forward to DmC I hope it matches your expectations.
I totally agree with you! No matter what some of these people won't like it. The point of the article was just to encourage people to think of every new game as a unique experience. These games are made up of a lot of hard work and I would hate to see a great game fail just because of an overwhelming negative reception from "fans" This article will most likely have no affect anyways. I just always want to see this industry I love prosper!
I'm not a fan of the reboot but Im also not beyond understanding that some people like it. If this is the way the franchise ends up going then I can only hope the new fans have as much fun as I had playing the originals. Hopefully I can find something to fill the void but I'll always hope that DMC will return to form one day.
@thebrownbox: See, regardless of anything else you had to say in your article, you rendered your opinion completely null and void the very second you posted this... "I think the outcry across the web over the upcoming game DMC is pathetic and is just another display of a first world problem." No, alright, no. The "outcry" you've witnessed is a direct result of the treatment legitimately concerned fans had about this game being scoffed at by Ninja Theory and Capcom. They both treated fans with utter disrespect and told us "tough sh*t, we're making this for us, not you." So I say to you, based only on that part of your article, that we the fans are the reason sequels and franchises exist. Without our dollars, their would have been no Devil May Cry to reboot. And if you're the type of person that is against people using their voice to express their dissatisfaction over things like an unneeded and unnecessary reimagining of a franchise that still had plenty of story to be told, please stand aside and allow the money grubbing publishers and developers to sell you trash while the rest of us actually try to do anything to bring quality back to the industry. I'll have to use another bubble to get to your article.
"...please stand aside and allow the money grubbing publishers and developers to sell you trash while the rest of us actually try to do anything to bring quality back to the industry." Heh. Like that's ever going to happen. As long as sheep like the people who'll buy DmC just for the sake of contradicting people who hate it exists, it won't happen. Ever. People like that always love taking the actual point and bringing it to the; "this is a game that developers poured countless of hours into... why can't you respect that!?!". Or flat out dismissing every single logical complaint you have by branding you as a hater that loves jumping on a bandwagon. And it's blatantly obvious that the writer of this article is clueless like most of the DmC worshippers. Read the actual complaints. Think for yourself for one second before writing a long article regarding why people who hate the abortion that is DmC and all of their arguments are pathetic. It's always easy to brand anything that doesn't involve food and health as a "first world problem" to dismiss it right away...
In your second paragraph you talk about the Souls series as though it's the same as Devil May Cry. Granted you made a loose comparison but it's still flawed. The premise of the Souls series is not an engaging story, it's about one person against a harsh and lonely world. The second that changes is the second that the game loses the spirit that drew people to it. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your bend) the new directors don't seem to grasp this and have made statements like "accessibility" and "more direct" and even hinted at changing the combat. It's too early to say anything concrete, but the fans that made it possible for Dark Souls and Dark Souls 2 to exist have every right to be concerned that the game so near and dear to them could change in ways that take away from the core experience just to appeal to people who think it's too hard and can't use their imagination or sense of exploration and need a story thrown in their faces to enjoy a game. Sorry, but that doesn't sound like a good thing to any Souls series fan. Your third paragraph barely touches on the problem fans have with the gameplay. You conveniently skim over the actual concerns just to call people who have a problem with it pathetic. The combat is slower, easier, meant to draw in casual gamers at the expense of the fluidity and complexity of the old style. The enemy A.I. are stupid and take forever to finish their attack animations. There are already stories of people who got the game (thanks to broken street date releases) and have finished boss fights on Nephilim without taking any damage. Ninja Theory is not a quality developer. They haven't made a quality game. They made one decent first game that's below average for the genre, and one terrible game everyone puts down. They blame everyone but themselves for their failures and these are the kinds of developers you'd want taking a crack at your favourite franchises? BTW, I guess you've never heard of King's Field? Yeah, that's the series that the Souls series spawned from. Bayonetta is also a game that has jumped to a different console exclusively, a console that has a very mixed opinion among gamers so it's not exactly an easy thing to "follow" Kamiya around hoping for a true Devil May Cry experience in a different game with a different style and character and personality. As for the artstyle, being that you're not a fan of the Devil May Cry series, you aren't qualified to say anything to those who are about the artstyle so I won't bother touching on that.
