With Sony patenting a technique to potentially block used game sales, Daily Reaction discusses the impact a ban on second hand content could have on PS4 and Xbox 720. -PSLS
The gaming industry will go down the toilet, I mean, why havnt they done this with movies and music? its ok to sell you unwanted car, gold, dvds etc, but not a game, theres a shop in my town that buy your unwanted cloths ffs (never been in there) how long is it going to be until they put a chip on everything you buy so you cant sell it on The world really should of ended on the 21st, atleast we would of gone pretty instantly, rather than have the life slowly sucked out of us by these greedy asshole companies Edit: Pirates will find a way, they always do
Because music and movies have multiple channels to distribute their product where as a games for now only has one.
If they were banned i would get really comfortable with the wii u controller.
Bad: Used game markets would stop supporting the consoles as much. Some gamers would be upset, although they should not. Either wait a month or 2 for the $49.99 price, or find who has the best deals, usually Amazon, Best Buy, Newegg. Not being able to loan games to friends would suck. Good: Whatever you download on PSN can be shared with another PS3, lightening the blow somewhat. More developer support, specifically from PC community (aka more games). Better sales for games and more profit for their makers.
Here's what Sony & M$ are going to do... They will sell their consoles without the banned games tech at first, then implement it when they have a pretty good userbase (maybe around the 30 million mark). That way people who already bought it are stuck! These companies aren't stupid, they won't screw you right off the bat, that would be suicide, they'll do it slowly. Both Sony & M$ have done that this gen!
@zebramocha you said it no theater,DVD,Netflix,tv and Hulu deals like movies. Even music has plenty of outlets to make money from. However there is gamefly but it hasn't really taken off and there's like 2 ps3 games when I go to a redbox. @AAACE5 like the wii and the ps3/Xbox because of the power difference and exclusives you'll miss out on a lot of great stuff but power too you I Promise when it's all said and done and we see what these consoles can do no one will pass one up because they can't buy used anymore
Do you not have video stores in your town, friends or family who game? I have a few resale shops in town who sell used games I pick up several used games a month. If people can't purchase used games then look at the trickle effect it will have on the people who normally buy brand new, get raped at GameStop trading it in along with another brand new title to get one brand new game. This will reduce sales dramatically as I for one would be gone. I can't justify many 60 dollar games anymore because of how buggy most of them are at launch, the locked on disc dlc,etc... I support a few devs/series day one but this would revert me back to my Socom 2 days only playing one game forever.
if Used Games Were Banned... Price should be decreased
Let's cut the crap people, although you are in an uproar now, as always you would adapt. PC gamers see Steam as a holy grail and I don't see them complaining that they can't sell their digital downloads. You have digital downloads on PSN and you don't complain about inability to sell those. If used games were banned from next gen consoles you would simply get used to it and that's it, so stop making empty threats that we all know you won't live up to.
@Jaosobno "PC gamers see Steam as a holy grail and I don't see them complaining that they can't sell their digital downloads." PC gamers get the games a lot cheaper, also games prices drop a lot faster too. Its not a problem when we are buying AAA games for 10-25usd few weeks after launch. On console though prices dont drop fast and are high to begin with.
I don't think its the problem with used game market. The main problem is with Big retailers reselling the used game for only about 2 quid cheaper and putting it in from of the not used games as tho it brand new. Regarding you not being able to lend games to friends. I wonder if they would implement the ability to share games with friends in your friends list only without an issue. A bit like how you can do game sharing currently on the PS3 Also there was a court case in Europe that allowed a man to resell a piece of software and and the licenses to another user. So i doubt that this would get implemented anyway. I think steam are also looking into adding this or already have.
It's just an industry trying to protect itself. Along with not selling you a hard copy, you don't even need a massive hard drive to store all your games. You can stream them instead. The bandwith requirements will be unbelievable, just hope your bandwith has been upgraded to allow for as many gigs of usage as possible.
"Because music and movies have multiple channels to distribute their product where as a games for now only has one" Seriously? Gaming has never had more channels than it does now.
Games have 2 channels. Online and Retail.
