The PS4 Doesn't need to be the most Powerful System on the Market to Succeed
Playeressence's Furious Francis discusses how the PS4 doesn't need to be the cutting edge monster the PS3 was at launch to sell the most consoles next generation.
(Next-Gen, PC, PS3, Sony Computer Entertainment, Wii U, Xbox 360)
Thats the whole point of the article, Sony didn't go on this power hunt till the PS3. The PS2 was great and the games looked fantastic and it was the weakest out of the Xbox and Gamecube.
Price is going to be a huge factor. If Sony could some how make the PS4, $349.99. It will do extremely well next generation.
If they are missing 2013 and launching in 2014 (huge mistake, if it happens), then YES, they do need the strongest console. If they launch day and date with the Nextbox, then they can probably get by with slightly less power than their direct (MS) competitor. Launching later and offering less power, plus more shoddy "works better on Nextbox" ports would be a mess.
People making comparisons to the PS2 seem to forget that Sony was the market leader in those days. Now they're not. They don't have the benefit of coming off a hugely successful PSX, PS2 generation beforehand. PS2 only benefited because it had the market locked down from the previous gen, so every developer was already on board.
Sony could really seize next gen, but they need A.) A good price B.) Strong 3rd party relations (See AC III for an example of that - selling better on the PS3 for a multiplat, that's amazing) C.) Bleeding edge tech that people have come to expect of them.
@the yellow This article is bs,know one can say Sony wasn't on a power quest until the ps3 because not many of us had Internet back in the late 90's early 2000's,I remember people saying that the ps2 could push more polygons than the xbox1.
@zebramocha Dial-up and many of the techsavvy people here must have had internet in those days. And if not you can still search for articles written in the past on the internet you know.
Kaz needs to make major changes at Sony. The Playstation division is one of the few areas they have found some success in as of late. I doubt they are going to get into new types of formats or go in a different direction that makes things harder for game programmers again. I expect a more reserved system that focuses more on key franchises. The PS3 had a lot of exclusives but not all of them were a success. They have already closed down a few studios.
The most powerful is often not the most successful and as the new generation of platforms looms I expect gamers to be less loyal and more open to see what all the new systems have to offer.
@Zebramocha , The ps2 was the first out between MS , Nintendo and Sony.
Metroid prime 1 destroyed everything on Ps2 graphically and ran at 60FPS in progressive scan. The Xbox edged them both out with games such as KOTOR which looked amazing....
Ps2 had great graphics , but remember , Resident evil 4 had to be downscaled in its port to PS2 from Gamecube and came out looking a lot worse than it did on gamecube.
The major advantage Ps2 had over gamecube was Disc Storage , A game Like San andreas simply wouldn't fit onto a Gamecube disc. But a game like Metroid prime , F-zero , Windwaker simply wouldn't run on Ps2.
@king jak & daxter ran at 60 fps had bigger environment,was third person and a launch title,there are othe games techniquely thought impossible on the ps2.
The problem is Microsoft's More Money & More Power campaign to gaming. Typical American way of handling stuff.
Everyone knows Sony & Nintendo combined can not outspend M$ in those departments.
So like Nintendo did with the Wii, Sony should wise up and not go head to head with M$ in those terms & and use the current economic recession on their side.
Sony will undoubtedly go back to their PS1 & PS2 roots in terms of balanced price point & power to keep both core hobby gamers and developers satisfied in the graphics, AI & gameplay department.
Like they did with the PS3 Slim they will only put the important stuff.
As The Last of Us is any indication, the new generation of gameplay will be more cerebral and will depend much to AI interaction as opposed to hardware gimmicks. There fore Sony might focus on more RAM.
Also Sony should simply continue to do what it does best : planting the seeds of New Game IPs and ideas, diversity, variety, Indie game support, lots of free stuff, PS+, Gaikai cloud gaming,
but of course a big push in marketing, which is severely lacking now, is much needed.
Ps3 is a great console, but it will do no one any good to repeat it.
Ps3 could have been less powerful (Or more traditional in hardware - either way, less pricey from the start) and I would have still loved playing games like Infamous, LBP, Demon's Souls, etc. Probably more people would have, too.
During the PS2 era, developers was actually afraid of just association with MS. Sony didn't care about their developers, and made systems without their input. That's how bad it was.
That's all changed now with MS successfully shifting the game industry from Japanese to the west. Providing developer support (MS sent engineers out to developers) and developed a console with proper developer input.
Sony didn't get third party developer input, and hence the PS3 ended up as it did. Lots of power you can't really use and a huge price tag.
This generation (not next, because Nintendo already started the next generation), is all about who can build the better service, manages hardware production better yielding lower price and has the more balanced system (i.e. not hard to program for and the strengths are catered towards programs).
Being more powerfull or less (if the gap isn't too big) isn't as important as how the whole the end user views the whole value. There is a reason why the Xbox 360 still sells as wells as it does without all the extra hardware and exclusives.
If ps4 is atleast 5 times faster than ps3, than we can expect to see at least one or two games running at 4k resolution. It should be noted that sony ran the 4k demo with 4 ps3s connected. So if anyone says ps4 won't do it then throw this video at them.
People said the... same thing about HD when it was first announced. Given SOny's CES press Confeence and the big industry push for 4k, PS4 will have it. Some of you are thinking it's mandatory, no it's not. It will simply support it just like the ps3 didn't initially support 3d, but did at a later time. That's all i'm saying. Sony doesn't think one or two years ahead, they think five or ten years ahead. It's called future proofing your hardware.
Another thing is if you don't think that the GPU in ps4 will be stronger than a Tegra 4, you're out of your mind. If that were the case then Nvidia's shield should be considered a next gen console. It's an open platform (android) with expandable memory slots, and hdmi out port. Tegra4 was shown running EPIC's latest Unreal Engine 4. How do you disagree with a video where it's showing you GT5 running off of four ps3 at 4k resolution. What I was stating wasn't a theory, but something that has been done before. I guess you have to look at if from a LOGICAL standpoint instead of an OBJECTIVE one.
If SONY has proved that they can run a game @ 4k using 4 ps3s. Couldn't one assume that if ps4 is 4 times as powerful as ps3, that if could run 4k games? Just like 3d was with ps3, 4k will be there as an option for those who have it.
