A newly published patent application filed by Sony outlines a content protection system that would use small RFID chips embedded on game discs to prevent used games from being played on its systems, all without requiring an online connection. Filed in September and still awaiting approval from the US Patent Office, the patent application for an "electronic content processing system, electronic content processing method, package of electronic content, and use permission apparatus" describes a system "that reliably restricts the use of electronic content dealt in the second-hand markets."
Used game sales continue to be a major concern for many big-name publishers and developers, who see the practice as a drain on the revenue they earn from selling new software. Sony's patent explicitly points out that suppressing the used game market will "[support] the redistribution of part of proceeds from sales of the electronic content to the developers."
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For the gamer it sucks as far as sharing and buying games from other people. But this is more so a stab at Gamestop than it is to hurt gamers. Gamestop makes billions each year, and the majority of those sales come from their used games of which the developers & publishers see none of.
Now take that $1 billion, and say 100 good games came out and they split that billions even. That's $1,000,000 per studio. Now let's use the same setup, but a realistic number such as 20 great games in 1 year that's $50,000,000 those studios are missing out on. That's a lot of money and that $50,000,000 could have easily funded a year's worth of DLC for the game and a good portion of funding for the sequel.
It's no wonder Sony and highly likely MS are doing this, and I'm sure the 3rd party developers and publishers are on their backs about this as well as their stock holders. No company wants to lose money and the used game market is the biggest culprit of stealing from their business.
My guess is there'll be a limit on the amount of times you can use that disc on multiple systems, before it locks to those consoles (maybe 3 - 5 times like PSN use to do). The majority of households have 1 console, and it's extremely rare for families to have more than 5. If they did do something like this would you be satisfied with the results.
It's also a way to get people to go digital only, and leave behind physical media which again saves billions (if the PS3 didn't need a Blu Ray, it could have been sold for $399 easy day 1, and there's no need to buy billions of Blu Ray disc to copy games to for developers).
I don't agree with the way they're going about it, but I can't blame them. If someone's stealing from me, and I can find a way to stop them I would.
Gamestop games are $55 for recently released used games ($50 if you have a membership). And with online games having Online passes now, you might as well buy the game new. The only time used is worth it is on older games, or the rare Buy 2 get 1 free sale. That being said new games need to work on their pricing as well. After 3 month drop that price from $60 to $40. After another 3 months drop it from $40 to $30. After a year drop it from $30 to $20 (aka greatest hits) and sale a GOTY edition with all the DLC for $40. Games that are over 2 year old shouldn't still be $40. And buying digital copies of games should save you a few bucks instantly. Those are better options than trying to prevent used games completely if that's the goal of this patent.
If that was the case, I personally would have no issues supporting piracy instead.
@ABizzel1:
"I don't agree with the way they're going about it, but I can't blame them. If someone's stealing from me, and I can find a way to stop them I would."
Used games is not stealing in any way or form. Reselling a legally obtained copy of a game is my right. That is why we have the "first sale doctrine" that ensures that the copyright holder gets their *FAIR* share of the sale, and no more.
Copyright holders shouldn't enjoy an additional profit from second hand sales or force consumers to only buy new.
If any console manufacturer did that, I would not buy their system and advocate piracy on their system. They truly deserve to fail! That is just going way too far.
Ummm... why buy used games if not for the price? Lord knows that you don't save much money on a newer used game (at least not at Game Stop), but people still like the $5 (give or take) savings. Personally, that is the reason I shop on Amazon -- new games are often times less expensive than used games on Amazon!
But, if not the price, then why wouldn't gamers want to support the developers?? They don't create games for free, you know.
To say that people do not buy used games for the price is intellectually dishonest. What other reasons are there? To support Game Stop??
Seriously, I would love to know.
Rarity, out of print, older, things of this nature...? A lot of games have really small production runs and become extremely hard to find / rare with no signs of a reprint. Prior to Neptunia getting a reprint (I think it got one...), a used copy sold for 60+ dollars on ebay. If games have a low production run / sell out in a retail store and don't go digital... resale is the only way to ever play them. (past piracy, though even thats not 100%)
But it is true that not everyone can come up with that much money, but that really is the problem for most people. Most of the time they don't know if the game is worth getting or something else.
At least I hope that you don't.
I totally agree. Why video games should have some different classification from other property is beyond me. When I buy any other product (from a car to a house to a toaster), I can resell it because it belongs to me. Next thing they'll tell us is that we can't sell our PS4 or Xbox 720 hardware because we only have limited license to use the consoles. I am sure that there will be litigation if this was attempted and the Courts will have to sort it out.
