The Valve developed PC-game-console Steam Box will seemingly be based in Linux, not Windows. And it's not the only exciting hardware project, that Valve will present in 2013.
I KNEW IT!! move on nothing to see here.
Obvious result is obvious. Windows comes with the expensive license fee. Linux does not and is utterly customisable. Don't know with all the disagrees. Steambox really needs to be considered as a new platform, for new games to grow. I assume a lot of you expected it to just be a locked down windows PC???? It seemed fairly obvious to me this was not going to be the case from the day it was announced. Valve are going linux this thing up, make sure whatever existing they can get running on it they get running, and then from that point on get games sorted for its OS. It seems like that oh nooeeessss nothing will run on it. But in actual fact if Valve do this, in time, they may finally be able to break the windows stranglehold on DirectX driven games that OpenGL couldn't quite do. Wasn't this the point? Isn't this whole thing stemming from Valve criticising Microsoft Windows 8 game store as being bad for publishers? Really Valve meant bad for Steam and us particularly. Steam box is clearly their reaction, their attempt to break up the effective windows PC gaming monopoly.
It's silly to justify yourself because a few people decided to hit disagree. They don't care what you have to say.
you know what crazy about this... This is going to finally open the flood gates towards linux gaming. this is a big big deal, a bunch of gaming companies will go back to their previous games, and rewrite code just to make it work with Linux. this is a big win for PC gamers.
it wont work... there isn't enough reasons to even buy a steambox... buy a PC run 100x more games then the Steambox will run
So this means devs will be encouraged to use openGl more?? Did valve find a way to make dx games work on linux? Stick dx11 game in valve machine and opengl version pops out the back? If so my PC says goodbye to MS when not using photoshop. Gabe knows his stuff. Gabe Newell: 'Trying to copy Apple will accelerate Microsoft's decline' http://www.computerandvideo... " Windows 8's early uptake lags behind Vista's" http://www.computerworld.co... 2013 = steam windows :( <- uninstalling steam linux :) <- installing ??
OpenGL can do everything that directx does If steambox will be ever born it's 100% that it will be linux Their reaction to windows store is Steam for Linux They even get Left for dead 2 run faster on linux than windows http://blogs.valvesoftware....
It's also quite feasible that Steam will head to the courts to break MS's stranglehold on Directx - much in the same way it went with web browsers.
Steambox is just a reasonable console-like solution for Linux gaming, it's not much different to installing Linux and Steam on standard PC hardware. Valve will probably release a sleek Linux distribution along side it (free for DL of course). Any Mac game or PC game with an OpenGL renderer can easily be ported to Linux, this finally gives developers more of a reason to do so. It doesn't really change the gaming landscape much, unless people choose it instead of traditional consoles. I doubt it will have any exclusives, but it will share many games that are on PC but not PS4 or MS's next console. Most importantly though, as time goes on vendors will be selling more powerful units - so as the next-gen consoles start to get a bit rough around the edges Steambox will still be getting more powerful. It uses PC hardware. They will probably designate standard sets of hardware each year to give developers something to aim for too, which will aide development. So if you want a console to sit under the TV that keeps up with the times and you don't want to build it yourself, there's a product out there for you. Also, Windows will eventually loose it's hold on PC gaming, the only reason I use Windows is for gaming because there are few games on Linux at the moment.
I agree with what you said but its going to be a while before OpenGL becomes anywhere near the standard of D3D. Though Valve have created a Wrapper for D3D to OpenGL its still got some performance issues but I really want to see the day where I can use linux for all my games in the future!
lol! Haven't I heard this before: "just wait until... [insert your personal favorite thing-ak-ma-jig here]!" Linux has been saying it for years, then it was Ubuntu, and now it is the SteamBox. Nothing has changed other than the wording of "just wait until..."! What is ironic is if Linux ever took off, imagine all the issues you would have. It's as if Windows gaming isn't a hassle enough already, you now are getting Linux! I barely bother with Windows these days for gaming, let alone Linux even though I use it extensively for work. I can't imagine a non-tech and patient person use Linux.
I think steambox will open a lot of possibilities, specially for those who are not into hardcore PC gaming but want to have a taste of it without its complexity.
Since most PC games, and most Steam games, use DirectX, how is Valve going to make Steam Box without Windows. How many games on Steam support Linux ? 40 or 50? What about the rest of the games ? I have more then a 100 games on my steam account, and only 2 or 3 have support for Linux. I'm not buying a console just to play 2 or 3 games i have in my account. BTW, is Steam Box going to have exclusives?... if not then what's the point of Steam Box. I can connect my PC to a TV.