I think it's safe to expect PS4/X720 to run games at 720p(60fps) and 1080p(30fps) for the most part, but of course with exceptions where some 1080p games will run at 60fps. 4K games is utopia (unless it's Styx or Solitaire).
@hesido
I'm pretty sure you can forget 1080p 60fps on complex game types like Skyrim, GTA, etc..
On the PS4 1080p 30-60fps will be what 720p 30fps was to the ps3.
4k will be what 1080p was on the PS3.
Expect 4k mini games that are the equivalent of wipe out but look much better like GT5 on PSN. And expect full release games that look similar to the Unreal Engine 4 tech demo to run at 1080p 30-60fps.
The sad part is that PlayStation fanboys think PS4 will be über powerfull and run all games in 1080p/60fps and 4K/30fps. Just like they thought PS3 would run dual screen 1080p games, they're still gullible and living in a fantasy.
To be able to run complex games with high quality rendering, and lots of gfx effects you need a beast of a GPU, something the PS4 will absolutely not have. I mean a GTX680 alone today costs more than what a PS4 will cost. The GPU in the PS4 won't be even close to a GTX 680. Fanboys are delusional as always.
This 4K resolution for gaming on a console is a pipe dream it's not going to happen unless the system is $600+ get a PC if you want this. However I bet the PS4 will support 4K resolution for Movies.
I like when people don't read... my entire comment and take only bits and pieces from it. "...we can expect to see at least ONE or TWO games running at 4k resolution.." I never said that that would be the standard for games.
Gumtrol pretty much repeated what I said. I'm just providing evidence that this will indeed be supported on ps4.
@Bordel_1900 that's why I posted the video. The demo showed being rendered @ 4k so utopia is here i guess.
Here we go again. The magical 4k that will somehow magically run at 60fps on peoples 1080p TVs. Video playback 4k @ 30 - probably Iphone style download games - probably UPSCALED 4k - possibly Native 4k - Not a snowflakes hope in hell
If they can get ALL games 1080p at 60 fps I'd call it a good day.
Muerte2494 4K is a long ways off from becoming relevant. Allow me to explain.
1.) High end PC's can't run games optimized at 4K resolution. What makes anybody think a console can achieve anywhere near this type of performance.
2.) 4K HDTV's are priced starting at $20,000 and above. Seeing as how ther is NO demand for 4K HDTV's then I don;t see the price coming down significantly any time soon.
3.) Currently there is little to no 4K media being manufactured or distributed for purchase. Plus Cable/Satellite providers are barely starting to push 1080P content.
The bottom line is 1080P still isnt the standard and until 1080P becomes the standard and there is a demand to push beyond 1080P then perhaps Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo should focus on 1080P.
Thats........yea you have a point. I personal think the wii u is fine and i see the next ps and xbox being near the same but thats just my opinion. I been saying it for over a year now but regardless i'll pick up uncharted 4 even if it shows on a atari.
Were still assuming that the ps4 is still way more powerful than wii u even if its not most powerful system available. Wii U is current gen capabilities.
Plus Sony has the games we want. Mario and Zelda alone don't justify a Wii U purchase for me. I'll play those Nintendo games after the Wii U dies and is dirt cheep.
Everyone is always saying the wiiU isn't a leap and I just don't understand. I can see what you mean :S
We don't know yet. All because the games that are ports or remakes run badly. This makes no sense as look at things that are ported to ps3 (skyrim can be a good example) ran badly. Also when Xbox 360 first released there wasn't a huge jump then either. Also clock speeds aren't the main factor to look at its the architecture of the CPU and the console as a whole.
I just don't see the point of being a fan of one brand and slagging off all the others is necessary as a company isn't gonna come and give you loads of money for doing that.
It's always been about the exclusives and I see no short list of whats soon to come this year. They keep on providing us with AAA titles year after year. The only thing they need to do is price the PS4 at an acceptable medium, they do that and they're set.
i don't know how powerful ps4 will be but i thing i can say for a fact is ps4 will not be loosing money from day one. Sony is in too much trouble as is.
1.so expect a system which is developer friendly 2.expect a system with user friendly price point of $399 and if a 2nd SKU than that will be $349 3.games,games and a lot of games 4.a more enhanced/faster,improved version of PSN at launch(still free)
if any of you need proff on why i said $399 than look at Vita when most thought it would be a $349 system it was revealed as $249. so after the mess pricing wise that ps3 was i don't think sony is looking to start out like that again
developers complained till today that ps3 isn't easy to develop for so expect a developer friendly system, meaning much better support at launch and throughout
I wouldn't be surprised if sony already hasn't asked the developer community for their feedback about ps3 development tools
games,games, and more games. if there is one lesson to be had from ps3 and Vita its that software matters. so expect atleast 2 Killer games at launch and more throughout the first 12 months steadily
Uncharted 4 killzone 4
both at Launch would be dreamy
show Gt6 with release date and no delays Show Last guardian running on ps3(on stage demo) Left for dead 3 confirmed for ps4-gabe on stage again infamous 3 or sucker punch's new game
huge surprise being RS on stage showing Agent more surprises show FF13 versus running on ps4(may not longer be a exclusive though)
and to close the show Gabe Comes back on stage to confirm half-life 3 coming to next gen consoles/pc.
IF PS4 comes out the gate weak, they will get eaten alive... Oh you think Xbox is just going to say, oh they are coming weak so lets tune down our system too... LMAO..
What are you stupid???
Of course they can't do a weak system, because then even I would buy a Xbox 720 over a PS4 if that happens..
sure they can pull a Nintendo and make a Wii - But only and I repeat, only if they want to watch the competition eat their breakfast, lunch and dinner...
Yep, another example: look at the 3DS now compared to the Vita, same thing.
3DS = weaker console, sells a ton, gets a ton of amazing games. Vita = amazing hardware, doesn't move off store shelves, only gets a handful of good games.
why do everyone argue ps2 was the weakest, like it was one of the first consoles of its gen so naturally something coming out later like the xbox and gc were supposed to be more powerful the fact was ps2 was more capable than all the consoles before it like ps2 competitor was the dreamcast sony played the spec game for the last 2 gens with sega now this gen and the next will be microsoft
you all do realized xenos is based off cell microsoft basically used all sony's r&d for xbox 360 they simply went to IBM and payed them to make the cpu comparable to cell
Because it's too early to add the Wii U into a list with the likes of the DS and PS2. It's fine if you enjoy it, but a handful of months on the market isn't enough to say it's in the same category as the other two you mention.
