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Submitted by Smurf1 714d ago | news

Sony files patent for tech that suppresses second-hand game sales

Sony has filed a new patent, and it’s one that is bound to generate a lot of controversy if implemented in the PS4. (Industry, Next-Gen, PS3, Sony)

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Gimmemorebubblez  +   714d ago
Commercial Suicide...
unless they want to pull a bluff on MS and get them include it in the 720 aswell and then at the last minute turn around and say the PS4 can play second-hand games....
Smurf1  +   714d ago
It is a bit confusing why they would go with something like this.

It seems to me Microsoft may follow Sony if this tech becomes successful.
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nukeitall  +   714d ago
"It is a bit confusing why they would go with something like this."

What is confusing about this? It's all about the money even for Sony!

"It seems to me Microsoft may follow Sony if this tech becomes successful."

I wouldn't doubt it, MS is also a company, not just Sony.

What is disturbing is this is researched and thought about. I hope it isn't true, but I would most definitely avoid any console (or device) that employs such an anti-consumer scheme!
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Athonline  +   714d ago
In consoles the problem isn't piracy, it is second-hand sales, publishers and developers loose money from game rentals and second-hand sales.

A such technology, may attract more developers into implementing exclusives or add extra content to PS4 games, as it will help them increase their revenues.
SandWitch  +   714d ago | Well said
Second-hand copy restriction + twice cheaper games = OK
Second-hand copy restriction + same price games = no-no
Tvensky  +   714d ago
I would buy ps4 100%. but if I could not play games my friends have, I will consider not to buy ps4... I think this would be bad for me and for sony... I cant afford to buy new games all the time.. I am a gamer damn it......
tehpees3  +   714d ago
This tech won't become successful because consumers will give it the finger.

They are already giving the finger to Vita for memory cards. These used game restrictions are like DLC. Companies just push more and more to see what they can get away with. Eventually taking it to extremes (see Capcom).
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MikeMyers  +   714d ago
The only way this will work is if they all got together and made it universal. People will just support the PC more if this comes to consoles. The Wii U apparently has its Gamepad locked to the hardware so that you cannot have an imported Gamepad. We already see region locked games so this could be the next step.

Going to a service enabled platform is going to hinder used sales as it is. Once people get locked into things like Steam it will all be digital content that is locked to your account. That's the direction we are already headed. So anyone who has bought games like Journey are already adapting to knowing that content cannot be traded or sold (unless you bought the standalone product from the store that is now available).
Raoh  +   714d ago
"It seems to me Microsoft may follow Sony if this tech becomes successful."

Other way around. Sony is following microsoft. THe original microsoft ending used games was back in JAN 25, 2012 .

http://kotaku.com/5879202/s...

Funny how when microsoft is rumored to do this no one bats an eye, but when its out of the sony camp everyone gets the pitch forks and torches.

Its like when we talk about proprietary setups. Sony gets slammed for it, but, its microsoft with a proprietary hard drive, charging cable, online pay wall, 2.5 audio jack instead of a standard 3.5 jack for controllers etc.
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MikeMyers  +   714d ago
Oh please Raoh, anyone who spends any time here knows Microsoft is not the most liked company. The Xbox 360 did get slammed for RRoD, they did get slammed for not having a hard drive in every system, they still get slammed for Live fees, they did get slammed for not including wi-fi and how expensive the adapter was, they did get slammed about hard drive prices much like the memory cards now for Vita, they do get slammed for lack of exclusives.

Look around, there are tons of negative comments thrown their way too.

http://n4g.com/news/928071/...

Look at everyone supporting Microsoft. No one batted an eye over it either. Those 91 comments are just a mirage.
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WrAiTh Sp3cTr3  +   714d ago
Why even mention MS? Is that what you're hoping for? How pathetic! Anyway, its usually Sony who has been following MS trends not the other way around, so Sony may be alone in this escapade.
ArmrdChaos  +   714d ago
"Funny how when microsoft is rumored to do this no one bats an eye, but when its out of the sony camp everyone gets the pitch forks and torches."

The difference is the MS claim is nothing more than a rumor but in Sony's case they themselves actually filed a patent for it.
Old McGroin  +   714d ago
@ Raoh

""It seems to me Microsoft may follow Sony if this tech becomes successful."

Other way around. Sony is following microsoft. THe original microsoft ending used games was back in JAN 25, 2012 .

http://kotaku.com/5879202/s...

Funny how when microsoft is rumored to do this no one bats an eye, but when its out of the sony camp everyone gets the pitch forks and torches."

The Microsoft rumour is exactly that, a rumour. From nearly a year ago. So no, Sony isn't following Microsoft, Sony has actually filed a patent, Microsoft have not.
ThanatosDMC  +   714d ago
I'm fine with this actually since I rarely buy used nor do i borrow games... Besides publishers makes us pay for the online part anyway without lowering down the price even after their games have been in the bargain bins.

Maybe this is the final nail to Gamestop's coffin? They say new but they opened my damn game all ready!
SilentNegotiator  +   714d ago
Once again people act like every patent is going into effect tomorrow (or even at all). There's a small team at Sony that files patents all day, people. They, like the other of the big three, patent a million things that never get used.

That said, I would never buy a console that did that. I want to be able to freely use my games on anyone's system, sell them when/if I finish them and they have little replay value, etc.
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TheGamerDood  +   714d ago
I have no doubts that MS will implement the same model for Live and I have no problem with it because I believe that developers/publishers should get paid for their work.
sikbeta  +   714d ago
Just making my choice easier, going Wii-U +/or XBX3 if PS4 don't allow used games
DOMination-  +   714d ago
To Raoh: Sony originally wanted this on ps3 but clearly decided against it in the end. Look it up
cemelc  +   714d ago
"People will just support the PC more if this comes to consoles"

Pc has already this feature among other drm...why would ppl move to pc for that?.
Awesome_Gamer  +   714d ago
Not going to happen, Sony just filed the patent so they can use it if the wanted to, but they won't because it's a comercial suicide, they're not stupid.
fatstarr  +   714d ago
why would this become successful. people would just not buy it if they cant get it used. or they wouldnt upgrade.
Temporary  +   714d ago
As big a fan as I am of Sony and their Playstation brand, if they implement some sort of tech that doesnt allow me to play 2nd-hand games, I wont be purchasing it.

