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John Carmack still believes that a lot of next-gen games will run at 30fps

DSOGaming writes: "Back in May, we informed you about John Carmack's beliefs regarding next-generation consoles. As Carmack said back then, a lot of games that will be released on next-generation consoles will still run at 30fps and not at 60s. Today, Carmack reconfirmed those beliefs, despite the recent rumors about the hardware that will power both X720 and PS4."

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Snookies121318d ago

Let's hope not... 30 FPS will get the job done, but 50+ is where it's at. It's like choosing between a minivan and a Lamborghini. 30 frames will always give us a consistent playable game, but it looks SO much better when it's running at a smooth 55-60.

I think next gen consoles can handle doing that, if they can't, well... I'll just stick to PC gaming in that case for a majority of titles.

ardivt1318d ago

yeah but in commercials and screenshots you don't see the fps. people want shiny graphics, not many fps. sad fact.

MariaHelFutura1318d ago

Let's be honest, in most screenshots you're not seeing what the game actually looks like. You're more seeing what the developers wish it looked like.

ABizzel11317d ago

It's unfortunate if true, but some games are fine at 30fps. However I need my fighters, hack and slash, shooters, and action games running at 60fps.

RPG's, Open World, Sandbox, and other games would be fine at a solid 30fps considering the type of game.

SilentNegotiator1317d ago

Boohoo, 30fps is so terrible!
/s

DOMination-1317d ago

Of course as consoles get more powerful the graphics and in games will be better. That's always going to result in frame rate and/or resolution drops. Its always a balancing act and i think JC is right.

People will ve disappointed uf they think most games will ve 1080p60 next gen. But hopefully more will be able to

MikeMyers1317d ago

Sadly graphics sell more than performance. Developers will try and push the console graphically at the expense of smooth gameplay. I also expect more games in need up of updates and patches.

vulcanproject1317d ago (Edited 1317d ago )

The choice will lie with developers.

Developers will choose 30 frames because they have been more and more. That is now pretty much irreversible. Graphics are seen as more important than framerate.

Poor graphics are heavily criticised, tearing and framerate less so. Nobody even dare mention the fact Far Cry 3 on console has a wobbly framerate and teary visuals, because it is supposed to be quite good looking.

Nobody on here says yeah but, Game X graphics aren't as good, but at least its framerate and controls are smoother and it doesn't have screentear. No.

All you ever hear is: Game X has teh best grafix!

http://www.1up.com/news/lat...

Next gen will be like this gen, mostly 30FPS, or at least, trying to reach 30FPS in a lot of cases. 60FPS will die out more.

knowyourstuff1317d ago

Targeting higher FPS means you can't push as many polygons, can't run as advanced algorithms for AI, there will be less going on overall at 60FPS because your engine needs to process it all that fast. You will still see some games at 720p, others will be 30FPS, but will have more complexities that go beyond surface level things like FPS. It's all about trade offs, some games that are fast paced need the 60 FPS, others are slower paced and don't need it, as a developer you need to decide for yourself.

AsimLeonheart1317d ago

Carmack is probably right. It is up to the developers to choose if they want 720p or 1080p, 30 fps or 60 fps, best possible graphics or decent graphics. They will always have to trade off among these three areas. If they sacrifice 60 fps and 1080p then they can make the graphics even better by using the freed CPU and GPU power. That is why 60 fps and 1080p will not become a standard unless developers want them too.

starchild1317d ago

I'm a PC gamer and I really do love the responsiveness and increased clarity that the higher temporal resolution of 60fps imparts.

That said, I think a consistent frame-rate is even more important. To explain, I would take a rock solid 30fps with consistent frame-rendering times over an inconsistent 60fps frame-rate with variable frame rendering times.

For consoles, I think that developers would be wise to target a rock solid framerate, full v-sync, and high-quality anti-aliasing before they attempt to push other graphical elements.

I think most of us prefer stable, clear, high-fidelity image quality over graphics that may have more technical bells and whistles but that are ruined by choppiness, screen tearing, and image-destroying jaggies.

PinkFunk1317d ago

Well said starchild.

A locked framerate is very key. 30 FPS as long as it does not dip, results in a great experience. 60 FPS is of course preferable, but I do not mind at all if a developer chooses to push graphical capabilities whilst maintaining that steady framerate goodness.

Balance is important, and optimized coding is important. Screen tearing sucks and framerate dips suck.

BattleAxe1317d ago

He's probably referring to the WiiU.

DeadlyFire1317d ago (Edited 1317d ago )

30 fps is sad way to play a game. Any fps dip and instant screen lag.

I do believe alot of games will be at 30fps, but there will be many at 60 fps as well since some say this current level of graphics is more than sufficient way to build a game.