That you jump SO QUICKLY to assume somebody attacking the Wii U is telling of YOUR attitude needing adjusting.
Calm your ass down and, as you suggested he do, read context. Your comment implies a level of greatness proven by a massive library of great games and many exceptional years on the market. Your comment implies the Wii U has reached legendary status since its release. The Dreamcast isn't applicable because, despite the good times many people had with it(and I'm one of them), it didn't have the longevity and stream of games to make it legendary.
Had the Dreamcast managed the entire gen with that same level of quality in its library, then talking about it might have made some sense.
As it stands, your second comment here is just an irrational rant.
So the simple fact that I like the Wii U hardware, that it works properly and that I enjoy what games I've gotten for it means nothing?
I think I'm well within my right to make that comparison considering I like all three of those platforms. It's not my fault that DivineAssault is another in a long line of N4G users who incessantly complains about the Wii U in nearly every article posted about and therefor is bitter when I express praise for it.
Secondly, my comment merely suggested that you don't need strong hardware for quality software. It's YOU taking it out of context, not me.
Finally, the Dreamcast is and will continued to be revered as a quality system with a short lifespan. Many people attribute that to a poor library section, being one-upped by the PS2's DVD support and rampant piracy. Does that stop it from being quality hardware? No, it doesn't.
I can't believe I'm being lectured by another single bubble troll. This community can be so utterly ridiculous. Good day to you.
That site isn't quoting Sony so why state it that way?
Here's what Sony has to say -
“The right time to talk about new advances in hardware is when you can demonstrate a significant leap on the current experience, and something that is going to be attractive,"
Sony basically said a while bk that ps4 wont be alot more powerful than ps3 that's straight from the horses mouth END OF,they might just match WiiU and Next gen it will be WiiU/PS4 as the HD twins hopefully they share 3rd party support as i dislike Microsoft they basically new nothing about Consoles or Game development and just got the wallet out robbing exclusives left right and centre and disrupted the Game industry in my eyes so Sony/Nintendo for the win.
that's from the horses mouth: “The right time to talk about new advances in hardware is when you can demonstrate a significant leap on the current experience, and something that is going to be attractive," http://www.psu.com/a015824/...
haha...who are sony kidding..if ps4 is only slightly more powerful then wiiu their fanboys will commit suicide because they;ll have nothing more to say and wiiu will win this next generation hands down....3 million and counting
Yet PS3 is more powerful then the WIi U, so you fail right their.
Anyways, Sony is going to most likely make a pretty powerful system. Just this time it seems with out the Cell put into it (which makes me sad, but it will cut the cost) and make it easy for developers to make games for it.
Oh yeah Wiiulee, wanted to point this out. The new Xbox and PS4 are most likely going to support 4K HD, which pretty much means they are going to be more powerful then the Wii U.
I bet PS4 is going to be $399 or at least $499, yeah not everyone can buy it right away, but thats the point of saving your money up.
Your an ignorant fanboy if you actually still believe the PS3 is more powerful than the Wii U. We all know the CPU is slightly weaker in the Wii U, but when the system also has double the ram for games and a GPU that is considerably more powerful (most likely by about 2.5x) and is designed to help out the CPU common sense should paint a different picture. I also just want to say the 360 is the best console for 3rd party support 90% of 3rd party games look superior on the 360 and that's a fact. The 360 gets absolutely no love on this site ever, also I would sooner play Forza over GT any day and I have raced cars on a professional level in the real world. Bring on the downvotes fanboys...
"Go tell that to the devs of Alien's: Colonial Mars, Skylanders Giants, and Trine 2: Directors Cut."
LOL this is hilarious. So you mean to tell me all those games are better looking and more graphic heavy than Far Cry 3, Crysis 3 or GTA V? All these games aren't even being considered for the wii u as of now for reasons unknown by the way.
"We all know the CPU is slightly weaker in the Wii U, but when the system also has double the ram for games and a GPU that is considerably more powerful (most likely by about 2.5x) and is designed to help out the CPU common sense should paint a different picture."
...darn kids. If that were true then where is the port for Far Cry 3 and Crysis 3? They run on a high end PC with a minimum of 2GB of ram for 1080p at 60fps. The PS3 is running it on 512mbs of split ram. There is NO excuse for there not to be a port of either game but there are no ports scheduled. That speaks volumes of the importance of the hardware to devs right now. The wiiu is looking everyday like the gamecube part deux.
Your right the rumour not so long ago said the ps4 would have 1gig of ram basically the devkit would have 2gig wiiu has 4gig in devkit so i'm thinking about equal maybe less powerful than WiiU.
Umm... shouldn't you say "if X720 is only slightly more powerful then wiiu their fanboys will commit suicide"?
It was them (and the media) who started with the "x360 iz moar powahfull than PS3 just look at FEAR for examplez". Oh that's right! You weren't here back then (2006) so you wouldn't know that would you? When we now know all this it makes your comment kind of embarrassing. Or should I say it SHOULD make your comment embarrassing but the fact is that about 99% of users in here today don't know s*it about what happened in here in 2005-2009 so...... Carry on. PS4 is teh doomz along with Vita. Down with Sony! Zalez! I know; it's better this way right?
The disagrees will come because your statement is wrong. The fans on both sides where making flawed claims and accusations. You can't just always point out that the 360 camp was the only one making this up. It is completely false.
"x360 iz moar powahfull than PS3 just look at FEAR for examplez"
And no one was saying the PS3 is the most powerful because of "TEH CELL", right?
"You weren't here back then (2006) so you wouldn't know that would you?"
It's 2013 Insomnium, I think it is about time you let the past go and start living in the future.
The Wii had the specs of a high-end Gamecube and that won the previous generation financially. The PS2 was somewhat weaker than the GCN and Xbox. The Playstation was weaker than the Nintendo 64. The DS/3DS are both a little weaker than the PSP/Vita respectively.
It's not really all that funny when it's a reality.
"The "U" in Wii U stands for "Underwhelming". Fact."
Where'd you get that one, a cereal box?
The online infrastructure has only just started. Remember what Xbox Live was like on the 360 in its early years? It's pretty different from what it is right now. The same could be said for PSN.