Nowadays when the economy is so horrible and people are looking to cut corners and spend less money, they should be looking for ways to ACCOMMODATE their customers, and not screw them over to make an extra buck.

Business is business, but greed is still greed. Shame on Sony if they utilize this on the PS4. And shame on anyone else if they follow lead.
ChrisGTR1  +   713d ago
i hope this isnt true, if it is im not buying a ps4.
CommonSense  +   713d ago
It won't become successful. They should rename the headline to "Sony files patent that suppresses my desire to buy their next console."
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CommonSense  +   713d ago
Double post..sorry
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iamnsuperman  +   714d ago
They wont do it. Unless they can get Microsoft and Nintendo to use the feature I really doubt it will be implemented. I can see this patent being one of those patents that is patented to stop others using it without paying royalties.
Ezz2013  +   714d ago
sony patent alot of things and most of them don't see the day light
Smurf1  +   714d ago
Yeah, I think they are simply patenting this to increase their portfolio. No way they are going to use it on the PS4.
Smurf1  +   714d ago
@ezz, completely agree.
HammadTheBeast  +   714d ago
I'm hoping that Sony has done this to protect us gamers from the tyranny of Microsoft, and they've blocked out the possibility of this happening.

But we all know that's not going to make them any money.
mwjw696  +   714d ago
@HammadTheOne Are you being serious right now? You think Sony gives a fuck about you? Save us from Microsoft? HAHAHAHA you are either the worst troll ever, or the most brain washed fanboy on this site! Best quote for industry ever. "Leap ignorantly to the defense of wealthy game companys, who don't know or care about you!"
HammadTheBeast  +   714d ago
It was sarcasm...actually I don't know what it was. But I wasn't being serious.
rainslacker  +   714d ago
Considering they had similar functionality built into the PS3 and never used it, it's hard to see that they would implement it now. They may leave it up to the publishers like they did with region locking, or use it for online passes.

I think what they'll find though is if they do make this standard across the board, game sales will go down, and many people may turn their backs on the hardware. Looking at the past, or even on this thread, people do not like this. To date it's only been a rumor, or a patent which lays out the groundwork, and it always receives negative reception. If they leave it up to the publishers, then I'm sure they'll be looking at how those publishers sales are affected by their decision to include it.

I do think people are a bit too quick to jump the gun on these rumors or patents, but I do believe they should voice their concern over it now, instead of after it's implemented. However, they shouldn't use it as console war stuff, and should act like adults saying how bad it would be.
dboyc310  +   714d ago
Never have bought a second hand game and I honestly think this is good. People need to stop being cheap and pay the regular price like regular people do. Don't have enough $ then stick with ios and android platform or find a new hobby. People need to understand that companies suffer from it in the long run because studios don't get any of that $. If you like the game/studio/publisher then support it.
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DarkBlood  +   714d ago
you also realize that doesnt change anything right? buying second hand or your ios suggesstion is the same thing its a 60 dollars they wont see from particular consumers in the first place

now i dont like used games for a very different reason but dont mind it all for you see what i do is wait over time for a game to go cheap or on sale these days i decided to wait on alot of games unless its a must have title for me or exceptions otherwise i will wait till they hit the 30 or 20 dollar price tag brand new

having said they still get nothing with my method im betting since im paying less for it

and i doubt most are just going to stick to a few games and thats it, not how the market works in my opinion
zerocrossing  +   714d ago
Used games don't hurt new game sales, they help, this has been said again and again and hasn't become any less of a fact.

Of course a publisher would like to see the end of second hand game sales, they want maximum profit, they don't give a damn about anything beyond that no matter who they are, Sony, MS or Nintendo.

Lucky for you who are in a position to always be able to buy new games but that sadly isn't the case for everyone, I'll buy a game new if it's from a studio I like or its an interesting original IP, but I certainly wont lose any sleep over buying second hand.
iamnsuperman  +   714d ago
@zerocrossing

"Used games don't hurt new game sales, they help, this has been said again and again and hasn't become any less of a fact."

They really do not help at all and that is a myth. Publishers do not look at total games sales (with used) because A it is impossible to get accurate used game sales and is only really done through trophy/achievements achieved. B they still do not get any money from it. Like you said publishers want to maximise profit but when a lot of their profit is taken by used games they are not going to develop a sequel. People say they buy the first game used and the second new because they like it is just rubbish. They buy used the first time they are equally as likely to buy it used the second time. So publishers just do not take the risk.

Used games keep/help retailers happy because they get a large profit margin. Not the developers or publishers.
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zerocrossing  +   714d ago
@iamnsuperman

Without used games many game retailers would be forced to close, it's been a long standing discussion in the UK with large retailers such as gamestation & CEX used as prime examples of why second games are a good thing.

Ive been buying second hand and new games as I see fit for 20+ years (like many others Im sure) and last I checked the games industry is doing pretty damn well.

As a consumer you're on the wrong side of the fence, publishers are pushing to have second hand games removed and make digital media distribution the norm, none of this helps consumers in the long run.
delboy  +   714d ago
And you never ever rent a game from or to your friends?
Music or movies also?
Hmm... Seems legit if you don't have friends :-)
Pozzle  +   714d ago
Don't blame consumers. Blame the stupid industry that is responsible for devs and publishers losing money on used-game sales. If the existence of used games is harming the industry, then something needs to be done about the industry itself. Suppressing used game sales isn't going to do anything to help sales, except turn off people who don't buy games new anyway.

(There should also be a crackdown on things like game stores opening new game packaging so that they can sell their games second-hand and receive 100% of the profit.)
DragonKnight  +   714d ago
Used games neither help nor hinder publisher profit. Retailers buy games new from the publisher, meaning said publisher already got their money. Used games help the retail stores get money, but they do not cost the publisher any money. There have been no concrete facts to prove otherwise. Even the supposed cost of servers is inaccurate as there isn't a new spot being taken, it's the same spot with a new person in it.