If they were banned on the PS4/NeXtbox, I would continue playing my PS360 and breakdown and buy a moderately spec'd gaming PC. I would not buy a console "banned used games". Of course... I think CyberCam has it correct. This tech will end up being implemented later than the next console launch. Bait and switch!!!
Thanks Nevers! For me I'm sticking with the PC next-gen, no console can beat it. Consoles are technically behind as soon as they launch, while PC's keep pushing gaming technology forward. The one console developer I will missed dearly next-gen is Naughty Dog. They are the ones that gave me the most memorable console gaming experience in this present-gen. The other devs/games I can pass up and not feel any effects. Although I would like to see a proper made Socom game, but David Sears & his team at SOF Studios should remedy that... look out for H-Hour. As for other shooters next-gen, I'm looking forward to ArmA 3, Ground Branch, Takedown & Interstellar Marines. Platform, RPG & Strategy games are alive and well on PC. That are a lot of reputable Indie Devs that are developing for the PC which will make the Steambox a success. As for startup Indie Devs, the Ouya will be a great medium for them to start off & thrive, without the choke hold of licensing fees. The Next-Gen of gaming will be an interesting one, my guess is that the large corporate structure of gaming as stands now, will start to crumble a bit, making way for the indie's to start rising up. The purity of gaming began with indie's, whereby the customer experience came first & foremost, before all this profiteering scheme was implemented, when the big publishers bought up all the indie deveoplers all the purity was lost. I'm really hoping a resurgence of that "customer experience first' mentality comes back with all the new inexpensive choices the next-gen will bring. Devs no longer have to have a master and are free to do as they please. Keep in mind that these statements are MY OPINION, so take it with a grain of salt. Cheers!
"If they were banned i would get really comfortable with the wii u controller." I could never get that desperate.
"Better sales for games and more profit for their makers." Actually 90% of games would sell less. Gamers would be a lot less willing to take risks since they cann't get any of there money back, and they would mostly stick to big name well established franchises. All other games would sell less, and it would make publishers even less likely they they are now to make new IP's.
Most software cannot be legally resold. You don't typically buy software, you license software, so you don't actually own it. The disk is just a distribution medium.
You purchase the medium the software is stored on and the licensing that is required to legally own and use that software. Due to the nature of the product it can (usually) be resold with the license intact and re-used. Sorry but nothing justifies what is being predicted with pre-owned games at the moment. if they want to go down the digital route, i'm all for it but they need to replicate the pricing that Steam offers. They can f*ck off if they think that charging £49.99 for a game on PSN that costs £35-£40 in stores is acceptable.
You have simply fallen for industry propaganda. Like caseh says you purchase the medium and the (mythical) license to go with, the so called license is just something they have invented so they can prevent second hand sales. EULA's don't take precedent over consumer law and an industry based on duplication/piracy should not be able to stop people selling a grossly overpriced product on when they have done with it.
But it's YOUR copy of the game that YOU bought, so it should be YOUR right to do with it what YOU see fit. If you want to resell the game to someone, then you should be able to without a problem. The company already got their share from that sale. The problem is that we've given these people way too much power to restrict because they know that they can force people to buy overpriced products this way. Prices would never really drop, and games would have exaggerated sales when they shouldn't have them (shitty games would have more sales than they deserve to because no one would know that they are shitty until they buy them). And it's out fault, really. We complain about the horrors of Gamestop, and game companies use that as a reason to take a mile from the inch we seem to keep giving these people. You can't teach people unwilling to learn.
"Pirates will find a way, they always do" Unfortunately this could not be more true.
Yeah, but if console manufacturers decide to implement this kind of DRM, then they're just asking for it!
If anything I'd expect this to spur on more hackers, speeding up the release of hacked firm wares and pirated games. Look at the psp, there was nothing anyone could do once it started, every game was available for free download. If the demand is high enough, it will happen.