On another note, it is unlikely that Sony or Microsoft (remember there were stories about the next Xbox having similar used game protection a few months ago). There are often patents filed for that are never used. Tech companies use the patents as leverage to force others to pay them royalties.
Anyway, we shall see!
A lot of people forget that many consider the ability to resell a game (didn't like it, lack of time, got it for free with PS Plus, platinumed / won't ever play) as part of the games value. Even if I save $20 dollars on the current MSRP (not that hard with all the deals going around now...), I will be less incline to try a weird game as I will be accepting more risk. I think this will be true for many people and will cause more problems than the actual act of buying used games.
What if my PS4 breaks down, are my games useless or would I have to contact Sony and give them my purchase code so they can update my new PS4 to play the game.
Anyone trying to justify this needs a reality check and get help - It could be MS or Nintendo doing this and my comment will still stand THIS IS MADNESS
Personally, I don't see the issue here. I buy my games new, and those games I do buy pre-owned, I buy for single player purposes only (locking out multiplayer/online passes being the greater focus here it seems).
However, the idea that it would doom the ps4 is comical. Look at how many rights we've already given up to corporations in the last decade. Heck, if one system did, it would probably become standard within a generation or two. Go back in time to the early days of online gaming and tell them about how we have online passes, content passes, online DRM, save file DRM, etc.....they would think the industry would be doomed trying those things, too. But here we are, with a game industry bigger than ever and more oppressive than ever.
Yes!!
"Hey buddy can I borrow that game?"
"Nope, sorry, I already played it on my system. You'll have to come over instead."
Dumb.
"Why should two people get to play it for the price of one?!"
Video games are meant to be social entertainment, and if you take away the ability to bring your game to someone else's house, then you take away part of what the games were initially meant for.
If they go through with this, all Microsoft has to do is not follow their lead, and Sony's done in the hardware business. They're not standing on strong footing like they were with the PS1 and PS2. This is a really stupid move at a volatile time.
Sony care so so much!!
It comes down to greed they hate used games sales but really dont try to compete..
i would rather send $65 dollars on a new game than get it for $60. if i buy a used game it's usually for $20 dollars and because i have a discount card may get it cheaper than that for older titles.
i know some poeple dont want the vita because it's tooo complicated , i think about the limitation more then playing , im afraid i will do the same if ps4 used the same policy ..
on topic i 100% agree with what your saying about the ps4 and my friends and i borrow games back and forth all the time, and we all own more than 1 ps3, i think it would hurt hardware sales
So yes it's just me but I am not the only one and it's obvious how much this is actually affecting developers, they aren't making nearly as much money because before people wanted to buy new games.
I understand prices for games are too high but why don't you look at the economy as a whole? If people had better paying jobs they wouldn't mind spending more on games but everything in this world becomes more expensive while jobs end up paying us less and less. I can't stand how everyone focuses on petty crap like this when it isn't the source of the problem.
Many people can't get jobs that pay well, it isn't Sony's faults, Nintendo's fault or even Microsoft's. I can only blame people for putting up with this shit and taking it up the ass without ever fighting for more.
What is dumb to me is that no one is making money anymore from gaming, what is dumb is that studios are closing all over, good studios because they are literally making no money from the games they create and sell.
What is dumb is people are so self centered they would rather fill their own personal needs than see a company be able to succeed. It is a huge problem, maybe not for you since you aren't the studios being shut down, you aren't the companies who have to support these developers and seeing no return in revenue, so why would you care.
One thing I hate about humanity. They are so quick to judge but they never want to understand anything. It isn't hard to understand why they are doing this and I promise you if any of you were in their position right now you would be doing the exact same thing when you see Gamestop/Ebgames is making more money off the games being made than the actual developers of these games themselves.
Developers are so scared to release this or that on that system or this system simply because they are afraid they won't make any money. So now Sony actually does something about that and actually possibly insures a better future for developers and every ones get's butt hurt?
Oh no I can't trade games with my friends, I can't make money off my games.. Give me a break, they don't give you shit for games anymore anyway.. Fuck they won't even give you cash for games anymore.. So what the hell are you whining for? You are getting a crappy in store credit. I remember when you got cold hard cash and weren't forced to throw that money right back into some game stores bank account.
Sure an in store credit sounds great but the only people it's helping is the damn store. They are getting the money back they just gave while still selling your used games for real cash, not credits.