Used games are not a detriment to anyone. Even if you were to claim that used games prevent the orders of new copies from the retailers, the alleged cost of such a miniscule problem is negligible. The idea that publishers aren't making money because of used games is ridiculous. Used games were at one point new.
FunkMacNasty  +   714d ago
@ dboyc310
"People need to stop being cheap and pay the regular price like regular people do. Don't have enough $ then stick with ios and android platform or find a new hobby."

So either your like 12 years old and your parents buy all your games, or your really wealthy. Wake up dude. Not everyone can afford to buy games brand new at full retail price. I would also venture to say that you are completely incorrect when you say "most normal people buy games at full price".

Also, since I'm not wealthy, I'm supposed to "find a new hobby"? pshhh..

Your comment shows that you are either very young and have no concept of the real world economy and what it means to be a gamer with a full time job, a morgage, and bills, or your wealthy fat cat who lives in a mansion in The Hamptons or something.
Darrius Cole  +   714d ago | Intelligent
I am amazed at how many people are stupid enough to think it is a good thing for someone to take away their rights.

If you buy it, you own it, period.

Once I buy the game they can't tell me who to sell it to or who not to sell it to any more than I can tell them what to do with the computer they used to make the game. And the whole world works this way, these people alone think that they should be different.

Zerocrossing is right, used games help more than the hurt. you can see that with a simple math excercise.

Say that I only have $120. If I like 3 games well enough to buy them new, the entry point is $60 per game or $180, so I buy two of the games and I have $0 left, and there is still 1 game that I want. If Zero likes one of the games that I bought and but only has $30, he can't enter the new game market because it takes $60 per person. Say that Iamsuperman is in the same situation; he likes the other game that I bought but only has $30, so he can't enter the new games market either because it takes $60. So I sell one of my used games to Zero for $30 and sell the other game to Iamsuperman for $30. Now they each have the games that they want and I have $60 which I promptly go spend on the 3rd game that I wanted all along but could not afford.

Used games allow people with less money to combine those funds and spend them in a marketplace that they otherwise could not afford to spend money in. In the example above the game makers got $180 whereas they only would have gotten $120 if there was no used game market. It is frankly stupid of the game developers to attempt to kill the used games market.

What the developers should be doing is trying to enter the used game market as re-sellers. For instance they could offer to buy back their games themselves for a specified amount and put a floor under the buy-back price. Or for a different example a developer like Bethesda say "if you send us your copy of Oblivion and your original receipt we will sell you Skyrim for $30 at release day." That would by-pass the brick and mortar channel and keep some games out of the market at the same time...it would also help them retain loyal customers

However, I suspect that what we would find is that if they tried such things that they would stop because it would hurt the overall industry and the truth is that the way it is done now is the most efficient way of doing it.
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mwjw696  +   714d ago
@dboyc310 Companys suffer from used yet you want people to leave console gameing completely? We are taling about the ability to buy and sell used games not Piracy. What do you think happens when most people trade in games? They go buy MORE games with it.

@Zerocrossing http://voices.yahoo.com/thq...
You are right. Not to mention the back lash from all the gamers if the PS4 would actually do this.

@iamnsuperman WRONG! Do more research.

@Pozzle "(There should also be a crackdown on things like game stores opening new game packaging so that they can sell their games second-hand and receive 100% of the profit.) " WHAT??? No one does this... thats illegal!

@FunkMacNasty Well said good sir!

Please also remeber this not only would kill off used games this would also kill the collectors market down the road. Think of all those people that like to collect games and play them down the road. Well once a game is out of print then its done. You would have a very hard time finding them.

If Sony does this and no one else does you can kiss Sony, or at least Playstation good bye. Period. Game over man.
MerkinMax  +   714d ago
Never have bought a car used before and I honestly think this is good. People need to stop being cheap and pay regular price like regular people do. Don't have enough $ then stick to bicycles and public transportation or find a new means of transportation. People need to understand that companies suffer from it in the long run because car companies don't get any of that $. If you like cars then support their creators.

Sounds ridiculous, right!?
Godz Kastro  +   714d ago
I agree and I am not sure why people feel so entitled to re-sell a product they purchased that was created by hard working people. Its very unfair to the devs who work hard on these games. I want to see this industry thrive and if this helps then so be it
skyblue14213  +   714d ago
@dboyc

Second hand video game sales have been around since the dawn of the video game industry and second hand sales have never been mentioned to be a problem until this current console generation. Do wonder why that is? I will tell you: it is because of greed plain and simple.

It is obvious that one of the main reasons why people buy used games is because it is cheaper than new games. And common sense on the most basic level dictates that if a company wants to increase revenue & sales they need to lower their msrp for each new game for the consumer to be more able to afford it. Yet you don't ever see the big companies lower their prices for their games outright when they get released thus you won't see consumers take bigger risks in buying games especially since most of the world is in an economic recession and people are more careful than ever when spending their money on anything.

All I see & hear are companies dancing around the subject of used game sales by giving their typical line of bs as in "second hand sales hurts businesses" and they do not go beyond that in admitting the obvious reason why people buy second hand sales which is the the cost of new games are too high.

Instead of doing something about it that benefits both the consumer & business by lowering their msrp on new games to around $40 they rather almost gaurentee an eventual tremendous loss of revenue & sales by alienating their customers by putting draconian restrictions on consumer rights.

With all of the fickle dlc bs this console generation & other tactics that are used by companies to nickle & dime the consumer + the economic recession that is effecting everyone it is no wonder people are not running out to buy the latest game at the full msrp.

I own multiple different consoles & acessories + 100's & 100's of games(+ over 100 digital games also) in which I buy more new games than used games, and if used games get surpressed in any way, shape, or form I gaurentee you that I wont be investing any of my money in any gaming products that suppress or restrict used games in any way. I understand that businesses have to make money, but the escalating greed at the epidemic level that has been displayed this console generation absolutley disgusts me.