The Wii U has no hard drive, but it supports just about any external drive. If you paid the extra money, you could have more storage than what the proprietary drives on the 360 and PS3 currently offer
Finally, the "graphical prowess" of the Wii U has hardly been fully realized. You know what the launch window primarily consists of? Current generation ports. The first party titles consist of Nintendo Land and Pikmine 3 (the latter of which was initially created on the Wii).
I'll ask you to look at Wii Sports. Then look at Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy, The Conduit, Red Steel 2, Skyward Sword and just about any other Wii game that actually looked pretty good even in the HD renaissance.
The Wii U has just launched. I don't believe it's fair to write it off just yet.
@Poprocks If you're comparing WiiU's online infrastructure with Live, don't say 360. Live had its teeth cutting on the original Xbox. Live on 360 was sweet out if the box.
Would be good if the article actually defined what 'succeed' means. Most people seem to be obsessed with 'Teh Sony haz 2 beat teh M$'.
But for most company's the measure of success is 1st. profit and 2nd. market share. So it really doesn't matter how powerful the PS4 is as long as it increases both the above.
The problem the PS3 had - is that it took far too long to become profitable, and Sony's competitors have grabbed market share. Luckily the market is getting bigger and bigger, so there's more pie to go round, but Sony need to change things next gen. The PS3 may have been the most powerful console, but it was also the most complex to code for and expensive to manufacture - that's the areas they need to look in to.
If the PS4 is some sort of Trojan horse for 4K output, then I suspect we will not see a PS5.
this is one of the best article on what sony should do that i read around the web.
If sony try to have another powerhouse console is clear that MS will follow they have the money to do more nd a bigger.
Nintento live in their own world..they never tried ...also with the wii U to have the most powerfull console around.
But listening at rumors on the nextbox...(and till now the most was true) ...seem that MS having the edge this time
Sony should concentrate themself on PSN and first party studios ...if u dont have enough money to R&D u cant compete with bigger company than ur on tech....(look at LG and Samsung...against the EX market leader SONY) so do what u do better....
i think that sony will put out a system less powerfull than MS ...more powerfull of the wii U....and finally get some good profits from the market...and not as this generation..where the only ppl happy was the hardcore fanboys ( im not saying hardcore gamers..but just fanboys ) that use to go in forum and write "my ps3 have the blueray u have a little dvd"...or worst "the cell of the ps3 is a monster"....without knowing of what they r talking about seen that
if the cell power is 100 xbox xenon power is 98
Xbox360 IBM "Xenon" 19200 MIPS with all the 3 cores active a 3.2 GHz PS3 IBM Cell BE (only PPE) 10240 MIPS a 3.2 GHz PS3 IBM Cell BE (PPE +6 SPE) 25600 MIPS a 3.2 GHz
at this u need to had the videocard ..and we know the nvidia rsx of the ps3 isnt this monster
Looking at this the cost production of the Cell was like x10 times more than the Xenon..the blueray putted the price tag of the ps3 to the stars..etc etc etc
Now i do an example ....imagine both console had the same ..SAME..hardware.....who would win handdown this gen? ...SONY..with their first party games...
So pls i ask something very personal to the Fanboys....next gen dont buy a console ...and pls...PLS...if the next box will be more powerfull than the ps4...PLS DONT JUMP ON THE MS SIDE!..we have enough xbots also on this side
Maybe your boyfriend who is pictured in your avatar could teach you to spell. Fuck me it was like hieroglyphics or some shit. Thanks, now I have a headache.
Agreed, it's just a nice trump card to be able to boast about, but not at the cost of a belated launch window, or excessively high price tag to boot.
If you don't have that though, you can only succeed on your merits alone, meaning Sony must do everything else right, or else hope the competition does something monumentally wrong.
Sony needs to continue their current policy of: - offering a wide library of games that cater to all tastes - support all major markets, not only US/UK - keep substantial networking features free, expand PS+ - release a constant flow of exclusive titles - keep the quality of their hardware
Sony needs to improve on: - support of third party publishers (easier and better devtools) - advertising in social media - social features of PSN (making the network faster and the user interface more streamlined)
If they do that and the rest of the corporation doesn't draw the entertainment division to the bottom, they will succeed again.
I agree! I also feel that SONY should basically try to achieve the following points: 1. Keep the price reasonable next time around, and remember, the reason for the expense was largely attributed to the Blu-ray and cell processor being expensive and Blu-ray wasn't yet THE preferred medium yet. 2. Try to use processors that are "easier" to program for and handle so that the games can be churned out quicker and of good quality. 3. I would like to see them also keep with the current store and huge available library if possible. I really don't want to have to wait for a new store format and selection for years again. This would also be far more attractive to their installed user base. If possible. 4. Backwards compatibility (Although I know very unlikely, would be fantastic even if done through an add on or Gaikai somehow.
I have no doubt that they will have a solid lineup of great titles. I'm basing that assumption on the current PS3 catalog. If they approach these points, I think they'll have winner. I also didn't mention the used game flap purposely. I know sometimes companies pull patents on stuff just to keep others from beating them to the punch, but come-on. If they do actually manage to implement that stuff, they run the risk of used game retailers telling them FU when it comes time to distribute their product and I don't really see that happening, but I could certainly be wrong! Oh well! We'll see soon enough. BTW, 2013 has a great lineup coming!
Well I agree 100%, when you look at the most powerful consoles each generation, they almost always lost the console race for that particular generation. I loved the PS1/PS2 and those weren't the most powerful consoles at the time. As long as they try and appeal to every type of gamer, like they did with the PS1/PS2, keep the price affordable like with those consoles, and continue to make great games, they will be in a good place next generation.
I hope we see more rpgs when all 3 next gen consuls are out. We need more japanese and western rpgs. Not these hybrids part hack and slash or part fps....i mean true rpgs with epic storys like old times.
Wii U will succeed this year? Wii U will fail this year? What next ps4/xbox need to succeed? Will ps4/xbox fail? PS4 needs 4K to succeed? Why PS4 does not need 4K to suceed. New pokemon comes in a good time? New pokemon comes in a bad time? Do we need a new pokemon? Why we need a new pokemon.
Gonna stick with Sony Hardware. lets face it the Ps3 was a complete system a launch. It didn't need and adapter for wifi or an add on drive for HD media discs. I didn't need to buy another ps3 for HDMI or go and buy a 3D movie player. Only things its needed were a HDMI lead and a bigger hard drive. As far a electronic goods go its now the oldest bit of hardware in my home and still used every day.