Your next paragraph is another poorly thought out one. There are a few options for people to tell a developer they don't like where a game is headed. One of those ways, and the most effective, is with our wallets. This tells the developer "hey, we told you we didn't like it, you didn't listen, so why should we reward you with our money?" and is our responsibility as smart consumers to do so. Capcom made the arbitrary decision to reboot Devil May Cry because they got lazy with DMC4 and made it a repetitive game. Instead of listening to what fans were saying (i.e. give us Nero's origin story, make DMC5 less repetitive) they decided people didn't like Devil May Cry anymore and opted to reboot the whole thing and chose probably the worst developer possible. A developer that has NEVER gotten combat right and is a known crybaby studio. DMC4's greatest aspect was the fluid combat, the worst part of it was going through the same levels twice in opposite directions and with the same bosses. Change that for DMC5, keep the combat, and they'd have had a good game people would want to buy. Failing that, if Capcom wants to put DMC on hiatus it's because their ego won't allow them to actually listen to legitimate complaints and improve on them and instead make them feel like they can do no wrong. Your next paragraph is a continuation of the previous and still misses the point. Support is awarded for quality, not for basic attempt. It's the same with every single area of business. Give people what they want, they give you money. Give people what they don't want, they don't give you money. Change is good, but appropriate change is necessary. Find out what works and keep it and improve on it, find out what doesn't work and don't use it in the future. And above all else, don't disrespect the people who are responsible for your paycheck. And your final paragraph is a failed disclaimer. As the saying goes "don't start nothin' won't be nothin'." When a game tries to cash in on a franchises name, you're damned right it's going to be judged based on the franchise. If developers don't want that to happen, make it a spinoff or a new game. That's the basics of it and should be common sense. DmC is a terrible game. The fans have put it under every kind of microscope and evaluated it from head to toe. We KNOW it's a terrible game. If you want to throw away $60, throw it this way to be spent on GOOD games.
The game is GOOD...the immature fanboys who disliked this game before the demo came out were going to hate on the demo no matter how good it was. They already decided to hate it before anything was even known about it. The reviews arent lying ... I got the demo because i was curious about all the hate on the game, and the game is actually good. Kids will be kids tho, easier to keep hating on a game than admitting you were wrong and swallowing your pride. I for one will be purchasing it and enjoying it, the combat system is great, the demo was great, and the GAME will be great.
@Temporary Don't lump us all in with the typical "hater" crowd, we have legitimate reasons for disliking the game as Im sure you do for liking it. A "GOOD" game is entirely subjective, just because you enjoyed it does not make it "good", we can only base that off of majority rule and opinions are all over the place. In short you've rendered your argument moot.
The problem I have is that fans of dmc bash anyone's opinions down when they say something negative about the game but fans who don't like it don't bash their opinions down. To them it's like "I can have my opinion, but you can't have yours". I mean it's a commenting site, all opinions matter at the end of the day. It's not like people who don't like it are making crap up, we actually have legit reasons to why we hate the game. We actually have solid reasons, and even though we do dmc fans STILL like to make it seem like it's about the hair/design, it's immature to be honest, instead of challenging our points they just go with the ignorant response. Seriously though what's with all these defence articles lately, it's like in the past month leading up to release we've had a ton of them. Mostly the big sites that defended it have given it a good score so far...too strange in my opinion In my opinion the game is a step back for the franchise but this is why I don't understand the good reviews so far. If a franchise takes a step back then mark it down, a sequel or next instalment to a franchise like DMC is supposed to improve, take a step forward...not a step back. How can you say "Yeah good job guys" when they game is crap compared to the old ones.
DmC is both good and bad, it's bad to the fans that miss the original Dante, the style, the fast combat, challenging gameplay and the story that never ended properly. DmC is good for the those who like the new style, the new Dante, the less challenging gameplay and the more accessible combat. Many people defending the reboot aren't original fans so they are bound to think it's great pulling off air combos and getting SSS ranking with ease, but DMC was about the challenge, fast combat and fun sometimes campy style that you don't get here in the west. Im more disappointed that we may never get the old style back, but I have appreciated having played DMC some of the best action games of all time.