If used games were really a big problem like these companies make it out to be they would have all been out of business a long time ago instead of pissing & moaning about a nonsense minor issue at best like they are now.

If people want a draconian restrictive game industry be prepared for sky high prices to stay high for a long time like the online gaming services that the big three already provide, but it will be much worse than ever experienced(think much worse than the video game prices in austrailia) once the major companies get the ability to completely dictate prices for anything gaming related. I am not going to even get into consumer ownership rights if companies have total control.

People that support the stripping of the rights of other people in general because they think it is right according to them should be subject to what they preach since that is what they support.
hazardman  +   714d ago
I buy certain games new thru pre ordering or If I play a game that I like I dont mind buying new. That being said I know that when Im done with game I know I can sell on CL or just trade in for credit or what not. They are taking that away from us.
admiralvic  +   714d ago
There is absolutely no rational way to explain how this is or will be a "good thing".

You see, the quality of games will not rise from this choice, so I fail to see why they deserve more money for the same (or lower) quality games in the long run. Companies should be FIGHTING to make sure people justify buying the game new on day 1. If your game is good enough, then people will pick it up without even questioning it. Like when Borderlands 2 was announced, I preordered it without question and got it on release. I did the same for the season pass, which I won't be doing for Borderlands 3, since I feel like they screwed me. See how this works?

Also too many people look at it as a 1 sided issue, but it's in fact 2 sided. Yes some people don't buy or support rentals / used games, but do you keep all of your games? Since I know I always have the option to sell my games, I can always make some money back on a "bad game". There is a huge difference between risking say $20 dollars on a bad game (For instance Declassified has a MSRP for $50 and traded into Gamestop for $30, so only $20 dollars is really at risk) and risking $40 - $60.

Needless to say, this choice (if implemented) will result in people buying a LOT less (thus offsetting the loss of used game sales) and less people taking chances. A core element of plus / used game sales is to turn someone onto a series, which they might be a supporter of. If you remove that, remove the ability to get a cheap used game and give us no resale value... everything will fall apart and whatever implements it will fail.
morkendo23  +   714d ago
????? why is Sony egar to kill off ps3 games (second-hand) as brannflake said that would be SUICIDE.
Sony must have some dope-out ps4 games to replace ps2,ps3 games.

P.S.
hope ps4 dont become DIGITAL MEDIA only console that would kill off any hope.
Tei777  +   714d ago
"commercial Suicide"

lol, people are so dramatic. I really find it hard to believe that whether or not a console can play used games carries more weight then exclusives, price/hardware differences and their online services. Also this feature isn't going to be advertised on the box and I'm sure the vast majority of the 220 million owners of 7th gen systems aren't on sites like this and will be oblivious to this when they make their next gen purchase. Not only that but I'm sure used sales for popular titles (COD/ AC3) represent a tiny, tiny minority of their overall sales and I'd say thats reflective of the importance of used sales amongst mass markets.

Not only that but in UK at least, 2nd hand prices are barely cheaper than brand new ones as 90% of title are sold at retail for 80% of the RRP and that price sharply drops and with a lot titles now implementing Online Passes, the incentive to buy 2nd hand titles has already been diminished a ton. Hopefully Next gen sony and microsoft manage to build a steam like environment where downloadable titles are a much cheaper, this may console some of the guys feeling butt hurt.
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rainslacker  +   714d ago
Commercial suicide may be a bit extreme. Your right that most people aren't informed, but an action like this would eventually result in consumer backlash. To date, no form of physical entertainment media (Movies, Music, Games), unilaterally restricts second hand sales, trading, or sharing. At most there are restrictions (DRM, on-line passes, etc).

But look at the long term effects it could have. There are a lot of people, many uninformed, that trade in their games to finance their next game purchase, sometimes new game purchases. Almost without fail, I have gone into gamestop on release days and seen people trading in games to finance their next game purchase, and of a new game. Some, maybe a lot, would now not purchase those new games, and would wait for the price to come down, resulting in lower sales for publishers.

As time goes by, people begin to see less value in the games they are buying, knowing that their initial investment will never be able to be recouped in any form. This gives a negative view of the hardware itself, and they start telling others, or the lack of consumer rights gets into the mainstream media, and finally a real debate happens on what is best for the consumer.

Also at retail...which system do you think a retailer would push more? One where they can profit off second hand sales, or one where they only sell the new and that's it. If one system were to go that route, then expect it to receive very little floor space at the retailer. At every Gamestop local to me, the used section takes up about twice as much space as the new for every system. One system not having used makes it look like there are no games for it, thus lowering the perceived value of the hardware.

As far as exclusives. I think your right. But how many exclusives aren't picked up day one, and how long do publishers continue to release the same product. I'd be lucky to find a copy of Uncharted: Drakes Fortune now outside of the dual pack, and most games don't get re-released into special packs. It's even worse for some genres...like JRPG, which generally are only sold new for about a year, and then the price inflates. People who like those genres, are now either required to buy used, or pay over-inflated prices for new, and under this scenario would be even more inflated since it's the only playable version.
hazardman  +   714d ago
really because word of mouth seems to work for most products when people dont know. like when this news got out it was the topic in the several COD BO2 lobbies I was in.. and UK is not only ones selling expensive used games. I live Boston and a used game recently released @ gamestop is $55\$50 with Edge Rewards card.. either way thats not the point.

