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Will you be Satisfied with 30 Frames per Second on the PS4 & Xbox 720?

By Furious Francis, editor in chief

A rumored leak of the PlayStation 4 dev kits lead many to believe Sony would be targeting 1080p 60 FPS in 3D gameplay for the PS4. However, in that same leak the supposed specs didn’t quite match up to that quality. While 1080p 60 FPS could still be possibility, more information has come from id Software Developer John Carmack saying that most games will still be at 30FPS next generation, “Unfortunately, I can pretty much guarantee that a lot of next-gen games will still target 30 fps.” If John Carmack says it, I believe him. Plus, he’s one of the few developers that actually made 60 FPS happen this generation with RAGE and Doom 3 BFG Edition. We want to know what the gamers want? 30 FPS with better graphics, or 60 FPS with lower quality graphics? Please put your comments below.

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wishingW3L1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

not on fighting games, hack & slash nor racing games but everything else fine....

Abash1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

30fps sometimes contributes to the cinematic feel of certain games, like I just cant imagine Uncharted 4 running in 60fps like I cant imagine a major blockbuster movie being shot with a news camera. So Im fine with those types of games staying 60fps

Ravenor1314d ago

Framerates in video games can't be equated to film/camera filming techniques. A game running at 60FPS doesn't differ visually from a game running at 30FPS. In motion one just looks smoother than the other, there is no stylistic or artistic difference between the two.

ABizzel11314d ago

It all depends on the final specs. and what the devs. want to do with their game. If a dev. wants Ultra settings on a game then it may very well be 1080p @ 30fps depending on the GPU. If Sony / MS demand mid settings then it may very 1080p @ 60fps for all games.

It also depends on the type of AA games use. 2xMSAA - 4xMSAA will drain fps, while FXAA will keep fps high.

I nor, you, nor Carmack truly know what to expect, because while there are rumored dev kits out there, nothing is final until launch day.

crxss1314d ago

30 fps would be acceptable for some genres. but they would have to tell us the reasoning behind it

deadpoole1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

If 30fps is what next gen going to offer then ... I believe there is no need for it because current gen is doing just fine in that department.

Next gen has to be 60fps in every genre be that racing/fighting/tps/fps/etc because it offers visual fluidity and immersion level ... which 30fps simply can't offer.

I'd rather play game with less filters/sfx/etc and consistent 60fps than everything turned on and only offering 25 - 30 fps.

Just wanna add ... I simply don't care about 3D ... it is something that came out too early without a proper solution.

Hydrolex1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

35 solid 1080p is a good spot

deadpoole1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

Nowdays, console industry is all over motion controls and what not. Can the next gen please make an attempt to offer the basic required feature which should've been there from beginning

.... HeadTracking (such as Track IR) ....

Playing BF3 in hardcore mode with no headtracking support literally ruins the gameplay experience. Same goes for Gran Turismo 5 ... :)

I've attached video for those who have very little to no information about HeadTracking, it'll show what headtracking is all about.

There are two videos ...
One is Embedded, others links Im putting over here.
http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Plagasx1314d ago

Well Uncharted 3 looks f-ing beautiful at 60fps...so...

http://www.eurogamer.net/ar...

bakasora1314d ago

If it stays at a steady 30fps, no dropping at all.

360ICE1314d ago

There is definitely both stylistic and artistic differences in choice of frame rate even in games. If anyone has seen the Hobbit in 48fps, it feels completely different. Almost like it's not a movie at all. So if you're aiming for a traditional movie feel, then 30 fps could be a specific choice.

But developers rarely choose to limit frame rate, if they can keep the game stable on higher frame rates.

RonRico1314d ago

More frames the better on video games.

AntBoogy901313d ago

@deadpoole

Well, when you think about it.. consoles have to be pushed. New and better hardware will only mean the same thing that happened this generation.. most games will probably be 30fps because the console has to be future-proof. It'd be pretty hard to keep a game running at 60fps when technology keeps advancing for PC gamers. 30fps games that look phenomenal on console is fine with me. As long as the graphics are good, i'm not too worried about framerate.. i'll worry about framerate with my PC games.