You still don't get it, Root. "Seriously though what's with all these defence articles lately, it's like in the past month leading up to release we've had a ton of them. Mostly the big sites that defended it have given it a good score so far...too strange in my opinion " See how twisted your viewpoints are. You whine about not being able to give your opinion but you want your cake and eat it too. You feel like everyone should be on your side and that any site that says the game is actually good is flat out wrong. That is not how you go about a mature dialogue. You're attacking anyone who praises it and any site that does. The game is a reboot. It's like having a reboot of Batman. It's darker than the original TV series. So anyone who doesn't like the tone of the new movies can just watch the old campy TV episodes. See, everyone is happy except you. Go play the older DMC games. Not every franchise lives on forever. You have quite a few games to play already. It could have just ended with the last game. So just don't buy the new one and let others enjoy it. Is that really too much to ask? All you are is a right-fighter. Thinking everyone who disagrees is flat out wrong. Which is why you will go into every article about the game voicing your opinion and then turn around and say I can't voice my opinion. You make no sense. zerocrossing, is taking the right approach, you aren't. You don't care about anyone but yourself. And anyone who tries to influence others not to buy it or hopes the game fails totally misses the point of what an opinion means.
@MikeMyers No... Twisted points...really, no more like an open mind on this whole situation. You don't say nothing for two years when the game is first release do your normal previews and such but then when it comes to the release date, go on about it non stop and defend the game just like that. Yoy've just proven my point though, you can't let others have their opinions when someone say something negative about the game. You end up getting your panties in a twist and get angry someone has said something bad about a game you like. Judging from your past comments Mike, you don't get it and never will.
Because calling it "crap" or a "step back" is your opinion. It seems to me that most complaints come from the difficulty of the demo, the perception that this is an accurate portrayal of the final game, when it was a demo that was built and completed for E3. The bottom line is that you negate your point entirely when you initially say DMC fans are bashing people's opinions regardless of whether they're for, or against this game. It sounds like a losing war. Can't talk crap about it because it's a beloved series. Can't speak good things about it, because it's "flawed". I'm sorry but when I put this up against the 4 currently available DMC titles, I'd gladly play this over 2, or 4...two horrible entries in the series if you ask me. Will it match 3? Not likely as that, to me, represents the pinnacle of the series...the bar that must be met and exceeded. That said, there's no reason it can't fall just short and still be a great game. If 3 was perfect, and this is a "step back"...well...that would make it at least Great...maybe Good? Certainly not the unplayable and steaming pile of tish you suggest it to be.
@zerocrossing I actually agree with you as far as why some people are disasapointed in the new DmC.
Root, whos panties are really in a twist, the one questioning your antics or the one who feels like there is a conspiracy going on anytime the media praises the game and makes sure they let everyone know this isn't a real DMC game? I'm not arguing with you because I respect your opinion. You've said countless times why you don't like the new game. So really, what else is there left for you to say other than to attack any positive news surrounding it? So it seems to me you're the one who has his panties twisted because you're the one who can't let it go. You're way more adamant than I am trying to get your point across. This is no longer about you voicing your opinion, it's about you trying to slam the game any chance you get and cause conflict with anyone or any site that may enjoy it. You want it to fail and will do everything in your power to make sure it does. I see others reasoning with you and why the game falls short but I see nothing from you supporting anyone who enjoys certain aspects of the game. You're the one who quickly turns on anyone or any site that has anything positive to say about it. You see, I do get it because I have left myself open for reasoning. You haven't. You've made up your mind long ago and continue to be a right-fighter. sarshelyam, well said.
I heart you root!! But in all seriousness the reason these articles are popping up is because people actually enjoy the game and there isn't anything wrong with that so it shouldn't matter to you if these articles do pop up. People like the game and people hate the game that's just how it is. Pretty much for every game.