For me its companies trying to tell me what to do with my stuff. pretty soon you wont be able sell or trade yor car. or i could but i have to give you my hand cause the keys only work with my gene code....im still buying ps4/xbox3..im just saying.
Tei777  +   713d ago
@rainslacker

I didn't consider the effect at retail, thats a really good point for any shops who do make most of their money from 2nd hand sales. I do however think that any backlash will be mainly superficial, just like people complaining about online passes. Having said that I'm struggling to see what Sony or MS would gain, its seems more the agender of the 3rd party publishers. So regardless of the size of the backlash, its probably not worth them risking unless the activision's and EA's intend to reimburse them in some form

In regards to picking up games late, I think digital distribution will solve that problem. We already see it in steam with incredible value deals being offered, and older games being found for mere penny's. I'd like to think this is the direction both Sony and Microsoft will be going in with their online stores.
rainslacker  +   712d ago
DD will render this whole discussion moot. However DD is still quite a ways off for large scale worldwide implementation. Funny thing about DD though is that there is even less ownership than the currently discussed scenario of 2nd hand has. Every game purchased has a saying that you are only buying the rights to play the game, and at any time that right can be taken away from you. Every PSN download has this text, it exists for Steam, and I'm sure it's there for XBL as well. There are already a couple games removed from the PSN store, and I am unable to get the R-Type PS1 game that I bought 5 years ago on PSN. Apple takes down content from time to time as well, and there is no recourse to get your money back from those purchases because of the carefully worded buyers agreement. If, god forbid, Sony were to leave the gaming market or go out of business, there would be a lot of people without access to their content. It's an extreme case, but one that isn't outside the realm of possibility.

Basically DD is a service while physical is an actual commodity. As a commodity we have ownership of what we buy. What we're discussing would change the retail environment into a service provider, which to me is just removing choice from the marketplace, which only hurts the consumer.
#1.5.4 (Edited 712d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(0) | Report
fermcr  +   714d ago
If Microsoft and Sony use this... then I'll forget their console exists and buy a WiiU.
delboy  +   714d ago
Or steam box, even a ouya is a better choice then locked ps4.
Good luck with that Sony.
metroid32  +   713d ago
WiiU is the best console hands down i'm loving it.

Best Online/reception
MiiVerse
Blazing fast browser
Nextgen hardware/Muticore cpu/E6760 GPGPU
Video chat
NNID's no friend codes
Off TV Play
2 gamepad support
NFC tech
HD Multi-media
Amazing games in development
Dual rumble on gamepad is awesome
5.1 surround
Gamepad sound is top notch

there isn't anything to not like.
DeadlyFire  +   714d ago
Sounds more so like a revamped CD-Key system to me with DRM to assist. Most likely a way to battle pirates and give developers more control over their game content. Just like the multiplayer online pass that they sell now. Don't see much of a difference really here.
papashango  +   714d ago
Your right. However with consoles being locked to begin with there are no cracks to download. This is DRM in its perfect form.
GribbleGrunger  +   714d ago
If they implement this too early then it would be a disaster for the company. PS consoles have legs and one of the reasons is the second hand market. But ... if they can get Gaikai up and running and the price of the service is reasonable, perhaps that would offer the FULL PS library for a fraction of what you'd pay for them all second hand; a little like PS+ (or even part of PS+).
papashango  +   714d ago
Sony may have just blown off its own foot if this is implemented in PS4.

With Valve entering the market anyone that has read about or heard about the steambox has just made their decision.
schlanz  +   714d ago
most definitely commercial suicide. Consumers won't understand why this would happen and the word will spread quickly. Unless its an across the industry move it would be utterly stupid to do such a thing.

If they really want to stop second hand sales, then move to digital only.
lfclee  +   714d ago
You are so right!
JoGam  +   714d ago
If doing this keeps companies from closing down like the many who closed down this year and year before because people don't want to buy games new then so be it. I just freaking hate how so many people complain about this. They act like Game Stop makes the games. People developers needs to get paid. It cost money to make these games and the reason why some developers turn to mobile games because its a cheaper risk with potential bigger outcome where as making a game and selling it for $60 and expecting it to be successful is tough. especially when some people by new then trade in used just so some potential person who don't have the game go's and buy the game used, developers miss out. So when a developer game is being sold used, developers lose. I understand both sides of the coin. People like me who has two PS3's. How will Sony fix the ability to play one game on both systems? If they can do that, then fuck used game sales.
#1.11 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(7) | Report | Reply
"Commercial Suicide... "

Idk I think people would stop complaining after a year and move on if MS and Sony did this.

Remember when people raged about this?

“We have not seen a lot of consumer resistance at the higher price points and we expect that all of our next-generation products will be launched at $60 price points.” Bobby Kotick
http://www.ps3blog.net/2006...
And now most shut up about it.

On disk dlc Commercial Suicide? nope they sell millions. Online pass Commercial Suicide? nope. The real used game killer is gaikai but not the whole world is not ready for the cloud. I think new games should just be $40 they would sell more copies anyway. I have a friend who play uncharted 1 - 3 and loves all of them and is a ND fan! But naughty dog never got a red cent from him. Why would sony care for this person again?

There has to be two sides to the argument.

If they both stop used games what will you do? Stop playing games? You would have no choice actually.

Can everyone afford games? no.. Can sony and MS make money from used games? no.. They only want to new game buyers in the first place. From a logical perspective why should they keep gamestop in business? Unless no one will buy a console at all? People would still buy by the millions. Console gamers as far as I can tell are used to conformity.

They can take a good kick in the balls, had over money and wait for a patch.
The whole industry should just bring new games to $40 that could kill two bird with one stone. imo.
#1.12 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
darkride66  +   714d ago
Wow. Déjà vu. Back in 2006 before the PS3 released there was a similar patent filed for a system that would certify disks with a particular console so only that console could ever play that disk which would make second hand game sales, game rentals or even lending disks to friends impossible.

People lost their minds assuming it was meant for the PS3. It never saw the light of day. And here we are again. It's fun to speculate and talk about new tech patents, or rage when they do something we don't want, but how many of these patents are ever used. MS patented software that would censor live audio streams, yet we never saw that in XBL. MS patented a game system with a projector that projects images all around you. Sony patented eye tracking contact lens. Do you honestly think any of this tech is going to show up in the next gen platforms?
http://articles.latimes.com...
GribbleGrunger  +   713d ago
You're a pretty smart man, darkrider66 and from the posts I've read of yours (and there have been plenty) I still can't for the life of me understand why you have 1 bubble. It's a damn shame that intelligent voices get buried under all the nonsense on here.
#1.13.1 (Edited 713d ago ) | Agree(2) | Disagree(3) | Report
TheStorm  +   714d ago
Actually it is a smart move. Almost all the big developers are complaining and angry about second hand sales, they are losing money. If Sony is the one that does it, many companies will side with them, and make it more exclusive to them. Why? They know they will make more money because people can't second hand buy their product.