Knowing MS it will be a system that needs stuff adding too later.
yeah it sounds alot. but if you bought a launch 360 and now have one that can do everything a ps3 can, it would have cost you over £1000. because you needed to buy another 360 just to get HDMI. oh, minus whatever you got for trading in the launch one. And all i would have gained is some timed DLC and cross game chat.
Well PS3 just surpassed Xbox 360 in worldwide sales despite being the most expensive, the most powerful and the less developer friendly for creating games. That says a lot. Though M$ did also proof that you don't have to be the most powerful to succeed.
Numbers sold is great if you turn a profit. Only microsoft and nintendo made a profit this gen. The losses that sony had this gen is more than they made in the ps2 era.
PS3 has been making a profit since the Slim model came out in 2009. 4 years now Sony has made a profit on the PS3 hardware. Also keep in mind Sony does more then just video games. ex.) HDTVs, Cameras, Phones, Tablets, etc.
I think Ps4 will be the mid level console in terms of power with xbox720 & steambox being the most powerful. Sony has lost a lot of money this gen with ps3 & vita, so I expect a system at around $349-399.
If Sony isnt the most powerful system net gen they are going to be really exposed. That and blu ray playback are the only things they could consistently tout this gen.
And if MS is the most powerful system they are going to use it to beat Sony to the ground. MS already has all the innovation with Kinect 2 and now illumiroom. XBL has been the console online standard. The nextbox is suppose to be getting a blu ray player as well. From what we have seen and know MS has a plan and they are planning to out pace their competition.
WAKEE UPPP NO GAME IN 4k FOR ANYYYYYYYY CONSOLEEE tell who of uu have a 4k tv damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn tellll
who is the crazy dev that put out a game for less than 0.2% of the tv out of there...WHOOO!??!?!??!?!...in 2017 analyst saying that we will have just 2.1 millions of 4k tv!!!!!!.....
This sounds eerie familiar. Isn't this what Nintendo has been saying since like forever. Now the Wii U is and everyone is shitting on it. Sony say is and everyone is standing on line to give it a BJ. Imagine what they'll do to M$, cause those specs read like something out of Star Trek with holograms beaming into your couch to bitch slap you when you do play marathons.
Ps fanboys need to make up their damn minds. Bitch and moan all gen about multiplat parity and lazy developers not making games right for ps3 and now that the ps4 could have an easier to dev for architecture that's not ok?
I buy all the systems. So I'm not picking sides. I will say next gen consoles need to take it to the next level. It's how we got where we are in the first place. Imagine if graphics had stopped at 16 bit. Because someone said, graphics don't make a game, just good game play. No that didn't happen. Everything evolves and games should too.
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it actually benefited them not being the most powerful system
just look at ps3 1st party games we have and the upcoming ps3 exclusives this year
but all i care about is games
and sony will get my money because of that
Price is going to be a huge factor. If Sony could some how make the PS4, $349.99. It will do extremely well next generation.
EDIT: and I agree above that power is not everything.. PS2 best memories!!!
People making comparisons to the PS2 seem to forget that Sony was the market leader in those days. Now they're not. They don't have the benefit of coming off a hugely successful PSX, PS2 generation beforehand. PS2 only benefited because it had the market locked down from the previous gen, so every developer was already on board.
Sony could really seize next gen, but they need A.) A good price B.) Strong 3rd party relations (See AC III for an example of that - selling better on the PS3 for a multiplat, that's amazing) C.) Bleeding edge tech that people have come to expect of them.
The most powerful is often not the most successful and as the new generation of platforms looms I expect gamers to be less loyal and more open to see what all the new systems have to offer.
Metroid prime 1 destroyed everything on Ps2 graphically and ran at 60FPS in progressive scan.
The Xbox edged them both out with games such as KOTOR which looked amazing....
Ps2 had great graphics , but remember , Resident evil 4 had to be downscaled in its port to PS2 from Gamecube and came out looking a lot worse than it did on gamecube.
The major advantage Ps2 had over gamecube was Disc Storage , A game Like San andreas simply wouldn't fit onto a Gamecube disc.
But a game like Metroid prime , F-zero , Windwaker simply wouldn't run on Ps2.
Everyone knows Sony & Nintendo combined can not outspend M$ in those departments.
So like Nintendo did with the Wii, Sony should wise up and not go head to head with M$ in those terms & and use the current economic recession on their side.
Sony will undoubtedly go back to their PS1 & PS2 roots in terms of balanced price point & power to keep both core hobby gamers and developers satisfied in the graphics, AI & gameplay department.
Like they did with the PS3 Slim they will only put the important stuff.
As The Last of Us is any indication, the new generation of gameplay will be more cerebral and will depend much to AI interaction as opposed to hardware gimmicks. There fore Sony might focus on more RAM.
Also Sony should simply continue to do what it does best : planting the seeds of New Game IPs and ideas, diversity, variety, Indie game support, lots of free stuff, PS+, Gaikai cloud gaming,
but of course a big push in marketing, which is severely lacking now, is much needed.
Ps3 could have been less powerful (Or more traditional in hardware - either way, less pricey from the start) and I would have still loved playing games like Infamous, LBP, Demon's Souls, etc. Probably more people would have, too.
During the PS2 era, developers was actually afraid of just association with MS. Sony didn't care about their developers, and made systems without their input. That's how bad it was.
That's all changed now with MS successfully shifting the game industry from Japanese to the west. Providing developer support (MS sent engineers out to developers) and developed a console with proper developer input.
Sony didn't get third party developer input, and hence the PS3 ended up as it did. Lots of power you can't really use and a huge price tag.
This generation (not next, because Nintendo already started the next generation), is all about who can build the better service, manages hardware production better yielding lower price and has the more balanced system (i.e. not hard to program for and the strengths are catered towards programs).
Being more powerfull or less (if the gap isn't too big) isn't as important as how the whole the end user views the whole value. There is a reason why the Xbox 360 still sells as wells as it does without all the extra hardware and exclusives.
to be stronger than the Tegra 4 (which output 4k video) and handles Unreal Engine 4.
http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...