I'm not sure to be honest. I've never been one to buy used games, for whatever reason if there is a game I want to play it gets purchased relatively right after it comes out. I'm not one of those people that can go back and play a game a year old just because it is now 24.99 used at gamestop. I imagine I'll survive, as I can't trade in or play used games on my computer. I would be less likely though to buy games I'm on the fence about used though, but that doesn't matter to Sony and Microsoft as that only hurts resellers. If they managed to sell games cheaper say 49.99 brand new and typically on sale for 39.99 and below, that would actually help them more in my case as I'd be more inclined to buy games. As it stands now I will only buy a game if it is open world, sports game, or a solid multiplayer game with a solid community. Games like Uncharted or Gears of War are the types of games that I rent but would consider buying at a lower price point. I also have to assume I'm not a typical gamer. I play a lot of games, just not a lot of different games although you wouldn't know it by looking at my steam library. Getting games under $10 can make you go buy crazy.
This is a bad idea, even for devs and studios... I have bought lots of games used, and as a result I went in to buy other games by those devs brand new for full price or in the case of games like borderland, go and buy the sequel brand new... and really I never would have played a ton of games If not for getting them used. A lot of gamers sell there old games and use the money to get new games, this will Seriously hurt the industry
i know i will get a lot of hate for saying this but here it goes: what do y'all expect from the publishers who spend 4-60 plus million on a AAA game and sometimes closer to 100million to do? gamestop makes billions in profits but no one has issue with that but someone who actually worked on the product includes a online pass and the game just isn't worth buying all of the sudden for a lot of who who are complaining well online pass is a thing for norm now a days so if a system blocks sales of used games people will get use to it. and let's just not look at ps4 what if next xbox also includes this so you gonna boycott those systems and online get w wii-u? a lot of 3rd party publishers will be on board this for simple reason their games will sell more, and they never actually have to lower prices either. i hate to think of a day like that but when so many people save $5 to buy it used at a gamestop than its on us not the publishers. what is going on right now has to change, gamestop,bestbuy,amazon and gamefly make a lot of money from used game sales, and the market share is quite big so off course publishers will notice not saying blocking used games is the way to go but something has to change, please don't give me exmaple of used dvd or car not bringing money to original makers. my point is let's admit the fact used games are a huge market and publishers want a share of that whether its high price online pass or blocking single player content etc, they will figure out some way of getting more money back. I rather Publishers make more than gamestop
You do know most of those AAA games are generally making a fairly good profit. i mean here is uncharted 2 for example. sold 6 million copies worldwide. now lets assume most of these were sold at the full 60$ price tag. And lets go with the 100 million you said they probably spend on developing the game. this gives them a total of 360 million they made with a profit of 260 million. They dont need to do anything. Its not hurting them like they are making it out to be.
Then perhaps those devs could release a copy for 45-50 bucks digital on release day and gain a shit ton more sales. There is no reason a digital copy should cost anything close to the physical format when you can sell the physical copy for a little bit after you grow tired of/complete/view the media. If it truly is about saving/making money then the digital media costs are less as they don't have packaging/handling/etc... associated with physical copies. This is not good for us as gamers.
