Scott Steinberg, Sony Computer Entertainment America's VP of product marketing, has told GamesIndustry.biz that he believes the PlayStation 3 is the smart choice for any small developer wanting to get their games to an online audience.
I just would like to see a one or two man team develop a game for the PS3 without Sony coming in with massive support like everyday shooter. The PS3 is just to complicated for one person to make games on by themselves. I guess when he says small developer he means studios of 20 or more people.
ever seen everyday shooter on the PSN, thats what they want. and look how that game turned out very popular, go figure.
They just released the free PhyreEngine which makes ps3 development a whole lot easier from what I heard.
Everyday Shooter was made by one person, and he said that we didn't have much experience with OpenGL(3D Rending API). I don't see why anyone else could not.
I always get a kick out of articles like "Sony employee says PS3 rules", but besides that, this article is fully of crappy misconceptions by Steinberg.
'Steinberg pointed to the section of the talk from Chris Satchell on the XNA platform, and explained: "it was interesting in the sense that what they were talking about we've sort of been doing for the last couple of years with PSN and giving smaller, start-up, entrepreneurial developers the chance to get in and make their games available on the PSN."'
This is bull. The new XNA stuff is signicantly different than anything on PSN. Or have amateur developers been able to download a Sony toolset with lots of examples and documentation and publish their game to PSN for peer review for only $99 a year?
Say what you will about Sony/Microsoft and PS3/360, but Microsoft and the 360 are significantly more welcoming to smaller, independent developers. To prove me wrong, please point me to a Sony developer site along the lines of http://creators.xna.com/.
'"We don't charge for our online service," he said. "We make it available for everybody. So, the accessibility of somebody's content who decides to make a game that is maybe smaller, more affordable for consumers to buy – I think we're a better choice because the PS3 owner has the ability to go online day one without having to cut a check.'
Once again - misleading. XBLA games are downloadable to anyone who has a Silver membership. You only have to pay if you want to play online, but based on this statement, you wouldn't think that.
That's an online service only and you don't have to pay is also a factor. XBOX 360 doesn't have an online community the PlayStation 3 where advertising a game is much easier. So if someone is wearing a T-Shirt (Heavy Rain: The Origami Killer) that would be advertising the game.
wow this article is news! a sony rep saying a sony system is the best at everything!!
Like they would say anything else. I am not flaming the ps3, all sales reps are the same. But is it really necessary to post it, i mean.. is it really news? If you find a 3rd party saying how great an superior the ps3 is, then post that.. thats news. But a rep? give me a break.
I understand what he's saying but wouldn't the 360 still be a better choice considering you have people already used to buying buttloads of crap (gamer pics, themes, movies, xbla games, music videos) and a much larger user base with 10 million+ on Live. People like PSN because it's free and you don't need a credit card, I'm hesitant to see how people other people on PSN react to spending money other than the hardcore crowd that willingly give their surport because they know games cost money to make.
Every company will say their product is the best the question is are they lying? So with a post like this you have to ask yourself is he telling the truth? In my opinion I think Microsoft lies about most things, Nintendo is a hit and miss, and Sony straight out tells the truth. Almost to the point that people take their comments personally which is kind of funny.
Well put Silellak, putting the facts straight!
hehe yeah right... before you can attempt to make a game on the PS3 you first need to license the PS3 SDK.
"The package now costs $10,250 in the US, 950,000 yen in Japan, and 7,500 euros in Europe."
that's only for the ability to try to make a game... then you have to hire lots of talent... and let me guess.. if some companies with a lot more resources, people had and are having problem making games a small developer will?
I hope by small they are not talking about a starting studio...
ohh and yeah.. that's not counting the cost of other engines like Unreal Engine license fees....
with xbox 360 anyone can download the xbox for free, use it as a prototype to show their games.... while using tools that will be familiar when they buy the xbox 360 license SDK. Which is way way cheaper than the PS3 SDK...
ohh yeah and don't forget that buying the SDK does not mean your are a license developer that can publish games... you have to become a license developer... or your game goes no where...
1 person. http://blog.us.playstation.... Look, I didn't even have to type a wall to get my point across. hehe
Everyday Shooter. Yes one guy made one game amazing. Lets see compair that to the comunity around XNA or even the cheap factor of WiiWare. How is one game closly resembling what XNA already has done?
Does PhyreEngine require a dev kit?
Yes it still requires a dev kit to get it running on the PS3, the engine is basicly a conversion tool for getting a game you made on PC to work on the PS3. For example dirt was made using this engine on PC then ported to both 360 and PS3 and turned out extremely well on both.
Considering the Ps3 is a nightmare to develop for i find it very hard to belive bedroom coders will warm to it. This sounds like a comeback at xbox's XBLA/XNA.
XNX is much easy and cheaper to develop for and the games are there now, i have 8 on my drive as i write this.
PS3 is a great machine but for small teams of coders its pratically out of reach.