Vulcanproject above said really the point. If it was just a windows pc in a small box, then anyone can get a windows pc in a small box right now! Steambox is supposed to be a new type of accessible gaming platform, more like a console in terms of usability, but open like a Pc. So don't expect it to have a full backwards compatibility of every Pc game available on steam. Expect it to support a small list of linux games. Then wait for that library to grow as devs start to build NEW games for it properly. So a nice fixed spec environment for devs to build their new games in, with the most open platform around. More than the consoles especially and more than windows! It is the final evolution of the merging of console and Pc gaming that has been happening for a decade now. Consoles have become more like Pcs, and pcs more usable like consoles. Steambox is where both come crashing together. If valve can mix the best of console like usability and nice programming environments for devs with the best of Pc like openness and greater customisability, could be a big hit.
The steambox isn't really meant for current steam users. Since steam users have a high chance of having a pretty decent gaming rig. What the steambox needs to do is actually sell the box cheaper than I can build one with similar specs. If they cannot achieve that then it would be a complete and utter fail. Good news for linux users though, however I do not know a single person who uses linux and likes gaming, Linux is more for IT geeks.
Linux isn't hard to port games too. Hell, it's actually MUCH easier to make games on Linux rather than Windows with OpenGL. OpenGL is a dream compared to DirectX API. Faster, more features, everything is worse with Windows. Plus, Linux runs better than Windows on the same hardware, especially old machines. But the games shouldn't be hard to port. They'll have to adapt their games to Linux with OpenGL. Or they'll have to start a project with Linux in mind from the start and use better technologies on Windows. It's not a huge deal honestly, especially when most code is "subroutined" to be easily ported. PC gamers should love this as Linux is so much more efficient than Windows, and has so many more flavors+options, and is just all around better for a modern platform. You can put $100 more twords a better GPU instead of spending it on a OS to run games on. I dual boot Win7 and Mint 14.1 Cinnamon, probably always will have Windows as it's a good legacy OS with how long it's been supported, but outside of legacy software, Linux does everything better and faster. If gaming comes to Linux...there becomes zero reason to not support Linux on desktops from manufactures. And with Win8's CRAP interface, you may see Mint coming to a computer near you...soon! All you who disagree...my 64-bit Hardware-Accelrated PC idles 180MB RAM usage. How much does Windows take? A lot more. Last big feature? RAM DISK. If you get 16GB of RAM and make a huge 5GB RAM disk, you can shove all OS files to RAM. Linux will be much faster then, even when it's 2x as fast as windows by default. The stuff it offers for gamers to maximize their performance is unparalleled. Hence why Facebook, Google, Twitter, Myspace and even APPLE websites all powered by Linux servers.
@3GenGames "Linux isn't hard to port games too. Hell, it's actually MUCH easier to make games on Linux rather than Windows with OpenGL. OpenGL is a dream compared to DirectX API. Faster, more features, everything is worse with Windows." Who told you that ? If OpenGL is so much easier to make games, if it is better and has more features then directx, then why don't more developers use it ? Since it can be used with Windows and Linux, why don't most PC exclusive developers use it ? Have you ever thought that maybe directx is easier, better, has more features then opengl, and that's why most developers use it ? ... Or do you think Microsoft paid up every single developer so that they use directx instead of opengl ?
So I can hook my PC to my TV and play all Steam games, or buy SteamBox and play all 3* Linux supported games. *That's hyperbole.
MS wants to wrap everything up on the PC into Xbox Live and force PC Gamers to have to deal with that CRAP! Xbox Live may be good for consolers but PC Gamers want no part of it! Remember Games For Windows Live...Oh Gosh what a Crap load of a mess that was! PC Gamers use to buy games and apply the Pirate Patch just to get rid of GFWL cause it was so bad! Steambox will offer a easy way to get into PC Gaming for the PC illiterate and not have to deal with Microsoft! For us PC savy folks we can keep our PC's and just roll with the flow as we already have tools and things to bypass windows8 and continue playing great PC Games without a hassle from Microsoft like just using Win7 or a Patch! PC Gaming is all about Gamers having the freedom of customization and being in direct contact with Devs and Valve is upholding that tradition unlike Microsoft who wants to Lock down windows and start charging everyone for every little thing! Wont be long before Microsoft starts charging gamers separately for DirectX....in the meantime OpenGL is just as good and FREE! MS feels they OWN PC Gaming cause most PC's run Windows but they are WRONG....a PC doesn't have to have a MS OS to play Games and Valve is leading the way in the long list of people in the Gaming Industry who wish to move away from all things MS!