With so many devs trying to figure out how to stop second hand sales, they would applaud and support Sony for this if it is the case. And I'm sure if MS sees that, they will do the same as well.
MostJadedGamer  +   714d ago
No all they need is for the 720 to block used games to. Either both MS, and Sony will block used games or neither will block used games

It would be suicide if only one of them blocked used games. That is why either both will or neither of them will.
TheStorm  +   714d ago
Maybe, or maybe not. The thing is if Sony did this, and the devs like EA/Ubisoft who are very much against second hand sales, say: "We will only make games for Sony until MS does the same thing" Sony would have the advantage.

However, on the other hand, it could hurt Sony as much, where more buy the Next Box because they can buy second hand games. People do forget there are two consumers with consoles, the people that buy games, and the people that make games for them. They have to be attractive to both. However devs have a little more power now. So it will be interesting to see how the big devs/publishers react with something like that. They may force MS to do it by doing what I said.
ronin4life  +   714d ago
@the storm
Nope, hidden result number 1; Ubi and EA abandon ps4 for higher install base/selling rate xbox and wiiu, which consumers have jumped on.

Devs are a "consumer" as you mentioned, but they are also the slaves to their masters: GAMERS and INVESTORS. To whom they must comply.
darkziosj  +   714d ago
@the storm

No... they would lose even more money for not making multiplatform games, they cannot go and make all their games sony exclusives without anykind of deal and they release alot of games in a year, there's not logic in that.
#1.15.3 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(3) | Report
Knight_Crawler  +   714d ago
LOL Brandflakes "unless they want to pull a bluff on MS and get them include it in the 720 aswell and then at the last minute turn around and say the PS4 can play second-hand games"

Spin comment on the year - I can see Sony heads right now in a meeting planning this for MS -_-
Campy da Camper  +   714d ago
What about red box and game fly? Now the games won't work? Not gonna happen. Sony just wants to have rights to the patent.
AngelicIceDiamond  +   714d ago
But wait if Sony goes through with this insanity what would happen to your traded in games? Or if your even able to trade them in?
geddesmond  +   714d ago
And then what does this mean, that we can no longer loan a game to a Friday or play that game on a second consol if our first one breaks.
Megaton  +   714d ago
Yeah, eliminating used games like this would doom their next console. It would also eliminate rental services and simple borrowing between friends. Extremely consumer hostile.

They're already fighting an uphill battle against the Xbox. This would essentially attach a giant boulder to their ankle, making the climb nearly impossible. All Microsoft has to do is not be total jerks like Sony, and they've won.
Haha123  +   714d ago
This happens and ill boycott sony
Godz Kastro  +   714d ago
Im sorry but If MS found out Sony was doing this they would do the opposite. However I agree, if they implement this it could even turn a few hard core fans.

Be careful Sony, you are not in a position to make mistakes this next round.
#1.22 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
papashango  +   714d ago
I agree. It would be best for M$ to capitalize on this and gain even more momentum going into next-gen. I'd imagine they could take at least a third of sony's marketshare.
xtremeimport  +   714d ago
I buy new anyway...
Blaze929  +   714d ago
they day you tell me I can borrow or let my friends borrow my game is the day I stop gaming. Period. What do they think families all play on one system and buy multiple copies? $59.99 a pop is already hard enough.
Deputydon  +   714d ago
Eh. I pretty much only buy new games anyways. The online passes that nearly every game has lately is pretty much stopping me from buying used games anyways.
HG_69   713d ago | Spam
WetN00dle69  +   713d ago
TOO LATE!!! Didnt they they say that the New Xbox wont support used games. They have been saying this for a long ass while. This doesnt really bother me actually since i tend to steer clear from used titles. Cause some people out there dont know how to take care of their games properly. Ive seen a few used games that are scratched to high hell. Its as if they put the game disk between their ass cheeks and grind it.
#1.27 (Edited 713d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
IAmLee  +   713d ago
I believe they have a saying for this, it's known as 'shooting yourself in the foot.'

As much as it may help the game market overall, see it from a gamer perspective. If each game cost £40 (or more) and then you look at the preowned the version which is over half the price off, which would you choose? What if you want to game, but don't have the money to fork out £40+ every time you want to buy a game. This won't end well..
waltyftm  +   714d ago
I heard rumors about this just before the PS3 launch.
Mister_G  +   713d ago
I think this is FUD. People are trying to damage the PS4 hype before it's even been announced.

The NEXT gen war has begun :-\
PS4isKing_82  +   714d ago
Although this will be the top story of the day in a couple of hours I'm sure.
solid_warlord   714d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(8)
Rhythmattic  +   714d ago
Some thoughts.....

Can you sell a PSN or XBLA game to another party after finishing the game?

Companies stating that physical media was not required?

Just as non transferable Downloadable games move to full retail releases, why wouldnt games available on physical media?

As for Steam , I believe by law in the EU you can , however it has not been implemented.. (Yes?)

I truly believe both Sony and MS will adopt this tactic for physical media next gen...
As for me , I never sell/trade my games, so it wont really effect me.

If they do deploy this "lock out" of used games, Piracy will be very high on a hackers agenda.
#5 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(10) | Disagree(6) | Report | Reply
delboy  +   714d ago
Yes you can sell psn games, I do it all the time.
I just sell my acc with the game,and I do the same with steam games.

And yes,hackers are going to be all over it,trying to crack that silly protection.
DarthJay  +   714d ago
You're not selling the game, you're selling the account. The question was, can you take the actual downloaded game and sell just that. The answer is no, you can't.
kingeo  +   714d ago
Well if they can go all digital and cloud with Gakai in the upcoming years then why can't they do this?There is no such thing as used games on this services and still people buy them and look forward to them
Rhythmattic  +   714d ago
Totally agree...