This will be better for gaming as a whole, developers won't be so afraid now to lose investments they have put work into.
Bravo Sony, Bravo for actually caring. Bravo for actually taking a stand and actually trying to do something different. I mean it's just like money period, look how much problems exist in this world due to a simple piece of green paper but no, no one can think of a better system for people to live their lives with?
No it all has to do with greed, people don't care about a better future, people don't care about others living equally people want to be the best, they want to make sure no one else can, they only want what they want.. I hate Society.
So again Bravo Sony, things are screwed up and you finally actually did something about it. Maybe we will see more games across all platforms now, just maybe we will see better games altogether now that they know they can actually make money off them. How things used to be, sure it may be different because as always people abuse whatever they can, then they want to complain when shit like this happens.
I can't complain I was one of the people who bought nothing but used games and I could actually afford new ones it really wasn't the problem, the problem was if I see a game for cheaper used, I am simply going to buy it.
What does this even mean? Do you mean "I am careless," because if that's the case, you should be more careful. The world is a dangerous place. Yesterday I was careless and almost hit a cyclist with my car.
Or do you mean "I could care less," which doesn't match the rest of your post, because it means you care?
I'm sorry, but the meaning of your post is unclear.
I understand that these companies need and should be able to make a profit from their games but I hope it is not carried out in a fashion that would limit me in my own home.
If a game doesn't sell well in it's first month, then it's rarely due to the 2nd hand market. It does effect long term sales of the product...ie. over the course of the next year...but in the same vein, those people trading in are often using that credit to purchase new games.
Publishers may not like the 2nd hand market, and obviously they are doing things to recoup money from that market (DLC, on-line passes, etc), but they aren't so ignorant to believe that their profit margins are greatly affected by that market. At times it can even be beneficial to them.
Cutting out the 2nd hand market would have immediate and long term negative ramifications to the gaming industry. I'm all for supporting a developer, but at the same time I don't believe that these same developers or publishers I support should remove our choices as consumers. Nor do I believe that we should just lay down and take it on behalf of the developers.
Here's a crazy thought. Instead of blaming the 2nd hand market, why don't publishers make games that people want to keep.
If your going to respond at least offer a counter-argument instead of trying to discredit my argument by implying I'm ignorant.
As far as making a game people want to keep. Obviously people are different, and some people just aren't going to keep games past their initial play through. But a counter-argument could be, how many of those people would purchase the game new, knowing that they would be stuck with it forever. Or how many of those people that would have traded it in for a new game now can't, so they don't purchase a new game.
In answer to that, it's unknown, and purely speculative, along with all the other scenarios that people come up with. And that's the problem. People are going to cherry-pick these arguments and discuss them without agreeing that there are pros and cons to each side. For the most part I prefer to err on the side of the consumer, as I am one.
If companies want to implement something like this, then it's on them to provide evidence to support why it's beneficial to us, or overly hurtful to them, and prove that it's worth my money. What they'll find by not doing so and then implementing it, is a huge consumer backlash, that will harm them far more than the actual locking-out of games would cause.
by not letting me borrow/lend a game is wrong and in my eyes and cost them sales as i borrowed far cry 2, loved it so i pre-ordered far cry 3, same as with demon souls to dark souls.
Gamestop/Ebgames are a problem but this way hurts the gamers, would there be a way for Gamestop/Ebgames to pick up the tab somehow.
I highly doubt Sony will shoot themselves in the foot.
Or if they do implement it it will probably be tied to your own account so I think you will still be able to play on other consoles.
Then again this is all speculation, We won't fully know until the PS4 comes out so you guys should be hitting sony's forums letting them know rather than complaining on a forum that they probably don't read anyways.
Personally doesn't really affect me so I don't really care
What Sony is trying to do is to help the devs that are loosing (or not winning) cash each day.
This is almost a legal piracy to resell games where many stores are getting rich with this metod.
Again, it is not Sony doing this by the sake of doing it so they win more money.... it is a DEMAND from the developers that are getting robbed in a side from piracy and now as well by this " legal" piracy as I would call it for now.
If all this doesn't happen i imagine this would be a great incentive for people to upgrade to PS+ with a monthly vote on game titles.
http://kotaku.com/5879202/s...
January 2012
And each time the media goes ape crap over sony doing this but goes mum on the rumor of microsoft doing it.
How will this affect the likes of lovefilm and Blockbuster (if they still exist)?????