I would be delighted if PC gaming broke free of the Microsoft monopoly. They are TERRIBLE for PC gaming - they've spent an entire generation trying to Xbox-ize PC gaming. Linux is where the real spirit of PC gaming lies and I hope it becomes an equal platform for it some day.
No... I don't have the time or energy to point out everything wrong with what your typed, but nothing is ever as it seem or as simple as people like to make it... nothing is "free" certainly not for commercially sold applications
The only place Elite says or suggests completely "Free" is in reference to OpenGL. And OpenGL is owned by a non-profit and is royalty-free. Of all of the things that are "wrong" that you "don't have time" to counter, you chose a really bad one to go after.
Disclaimer: In the interest of saving everyone's time this is going to be a pro Microsoft comment of sorts so I would advise that most of you simply hit disagree and forgo reading the comment. @ATi So many dimwits on this site.... "Microsoft is bad for PC gaming" MS is PC gaming, without MS 97 percent of the PC gaming market simply wouldn't be there. But for a second lets look at the alternative, and say MS didn't challenge Apple and take the PC market by storm what then? It's reasonably logical to assume Apple would of cornered the PC market without MS's influence, is Apple good for PC gaming, then all PC games could be run on Apple devices right and only be bought through the Appstore, what an fing fabulous idea! Lets shift the argument the other way, the PS2 cornered the last gen console market and destroyed its competitors leaving Sony in a position to basically charge whatever licencing fees to developers it liked also giving them control of whatever creative content made it onto consoles for around 3 years without any "real" competition. Was the PS2 bad for console gaming because I was under the impression it was pretty fing awesome. "PC Gaming is all about Gamers having the freedom of customization and being in direct contact with Devs and Valve is upholding that tradition unlike Microsoft who wants to Lock down windows and start charging everyone for every little thing!" Really really now? pc gaming is about "gamers having the customise and have contact with Devs" The customise part fine that is certainly a by product of PC gaming due to the vast differences in hardware. But contact with Devs? I guess you pulled that out of your ass like the rest of your argument. As for the locking down of Windows do I agree with it no. Is windows more locked down then Apples ecosystems no. Is windows more locked down than Google's ecosystems no. Is windows more locked down than Nintendo's ecosystems no. Is Windows more locked down than Sony's ecosystems no. Is windows more locked down than the Xbox's ecosystem no. But I guess by your dumb ass standards all of the above is attempting to ruin gaming.
@Rush "without MS 97 percent of the PC gaming market simply wouldn't be there" Video games existed before Microsoft and so did PC gaming. Games would have been developed on whatever systems became popular - today we no longer need giant corporations for something like an OS to be popular, because we have the information super-highway to spread the word on things and make things like downloading easy. You're just living in the past to defend Microsoft, plain and simple.
Problem with Linux? Devs will hold the console back..
What this means for Linux support in games though?!?!?! I finally see a future where there is enough native support for gaming under a Linux OS I may finally be able to ditch windows for good.
I wonder what the community would do if valve was to release theirs at e3 (confirming the "at least one console at e3 rumor) and Sony and MS did hold off on showing their consoles until e3 2014, further delaying next gen.
Nope all of them will show it this e3...next gen xbox and next ps4 wil both be shown this e3..
Makes me happy to know this. Although I some figured this is what Valve would do.
i wonder if anything i got from steam would work on the steam box
I would think so, especially if it is just an optomized computer you hook to a tv. You can already access a steam account on multiple pcs.
You both need to know what an OS is...
well i know what an operation system is at least limitly everything i have here Amnesia The Dark Descent portal *free from steam* portal 2 *free from ps3 version* left 4 dead supermeatboy starwars knights of the old republic starwars battlefront 2 i think i had to get old republic configured for sound issues as im using windows vista so base on that im just wondering if im going to have too much of a problem having my purchases work on another operating system it wasnt fully intended for?
These are the games on steam that works n Linux, grand total of only 41 games, as of now MAC has more supported games on Steam. http://store.steampowered.c...
41 games is pretty good for a launch of a new console and after this more and more will be added since devs will want to crack that market too.
Not a single game that would actually sell a console... No big names at all.
Thank goodness. I really hate Microsoft.
I'm sure nobody is losing any over that.
Linux is having a huge resurgence, if you count android.