DragonKnight1313d ago

Wasn't RAGE one of the worst games of this gen? And people still believe what Carmack says?

y0haN1313d ago

Ravenor you need to play GTA Vice City on PC with the frame limit off, those early GTA games look so, so wrong at a high frame rate for some reason.

bozebo1313d ago (Edited 1313d ago )

30fps is good if the input is smooth and there is minimal delay. Due to multithreading, doubling the FPS halves the input delay - but for most console games, there isn't too much delay at 30fps. The real issues come when the machine can't keep the frame rate up, that jitter can totally ruin the experience. Not only that, but the rendering frame rate is usually independent from other 'frame rates' within a game engine. For example the logic in an RPG may be computed at 10fps, while the input sampled at 30fps, and the rendering done at 60fps - performance issues are most likely to cause a cut in rendering frame rate, because the GPU shaders are typically very heavily loaded (not to mention RAM). In fast-paced games, dips in performance ruin a lot of things - such as spray control in FPSs or steering/breaking in racing games, the simulation must be preserved. It isn't just what you see on screen that changes, your input has a different effect on the game due to performance. Heavily mathematical things like physics and AI are less likely to break due to irregular frame rates, though they can and do (usually due to slightly shoddy programming, not that it's easy).

It's not just about what it looks like on the display. In which case, 60fps is ALWAYS better than 30fps for games. It's not a film camera, no cinematographic effect is gained by using a lower frame rate. For games that people prefer to play above 60, like Counter Strike (rock solid 101fps is the best), it's due to how the game receives and deals with user input - nothing to do with the visuals.

RedSky1313d ago

With most opinions here coming from kid gamers who's mommy got them a *insert PS3 or 360 here* and don't know what 60 FPS looks like, I'm sure we'll get an impartial opinion.

+ Show (12) more repliesLast reply 1313d ago
jujubee881314d ago

Everyone forgets about the music rhythm genre! >:O

That genre died (or at least was partially monopolized by "Guitar Hero") when the ps3/360 consoles and new (slow refresh rate) TV's came in. No fault of their own, but it was sad that the days of DDR came and went.

I hope the Sony Visor thing takes off, becomes around $100 bucks a pop and I also hope that technology gets a greater refresh rate than what TV's have now.

Also, if you think horror genre video games are scary now imagine playing them with the Sony Visor thing ...

http://www.youtube.com/watc...

YOU WILL POOP YOUR PANTS CRYING, BRO!

showtimefolks1314d ago

Both ps3 and Next Xbox will be doing 60FPS. Seriously think about the logic. Ms and Sony are not gonna release new systems till what 2019-2020? So will 30FPS be ok by 2015-2016?

If anything either can learn ts to make console a little bit future proof, I know it's hard to do with a $400 price tag but maybe they can take a little loss on a system in return for bigger sales and make more down the road.

But maybe I am wrong and these systems will be able to o ly do 30fps

Some games need 60FPS and some are good with 30. Insomniac have gone to 30FPS for all their games in exchange for better performance overall. So a little give or take in some way

vallencer1314d ago

Not too sure where 2020 is coming from but ok.

WiigotU1314d ago

He's not saying the consoles aren't capable but more so the developers making games that run at that.

TopDudeMan1314d ago

Games are totally playable at 30FPS. When I'm on my pc, though, I tend to want at least 60fps because my monitor is 60Hz.

MoveTheGlow1314d ago

Okay, look. We old-school, faithful and hardcore gamers know how great something can be running at 60fps. Those wonderful people had a much more compelling argument against Ninja Theory taking over DmC than "Dante looks different." We know... but your average Joe doesn't. What companies will want is something that looks great in an advertisement, cutscene-like stuff to sell that game over another one. Unfortunately, 60fps isn't really a selling point for that crowd.

I want stuff running at 60 as much as possible, but let's face it - when it comes to the big guys analyzing what the average gamer wants, and delivering on that, they aren't going to care.