Any super powerful game engine though you will see 30 fps games. Unless somehow Microsoft and Sony aim for 4 Tflops or so and give us something that can almost play 4K games at 20 fps.

+ Show (9) more repliesLast reply 1317d ago
EddieNX 1318d ago (Edited 1318d ago )

PC elitist's are already in the next gen , last year...

If you want super powerfull graphics and nothing else , buy a Powerfull gaming PC...
If you want exclusives , Innovation and just generally want a console. Get a console..

@bozebo - I mean good exclusives and good innovation. Sony and Nintendo then....

bozebo1318d ago (Edited 1318d ago )

"exclusives , Innovation"
... PC then.

BitbyDeath1317d ago

Having so called 'nextgen' machines doesn't help when they have 'current gen' games.

kupomogli1317d ago

@BitbyDeath

That's just the Wii U.

landog1317d ago (Edited 1317d ago )

@kingofwiiu

"If you want exclusives , Innovation and just generally want a console. Get a console..."

If you want exclusives , Innovation and amazing graphics and butter smooth gameplay and don't want to miss amazing quality titles get a PC AND consoles....I know it's expensive, but think of it like this

Some guys I know...(I'm in my late 20's) spend $2000 a year on hunting or fishing or going on rock climbing trips, or going to disneyland..ect...ect...ect... .

personally, I go hiking for almost free at state parks when I'm feeling outdoorsey....I go on vacation every few years, not every year...and I get my killing fix in video games, not killing deer (not against it at all, hunting is kinda cool, thats how we used to get food)

BUT....I spend probably over $1000 a year on video games, I have a PS3, 360, psp, ds, wii, gba, ps2 and a BADASS (imo) pc (gtx680, 12gb ddr3, i7-2600k) and over 1000 (literally) video games for all those platforms

I freaking love gaming, I'm not going to miss an amazing title because of fanboyism or loyalty to some company who does not give a single crap about me...

next gen, I will buy a ps4, nextbox and wii u as soon as each respective platform has 5 or so games that i must have...gaming is my hobby, its what i love

my wife loves games as much as i do, same with my brother and both of my best freinds are hardcore into games...

so don't fool yourself into thinking one platform is superior to all the rest, they all have their merits and, its usually people speaking out of jelousy, hating on another system because they don't have it

cut down on the donuts, stop buying $6 coffees, get a second part time job, learn a trade and do side jobs, trade with your trusted friends

if your a gamer, be a gamer, play every good game you can!

-end rant :)

+ Show (1) more replyLast reply 1317d ago
tehpees31318d ago (Edited 1318d ago )

This goes on and on and still people want to believe. Your dreams of having true 1080p visuals with smooth 60 fps isn't going to happen.

If you aren't happy with the leap stick with PC. Microsoft and Sony's new systems won't be the type of leap we have had in the past. Eventually you need to put profit above power. It benefits nobody but Epic and Crytek to have super powerful systems. Microsoft and Sony themselves will be selling at losses on the hardware if its still kept on par to Epic/Crytek's "demands".

But they aren't in a business to serve a bunch of power lovers. They are in it to make money. The more this goes on the harder it will become to compete over power.

Awesome_Gamer1317d ago

Dude, it's a fact that next gen console games will run in native 1080p at 60FPS, believe me, I will bookmar this page just to show you that you were wrong next year.

dktxx21317d ago

It's not a fact at all. Modern games could run at 60fps at 720p if devs wanted. They choose better graphics and 30fps over lesser graphics and 60fps. That choice isn't going away next gen.

FanMan1318d ago

30 fps was pretty standard last gen it was this gen and it will be next gen. and mini van to lamborghini?? there is a difference but its not that drastic.when i swap between ps3and pc i dont notice fps at all.although i do notice resolution.that is something i want in new consoles. full hd

soundslike1318d ago

There was a time, you know, back in the PS2 days where games were criticized for framerate slowdown.

Slowdown from 60 to *30*.

How times have changed

kevnb1317d ago

most console games don't even maintain 30 fps.

mynameisEvil1317d ago

You don't notice the difference in FPS? Heh, trust me, if you had a copy of a game running at 30 right next to one running at 60, you'd notice a huge difference.

ATi_Elite1318d ago

Somebody tell John Carmack to just STFU!

instead of running your mouth and making silly guarantees how about you go make a BETTER GAME that doesn't run like crap on the PS3 and PC!

screen tear and horrible pop ins is a MESS at any frame rate just like in RAGE that trash of a game you made Carmack!

Tone1318d ago

You go and and make a better effort yourself then! ... Its obvious that you have no idea how hard it is to make a game!

Hydralysk1318d ago (Edited 1318d ago )

What? I don't know how to cook as well as restaurant chefs but I'm still perfectly valid in getting pissed if they serve me half cooked discount meat.