"Considering the Ps3 is a nightmare to develop for" LOL! Do everyone a favor and go away.
candystop, reported. Keep the fanboy garbage out of the good forum.
"smaller, start-up, entrepreneurial developers" does not equal "Bedroom coders" nor does it mean "one or two man teams." They mean for "smaller, start-up, entrepreneurial developers" attempting to really get a foothold into the industry.
Don't think for a second that he's not a marketable force in the development industry now.
I don't think Sony is talking about amateurs and more so small companies that need to be noticed. Like for example third party developers who don't have a whole lot of money in advertising they can make t-shirts for "PlayStation Home" to users. You can get free content from games when you purchase the game or when you get an accomplishment. Since the online is free people will be able to see it without paying up for online. With that said for people are able to notice the company and their games. XBOX 360 only people who pay for the service will be able to go online with multi-player battles. In the matter of speaking for developing for the platform (PlayStation 3) isn't that hard. You can actually get away with crappy coding on the PlayStation 3 and it'll figure it out for you.
>In the matter of speaking for developing for the platform (PlayStation >3) isn't that hard. You can actually get away with crappy coding on the >PlayStation 3 and it'll figure it out for you. Spoken like a true connoisseur, of doing development on a C++ based multicore asymmetric system.
Official reply: Microsoft and nintendo claim that xbla and wiiware are the best places for small devs...
Of course he thinks. He works for Sony and thinks the PS3 is best for everything. I agree with him. The PS3 is the best choice for small devs...with all the time in the world and endlessly deep pockets. Multiplatform games this far prove him wrong.
ps3 really is the best platform PERIOD now that blu ray won. i still love my 360 though
ha so says Sony.... rrrrright
you beat me too it! Major dev houses are still complaining a year after it's release that it's a total pain to code for and small dev's are just supposed to be able to pick it up?? LOL!
This is nothing but damage control by Sony because of MS's big XNA push which has got a lot of people excited right now.
ever heard of everday shooter. stop the spinning.
BTW turds http://blog.us.playstation.... get some faqs before you spin round and round
what facts he's just showing pics of his ps3 and stuff. One game vs. a whole community on XNA vs a cheaper and well know architect on WiiWare. The facts don't lie and right now for indie devs the PS3 is the biggest obstacle
But don't get me wrong I love Everyday Shooter but Blast Factor is the best even better than that Super Stardust bleh
what blast factor is just an appetizer in preparation for the greatness that is SSHD
I think that's what the majority feels but in my opinion Blast Factor was better ^^
I like Everyday Shooter a lot but it really is a single player only game. Doesn't even have a leader board and co-op, but I guess not really needed. It has a great soundtrack too.
Except for the PS3, Sony is providing a free cross-platform engine that allows developers to start development on the PS3 and eventually even be able to port it to the 360. I don't see MS doing something this generous with XNA. And Sony developers seem more willing to share and help each other, taking for example Naughty Dog and Insomniac.
I won't even go into detail but could somone please tell me how many people it took to make Everyday Shooter for the PSN?
it took one man. now everyone go away, stop spinning in the "no spin zone"
there is no spin! You are making to big a deal out of one game one guy created vs a chunk of games people have made on XNA. Wow talk about holding on to a thread! I'm not nocking the PS3 I'm nocking your reasoning.
Everyone is making it seem like you need an army of dev geniuses to make a PS3/PSN game. Everyday Shooter easily debunks these claims. I'm not saying "PS3 is teh best system for small devs". I'm responding to the kids that think its not a possible task.
Riotsquad I see what you're saying. Yeah it's silly to say an indie cannot make a game on a platform
Hey Packet wrong Zone here
lol i got disagrees for showing facts.
without great support from sony,[like1st-party gets] small devs do not have the time, money and man hours to devote to the ps3 with it's cell architecture. especially when sdk are like 30grand for 1 programmer. if this was about the wii then sure.. the way i see it, but its sony so yeah
Amazing, how does sony expect smaller devs to grasp the waitstation if the big ones have so much trouble.
idiot he meant small games for the PSN, just like Jonathan Mak (a one-man developer) decided to put his game (Everyday Shooter) exclusively for the PSN why? the PSN has no size limit, unlike the XBLA that limits devs to 150mb for each game
With that engine they were talking about it sounds somewhat right.. Dunno if it's better than XNA though.
in all honesty, MS and Sony both give substantial amount of support for each development team. The releases of PhyreEngine by Sony and Nocturnal Initiative by Insomniac helps with the coding for the Cell architecture. If developers had trouble developing for ps3 before, then these are just logical steps that Sony is taking towards answering that, so they have less to conmplain about.
looks like the VP of marketing is doing his job
Ah, ain't competition grand?
I like the fact Sony and MS are kept on their toes by one another. You can just see in their interviews and speeches how they are trying to one up each other... that can only make things better for consumers. Imagine if MS called it quits after the first XBox. '08 probably wouldn't be the great year for games that it is shaping up to be.