However, there is an absolutely huge market that does not have the internet infrastructure required for full digital distro (cap and bandwidth) , thus making physical media a need...

In theory , this ID tag patent that is supposedly proposed, could possibly be the same as a season pass for MP

A fee to unlock a SP campaign?

Just putting it out there....
#6.1 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(5) | Disagree(2) | Report | Reply
Crazay  +   714d ago
You're absolutely right about the bandwidth caps and widespread broadband internet connectivity. Here in Canada, many of the ISPs have totally de-nutted the users with paltry throughput restrictions of 30GB and in some cases less for the same as what they once had with unlimited.

It's also no surprise that within a day or 2 after Netflix finally came to Canada, the big providers then instituted heavy restrictions on the users. ISPs here will nickle and dime their users any way imaginable.
phantomexe  +   714d ago
Buying used is bad but it's hard to pass up on buy 2 get 1 free sales at gamestop when you don't have alot of money. I do pick up the DLC off of psn tho. i picked up mass effect 2 used and because it was so good i pick up 3 at full price.
ravinash  +   714d ago
See, 2nd hand games can pay off for the developer in the long run.

These days I usually wait till the price drops.
There are plenty of games to keep me occupied plus plenty to download with my PSN+ account (I've got a big back log to get through.

And with the sales on steam, I don't see my self buying a new game in some time.
supremacy  +   714d ago
People panic when something like this gets mentioned in the same breath as console gaming. Yet PC has adopted such system a long time ago and if i am not mistaken no one is complaining.

Heck, the 360 should had been the first console to adapt this method of encryption, maybe then this wouldnt be much of an issue. Maybe then people would actually start shopping wisely, maybe then people would actually start appreciating their game purchases and collect more.

However as controversial as this may sound, there is a way to quiet the storm by simply pricing the games at a more reasonable price. Ofcourse this is something i dont think would be up for consideration but perhaps could work.

If history has taught us anything; is that use game sales arent really the issue, rather the times and those price tags associated with those times. Back in the snes days or even Playstation one days, this wasnt an issue, in fact it was a way to get more people heavily involved.

A shitty economic climate and a scare bag of beurocrats mixed in with more scared and therefore greedy bunch is whats really hurting not only the gaming industry but the worlds economy.

Why do android and ios games sell better? oh i dont know pricing maybe? could it be that maybe pricing has something to do with it? Why does angry birds or ignition alpha cost double or tripple on consoles than they do elsewhere? As if ads, and dlc and online passes and what have you isnt enough; we must not forget that while tripple A game development on dedicated game consoles are more costly, we also cant overlook at the fact that they also generate bigger profits due to their higher price tags. When a game breaks even it pretty much kills this conversation altogether, whats left are greens and how much of it in essex can we get so beurocrats and celeb devs can keep their lambos and jakuzzis. Isnt that righ cliffy b., kotic at activision and heads at capcom with their on disc dlcs.

This may sound premature, but my point is this is an issue that may stick around for years like the gun control one. There are just opposing views on the matter and money is the common dinominator here.
#8 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(6) | Disagree(13) | Report | Reply
2pacalypsenow  +   713d ago
Thats becasue Pc Has Perfected the digital Sales with dirt cheap PC games and sales, Consoles on the other hand are much more expensive i would never buy a digital game for $30-$40 when I can buy it Used get it on PC or borrow it for Half the price or free
supremacy  +   713d ago
But that's my point; everything on consoles always seem to cost more. Even if we are talking about the same content migrating multiple platforms.

I understand games are getting prettier and therefore more expensive to make. But the console market cripples itself with their pricing. I firmly believe that if the games were to retail cheaper more games will sell and thus a profit can be reach sooner than later.

Yes, i also do believe that extra sales can be made of what essentially becomes a used sale, its basic math really.

But this type of scheme in a way hurts the notion of sharing and lending what you rightfully bought.

Like i've said before, this is one of those debates that will go on for a while.

But honestly, if both MS and Sony go forward with this others i am sure will be incline to follow. Everything has to start somewhere no matter how difficult or controversial that start may be.

MS charges for live gold, something that to this day doesn't resonate with some. But the idea is there and the establishment is...well? established.

Whatever happens i just hope Sony doesn't get burn for this, game stop, angry hackers and those who feel entitled will likely target them.
matrixman92  +   714d ago
well, if this happens im definitely not buying the ps4...it was already bad enough that you cant gameshare anything vita related. Anyone saying to stop being cheap and pay full price, seriously grow the fuck up...maybe when your older you will understand that video games should not be a priority and people need to find them cheap somehow. Video games should never have gone above 50 dollars retail to begin with
EffectO  +   714d ago
Yes,squeezing more money out of existing consumers is the best course of action.
This will fail so hard.
nutcrackr  +   714d ago
I expected this for the next generation of consoles. Based on the number of times publishers / devs keep saying second hand sales are bad. MS and Sony would rather not have them either. If Sony jumps on (and releases a console first) then I expect MS will follow suit and lock games to specific accounts. They have already started trying to recoup some money from used sales with online passes.
#11 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(3) | Disagree(5) | Report | Reply
tigertron  +   714d ago
No pre-owned games=no buy for me.

As someone said above, it would be commercial suicide and I doubt Sony would do it, but I do see some sort of universal online pass system being implemented.
richard919  +   714d ago
To everyone saying Microsoft better not follow this tech, it's been long heavily rumored that the next Xbox will have something like this. This type of tech was actually talked about with microsoft first when 720 specs leaked a while back. I fully support this and I hope it's standard in the next wave of consoles.
kingeo  +   714d ago
Well if this sounds bad let me tell you that ps4 will probably use cloud gaming too and ps5 will be only cloud and download system.
Good luck paying 60 dollars to rent each game without never owning anything.As soon as each company pulls the plug off for the games which are get old and they aren't 'hot' anymore it's game over.
BlackWolf  +   714d ago
As I see it, if this thing gets in use, you won't be able to buy used games, right? Practically we would be forced to buy the games new, when sometimes we don't have the money to buy it brand fresh at retailers.