Love all the disgarees on this! Most technology runs a Linux kernel, MANY more Linux computers out there than anything else. It's the future....and the future started years ago, haha. I don't understand...why fight it? Linux is free, the OS's are free, the software is faster+better+MODERN. Plus, you get many more OS's, and many more updates. Linux is used for a reason. And it's not because it's crap. http://www.youtube.com/watc...
I understand everything you say, am an IT major, for the love of God geeks need to realize that people are not going to use linux as they imagine it has been around for years and never took off. Linux is base in the background of every hole doesn't matter. What matter is ease of use... am 100% sure that valve will lock down their box as well they are not better than microsoft they are just another competitor, the more the better.
Game compatibility is going to be a pretty big issue for awhile if they're going to use Linux. There are currently 41 games on Steam that work for Linux, and they're almost all indies. I think the only exceptions are Valve's own games.
That's great news. A gaming PC without windows built in. Now all the dum dumbs can use it.
no surprise, considering how much (Deserved) Smack talk Windows 8 has been getting.
That's funny... I seem to be having no problems running my Steam software and games on my Windows 8 computer... imagine that... and they generally run better... who would have thought... but it's a piece of crap right? GTFO here
I'm sorry, but when you Tailor your new Operating system to Tablet users and leave us Desktop users in the dust with what is quite possibly the WORST Desktop user interface I've ever seen, yes, the smack talk it's receiving is absolutely deserved. There's a reason everyone's calling Windows 7 the New XP.
I don't get why people keep saying windows 8 is bad, every single game I have runs better on 8 than on 7. It boots faster, stuff works as they should or better.
Agree, but don't forget this is N4G's so anything Microsoft gets a disagree.
I bought 8 as well and even as a person who services pc for a living its a lot nicer to use then xp and once onto desktop its even easier to use than vista and 7.
Wonder how long before all games Published by MS or games backed by MS are removed on request by MS, I say right before this hits the market sounds right. Hope from here on out MS one ups Valve at every move they make.
A new force coming to gaming industry which will sift the balance greatly. Now imagine HL3 as an opening, exclusive title for SteamBox!
I can honestly say I want half life 3 bad, but please explain to me how steambox is going to shift the balance of power against 3 veteran console makers are you expecting everyone to defect once it comes out?
just like the PS1 did back in the day and then the Xbox... Isn't Chrome the newest browser and now is eating market share from IE little by little at a steady pace?
I use Mozilla Firefox. I dont like Chrome or IE.
They haven't even finished HL2 yet lol...seriously
I'm pretty much in. I only run windows for pc games. I can do everything else on my tablets and smartphone. Steambox + PS4 + Nexus 7 + iPhone 5 + AppleTV = bye bye windows pc. I'm turning that thing into a media server to stream my movies and music, so really an iTunes/PlayOn server.
so let me get this straight, you will replace your pc with a phone a table a tv and 2 gaming console and you'll be using your pc to hear music using iTunes??? such a terrible choices but... cool story bro.
Not to listen to music to stream as a server. My itunes streams to my iphone, ipad, nexus 7, ps3, appletv. I also use music unlimted with my ps3, ps vita and iphone, sadly the app hasn't been updated for nexus 7. Or even while watching shows like the walking dead on cable there are tablet friendly websites providing second screen polls and games and info. I normally play a ps3 game and have a tablet or vita set up on the side for forums/web/netflix on the side. This is why I prefer push to talk over open mic as well. There are apps like isyncr/rocket player that will read my itunes playlist and sync with android. I use dlna apps to stream my itunes movies/tv show folders to these devices as well with apps like boxee and PlayOn. Forum wise I will leave my tabelt with stand up on the side and follow most forums via tapatalk. I only built my pc for pc gaming, with steambox I could turn my pc into a server. For a little more intense and traditional computer uses, i also have a company laptop at home my job has me hold for remote assistance and on call weekends. Steve Jobs was on the money with "Post PC World", so yeah, your right, I guess it is a cool story. Bro
Steambox will fail. Not because it does not run Windows, but because - Valve is too small for the market. - No exclusives except Valve games, especially when you consider games that actually move hardware. Left 4 Dead, Half Life and a bunch of DLC games like CS:GO. - They never built their own hardware before. - They have no clue how to market such a device. - Marketing budget is significantly lower than the ones of Nintendo, Sony or MS. - Casual gamers don't even care at all. Just to put the size of Valve in context: More people work at 343 industries (MS development team for Halo) than at Valve. Combined. How the hell do they want to build something like a first party lineup? Valve has 2.5 billion USD in equity. (Wikipedia) For comparison MS: 66.7 billion USD, Sony: 23 billion USD, Nintendo: 12 billion USD. They have even lower chances than MS to succeed in Japan, because PC gaming is tiny over there, so hardly anyone knows them in Japan. And yeah, they don't have a single franchise that appeals to this market. When Sony and MS release their new consoles at the end of this year - who will ditch a new Xbox or Playstation in favor of a steambox? I like Valve games and Steam has some good deals every now and then, but this will not end well for them.