That's like saying you can't judge corrupt politicians unless you ARE a politician.

I can understand that it's hard to make a game, but when I put down $60 I expect them to have done their job, not whine about how hard it is. The fact that others can do much better with the same tech is obvious proof that it being 'hard' is no excuse for today's developers...

BanBrother1317d ago

"What? I don't know how to cook as well as restaurant chefs but I'm still perfectly valid in getting pissed if they serve me half cooked discount meat."

Are you sane? John Carmack didn't make Rage, he made the engine, Id Tech 5.

The game wasn't that bad, it was just too ambitous for current gen consoles. Like to see anyone else try and run something that good looking at 60FPS. I don't even like Rage, but I give credit where it is due.\

Plus, I'd take the word of a man who is highly regarded and respected among developers (you know, the people who KNOW what they are talking about) rather than an angry little teenage/immature fanboy.

God help me, if you say you aren't a teenager ANYMORE, I will facepalm myself, as no adult should be thinking so close-minded and idiotically.

The_Infected1317d ago

I hate 30fps! If games run at 30fps ill just move to a PC or get the steam box "if it runs most games at 60fps on it" I just like 60fps it's so smooth.

PhantomT14121317d ago

I always find this question if next-gen hardware will be able to run games at 60 fps irrelevant... Of course it is! Just like today's consoles can, but with a certain graphical quality. The framerate of a game (on console) is mostly a design choice, not a techincal one. For example, Naughty Dog choose to make a game that runs at 30 FPS but with good graphical effects and lots of stuffs happening on screen whereas Call of Duty choose the smoothness of 60 FPS over more beautiful graphics.
How powerful the next gen hardware may be, if it can run a game at 60 FPS with very good graphics, it still means that it will be able to sacrifice half of its frame-rate to pump out even more GFX.

Marcello1317d ago

The problem is the mainstream don't realize wat fps is, whenever i try to explain it to a console playing friend they just look at me all bewildered. Once i show them there like whoa !! how much is a PC then lol

avengers19781317d ago

I want at least 60 Fps running at 1080p... and I'll keep the same level of graphics we currently have.

neogeo1317d ago

Agreed, but I want a shadow or 2. gimmy some better lighting also. It does not have to be super ray traced but the shadows and lighting on current gen are really starting to look dated.

solid_warlord1317d ago

This is why CoD sells..it plays better than any other shooter. 20 Million plus every year since 2007.

Statix1317d ago (Edited 1317d ago )

I know many "COD haters" (me included) will disagree with your statement, but you are absolutely correct. Call of Duty has some of the most fluid and responsive gameplay/controls out there of any console FPS, and that is one of the major reasons why the general public finds it such an appealing game to play.

I myself far prefer Battlefield 3 overall as my shooter of choice, but when I play some BF3 right after a play a little bit of COD, it almost feels like I'm playing in slow motion, with micro-stuttering and screen tearing abound, along with less responsive controls.

solid_warlord1316d ago (Edited 1316d ago )

@Statix

CoD is much faster than BF3..its like comparing a turtle to a cheater. Im sure in PC, the graphics of BF3 is superier but on consoles, COD has better graphics and overall better shooter.

Run and Gun, teamdeath match type of game is what the masses prefer over a shooter that is objective and territory based that BF.

Hell BF3 is no longer in top 10 most played game of XBOX Live lol. COD is the fastest, most fluid game on consoles.

FlyingFoxy1317d ago

60fps is totally smooth, 30 is like slow motion.

That's why i bought a 27" 1920 x 1080 120hz screen earlier this year, as long as i buy the single best vid card every 2-3 years i will maintain a nice smooth framerate.

FPS really does matter, for the people who say it doesn't, try playing a first person shooter and limit the FPS to 30 then unrestrict it,big difference.I personally can't play any games when they run that slow. Just not enjoyable.

neogeo1317d ago

I'm a big killzone fan. I played COD online for about 200+ hours and then played killzone again a few months later and all I can say is. UNPLAYABLE!!

I'm not bashing it but it's very hard to go back after your eyes get used to 60fps for HUNDREDS of hours.

shutUpAndTakeMyMoney1317d ago (Edited 1317d ago )

You think the majority of console gamers care? I have a friend who loves cod and don't even know what a frame per second is. or even a frame.

A technology and quality expectation increase it seems to get harder for non upgrade-able entertainment systems.

If we want 1080p 60fps devs will have to be willing to not take advantage of extra power.

as console tend to get old and we have a standard of 1080p 60fps devs might want to go back to 30fps.

just saying it seems like they have to really plan more than ever how to use resources form day 1 and years to come. So if steambox is upgrade able then they will have that unique offering compared to other consoles.

I would be willing to buy a $250 - $300 console ever 5 years if it meant keeping up with technology.