I just love how these "original DmC fans" are basing their decision on a build that was completed back in March and intentionally made easy for accessibility as their E3 demo. I've been with the series since day one and, frankly, the old Dante had run its course. Capcom would have likely put this series out to pasture had they not got it in their heads to give it to a fresh set of eyes in reboot fashion. Bottom line, to me, Devil May Cry was great, the second was horrible, the 3rd stands as the best in the series, and 4...again...I hated it. That's half of the series that has completely disappointed me. It was obvious when they introduced Nero that they were looking to move away from Dante and, possibly, introduce a new protagonist. It didn't really work, so what was left? I've played numerous builds of the new DmC over the last year and a half at numerous shows and I can honestly say, the difficulty at each demo has been different. Some easy, some difficult, and it's obvious that they're building these demos with their event audience in mind. E3 isn't a show for a bunch of gamers, it's an industry event, so they built a demo with accessibility in mind. They probably should have made a better choice when delivering a demo into the hands of prospective buyers...the gamers, when they introduced it to Xbox/PS3 fans around the world for download...they didn't and that's a mistake. I'll be there day one next week and will be enjoying every moment. I never had an issue with Dante's new look, it was a refreshing and much needed change. As for the gameplay, I think you'll all have to judge for yourself, but remind yourself that we were given the "easy" demo!
Sometimes I wonder if instead of NT rebooting the regular DMC series they instead went in a different direction for a reboot. For example, instead rebooting Dantes story I wonder how things might have turned out had NT and Capcom instead decided to do a game based around Sparda. They could have helped clarify some story elements (with some artistic freedoms of course). I think had they started there, and built from that the backlash and fan division issue might have been different (maybe not). I'm still open to the current DmC reboot, but whenever a series gets rebooted some people will always get upset. I think the Sparda reboot might have been a happy middle ground.
I agree. While I am against this reboot it's because in no way does it feel like DMC. Really wish they would have just changed the names and made a new I.P out of this.
I felt the same way with Lords of Shadows.
you wont understand if are not a fan, old DMC games had "unique" characters in look and personality, challenge, epic boss battles and cinematics non of these are present in the new game.... add to that NT have been very disrespectful to us and towards anything related to old games. i'm all for change, but toward good not worse, reboot doesn't mean you hand the game to a disrespectful mediocre devs to ruin everything that the fans once loved, not supporting this game means we'll have a true DMC game in future and i'm waiting for that
I'm an original DMC fan from day one, even repurchased the HD Collection (still have my originals too). If there's one thing I can give the "fans" who are so against this release, it's the accountability of Ninja Theory and their words. I can't speak for the entirety of the team, but let's address Tameem Antoniadas. He has a big head...he's arrogant, a self-proclaimed GOD among men, if you will. He lets this arrogance drive his public appearances and actions, thinking himself something of a rockstar. It's unfortunate, no doubt, that he can be allowed to make such disparaging comments about the series, and the fans, but at the end of the day he's just one butt-hair on the ass of an elephant. Insignificant. Other than that, your anger drives your final words. Ninja Theory are not mediocre devs...disprespectful (in regards to Tameem), certainly, but ruination of the series is subjective. It's simply not the DMC you love/d, but that doesn't mean it won't be the DMC someone else loved. Similarly, there were plenty of fans who loved the series but had a difficult time feeling effective at it. Not all of us can pull of S(+) rankings in combat, so what's so wrong with having a game we can...if that's really issue enough worth addressing. As for not supporting it in the hopes that a "true" DMC is made. Frankly, I think Capcom was ready to put Dante out to pasture after DMC4. I felt like the introduction of Nero signaled the fact that they wanted to pass the torch...like they had done everything they wanted, or felt they could do with the series at the time...and that failed me, as a fan. If this doesn't sell, Capcom will likely reevaluate the series as a whole, not taking into consideration that there was a subset of fans who were simply opposed to the style and changes within. They'll look a the brass tacks here and see the following "Devil May Cry is no longer relevant".
Like I said before in a past post, if it wasnt or the terrible PR from both Capcom and NT and the constant goading from news feeds who condemn the older fanbase for hits instead of trying to unite them for some middle ground, I truly think that the game would have been better received. Common sense for anyone who is taking the reigns of an older franchise would have: To tell the company's limitations to the customer so they can have some what of a sense on how much of the old experience can be recreated. Work closely with useful feedback so which can actually benefit the game in not only being worthy of the title but potentially surpassing it in some areas with what's available. Never condemning past products in the series to justifying the reason why you stepped in. Insulting a customer's taste in past titles will cause an unnecessary anger because he or he will take it personal regardless of how you say it. The customer isn't always right but you better damn hope they feel that way. The moment of truth is here so I will watch closely to see what direction the one of my favourite series will be heading so I will know if Bayonetta will truly be my new fix in hack and slash.