Well, telling people in the face "new game or GTFO" is not a nice move. I hope this patent is not implemented, but who knows, we can't see the future, for good or bad.
lazyboyblue  +   714d ago
i bet the tech is designed to be added into consoles post production. Sony will wait for a large ps4 user take up then implement via a fw update.
ronin4life  +   714d ago
That would cause an uproar six times the size of the psn hack. We are talking mass complaints, threats and sellbacks, huge drops in console sales and media backlash worse than the red ring of death.

There is NO instance that any of the big 3 could implement something like this and get away with it... especially if it makes them the lone offender.

Not that it would surprise me to see one of them attempt something like that..-.-
#16.1 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(4) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
Crazay  +   714d ago
I understand why they want to implement something like this but currently, it's not something that users are going to be OK with. The gamers will turn their back on Sony rather quickly if they were to make this a reality. What they need to do is just suck it up for the time being and then worry about what the next iteration of the marketplace will look like.

My guess is most everything will be a cloud based service and then users will be able to post their used games up on a Sony (or MS for that matter) run marketplace where users can post and sell the "Digital content/accesses" to other users for credit. This would also allow Sony and/or MS to make a second cut off these resales AND afford them the ability to send kickback to the developers.

Further to the point above, could the kickback on re-sales to developers be used as a bargaining chip for more timed exclusive/exclusive titles? Maybe. It sure would help them to offset the lack of revenue from not releasing on multiple consoles.
#17 (Edited 714d ago ) | Agree(0) | Disagree(1) | Report | Reply
NiceGuy360  +   714d ago
If either SONY or Microsoft go ahead with this, WiiU will be my only next gen game for sure.
LOL_WUT  +   714d ago
If true then Sony just made their own coffin but, since it's a patent who knows if it'll ever be implemented.
chukamachine  +   714d ago
If SONY do this with the PS4, count me out.

Many games are too expensive for a lot of people, yes there are classy games that are well worth the money.

But it is wrong to stop people getting games after time has passed getting things cheaper.
BanBrother  +   714d ago
Finally, some ammo for the 360 fanboys /s

Seriously though, I hope this does not go ahead. Surely no amount of loyalty (either xbox, ps3 etc) would make someone buy a console that treats consumers like monkey scrotom residue.
iuweiusif   714d ago | Spam
GameOn  +   714d ago
Honestly, they just need to be smart about it.
Include unlock codes for achievements/trophies, online and other features to make it actually worth while to buy new.
SpecialK  +   714d ago
Honestly if this happens, I might just steer away from consoles.

The fact is if you buy something, its your to do what you want with including selling it on. we do this with films, CD's, why is the games industry so special?

Games are expensive, and some like call of duty are breaking out of the £40 price ceiling now to £42-£45.

It may not seem like much, but if everyone follows suit what will prices be next gen????
Honest_gamer  +   714d ago
wish i stayed where you do, my local INDEPENDENT game show was selling standard cod for £65, why? because people would go out and buy it and they did, i drove past the shop and the cue was out of the door, this is the only game shop in my town, so if i want to go somewhere else it's £20 deasil to get to the closes city for some game shops, by then it would have cost the same :/ what i really dont like is how most new psn games are £50 :/ thought downlaodable games where to make it cheaper
SpecialK  +   714d ago
That's insane.

The problem is its not just us that suffer, its the independent stores and even chain stores. Look at game, I used to have 2 game stores and a Gamestation in a medium size town.

Now though there is just one game store, because online retailers and supermarkets are undercutting them so much. When the latest game is available in a supermarket for £25 other stores really suffer.

My guess is that supermarkets can take the low profit margins to get people in their stores, whilst specialist stores just arnt in the position to do so. I honestly cant remember when I last bought a game in a Game or Gamestation, the prices are just too high and I reckon a lot of people would agree with me.

All it means really is that indie games will continue to thrive, and the only true console titles that can survive will be the likes of fifa, COD and the like, and will end up just like our film industry where 90% of the big hitters are all films on their 10th sequel.

Call of Duty 12, Fifa 2016, Battlefield 5, Halo 8. Is that what people want?
violents  +   714d ago
Why not just lobby governments and have laws made that require used game retailors to pay a percentage to the respective platform/dev, like a royalty. Then consumers dont feel slighted and everyone gets paid.
momthemeatloaf   714d ago | Trolling | show | Replies(1)
iistuii  +   714d ago
I have this now, it's called Steam. Just be careful you purchase a game that's not pants or await the sales, as your stuck with it, easy. I will just be pleased that it will put a stop to the game stores who are ripping kids off by giving them ridiculous trade in prices. You take a game in you've finished, they give you £10 for it on a trade in, then put it up for sale at £25 it'll be nice to see these gone for good.
ajax17  +   714d ago
It wouldn't affect me at all. I've never bought a used game in my life.
GraveLord  +   714d ago
They're just covering their bases. Most patents filed never see the light of day.
trouble_bubble  +   714d ago
This. You know how many patents these companies have filed just for the sake of filing?

It's all a moot point, since the industry is going more and more digital and will eventually be overtaken. When's the last time you traded in an XBLA digital download to Gamestop, or bought a Steam download used from 7-11? Umm, never? exactly. What's a used 0100001001011 look like?
tiffac008  +   714d ago
Well this patent should definitely stay that way. We won't even be able to borrow games from our real life friends if this gets implemented.
Shawtymann  +   714d ago
if possible they should go after the retailers who sale the second hand items and try to squeeze revenue from them instead
VonBraunschweigg  +   714d ago
Stupid language for a stupid idea. If I can't sell a game I'll think twice before buying it, so I will probably buy less new games, only the games I know that will be worth it. No more oh what the hell just buy it...
I bought quite a few disapointing games over the years and I was always glad I could sell them on eBay. More than often the money was used to buy new games, usually day one so new out of the store. That will also stop. And finally, less people will buy the console if they can't re-sell the games, hence less overall sales of games.

Just a patent, but stupid imo. Not gonna happen I hope.
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