QuantumWake1317d ago

720p/60FPS or 1080p/30FPS.

^ That's how I see it next-gen.

ambientFLIER1317d ago

Or you could truly try to push out the best possible graphics and do 720p/30fps

QuantumWake1317d ago

@ambientFLIER

In my opinion it just starts with the type of games we are talking about. With sports games, I suspect 1080p60. Fast paced FPS games, 720p60. 720p30 for games like say Uncharted or Gears where they are more known for they high quality characters, environments, and intricate texture detail.

konnerbllb1317d ago

Imagine if they gave you the option between 720p 60fps or 1080p 30fps via a dashboard setting. I can dream right?

showtimefolks1317d ago (Edited 1317d ago )

i respect this man and all he has done but he has talked more than actually making a great come back into FPS market. this ain't old school days time to get with the program

Rage was one of the biggest disappointments, and the ending felt like they ran out of budget and said ok that's it

on to the point, i believe both next xbox and ps will do full 1080P 60FPS, it also comes down to a developer willing to take advantage of the systems.

what do i know i am just a gamer and he is a gaming legend but sony and ms have to look at future more than present, if sony and ms should learn from xbox360 and ps3 its that in a longer than usual gens, the consoles need to be a little better future proof/

so its not what ps3 and xbox720 can do in fall 2013 but what and how they will perform in 2017-2018. people complain about ps3 and xbox360 because its way old tech so time for an update. and if both companies are panning for another 6-8 years cycle than prepare better

DwightOwen1317d ago

"Next gen" games will continue to run at 1280x720 resolution @ 30 frames-per-second. Bet on it.

charted1317d ago

@Snookies12 #1

"I think next gen consoles can handle doing that, if they can't"

Well if they cant, then why should we even consider going to next gen? Next gen should not only be about graphics but also game play mechanics.

current gen XBOX and PS are suited to 30fps to some 60fps.

Gamer19821317d ago

Games will still run at 30FPS on consoles because of consoles specs. They won't be as high as what most people think purely to lower initial costs and get plenty of sales day 1. Also look at consoles now there stuck at 30fps because they are lagging behind and nex-gen consoles may use better tech at launch but by the time devs squeeze every bit of power out of them games will have improved and moved on in terms of power needed. You cannot win..

It's why PC will always be superior in that way, You can get 60FPS+ from day 1 :). As Pcs are evolving every day where as consoles get updated once every few years. It could be steams console which bridges this gap.

Gamer19821317d ago

Games will still run at 30FPS on consoles because of consoles specs. They won't be as high as what most people think purely to lower initial costs and get plenty of sales day 1. Also look at consoles now there stuck at 30fps because they are lagging behind and nex-gen consoles may use better tech at launch but by the time devs squeeze every bit of power out of them games will have improved and moved on in terms of power needed. You cannot win..

It's why PC will always be superior in that way, You can get 60FPS+ from day 1 :). As Pcs are evolving every day where as consoles get updated once every few years. It could be steams console which bridges this gap.

Also think Cormacks hinting here at a lack of power in nex gen consoles as he has no doubt had one and been developing for it for a while now.

Blaze9291317d ago

I don't really think we have an economy where the next-gen systems will be a giant leap last this gen compared to last. I think games still might be 30 FPS too. Let's just hope we can get 1080p standard at least.

Statix1317d ago

I think 720p will be the more likely standard. Many games this generation couldn't even do full 720p; they do a sub-HD resolution. So if next-generation consoles could maintain even a 720p standard for every game, that would be a leap and accomplishment in and of itself. Yes, it's sad, I know.

+ Show (16) more repliesLast reply 1316d ago
chukamachine1318d ago

Probably because his game ran at 60fps, with awful textures.

There were some good things in rage.

But you need to make a modern DOOM game.

Also would love to see a quake5 game, with the movement of quake3.

Mp would be epic.

ApexHell1318d ago

textures were fine when tweaked.

PhantomT14121317d ago

It was just horrible when the patch wasn't applied but then it was okay (it still had the texture looking awful just after loadings, like Unreal Engine games).

EddieNX 1318d ago TrollingShowReplies(1)
Tontus1318d ago

I feel that 30fps is perfectly fine for most games. I'd much rather have prettier games at a solid 30fps than a game with static environments and poor textures at 60fps like RAGE or any Call of Duty.

The only games that need 60fps are racing simulators, fighters and online shooters. I think they should make it so that console shooters run at 30fps with better visuals for the single player campaign and 60fps with more basic visuals online where twitch responsive controls are more essential and visuals don't matter as much.

Kennytaur1318d ago

Next gen consoles will run games that look like current games at 60, but I'm expecting games that look next gen to run at 30.

We shouldn't expect witchcraft.