dontbhatin first of all not all those sold at full $60 than you also have to give 10-15 to retailers for selling it, than advertisement budget. but you are right most AAA games make profits also there is the keep of server costs LOOK_AT_THIS_I i agree for publishers to gain more sales they need to look at their games realistically. if a game is only offering single player content for 8-10 hrs than maybe its better to price it $39.99 for more people to buy it day one full price there are 2 sides to this, publishers sell everything for $60 and that has to change but than what if a game costs more and actually selling for $70-80? game prices have remained pretty standard since day one. $45-60 i hope in future both sony and ms pay attention to Steam and see how digital sales are suppose to be handled. also have sales pretty regularly. a game that has been release for 12 months can't be selling for $30 when gamestop has bunch of copies for $15. so maybe both ms and sony needs a division that just pays attention to other retailers and their gaming sales and either match those or beat em by 5-10%
You're jumping leaps and bounds with the online pass, since the two issues are fairly separate. On one hand online passes were hated more for the questionable nature of them, than actually restricting online content. Many were more concern about multiple users in the house, what would happen if you switch accounts and things of this nature. The real turning point was Batman Arkham City (which was when a really popular game got one), since it used an online pass to lock out single player content. People got up in arms about it, but over time it worked itself out. This was mainly because people realized several things... 1) Many people don't use their online passes or codes in general. Many people have reported buying used at Gamestop and getting active Club Nintendo coins or the DLC without anyone using it. Obviously not 100% of the time, but I would say commonly enough where there is a 30 - 40% chance it will happen. 2) Gamestop started including passes with used copies. Some games like Unit 13 ( http://www.pixlbit.com/news... Mortal Kombat and Batman were all noted to come with an online pass when you purchased a used copy. This could be Gamestop working with the publishers to help them make SOME money on used sales or it could be something else... whatever it happens to be, those online passes weren't an issue. 3) Some people resell their online passes. It's not uncommon to find an online pass for free or for sale for a few dollars on a forum / ebay. 4) Not everyone cares about the content included. I don't think I ever thought Dead Space 2 needed a multiplayer and I doubt many people played the trial and thought it was worth buying. This is just 1 example, but I can't say the all of them are exactly worth it. Similar to the online passes, most of the fear comes from no understanding of the process and thus we assume the worst. Assuming it is the absolute worst though, it will be several times worst than anything seen in the online pass department. At least in those situations they're completely optional, where as this would be a universal lock out.
@Hellsvacancy The pirates and the used buyers are the back bone? news to me.. The real answer is $40 games.. Also why do people assume console gamers are not already big time pirating? Pirate numbers. pc still higher though.. Wii Games: 1 Super Mario Galaxy 2 (1,470,000) 2 Wii Party (1,220,000) 3 Donkey Kong Country Returns (920,000) 4 Kirbys Epic Yarn (880,000) 5 Red Steel 2 (850,000) Xbox 360 Games: 1 Dante’s Inferno (1,280,000) 2 Alan Wake (1,140,000) 3 Red Dead Redemption (1,060,000) 4 Halo Reach (990,000) 5 Call of Duty: Black Ops (930,000) http://www.gamepolitics.com...
If you spent less time on reddit (and more time on cheapassgamer.com) and were smart like me, you would have all of your 2013 games preordered for $33 each. metal gear, last of us, god of war ascension, bioshock, and gta v all preordered and paid for. let 2013 begin! not gonna spend a penny this year and i'll have every major release on release day for black friday prices! mwhahahahahahahahahahaha mwhhahahahahahhahahahahahahah aha mwhahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahaha!
It is because developers only outlet to make money is through retail sales. You can't compare the auto industry to the games industry either. The shelf life of a car is far better and if the auto industry were to sell "brand new" older models of cars they would sell in place of the trade ins. Besides, used games are only around €5 cheaper, they are a complete rip off. I always buy my games new to make sure the devs get their hard earned rewards.
I'd be waiting for games to show up on PS+
In fairness Music make alot of the money out of concerts and gigs and Films their box office releae in the Cinema-Games don't have that; it's interesting that this anit used game method would actually be a brilliant anti pircay for offline evices-if it can only play games with a tag.... however the blocking used games although i can see why they want to and understand would not go down well mainly because of how it would cause difficulties for people buying it new as someone who lost several years of a PSN account this idea in general worries me...
PC games have always functioned this way where you aren't able to sell them on afterwards because of a unique activation code. However PC games are also for the most part £10 cheaper at release and then with stuff like the steam sales a lot cheaper than console games. The problem lies with the fact that games are exactly cheap for consoles £40/$60 for a new release every 1-2 weeks if you want to keep up with the latest releases is a lot to ask for. Then removing the ability to buy second-hand games AND as a result of that the ability to share games with friends is commercial suicide. The solution, if they were to ban second hand games, would be to decrease the RRP of games to £30/$45.