If ps4 is atleast 5 times faster than ps3, than we can expect to see at least one or two games running at 4k resolution. It should be noted that sony ran the 4k demo with 4 ps3s connected. So if anyone says ps4 won't do it then throw this video at them.
same thing about HD when it was first announced. Given SOny's CES press Confeence and the big industry push for 4k, PS4 will have it. Some of you are thinking it's mandatory, no it's not. It will simply support it just like the ps3 didn't initially support 3d, but did at a later time. That's all i'm saying. Sony doesn't think one or two years ahead, they think five or ten years ahead. It's called future proofing your hardware.
Another thing is if you don't think that the GPU in ps4 will be stronger than a Tegra 4, you're out of your mind. If that were the case then Nvidia's shield should be considered a next gen console. It's an open platform (android) with expandable memory slots, and hdmi out port. Tegra4 was shown running EPIC's latest Unreal Engine 4. How do you disagree with a video where it's showing you GT5 running off of four ps3 at 4k resolution. What I was stating wasn't a theory, but something that has been done before. I guess you have to look at if from a LOGICAL standpoint instead of an OBJECTIVE one.
If SONY has proved that they can run a game @ 4k using 4 ps3s. Couldn't one assume that if ps4 is 4 times as powerful as ps3, that if could run 4k games? Just like 3d was with ps3, 4k will be there as an option for those who have it.
GT5 4k demo = 4 ps3s
1 ps4 = 4 ps3s
GT5 4k demo = 1 ps4
PS4 will probably be a hub for playing back 4K content. I'll happily play games at 1080p and 60fps.
Also, if a game looked as good as a 720p movie with ultra-realistic rendering without jaggies, I'll take that too!
You are out of your mind.
I think it's safe to expect PS4/X720 to run games at 720p(60fps) and 1080p(30fps) for the most part, but of course with exceptions where some 1080p games will run at 60fps. 4K games is utopia (unless it's Styx or Solitaire).
@hesido
I'm pretty sure you can forget 1080p 60fps on complex game types like Skyrim, GTA, etc..
4k will be what 1080p was on the PS3.
Expect 4k mini games that are the equivalent of wipe out but look much better like GT5 on PSN. And expect full release games that look similar to the Unreal Engine 4 tech demo to run at 1080p 30-60fps.
I agree with you 100%.
The sad part is that PlayStation fanboys think PS4 will be über powerfull and run all games in 1080p/60fps and 4K/30fps. Just like they thought PS3 would run dual screen 1080p games, they're still gullible and living in a fantasy.
To be able to run complex games with high quality rendering, and lots of gfx effects you need a beast of a GPU, something the PS4 will absolutely not have. I mean a GTX680 alone today costs more than what a PS4 will cost. The GPU in the PS4 won't be even close to a GTX 680. Fanboys are delusional as always.
my entire comment and take only bits and pieces from it. "...we can expect to see at least ONE or TWO games running at 4k resolution.." I never said that that would be the standard for games.
Gumtrol pretty much repeated what I said. I'm just providing evidence that this will indeed be supported on ps4.
@Bordel_1900
that's why I posted the video. The demo showed being rendered @ 4k so utopia is here i guess.
Video playback 4k @ 30 - probably
Iphone style download games - probably
UPSCALED 4k - possibly
Native 4k - Not a snowflakes hope in hell
If they can get ALL games 1080p at 60 fps I'd call it a good day.
4K is a long ways off from becoming relevant. Allow me to explain.
1.) High end PC's can't run games optimized at 4K resolution. What makes anybody think a console can achieve anywhere near this type of performance.
2.) 4K HDTV's are priced starting at $20,000 and above. Seeing as how ther is NO demand for 4K HDTV's then I don;t see the price coming down significantly any time soon.
3.) Currently there is little to no 4K media being manufactured or distributed for purchase. Plus Cable/Satellite providers are barely starting to push 1080P content.
The bottom line is 1080P still isnt the standard and until 1080P becomes the standard and there is a demand to push beyond 1080P then perhaps Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo should focus on 1080P.
Exactly.
BUT!
I will stop comming on N4G, cause the 1000 comparison articles will be, " Xbox wins, sony is dommed"
No matter if the look is the same...Sigh.
They should only make comparisons if the differences are actually noticeable.
Plus Sony has the games we want. Mario and Zelda alone don't justify a Wii U purchase for me. I'll play those Nintendo games after the Wii U dies and is dirt cheep.
We don't know yet. All because the games that are ports or remakes run badly. This makes no sense as look at things that are ported to ps3 (skyrim can be a good example) ran badly. Also when Xbox 360 first released there wasn't a huge jump then either. Also clock speeds aren't the main factor to look at its the architecture of the CPU and the console as a whole.
I just don't see the point of being a fan of one brand and slagging off all the others is necessary as a company isn't gonna come and give you loads of money for doing that.
1.so expect a system which is developer friendly
2.expect a system with user friendly price point of $399 and if a 2nd SKU than that will be $349
3.games,games and a lot of games
4.a more enhanced/faster,improved version of PSN at launch(still free)
if any of you need proff on why i said $399 than look at Vita when most thought it would be a $349 system it was revealed as $249. so after the mess pricing wise that ps3 was i don't think sony is looking to start out like that again
developers complained till today that ps3 isn't easy to develop for so expect a developer friendly system, meaning much better support at launch and throughout
I wouldn't be surprised if sony already hasn't asked the developer community for their feedback about ps3 development tools
games,games, and more games. if there is one lesson to be had from ps3 and Vita its that software matters. so expect atleast 2 Killer games at launch and more throughout the first 12 months steadily
Uncharted 4
killzone 4
both at Launch would be dreamy
show Gt6 with release date and no delays
Show Last guardian running on ps3(on stage demo)
Left for dead 3 confirmed for ps4-gabe on stage again
infamous 3 or sucker punch's new game
huge surprise being RS on stage showing Agent
more surprises show FF13 versus running on ps4(may not longer be a exclusive though)
and to close the show Gabe Comes back on stage to confirm half-life 3 coming to next gen consoles/pc.
Killer E3 IMO
IF PS4 comes out the gate weak, they will get eaten alive... Oh you think Xbox is just going to say, oh they are coming weak so lets tune down our system too... LMAO..
What are you stupid???
Of course they can't do a weak system, because then even I would buy a Xbox 720 over a PS4 if that happens..
sure they can pull a Nintendo and make a Wii - But only and I repeat, only if they want to watch the competition eat their breakfast, lunch and dinner...
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3DS = weaker console, sells a ton, gets a ton of amazing games.
Vita = amazing hardware, doesn't move off store shelves, only gets a handful of good games.