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1314d ago
Lior1314d ago

I just got a really good pc with a gtx 680 and I'm hitting over 70fps on ultra on bf3, I went back on ps3 and played bf3 and my head actually was hurting from how bad the game ran.

Reverent1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

Oh come now, I play BF3 on my PS3 all the time. It's perfectly fine. You PC gamers have such high standards (nothing wrong with that but still, lol).

dirthurts1314d ago

I have to agree on Lior on this one.
If you've been gaming at 60fps for a long long time (like myself) going back to 30 can and does induce a headache. It's almost like playing a slide show. It's not bad if you're used to it, but it takes some adapting.
Imagine watching a movie at 12fps instead of 24.
Same difference.

R6ex1314d ago

That's the same reason I got a GTX 670 PC too. I get nausea with the slow framerate of games like Gears of War and Half-Life etc.

tee_bag2421314d ago

Agreed, I started playing Borderlands 2 on PC at 60+fps then moved over to Xbox to play with some friends. It literally gave me a headache.
If console games aren't going to aim for 60fps next gen ill be very disappointed.

cyguration1314d ago

Not to keep beating the same drum, but it's the same for me as well.

After switching to PC gaming and playing games at 60+ FPS, it's literally headache inducing going back to the 30 (and during firefights, 25)fps or when things get really heavy the 15fps on console games.

Gears of War, Halo and Uncharted are some of the biggest culprits of barely maintaining 30fps and it's a serious strain on the eyes.

If next-gen consoles don't do 60fps I'll just stick with PC gaming because it's not worth getting a headache just to play an exclusive title.

Reverent1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

Well I can see I'm the minority then. I love gaming on my PC and everything too, but as it is more in the medium build range, I'm usually stuck around 30-40Fps when gaming on it so I guess I just haven't gotten used to it yet:/

(For the record, I agreed with all of you guys, I don't know who gave you all the one disagree. Just wanted to point that out lol.)

PurpHerbison1313d ago

After going on a PC binge, I tried to go back and play Dark Souls on PS3 and I was indeed getting a headache from the poor frame rate.

+ Show (4) more repliesLast reply 1313d ago
cannon88001314d ago

This is something that we do not have power over. It's completely the developer's choice. But since we're talking about frame rates, we're obviously stepping into the graphics category more than the cpu. So it all depends on how much developers are willing to invest on their game engines and whether or not it takes great advantage of all the consoles' attributes. And if it does take advantage of it all, is it using each part to it's fullest and is it optimized? Optimization is the most important word a developer will ever hear because there's not a single developer,programmer out there that wants his/her game to run poorly on a certain console. Think of it as a v8 engine from the 1950's and a v8 from now.

tee_bag2421314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

While I agree that optimization plays a large factor, decent hardware is still needed.
Lets use you're engine metaphore. Optimization is more so about tuning. If you were to tune a 1950's engine today it would likely perform better. But if you were to use better hardware you'd see much bigger gains.

cannon88001314d ago

I understand and yes better hardware is a given. Next gen consoles better have some decent hardware.

metroid321314d ago

Wiiu is said by Randy Pitchford to be able to do 60fps very easy indeed poor 720/ps3.

Lior1314d ago

Let him actually prove it. That guy is all talk.

dirthurts1313d ago

Easily achievable yes, but at what graphical costs/reductions?

ATi_Elite1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

1600p 60+ fps Ultra Graphic settings 4xSSAA 8xAF.....I can careless about 3D but with 3D on 45 to 60 does the trick!!!

So i would expect Next Gen consoles to achieve this but we have to remember that consoles have a WATTAGE cap unlike PC's that have 1000 watt PSU's and unlimited power!

So I would say scrap 3D, use FXAA and get as close to 60 fps @ 1080p with Ultra Graphics as you can. 60 fps is FRIGGIN Butter and makes a huge difference over 30 fps.

I have 3D and after a few minutes it's really not all that great plus I don't like playing with glasses on....I'm more impressed By Nvidia Physx than 3D. No word on that nice feature for Next Gen consoles especially seeing how AMD is doing the GPU's but I'm sure Devs have nice tricks up their sleeves!