Yeah, I know Nintendo is still kicking the pants off everybody, but I think it is understood that they are running in a parallel universe to Sony/MS and drawing a different type of crowd. As much as Sony/MS say they have casual games too, it is just a footnote to the hardcore crowd. The Wii was meant to be a casual machine.
Small devs will easily starve to death cuz of long tedious learning curve and below avg returns.
Hmm I guess thats why jonathan mak is instantly famous and instantly wealthy? With phyre any home brew developer can develop on a pc and "cook" the code to run on the ps3. Think before you speak my friend.
And how can you prove Mr.VP? With one game? Politicians and marketing people talk out of their azzes.
It seems like this is the next big frontier for MS and Sony, getting the independent, small developers to put their new IPs on their network. Unique content is what will separate each console, and give it another bullet point against the competition. I believe that MS's policy of A) Capping the size of these games and B) Rumors of them cutting the royalties these small devs receive, will work to making PSN the place to go for small developers. Every day we hear of Sony increasing the amount of tools they have available for these devs, and as we have seen in Sony's GDC this year, they are really focused on making the process of QA as painless as possible to allow developers to get their product out and begin to make money. It must be said that overall this focus is very interesting for both consoles, and I can't wait to see what develops as I am a big fan of new and innovative IPs. May the best console win I guess.
what do you people think he is going to say? Do you think he would say it is better to use a 360 with the new open agenda for amature/indie devs or his own system he is touting? Common sense people.
submitting content for Xbox Live, his claim does make sense. Epic Games isn't even allowed to release community-created multiplayer maps on Live. While XNA definitely has an easier startup process for game development, PSN is a much easier marketplace with fewer restrictions.
The release of the PhyreEngine PC-to-PS3 recompiler reduces PS3 development from $10,000 to around $1200, which is a great start. XNA is obviously cheaper, but we've seen numerous titles from small development teams for PSN since 2006 and zero XNA titles on Xbox Live (with future plans barely presented at this year's GDC).
and now indie devs are to program for it? ill believe it when i see it
Apples to oranges my friend.... These multimillion dollar developers that you speak of produce far more complex games that have advanced A.I., tremendous amounts of physics, environmental interaction and so on. Those retail games are huge expansive collections of code. Most PSN games are small, simplistic games that are usually less then a gig of data. For example jonathan mak made his game everyday shooter, sony found him and his game, loved it and in turn bought it from him meaning he made instant profit and recieved instant recognition in the industry. Is xna a good idea? Yea it has the potential to be huge. But to think that sony isnt going to counter xna is a mistake. Sony themselves have obviously been aiming at the user generated content for a while by allowing ut3 mods and everyday shooter and of course the gdc announcement of their phyre engine. Its still more expensive then the xna dev tools but the beautiful thing about the phyre engine is its a pc based set of tools that allow you to "cook" your code into a ps3 supported format. In my opinion the biggest downfall of the xna development is that microsoft has a file size cap in place that means you have to code within certain perameters. I remember reading an interview with the team responsible for undertow and they themselves didnt like the size cap but it forced them to find a way to trim content that wasnt essential to the game. They did just fine considering that they are a professional dev team but think about how hard that will be for amateur developers....
Looking at the tools available, indie devs can do extremely well on both platforms. XBLA vs. PSN same deal, seek Sony/Microsoft developer approvel, buy the tools and off you go. The XNA will provide you with a quick access to developing on the 360, but given how the tool is constructed, you will not be able to push it to produce AAA type quality. Same goes for the indie developer on the PS3, given the complexity of the Cell's PPC and SPE setup you probable will not have time to invest in harnessing the potential from the SPE setup, again reduing the quality of titels you'll be able to deliver. From an engieering point of view, I'd much rather give the PS3 a spin, with a real dev kit and getting under the hood of the Cell's SPE part for some e.g. serious physics simulation would be pretty interesting. Btw. the Linux distro on the PS3 has readily awailable Cell libraries and dev tools (no access to RSX though), so you can take the Cell for a ride yourselves if you're up to it :-D Anyone interested in PS3 vs. 360 architecture can check out: http://ps3forums.com/showth...
That's definitely the most comprehensive explanation/comparison of the PS3 and 360 hardware, as well as why SIMD is so important (and why there's such a large emphasis on SPUs on Cell). I totally forgot about the Linux programming aspect though. This was probably the best part: "Other developers wouldn’t piss in their pants and would be confused at what SIMD actually means for them. They might be too stuck in their old ways to see how SIMD processors can drastically increase game performance and only consider the general purpose abilities of the SPEs scoffing at them for not having a cache. If they think want this type of computing power, they would think the PS3 is probably a piece of crap to program for and clearly measure Xbox360 to be superior or closely matched with its 3 cores and much easier to use developement tools."
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