We can't speak for everyone at Team Ninja but given that Tameem Antoniades has the status of Chief Designer and is one of the key individuals of Team Ninja as a whole what he says reflects upon the company as a whole and their development methods. I'm starting to really dislike publishers passing off their franchises to other developers especially when its a case of east meets west. Due to differences in ideas probably the most popular cases one being the Silent Hill franchise after the dissolve of Team Silent after Silent Hill 3 the series has continued to not exceed the pinnacle of the series which was Silent Hill 2. The other case being Castlevania where the old franchise was left with a huge hole in the storyline that needed to be filled (disappearance of the Belmonts after Symphony of the Night)and an event that needed more explanation and warranted its own game(The Demon Castle War of 1999 where Julius Belmont and company destroyed Dracula forever). While Lords of Shadows I believe is a good game it is still not in the appearance of the old Castlevania games that I identified with gameplay wise, art wise, and music wise. I must also ask you about the need for accessibility where will it end? That's one of the main concerns fans of the Soul series are having with the announcement of Dark Souls 2. I don't believe there's a limit in a players abilities when they play a video game its more of a matter of patience and persistence where then your rewarded. I'll elaborate a little more I'm a fan of fighting games like Guilty Gear, Blazblue, KOF, etc. I may not be the best kind of player but I'm competent enough, however I have a lot of friends that can mop the floor with me everyday of the week due to them putting the time into spending 100's of hours in training mode, should fighting game companies cater to the time I don't put into the game and just give me a magical button that makes me win the match automatically? There's my 2 cents on the matter.
@ sarshelyam Don't worry dude, it's just j-blaze. He takes things that one person says and labels the rest. He does that same thing with Naughty Dog by calling them arrogant because of what 2 or 3 out of the hundreds of employees say. Ninja Theory made 2 great games in Heavenly Sword and Enslaved. DmC still looks good. It's a self-proclaimed reboot that is well-received. This is not like Resident Evil 6 where Capcom shat on the series whilst trying to be a part of it, and most logical critics took notice. Too many still bought it.
DmC is now like MGS you watch more than you play the game fail hey atleast the cutscenes in MGS are fun to watch ^^
And MGS gameplay too are fun. So don't compare this game with MGS :)
They're fun, for you. Sadly, subjectivity is the entire basis of DMC fans in this thread and the argument that fuels it. You like what you like, its independent of everyone else and their taste. Some people are going to like the old DMC titles, and some will like the DmC reboot. Some people love MGS, and some people think it's crap... ...they're both right!
We find out - next week? I'm in the "hater" camp and could care less when DmC is released - which side's argument is valid. If the game sells well, does better than DMC4, then the opinion of those who like and defended the title will be validated. If it bombs, fails to break 500k it first month, then the haters, those put off by the radical redesign and NT initial hostile reaction towards complaints, get gloating rights. Not that such will really mean anything.
Look at this, a hater with reason. Really though, we should be seeing the sales as an opportunity for either side to gloat. If it does poorly, oh well. If it sells well, great for whomever supports it. I don't really see why everything needs to be a competition. What is anyone winning in this regard?
I agree with you that. There is no winner in this "competition" because fueling the schism between the fanbase was basically the advertisement for this game if not from the articles but from the game developers themselves (Alex Jones even said that hatred for the game is better than no one talking about it at all which is downright terrible for anyone to say and pretty much was the infrastructure for their campaign)
I'm in the indifferent group myself. I liked the demo well enough, nothing spectacular, but I'd pick it up once it hits $40 or less. I prefer the art style of the older games, mostly because I prefer the anime look. To me they just seemed like different games. I'll take the new one as it's own entity, much like I would say the Spider-man reboot (which wasn't really needed), and not listen to those that go on about which is cannon or right. I personally take every game as it's own entity. It's the only way I came to like FF13.