Even with power efficient GPU's the wattage cap is still an issue but Devs will still find ways to get the most outta the Next Gen consoles plus they can pick and choose 30 or 60 fps depending on the game and maybe drop down to 720p to achieve 60fps if needed.

With No hard system facts we just have to wait and see!!

tee_bag2421314d ago

Spot on. The wattage cap is something people should look at to get an idea of the upcoming specs.
Based on previous consoles, I'm thinking its going to be around 200watt with a 7xxx series mobility based GPU (if we're lucky), which is already around 100w on its own. If we are really lucky it will be based on a high end 8xxxM series but I'm having my doubts if we're looking at a $399 launch price.

shutUpAndTakeMyMoney1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

If consoles are weak PC will grow even more! Plus steam box(if upgrade-able) = perfect timing.

Consoles getting owned. Still want a ps4 next my pc though..

Eyeco1314d ago

I guess so, the sad reality is most console games this gen can barely handle 30 fps in basic HD, 60 fps in 1080p as a standard for consoles next gen seems like a huge hurdle to jump, so I honestly don't get why people would say that. So yes 30fps is dine so long as it's a standard thats maintained.

GraveLord1314d ago

Online multiplayer games need to be 60FPS as well. We need that responsiveness.

akaakaaka1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

4k will be 30fps most games
1080p 3d runs on 60fps
why is that hard to understand?

i will like he option t run the game in 1080p at 60fps or 4k at 30fps on consoles and that will let players deside what they want, ultra quality or 1080p at 60fps..

i will take 4k with stable min of 30fps (on heavy areas) any day if it helps for better visuals and etc
over low quality visuals running at 60fps..

tee_bag2421314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

Sorry to be that guy but:

You asked "1080p 3d runs on 60fps
why is that hard to understand?"

because you dont understand something...read on

HDMI 1.4a which is on 99% of TV's has a limited bandwidth.
A HDMI port doesn't have bandwidth to do 1080p3D @ 60fps.
It can do 720p 3D @ 60 fps or 1080p3D @ 24 fps max.
You need Dual Mini Display Port out+in to get 1080p3D @ 60fps which TV's don't have.

So unless everyone who buys a console next gen also wants to buy a monitor with Dual Mini Display Port in or a TV with Dual Mini Display Port which doesn't yet exist. It aint gonna happen !

dirthurts1313d ago

Too bad 4k isn't going to happen for at least another console generation, if then.

ZoyosJD1313d ago

@tee bag,

it may require the adoption of a new standard but a single standard displayport cable has over twice the bandwith of hdmi. dont know why you keep mentioning the dual mini.

anyway if someone goes out of their way to support 4k or 3d at whatever price the display costs, using a new cable shouldnt be a problem and im sure the displays will support it when it is reasonable as most moniters with that resolution already do.

in a year 4k could be well within reason, in two we could see 4k at 60fps.

SilentNegotiator1314d ago

If it's a consistent 30fps, I'm fine with it.

Daves1313d ago

I agree to be honest, a rock solid 30fps and we should not be able to tell the difference.

Which is why 24 fps for movies is standard. Having said that, The Hobbit is one of the upcoming productions that will make use of the 48p frame rate. (wikipedia)

geddesmond1313d ago

Sony can bring us hardware that could handle 60fps but at the end of the day its all down to what the developers can make work and with Wii U, Xbox 720 and PS4 most 3rd party multiplat devs will make games to suit all 3 consols so if PS4 can handle it that wont happen if Xbox 720 and Wii U (depending on its support) can't handle it.

Anyway John C s a butthurt dev thats mad Rage ran at 60fps AND FLOPPED. He boasted so much about rage running ay 60 fps until it flopped and now hes questioning the whole 60fps crap.

PurpHerbison1313d ago

Nobody should accept 30 FPS next gen. Nobody.

bozebo1313d ago (Edited 1313d ago )

It's going to happen (marketing and business dictates this), there will probably be more 60fps games than this gen though. Most of the big titles will be 30fps and especially towards the end of the generation.