If not...make it powerful, but dont try to use innovative tech to make it so. That will also reduce cost significantly.
you all do realized xenos is based off cell microsoft basically used all sony's r&d for xbox 360
they simply went to IBM and payed them to make the cpu comparable to cell
He prolly commented because you mention WiiU in the same sentence with arguably the two best systems ever made.
That you jump SO QUICKLY to assume somebody attacking the Wii U is telling of YOUR attitude needing adjusting.
Calm your ass down and, as you suggested he do, read context. Your comment implies a level of greatness proven by a massive library of great games and many exceptional years on the market. Your comment implies the Wii U has reached legendary status since its release. The Dreamcast isn't applicable because, despite the good times many people had with it(and I'm one of them), it didn't have the longevity and stream of games to make it legendary.
Had the Dreamcast managed the entire gen with that same level of quality in its library, then talking about it might have made some sense.
As it stands, your second comment here is just an irrational rant.
I think I'm well within my right to make that comparison considering I like all three of those platforms. It's not my fault that DivineAssault is another in a long line of N4G users who incessantly complains about the Wii U in nearly every article posted about and therefor is bitter when I express praise for it.
Secondly, my comment merely suggested that you don't need strong hardware for quality software. It's YOU taking it out of context, not me.
Finally, the Dreamcast is and will continued to be revered as a quality system with a short lifespan. Many people attribute that to a poor library section, being one-upped by the PS2's DVD support and rampant piracy. Does that stop it from being quality hardware? No, it doesn't.
I can't believe I'm being lectured by another single bubble troll. This community can be so utterly ridiculous. Good day to you.
It's the smart thing to do. Make a profit on the hardware right out of the gate. Easy for developers to work with. Cheap to produce and sell.
Here's what Sony has to say -
“The right time to talk about new advances in hardware is when you can demonstrate a significant leap on the current experience, and something that is going to be attractive,"
http://www.psu.com/a015824/...
that's from the horses mouth:
“The right time to talk about new advances in hardware is when you can demonstrate a significant leap on the current experience, and something that is going to be attractive,"
http://www.psu.com/a015824/...
http://www.youtube.com/watc...
Anyways, Sony is going to most likely make a pretty powerful system. Just this time it seems with out the Cell put into it (which makes me sad, but it will cut the cost) and make it easy for developers to make games for it.
Oh yeah Wiiulee, wanted to point this out. The new Xbox and PS4 are most likely going to support 4K HD, which pretty much means they are going to be more powerful then the Wii U.
I bet PS4 is going to be $399 or at least $499, yeah not everyone can buy it right away, but thats the point of saving your money up.
http://kotaku.com/5913484/t...
http://mynintendonews.com/2...
http://www.forbes.com/sites...
Wiiu is about twice as powerfull as ps3 and 360 , we've just not seen it yet. It can cache way more than the 360 an ps3 could.
You have to consider the pipelines , Edram , RAM , GPGPU , DSP , etc.
Overall the wiiu will be clearly more powerfull than ps3 and 360 and it has 25/50GB layer discs like the ps3.
Clock speed means NOTHING if the pipelines are more efficient.
The ps3 is a RAM bottleneck.
LOL this is hilarious. So you mean to tell me all those games are better looking and more graphic heavy than Far Cry 3, Crysis 3 or GTA V? All these games aren't even being considered for the wii u as of now for reasons unknown by the way.
"We all know the CPU is slightly weaker in the Wii U, but when the system also has double the ram for games and a GPU that is considerably more powerful (most likely by about 2.5x) and is designed to help out the CPU common sense should paint a different picture."
...darn kids. If that were true then where is the port for Far Cry 3 and Crysis 3? They run on a high end PC with a minimum of 2GB of ram for 1080p at 60fps. The PS3 is running it on 512mbs of split ram. There is NO excuse for there not to be a port of either game but there are no ports scheduled. That speaks volumes of the importance of the hardware to devs right now. The wiiu is looking everyday like the gamecube part deux.
LMSAO
Nintendo Fanboy
"LMSAO"
Laughing my sucking arse off? :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) pewpewpew
It was them (and the media) who started with the "x360 iz moar powahfull than PS3 just look at FEAR for examplez". Oh that's right! You weren't here back then (2006) so you wouldn't know that would you? When we now know all this it makes your comment kind of embarrassing. Or should I say it SHOULD make your comment embarrassing but the fact is that about 99% of users in here today don't know s*it about what happened in here in 2005-2009 so...... Carry on. PS4 is teh doomz along with Vita. Down with Sony! Zalez! I know; it's better this way right?
Now let the disagrees flow.
"x360 iz moar powahfull than PS3 just look at FEAR for examplez"
And no one was saying the PS3 is the most powerful because of "TEH CELL", right?
"You weren't here back then (2006) so you wouldn't know that would you?"
It's 2013 Insomnium, I think it is about time you let the past go and start living in the future.
It's not really all that funny when it's a reality.
Nowhere. The Wii U is practically only just an optional companion system at best. It wont stand a chance against those real next gen systems.
The "U" in Wii U stands for "Underwhelming". Fact.
Where'd you get that one, a cereal box?
The online infrastructure has only just started. Remember what Xbox Live was like on the 360 in its early years? It's pretty different from what it is right now. The same could be said for PSN.
The Wii U has no hard drive, but it supports just about any external drive. If you paid the extra money, you could have more storage than what the proprietary drives on the 360 and PS3 currently offer
Finally, the "graphical prowess" of the Wii U has hardly been fully realized. You know what the launch window primarily consists of? Current generation ports. The first party titles consist of Nintendo Land and Pikmine 3 (the latter of which was initially created on the Wii).
I'll ask you to look at Wii Sports. Then look at Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy, The Conduit, Red Steel 2, Skyward Sword and just about any other Wii game that actually looked pretty good even in the HD renaissance.
The Wii U has just launched. I don't believe it's fair to write it off just yet.
If you're comparing WiiU's online infrastructure with Live, don't say 360. Live had its teeth cutting on the original Xbox. Live on 360 was sweet out if the box.
But for most company's the measure of success is 1st. profit and 2nd. market share. So it really doesn't matter how powerful the PS4 is as long as it increases both the above.
The problem the PS3 had - is that it took far too long to become profitable, and Sony's competitors have grabbed market share. Luckily the market is getting bigger and bigger, so there's more pie to go round, but Sony need to change things next gen. The PS3 may have been the most powerful console, but it was also the most complex to code for and expensive to manufacture - that's the areas they need to look in to.