I like how you are so confident in that "fail" statement. You know nothing. Moving on.
its not a console, its just another htpc. Its got some strong branding, what else does it need? The success of pc gaming doesnt depend on the steam box, its just another option.
Your logic in business fails terribly. - Valve is too small for the market. What the hell are you talking about, THEY ARE THE PC GAMING MARKET. - No exclusives except Valve games, especially when you consider games that actually move hardware. Left 4 Dead, Half Life and a bunch of DLC games like CS:GO. no really?! No exclusives for a device that is not even out yet? what are you smoking... - They never built their own hardware before. umm, they are not a single man it's a damn company, companies are not a live, they have people in them. People can be brought in, companies talk to other companies, companies...do I have to go on... - They have no clue how to market such a device. You should worry more about more pressing matters than this. (check point number 2), it's actually non of your business. - Marketing budget is significantly lower than the ones of Nintendo, Sony or MS. So "%#%#" What?! Have you heard of OUYA?! - Casual gamers don't even care at all. Why should they be in everything!? Maybe they won't be targeted at all. It may still fail but not for the "reasons" you are 100% sure of, because your reasons fail common sense.
"What the hell are you talking about, THEY ARE THE PC GAMING MARKET." Yeah and MS is the OS market and that didn't help them when they entered the home console market with the original Xbox. Do you think PC gamers will go to home consoles now, because Valve offers a hardware product? They don't have the fundings, budgets, manpower, for this kind of business. 293 people work at Valve - as I said there were more people working on games like Halo 4 or Assassin's Creed 3. They really are too small for this. "no really?! No exclusives for a device that is not even out yet? what are you smoking... " As I said, the only way to get new exclusives is to recruit so much more developers (like 300% of the entire company now) or pay other developers to support you. Recruiting and finding top developers is not easy, believe me. That is my job, I am a headhunter for IT professionals. When MS entered that market, they bough Rare for 350 million, the bought Lionhead, they built Turn10, they bought Bungie. That is like a 700 million USD investment, just for a first party lineup that Valve has not done yet. And 700 million is quite a number for a smaller company like Valve (compared to MS). "You should worry more about more pressing matters than this. (check point number 2), it's actually non of your business." Am I not allowed to talk about this? I like to see things from a business perspective and this is a rational point. "So "%#%#" What?! Have you heard of OUYA?!" Yeah, I did. Your point? Marketing budgets exist for a reason. Sony spends more than 5 billion for it, every year. MS about 1.6 billion (both for the whole company). Where do you see Valve here? "Why should they be in everything!? Maybe they won't be targeted at all." Because, whether you like it or not, they are a part of this industry. They do matter. Ask Nintendo how they won this generation. IMO Valve has to market the Steambox as another device than a gaming console. But what should it be? A multimedia HUB? Well it does not run Windows, apps are limited and consoles are multimedia HUBs by now anyway and Smart TVs will be just that right out of the box in a couple of years. I just don't see a reason to put another thing under my HDTV. The Steambox has to offer something we have never seen before to justify its existence. Both of us ran out of bubbles, feel free to PN me.
PC gaming tiny in asian countries? Nope, PC is the most popular platform there, RTS games tournaments are aired on TVs. Steam got as many users as Xbox 360s sold. Steam is well known. And Valve has been growing really fast. It doesn't matter if Valve doesn't have a big budget, PC gaming didn't need marketing to reach 50m+ steam users. Also all valve games are better on PC, Mods, free dlc and never lose support.
Sorry i would drop $600-800 on rebuilding my pc for gaming, before spending $300-400 on steambox for valve games and a few indie titles. Valve makes some vary good games, so do alot of other 3rd party devs, it doesn't mean we need 7 or 8 consoles one for each major publisher.
No windows in Steam Box, gee that doesn't surprise me. Hate consoles that have see though plastic that shows the insides.
The only way I would even consider buying a Steam box was the exclusivity of Half Life 3. By exclusive I mean not even on PC Steam or 720/PS4. I already got a Wii U