Yes the games industry will go down the toilet because used game sales represents the majority of its annual income... Oh wait. This can't be done with music or movies in terms of physical media. If I buy a CD how are they going to lock my purchase to a system/account when its expected for to play it from various sources (laptop, car, stereo system etc).. In the case of DVD, its counter intuitive to what a DVD is and why it is bought. Both industries have little to no control over pirating of their goods, so it in their best intention to keep those who still buy DVDs and Music on their good side because it'll take consumers 20secs to find a free illegal alternative. Gaming is an entirely different beast and I wouldn't even begin to compare it to other industries. I'm not saying it'll be a great Idea for sony to do this but people are posting some pretty outrageous stuff. I also refuse to believe that half these people will give up the console they want, just because they can't buy their game for $5 cheaper or sell it a month later. I can respect people opposing it from a political stance, but otherwise all they're saying is that you do not believe the product you're buying is worth its selling price. Developers have crafted a game for you to experience, if you want it, just give them your money lol
"The gaming industry will go down the toilet, I mean, why havnt they done this with movies and music? " There is a reason for that. Any old company can make a cheap DVD player so enforcing it would be impossible. To get around it movies have just gone digital to an extent with services. Music do it another way by making it cheap enough to really question why bother pirate. Again any old company can make a cd player so enforcing a ban on used CDs is impossible but again who buys CD players anymore. It is all MP3 and digital downloads. Any old company cannot just make a games console. The could go down the media root instead how ever games are much larger than movies (GB wise) and game companies still require shops to sell their systems.
I'll just carry on playing my WiiU guys who cares about playstation and microsoft there loosing the plot these days poor adverts hint hint vita,selling out your hardcore fans with Kinect adverts everywhere cheapening the brand i'll stick with NINTY.
At least pirates tend to not get profit for their efforts meaning that they do it because they arent the bad guys here.
GameStop's stock would drop even lower.
I really don't want to deal with DRM next-gen!
Remember when consoles were simple. I do, and the gaming industry was booming and developers were making money.
Chaos Sporks +5
That means I will be an exclusive PC gaming guy. :]
Why? Are used games popular on PC??
No, but console games are way too expensive for their quality. Considering I can make a game look 10 times better on my PC and get it at less than half the price with Steam.
My only issue is using MY game on a friend's PS3 or vice versa. If they implement a system to allow game lending then I don't give a shit if used game sales are stopped.
I hope this kind of thing doesn't happen but assuming you are the only one who can play your game then I think it would make sense for it to be linked to your ID. This way you could log in on your friend's PS3 and play your game. Let's hope it doesn't come to anything like this though.
Well, they're trying to stop lending because lending is usually one person getting the experience at the other's expense. What they could do is allow trial modes for other accounts so someone else can TRY the game but not get full access.
It's over guys. Let's pack our bags.
Somebody turn the lights out
Shut the door on your way out.
thats why you can always hack your system....
Microsoft has already stated that they will not block used games sales. (Although I'm sure they want to, and I'm sure the devs feel the same way.) Sony may have made a few big mistakes, but the people running the company are not stupid. Sony wants to make a big comeback next gen, and screwing budget gamers isn't going to help their cause. People need to realize that companies create patents for many products that never see the light of day. There is also "patent squatting."
"Sony may have made a few big mistakes, but the people running the company are not stupid. Sony wants to make a big comeback next gen, and screwing budget gamers isn't going to help their cause." Agreed. People seem to have forgotten this as well. http://www.destructoid.com/... Sony patents A LOT of things. But I doubt out of all of them, this will be the one to be implemented.
alot more people will be buying there third party games on the wii u which could put nintendo back on top, and microsoft and my personal fav sony will be looking mighty stupid.
Uhuh. That's exactly what would happen. But even as a Nintendo fan. No way are Microsoft gunna shoot themselves in the foot for Nintendo. Neither would Sony ? (remains to be seen). The pre owned game business is multi billion dollar right ?
I just want to throw something out there. While I agree that this all seems a little crazy and really won't see the light of day cause most patients don't, the risks, backlash, ect. I just listened to IGNs thoughts on this and they seem to say that the games will be tied to your account and not necessarily the console. If this is true and thinking from a sharing with friends thing (which seems to be one of the biggest complaints) why not just download/share your account when visiting a friends house? Similiar to what ms does now were I can go to a friends and load my XBL tag onto their account?