PurpHerbison1313d ago (Edited 1313d ago )

I just don't understand why anyone would want a gimped experience. It's time gamers get the performance they deserve... PC will be waiting.

+ Show (10) more repliesLast reply 1313d ago
konnerbllb1314d ago

I won't be completely satisfied unless games run at 60 fps.

Blank1314d ago

I respect people that think they arent satisfied unless the games is 60 fps and I dont blame you i love that smoothness and extra tight response but sadly in this gen where we are having every game at 60 fps isnt possible unless optimization to achieve is an option we should b thankful they dont downscale the depths of the games we play having a longer gaming gen is both a gift and a curse with the gift is that we most gamers this late should or could be a tri console owner with a good portion being a dual console owner with the high odds of having both the ps3 and 360 we dont need a new console but the bad is that it lowers the chances of 60 fps games but at least we will see when next gen is hitting should E3 be a good indication where the industry is heading but for now lets enjoy the games 30 or 60 fos just be happuy that they either continue your favorite franchise in some respectable form or a brand trend setting IP! Just appreciate our hobby is growing!

yaz2881314d ago

until then I will always stick with the pc for multi games..

GreenRanger1314d ago

My toaster does 30 FPS, ffs.
1080p 60 FPS or GTFO.

Theyellowflash301314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

You might be GTFO if Carmack is right. Good thing you can just get a PC if you want 60FPS

THC CELL1314d ago

News coming from a man who hyped up rage

QuantumWake1314d ago (Edited 1314d ago )

@THC CELL

Not just any "man". Carmack is the most well known programmer in the industry. I'd definitely take his word for it. Sure RAGE had its problems on consoles, but it doesn't take away what he has done in his career.

torchic1314d ago

I agree with THE CELL

Rage was nothing special, 60fps or not. if it were Crytek, Naughty Dog or even 4A developers saying this then yeah I'd take it more seriously.

Carmack is an industry veteran but his studio has not done anything special in years.

Blank1314d ago

@Thc Cell the man that hyped up rage or not you can not discredit his influence and contribution to gaming im not saying rage was a disappointment because people did enjoy it but it was not to what the majority expected from john carmack due to his influence and contribution to gaming oh well! Im still going to have an open mind since his mind is not to copy cod he wants his type of gameplay im awaiting his next game its john carmack plain and simple

@torchic

My comment to thc cell goes to you too but I want to add sure his dev team hasnt done any awesome games but in a technical perspective they are trying more than what most want between multiplat dev teams but since john carmack is at the helm im sure he will straighten things out just know this I personally am supporting carmack and his efforts in making the gaming industry go forward

SegataShanshiro1314d ago

Sorry but Carmack is history, last good game he made was in 1995 and that was quake...he knows nothing about new gens and rage proves that

HardCover1313d ago

LOL

Carmack actually works in the industry. Regardless of your opinion of his recent work, he's actually doing this sort of stuff for a living.

He has a better perspective than any random kid who simply knows how to put together a PC and install some mods.

+ Show (3) more repliesLast reply 1313d ago
FanMan1314d ago

majority of games wont do 60fps

metroid321314d ago

Retro Studio's has a big WiiU game i bet that game looks better than any game before it even pc and it will be 60fps end of so will Beyonetta2 Ha. not to mention Moonlith soft's game

Qrphe1314d ago

We'll probably see 30fps again for the same reason that Toy Story 1, 2 and 3 took around the same amount of time to render even with the huge advancements of power in the computers they were produced on, developers will give priority to lighting, physics, draw distance, ect over framerate.

Ravenor1314d ago

One day people will realize that higher framerates aren't something that a hardware manufacturer can force upon developers.

Every game that runs at 60FPS on todays consoles cut something down (the things Qrphe listed.) to make that happen. Naughty Dog absolutely could have shot for 60FPS average in Uncharted, the games just wouldn't have looked half as good as it does with a 30FPS average. They chose to prioritize the lighting, physics and other technical wizardry over 60FPS.

Smashbro291314d ago

Unless it's an artistic choice, I only wanna see 60FPS.