If the PS4 is some sort of Trojan horse for 4K output, then I suspect we will not see a PS5.
It would be foolish to really push 4k games at this point for a number of reasons so it is unlikely.
Also, they should probably think of a decent marketing strategy before they launch the new Playstation.
If sony try to have another powerhouse console is clear that MS will follow they have the money to do more nd a bigger.
Nintento live in their own world..they never tried ...also with the wii U to have the most powerfull console around.
But listening at rumors on the nextbox...(and till now the most was true) ...seem that MS having the edge this time
Sony should concentrate themself on PSN and first party studios ...if u dont have enough money to R&D u cant compete with bigger company than ur on tech....(look at LG and Samsung...against the EX market leader SONY)
so do what u do better....
i think that sony will put out a system less powerfull than MS ...more powerfull of the wii U....and finally get some good profits from the market...and not as this generation..where the only ppl happy was the hardcore fanboys ( im not saying hardcore gamers..but just fanboys )
that use to go in forum and write "my ps3 have the blueray u have a little dvd"...or worst "the cell of the ps3 is a monster"....without knowing of what they r talking about seen that
if the cell power is 100 xbox xenon power is 98
Xbox360 IBM "Xenon" 19200 MIPS with all the 3 cores active a 3.2 GHz
PS3 IBM Cell BE (only PPE) 10240 MIPS a 3.2 GHz
PS3 IBM Cell BE (PPE +6 SPE) 25600 MIPS a 3.2 GHz
at this u need to had the videocard ..and we know the nvidia rsx of the ps3 isnt this monster
Looking at this the cost production of the Cell was like x10 times more than the Xenon..the blueray putted the price tag of the ps3 to the stars..etc etc etc
Now i do an example ....imagine both console had the same ..SAME..hardware.....who would win handdown this gen? ...SONY..with their first party games...
So pls i ask something very personal to the Fanboys....next gen dont buy a console ...and pls...PLS...if the next box will be more powerfull than the ps4...PLS DONT JUMP ON THE MS SIDE!..we have enough xbots also on this side
Maybe your boyfriend who is pictured in your avatar could teach you to spell. Fuck me it was like hieroglyphics or some shit. Thanks, now I have a headache.
If you don't have that though, you can only succeed on your merits alone, meaning Sony must do everything else right, or else hope the competition does something monumentally wrong.
- offering a wide library of games that cater to all tastes
- support all major markets, not only US/UK
- keep substantial networking features free, expand PS+
- release a constant flow of exclusive titles
- keep the quality of their hardware
Sony needs to improve on:
- support of third party publishers (easier and better devtools)
- advertising in social media
- social features of PSN (making the network faster and the user interface more streamlined)
If they do that and the rest of the corporation doesn't draw the entertainment division to the bottom, they will succeed again.
1. Keep the price reasonable next time around, and remember, the reason for the expense was largely attributed to the Blu-ray and cell processor being expensive and Blu-ray wasn't yet THE preferred medium yet.
2. Try to use processors that are "easier" to program for and handle so that the games can be churned out quicker and of good quality.
3. I would like to see them also keep with the current store and huge available library if possible. I really don't want to have to wait for a new store format and selection for years again. This would also be far more attractive to their installed user base. If possible.
4. Backwards compatibility (Although I know very unlikely, would be fantastic even if done through an add on or Gaikai somehow.
I have no doubt that they will have a solid lineup of great titles. I'm basing that assumption on the current PS3 catalog. If they approach these points, I think they'll have winner. I also didn't mention the used game flap purposely. I know sometimes companies pull patents on stuff just to keep others from beating them to the punch, but come-on. If they do actually manage to implement that stuff, they run the risk of used game retailers telling them FU when it comes time to distribute their product and I don't really see that happening, but I could certainly be wrong!
Oh well! We'll see soon enough. BTW, 2013 has a great lineup coming!
Wii U will succeed this year?
Wii U will fail this year?
What next ps4/xbox need to succeed?
Will ps4/xbox fail?
PS4 needs 4K to succeed?
Why PS4 does not need 4K to suceed.
New pokemon comes in a good time?
New pokemon comes in a bad time?
Do we need a new pokemon?
Why we need a new pokemon.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUu
It is going to be a very, very long year...
Knowing MS it will be a system that needs stuff adding too later.
Ps3: really high price launch with many feature (either have not proven it self or just as XTRA) and remove them as price goes down
Or
X360: decent price at launch, although lacking some features, but adding more feature as price goes down?
Which one seem to be a better business strategy to gain market share / consumer support?
Edit: forgot to add the price of a blu-ray payer.
That says a lot.
Though M$ did also proof that you don't have to be the most powerful to succeed.
4 years now Sony has made a profit on the PS3 hardware.
Also keep in mind Sony does more then just video games.
ex.) HDTVs, Cameras, Phones, Tablets, etc.
MS lost 3 billion
Sony lost 5 billion
http://n4g.com/news/1152736...
And if MS is the most powerful system they are going to use it to beat Sony to the ground. MS already has all the innovation with Kinect 2 and now illumiroom. XBL has been the console online standard. The nextbox is suppose to be getting a blu ray player as well. From what we have seen and know MS has a plan and they are planning to out pace their competition.
If the Next Xbox had significantly better graphics then the ps4 you can best believe that would hurt the ps4
who is the crazy dev that put out a game for less than 0.2% of the tv out of there...WHOOO!??!?!??!?!...in 2017 analyst saying that we will have just 2.1 millions of 4k tv!!!!!!.....
r u this stupid for real?!?!?!?!'
WAKEE UPPP NO GAME IN HD FOR ANYYYYYYYY CONSOLEEE tell who of uu have a HD tv damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn tellll
HD TV's were about as common back then as 4K TV's are today, so why should nextgen be any different?
"More Powerfull or not Sony have done a GREAT job this gen. And i'm lookin forward to the PS4!"
yeah lol great job ending up in last place.
Isn't this what Nintendo has been saying since like forever. Now the Wii U is and everyone is shitting on it.
Sony say is and everyone is standing on line to give it a BJ.
Imagine what they'll do to M$, cause those specs read like something out of Star Trek with holograms beaming into your couch to bitch slap you when you do play marathons.
Amazing.